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I think one of the problems with warzone was that they had to make so many miniatures lines, that were very similar. Take for example, Capital. They had light troops, heavy troops, free marines, sea lions, scorpions, sunset strikers and martian banshees just to name a few. That is a hell of a lot of lines to produce and keep track of, and that's just the infantry, for one army! These were all pretty much the same miniatures wise, they basically just had some minor but distinct differences, mostly helmet and equipment swaps, sometimes different shoulderpads and grieves. Which was fine as troops from each faction should have a vary similar aesthetic.

They did try to make them more different in 3rd ed but most of those were fail! The new light troops and rangers did not even feel like capitol troops, dusters and ranger hats just did not fit with the rest of the Capitol aesthetic.

Instead of making a bunch of individual sculpts just make a good multipose plastic kit or two with all the options and gribbles. It would save tons of development and production costs, plus you have economy of scale working for you. You also have the whole line launched basically at once instead of people having to wait years for each factions 10 different sets of infantry.

Even GW realized it was too expensive and wasteful to do models using that style. Its why they went from 6 different imperial guard armies down to just 2. With warzone, its even worse because each player is probably only going to buy one, possibly two boxes of each kind of infantry squad for their faction. However if you make 10 man kits with gubbins for all the options you can now sell 6 or 7 of the same kit. One kit, one box, one production line, one line of inventory for basic infantry kits for each faction....Its a huge savings. Sell it for $20 or $25.

This is essentially how I made my Bauhaus army. I didn't like most of the miniatures produced for the Bauhaus line, plus the ones I did like were very hard to find. So I used the Ducal militia and just green stuffed and head swapped them all. I used necron heads for Venusian rangers and green stuffed the grieves. I used Void Junkers heads, various bits and green stuff for the Jaegers and blitzers. I used the Spacewolf wolfhead for the wolf head dragoons. I used the ducal militia sergeant heads for strike commandos. I used the ducal milita heavy head for Hussars.

Is it perfect, no, but for mix matched components it looks pretty good. If they were all designed for the kit it would have worked fine. And if the original Ducal militia kit was truly multi pose, I'm sure I could have done a lot more. So a purpose built kit could do this job pretty well. It really only takes some minor swaps to make the different infantry units.

Save the restic for character models and beasties.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

They did try to make them more different in 3rd ed but most of those were fail! The new light troops and rangers did not even feel like capitol troops, dusters and ranger hats just did not fit with the rest of the Capitol aesthetic.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Most everyone I know thought the dusters and ranger hats were a HUGE improvement over the baseball caps and football helmets that made up the previous aesthetic.

 warboss wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

They did try to make them more different in 3rd ed but most of those were fail! The new light troops and rangers did not even feel like capitol troops, dusters and ranger hats just did not fit with the rest of the Capitol aesthetic.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Most everyone I know thought the dusters and ranger hats were a HUGE improvement over the baseball caps and football helmets that made up the previous aesthetic.

The rangers were just bad addition to the line, as they did not replace the football helmets, this did and it was better than both.



Which were not great.

Although I still think these were the best



The ranger gear was just as bad as the football helmets if not worse. At least the football helmets were just the helmets, the whole uniforms on the duster/ rangers was terrible. They did not match with the free marines, sea lions, heavy troopers or really any of the other Capitol stuff. Capitol had a more modern military feel. The dusters and ranger hats looked just as ridiculous as the football helmets and were an attempt to bring in that ww1 aesthetic that some of the other armies had, but it worked for the others, Capitol not so much.

And please make martian banshees that look like this

and not this


Most of the 3rd ed remakes were really bad. With the exception of the Bauhaus dragoons and etolis mortant and a few others.

Guys, I just wanted to say that although Andrew brings up some interesting points on models regarding producing them to be played in the systems of others. We want to produce models for warzone primarily and hence have a warzone game too. Consider this, everyone can buy cheap models from garage manufacturers at a fraction of the cost they can from the people that designed the game (and invested significantly in it)! Taking this to the extreme why even buy models, use 1 cent coins or tokens, that will save lots of money. If we as a gaming community want just 1 big company and a lot of ripoff companies then Andrews approach is right. But if you want rules and a game system to enjoy from us, the big guys or any of the small companies cherish them (obviously assuming you feel you are getting value for money)

Prodos doesn't want to be a rip off company, instead a company that makes amazing models of amazing quality that have the Warzone feel but for the 21st century. They will be priced appropriately (again you can probably buy knock of Jack Daniels if you want) but again not to rip the customer off (where's the business sense in that). If people want to use tokens and pirated rules I'm sure they will and good luck to them. As gamers ourselves, Prodos would rather play great games with awesome miniatures

Lots more to come, we hope you enjoy them all! We are!

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Most of the 3rd ed remakes were really bad. With the exception of the Bauhaus dragoons and etolis mortant and a few others.

I think you mean 2nd ed. re-makes, as 3rd ed was done by Excelsior and they only put out a handful of models.

Though on the larger point of what you said, I think you and I will have to agree to disagree .

Is it not just a little early to be complaining about the material these will be made of? Especially since I don't believe it's actually been mentioned yet?

Also, white Hard Plastic is indeed awesome, people should probably stop pointing to Dreamforge as their example all of the time. As amazing as Mark's achievement is, he had the backing, support and infrastructure of Wargames Factory. This (which will apparently be surprising news to some people) is actually a little more complex than just asking them to make your models for you, please, kthx bai.

I'm keen to see the finished product. And when I do, if I think it's subpar or poor value, I'll be more than happy to share my opinion. I'm just not getting too concerned (or bent out of shape) until I see something a lot more substantial than a few CG renders.

Prodos wrote:
Guys, I just wanted to say that although Andrew brings up some interesting points on models regarding producing them to be played in the systems of others. We want to produce models for warzone primarily and hence have a warzone game too. Consider this, everyone can buy cheap models from garage manufacturers at a fraction of the cost they can from the people that designed the game (and invested significantly in it)! Taking this to the extreme why even buy models, use 1 cent coins or tokens, that will save lots of money. If we as a gaming community want just 1 big company and a lot of ripoff companies then Andrews approach is right. But if you want rules and a game system to enjoy from us, the big guys or any of the small companies cherish them (obviously assuming you feel you are getting value for money)

Prodos doesn't want to be a rip off company, instead a company that makes amazing models of amazing quality that have the Warzone feel but for the 21st century. They will be priced appropriately (again you can probably buy knock of Jack Daniels if you want) but again not to rip the customer off (where's the business sense in that). If people want to use tokens and pirated rules I'm sure they will and good luck to them. As gamers ourselves, Prodos would rather play great games with awesome miniatures

Lots more to come, we hope you enjoy them all! We are!

I was about to write something along these lines. I cannot agree more with what you write.

I am excited with the resurrection of WZ, because I loved WZ and want a chance to enjoy the game again. So, I want minis that work for WZ and NOT some cheap generic sci-fi troops to use in 40k. I have not seen anyone demanding from PP minis that are compatible with other sci-fi systems. Why should PRODOS Games do this for WZ, a game with a background and history richer than anything in the marker apart from 40k?

Personally, I got really interested when I saw these news, but by now my enthusiasm has grown to levels difficult to control I mean WZ is coming back, the guys that release it update us daily and are eager to respond promptly to the feedback from the community, not to mention amazing sculpts so far at prices that -for me- look like a steal. I mean, is there a reason not to be excited!?

@Prodos: Can we expect to see any time soon some heavy/power-armoured infantry?

You may have seen [bits of] them already on this forum or the facebook like page or forum group!!!!

Prodos wrote:
You may have seen [bits of] them already on this forum or the facebook like page or forum group!!!!

I have indeed, but I was hoping for some renders instead of just bits and concept art. What if I ask nicely? Please?

praetor24 wrote:

Prodos wrote:
You may have seen [bits of] them already on this forum or the facebook like page or forum group!!!!

I have indeed, but I was hoping for some renders instead of just bits and concept art. What if I ask nicely? Please?

Soon!

Prodos wrote:

praetor24 wrote:

Prodos wrote:
You may have seen [bits of] them already on this forum or the facebook like page or forum group!!!!

I have indeed, but I was hoping for some renders instead of just bits and concept art. What if I ask nicely? Please?

Soon!

Soon can't be soon enough

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Are we really going to look at GW practices as the way companies should model themselves?

Yes, because pricing your product in relation to projected sales volume is something that companies do and for good reasons. We could argue that GW is taking the mick with the actual prices but the idea is not ridiculous in the slightest.

don't rly understand, WZ is coming back, and its business not charity...


If i got my new WZ full army for 100 USD that is still 2-3 times cheaper than 1 GW army!

Just give them chance, let see what the price is going to be, how many models you will need for nice army...

Guys we have to support them... I dont want them to get WZ-cursed ! I think if WZ die this time it will die forever.!

If they can even pull off even half of what they had going before the purge, That will be a step in the right direction.

We're not even talking about some of the great stuff they had years ahead of it's time...

As to the price issue, There is no issue if you can pull off a halfway decent miniatures multiparted plastic box set without a 50 buck pricetag for 5.

If you can't, well....

It's not about it being a business. Its about not being clueless and actually wanting players and agreeable product to sell. Those two running the troll machine are missing the point.

Those figures were ahead of thier time. The beuty of the game was the sheer veriety of figures they had available. Weapons, vehicles, equipment, books....

It only took GW 15-18 years to figure it out.

I'm honestly interested in what you have to offer. Hope to see something I like and I hope to see something worth my time.

 god.ra wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Not really a fan of those. I always thought cybertonics basic soldiers would just look like tech advanced humans with a few bionics and advanced weaponry, these are just too much, and I hate the shirtless thing, it doesn't make sense to me.

another troll?

they are replacing this ones:

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/cybertronic-mega-corporation/tg9508pb-warzone-cybertronic-chasseurs-4-figures/

... IP rights? Rings the bell?

Why do you keep calling everyone a troll just because they don't agree with the general consensus? To express ones opinion isn't trolling just because it differs from others?

I know how the chasseur-minis used to look like (and i hated TG for it) but I'm not so sure those gorillas TG made back in the 90's were what chasseurs was meant to look like, just like the "Imperial Hedgehog Necromower" didn't quite look like the concept art (which was really cool in a mad max kind of way, not the mini though). Chasseurs could, given the fluff, have many different appearances but I do believe they were meant to wear body armor apart from their "build in" armor and I believe that would look cooler as well (why would the megacorporation with least manpower send soldiers out in the field without proper protection). Why not make them more like the shock troopers, those were awesome?

 Andrew1975 wrote:

If you're going to compare costs, do not compare resin to injection molded plastic.

Games Workshop charges $20 for a finecast resin miniature. If these are $4 for resin miniatures, then they are indeed significantly cheaper than Games Workshop.

Again just because GW finecast is stupid expensive, that does not justify anything. Mantic works in restic and doesn't charge nearly as much. I just got Sedition wars, and got some nice restic models for about $1 a piece.
I'm not a fan of resin or restic really. The technology is there to create detailed affordable, muliti part, multi pose plastic. Use it!

Mantic's restic models range from $2.50 apiece (wraiths) to $3.50 (gore riders) to $6 (Dreadball MVP's). Restic is cheaper to manufacture than resin.

Scibor resin miniatures are about $9 for an infantry model. Games workshop resin miniatures are about $20 for an infantry model. Mierce Miniatures are about $16 for an infantry model.

Metal/pewter miniatures can be anywhere from $5 apiece to $15 or more (Avatars of War, some Reaper figures).

Sedition Wars metal miniature are actually on average $15 for a human sized model.

So $4 to $5 for a resin infantry model is quite good.

Injection plastic model can certainly be very cheap - pennies worth of material. Then the company can charge whatever they want (ranging from Wargames Factory at $2 for a sprue to GW at $42.50 for a sprue). But it involves a much greater investment for the manufacture of steel molds. Don't assume every company is Dreamforge - Dreamforge ran a successful Kickstarter that only paid for a small portion and now WGF are part-owners of the company and Mark has a very large debt to be paid off with each sale of a Dreamforge kit.

So we've got a new company producing Warzone with an unknown quantity of capital - do they dump $10k to make a sprue of 5 Chasseurs that will probably have an MSRP of $14.99 or just do 3D printed resin and sell 'em for $20-$25?

Right now Warzone will be having another another rebirth with some hardcore fans clamoring for it but mostly an untested market.

This is actually one of the only good reasons I've heard for Kickstarting something... see if the marketplace actually wants it. Not a preorder, but see what level of interest there would be to perhaps actually make plastic kits of Legionairres and Chasseurs, etc.

Just to clarify the editions of Warzone:

1st: produced by Heartbreaker Hobbies in the early/mid 90s

2nd: Produced by Target Games in the late 90s, this edition had the big box with 80 plastic troops and many new resculpts of 1st edition models

3rd: Excelsior re-released the old models and a new rulebook titled Ultimate Warzone this is in the mid 2000s

4th: Prodos completely starting from scratch for models and releasing the game as Warzone Resurrection in 2013

 scipio.au wrote:
Is it not just a little early to be complaining about the material these will be made of? Especially since I don't believe it's actually been mentioned yet?

Quite agreed. No matter how many times the WZ dudes post, they're still keeping the material under wraps so it could be anything really

The miniatures are going to have to be completely re-done for this game to have any chance of success in today's market.

By all means, base them off of the earlier designs - but they can't look much like them, please!

"Inspired by", yes!

I can't comment on the ruleset, or how the game played though...

I'm very excited for the possibility of playing a new version of Warzone.

This was the first TTG I ever played, and I have a substantial collection of Imperial and Bauhaus miniatures (both "1st" and "2nd" edition).

The renders shown so far look fantastic. I cannot stress how much I hope the renders for Imperial and Bauhaus retain the "WW1 in Space" aesthetic.

I really want WZ to work. Don't take it the wrong way. But looking at the cybertronic and undead legionnaires, I'm underwhelmed. Both renders are of very stiff looking miniatures, they convey no action or movement and are all just variations of the same guy, they are all just standing there. Now hopefully these are just design mock ups, not what the actual produced models will look like.

There is so much competition right now, there is even a new Rouge trooper, platoon sized game coming out soon! Looking at what I have seen I can only see some really hardcore WZ fans picking these up. There has got to be a real reason for not just old WZ fans to pick these up. You have to give people a reason to buy these, currently I don't see it at any price point, much less $4 a model.

That being said the renders do look very detailed. But there is just not enough variety in them. The legionnaires look to have 2 sets of legs that are exactly the same except for boots and bandages, but they are all the same exact pose, which is the I'm just standing here pose. Same with the cybertronic guys, there seams to be 2 legs one with straight legs and one with legs slightly apart, the rest is just them with different heads and holding guns in different completely non threatening ways.

So please please please, show me something that gives me hope that this is actually going to work.

Infinity has miniatures at $10+ a model and they have no problem selling miniatures... Even with a really complicated rule set and unclear/poorly mapped rule book.

Even with an increased price people still port the miniatures into other games. Why? Because they think it looks cool. Just because miniatures aren't $1 or less a piece doesn't mean a game will flop.

You want cheap miniatures you already know there is a market for that and you know exactly where to go to get them. The renders are definite improvements over the old miniatures.

For those of you interested we have a like page and group on Facebook. Search on FB Warzone resurrection)
For those that aren't into FB don't worry we'll still post on here as well!

Prodos wrote:
For those of you interested we have a like page and group on Facebook. Search on FB Warzone resurrection)
For those that aren't into FB don't worry we'll still post on here as well!

Thanks for this assurance!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
[quote=warboss 504794 5256538 d318060d281803b48be7fcc01870d84c.jpg
And please make martian banshees that look like this

Most of the 3rd ed remakes were really bad. With the exception of the Bauhaus dragoons and etolis mortant and a few others.

Amen to both!

1st edition Banshees were OK, but to get some faithful to the artwork would be great indeed!

(And yes I am still proud of my Banshees!!!)

cerealkiller195 wrote:
Infinity has miniatures at $10+ a model and they have no problem selling miniatures... Even with a really complicated rule set and unclear/poorly mapped rule book.

Even with an increased price people still port the miniatures into other games. Why? Because they think it looks cool. Just because miniatures aren't $1 or less a piece doesn't mean a game will flop.

You want cheap miniatures you already know there is a market for that and you know exactly where to go to get them. The renders are definite improvements over the old miniatures.

Sure, but look at the miniatures for Infinity or Mercs, they are pretty amazing, these are not. Unless you want an army of guys just kind of standing around. They can charge whatever they want, but there has to be some kind of justification for $4 or $10 models. I'm just not seeing it here.

Are they improvements? They are certainly more detailed and in proportion ill give them that, but the poses (the single pose may be more appropriate) are terrible and all almost exactly the same. I mean Protos listed what options the kits will come with, I can see all those options in the renders, yet all the miniatures are in the same erect standing there pose. It would be one thing if at least the one pose was interesting, but its not. If your going to just make one pose, at least make it interesting, these guys look like union workers on a break! I wouldn't pay anything for what I've seen so far because there are better miniatures out there at $2 and at $4 there are miniatures that blow these away.

The only cool factor I'm seeing here is that they are WZ, and that is not enough.

AAN wrote

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Hmm, $4.80-ish per fig for proper multi-part plastic that one can actually pose? In a skirmish game? That's damn reasonable. Certainly cheap enough for me to pick up a new box or twelve.

Agreed. The fact that its skirmish level will allow me to get into it. Wife and I are finishing 40k armies, and thats enough $$ in itself, so another army scale game would be no good. However theres always room for another skirmish game.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Sure, but look at the miniatures for Infinity or Mercs, they are pretty amazing, these are not. Unless you want an army of guys just kind of standing around. They can charge whatever they want, but there has to be some kind of justification for $4 or $10 models. I'm just not seeing it here.

I think, after 500 posts with basically the same content, based on 2 preview pics, we all got your point. No need to repeat it in another 500 posts.

The more I think about it, the less excited I get. Not because of anything Prodos is doing, but because of the track record of Warzone. Since the game is produced based on a license, even if the game is sucessful, the owner of the IP (Paradox, if memory serves correct) can just yank the plug and move in whatever direction they want (depending on the way contracts are set up). I think this is what happened when they moved from 1st to 2nd edition.

I hope the rules are great and I hope the models are great too, but I'll refrain from excitement as long as I can in hopes that Prodos can make something good and not have the rug pulled out from under them.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Sure, but look at the miniatures for Infinity or Mercs, they are pretty amazing, these are not. Unless you want an army of guys just kind of standing around. They can charge whatever they want, but there has to be some kind of justification for $4 or $10 models. I'm just not seeing it here.

I think, after 500 posts with basically the same content, based on 2 preview pics, we all got your point. No need to repeat it in another 500 posts.

+1