Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
And I can't see this kind of bike being so great in all terrains, so dinosaurs would be the default option in those cases, obviously.

Yeah, these bikes (the actual ones) were originally meant to be used in rough terrain with a lot of inclines such as bombed-out trench-ridden terrain. Jungle-fighting would still be infantry and dinos (if they decide to double up on mounted units).

But just so they aren't overloading the mounted hussar angle, I'd love to see the close-combat dino-rider unit become a special forces unit since they would be a little more specialized than motorized troops. Maybe even fold them in to one of the house Guard Orders. Order of the Dragon might be fun. Either that or take the Jaegers from 2nd Edition and fold them together with the Mounted Hussars to form a single unit of guys with funky crested helmets riding dinosaurs.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
And I can't see this kind of bike being so great in all terrains, so dinosaurs would be the default option in those cases, obviously.

Yeah, these bikes (the actual ones) were originally meant to be used in rough terrain with a lot of inclines such as bombed-out trench-ridden terrain. Jungle-fighting would still be infantry and dinos (if they decide to double up on mounted units).

But just so they aren't overloading the mounted hussar angle, I'd love to see the close-combat dino-rider unit become a special forces unit since they would be a little more specialized than motorized troops. Maybe even fold them in to one of the house Guard Orders. Order of the Dragon might be fun. Either that or take the Jaegers from 2nd Edition and fold them together with the Mounted Hussars to form a single unit of guys with funky crested helmets riding dinosaurs.

We'll have them, hopefully in the near future :]

That should make tread-heads and dino-lovers alike happy.

I must say that I prefered the Dino riders more, tho Bauhaus are the thread heads I'm not digging this model at all for them, perhaps in the Sons of Rasputin but not in Bauhaus.

M.

Nah, the design it is based off of was originally French (just like the Grizzly, actually) so it makes more sense in Bauhaus. Riding animals make more sense for SoR if anything, I mean, they have Cossacks.

Either way, by my reading these aren't bumping Dinos, but supplementing them. I love 'em as is and am definitely going to be grabbing some before the KS is out (assuming we hit £90k). So please Prodos, for the love of all that is holy, keep the tractor-bike look on these!

I do have to agree with the guy who sujested a front wheel for turning, and keeping the track as the rear wheel might look better. I would also make more sence to people who don't know the obscure IRL inspiration for this bike.

To me it looks like the IRL bike needed a mile and a half just to turn around, do to how little the front "wheel" could pivot. XD

Like some people on the kickstarter said. It looks like at 1st glance that it can only go foreword and reverse.

They have lots of vehicles that have multiple trend sections IRL. Just chop the tread so the front chunk turns separate from the rest....there you go

Eh, I don't see a reason to appease "realism buffs" on this one when we can simply link to the actual vehicle that existed and tell 'em it can turn just fine. It's like everyone who bitched about the mono-bike in Infinity. It is unique, interesting and based on a real-world design.

Who care's if it's obscure, it's freaking cool and backed up by sound engineering. And remember, this thing wasn't a speed demon, so its turning radius is probably better than you think. When your overland top speed is 25MPH you don't need much give to get a tight turn. Same basic principle as the A-10 Warthog, because it is so bloody slow, it can usually make a tighter and quicker turn than much faster planes.

But I would hate to see such an awesome vehicle reference lost to appease misplaced calls for realism (especially when reality backs up the weird-arse design). Just like it was easy to disprove how unrealistic the Infinity mono-bike was (had a Youtube video featuring an almost identical bike that moved just fine), this one is easy to back up with a simple link to a google image search.

I'm sorry if I have to call BS on your anology.

The angle at witch you turn the front "wheel" dictates alot about your turning radius on a motercycle. Because of how that front tract works, it can not create a very shape angle for turning. A normal motorcycle going the same speed will turn sharper.

Also my point isn't so much realism, but relateabilitiy. At least alot of people saw Monowheels in the news and stuff, and I can look up videos of the thing in action. I've never seen that monotracked-cycle in my life, untill today. I can't even find a youtube video showing how this thing drove, only written descriptions. The only tracked cycles I've even seen before this had a wheel for steering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5I8HGGjokA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=TXKYFM93buY&NR=1

(Edit: Looking more into that vheclie, I found out that wheel actually wasn't for steering. lol So I will admit I fethed that up.)

It actually turns just like a motorcycle would. The drive belt isn't as solid a tread as you might think. The whole point is that it is flexible to allow for turning, but that it has more contact with the ground to improve traction.

A quick search shows the Hyanide and Baal currently have concept bikes that work on the same principle. The treads on these guys are hard plastic and linked by kevlar rope. And it sounds like their turning radius is just fine (and there top speed is much higher than the old ones).

And my analogy is more along the lines of "it corners well enough for its expected speeds" rather than anything deeper. I think assuming it takes a lot to corner that sucker is bordering a bit on hyperbole. It wont be doing a tight skid-turn like a motorcycle, but that it the price it pays for being able to cross rough terrain like a mofo. So while a motorcycle going down to its expected speeds may be able to turn a bit better (though probably not as much as you would think), the motorcycle wouldn't be doing great on half of the expected terrains the tracked bike can do, especially if it wanted to be as sturdy as that thing looks.

I would just hate to see a design revamped in the name of realism when it exists and actually does what it is meant to do. Whether people are used to it or not should have little to do with that. Not every player needs to like every single mini, and there are plenty around that seem to enjoy this design. Seems like appealing to realism or relative obscurity of a design is an odd reason not to do something. Especially when there is a definite faction of backers who are looking for new and novel additions. Give me another Lawmaster, crotch-rocket, harley or even a half-track trike and I will yawn and move along. I would rather have something I haven't seen a million times (for reference I am a Dark Angels player with a decent contingent of Ravenwing, I do not want another wheeled bike).

Today we introduce the Black Widow, the terror inducing Heavy Vehicle from the Dark legion

This model will be dispatched in August, but is purchasable at the special Kick Starter price of £35.50 now.

The Black Widow will be approximately five inches long.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection

I had such high hopes for this model. But this looks ridiculous. It looks like a large spider from the earth with two gatling guns. I dont receive any Dark Legion vibs. I was hoping for a big tank filled with dark symmetry :(

With the caveat that I don't know a whole lot about the original background of the game, I think the spider-tank-thing is pretty cool.

It's not a spider-tank short one pair of legs for that

M.

Prodos wrote:
Today we introduce the Black Widow, the terror inducing Heavy Vehicle from the Dark legion

This model will be dispatched in August, but is purchasable at the special Kick Starter price of £35.50 now.

The Black Widow will be approximately five inches long.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection

@Prodos: The Black Widow is nice. Is it still WIP? I am asking because I think that the miniguns look a bit odd the way they are attached on its head. Would you consider a head design closer to the old model? Or maybe a second head option?

And I think that the model needs to be a bit tech-ed up. It looks too organic.

If you look at all the previous minis that Prodos have shown us they have indeed been able to develop a more realistic and dark DL. So i hope they would go away from the "ridiculous" minis like the Black Widdow, I really do not think that this spider will sell in any large quantities.

They had more good options such as, Hellhound, Ironclad or the Deathworms.

Not a fan of the bikers but the historic background makes sense so I will leave it alone. Are we doing tyrannids now? I hate the spider thing. It looks too much like a spider. Needs more biotech, bigger guns etc to make it look more than a spider with gun fangs. Nothing on that model says Dark Legion to me. Besides with all the cool large DL model references out there, why an obscure one that a lot of people wont get. How about a Mercurian Maculator or Praetorrian Behemoth?

 Octopussy wrote:
If you look at all the previous minis that Prodos have shown us they have indeed been able to develop a more realistic and dark DL. So i hope they would go away from the "ridiculous" minis like the Black Widdow, I really do not think that this spider will sell in any large quantities.

They had more good options such as, Hellhound, Ironclad or the Deathworms.

To be hones I'd choose The Widow.IMHO it fits more into Dark Legion aesthetic than Hellhound, Ironclad or the Deathworms.

I like Black Widow as it is, spot on for me, especially if you compare it to old one with ... tracks! LOL!
And big Hope (on my Xmas wish Mr. Santa ) to hit £140k! for Mishima.

Definitely starting to trend a bit more "Silly" now...

...starting to lean towards not pledging!

 Lockark wrote:
I do have to agree with the guy who sujested a front wheel for turning, and keeping the track as the rear wheel might look better. I would also make more sence to people who don't know the obscure IRL inspiration for this bike.

To me it looks like the IRL bike needed a mile and a half just to turn around, do to how little the front "wheel" could pivot. XD

Like some people on the kickstarter said. It looks like at 1st glance that it can only go foreword and reverse.

you mean something like this?


nah, the full tracked bike looks cooler

Definitely not sold on the Black Widow. It looks very un-Dark Legion like. Still, it's only a WIP at the moment, isn't it?

I'll withhold judgement until they come out with the confirmed render.

I agree with the dislike for the Black Widow, I understand it was in the old game but the look of it just does not say menacing or awesome model. It is however, the first model I do not like from Prodos, so it's release will not influence my pledge level. I will simply ignore this model and act like it does not exist.

I honestly do not really have any suggestions on how to make it better, perhaps make it more mechanical than organic?

 Alpharius wrote:
Definitely starting to trend a bit more "Silly" now...

...starting to lean towards not pledging!

eheh that makes me funny

"Silly" word vs Sci-Fi Steampunk background with Daemons, Aliens, Habitable Solar System, Dino-Riders, Steam powered spaceships, does not work for some reason

Must admit the one track bikes sort of matching Bauhaus WW1/WW2 feel I had about them, well lets not judge by art, as they pumping out nice renders/models (from cr**y arts in some cases), looking at feedbacks we can assume that some changes are likely to happened.

Spider, well, I like it, but I think they said that is just WIP so we might see a bit updated version soon.

EDIT!!!!


HEHEEH

Doesnt look like a spider to me, more of a deranged ant (3 body parts, 3 pairs of legs)

god.ra wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Definitely starting to trend a bit more "Silly" now...

...starting to lean towards not pledging!

"Silly" word vs Sci-Fi Steampunk background with Daemons, Aliens, Habitable Solar System, Dino-Riders, Steam powered spaceships, does not work for some reason

It works quite well, actually.

If you stick within a certain set of rules and standards, and then start to deviate outside of them, well, it get to be Silly.

They started out great, updating the miniatures to move away from some of the inherent goofiness of the line and avoiding a lot of the outright farcical elements.

If they start to drift back into that... well, I don't think they'll end up doing as well as they could have done.

But you're right - we'll see what things look like in terms of actual models.

But again, they won't show up for a bit, if at all during this Kickstarter, so that might be a bit late for many...

 Alpharius wrote:

god.ra wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Definitely starting to trend a bit more "Silly" now...

...starting to lean towards not pledging!

"Silly" word vs Sci-Fi Steampunk background with Daemons, Aliens, Habitable Solar System, Dino-Riders, Steam powered spaceships, does not work for some reason

It works quite well, actually.

If you stick within a certain set of rules and standards, and then start to deviate outside of them, well, it get to be Silly.

They started out great, updating the miniatures to move away from some of the inherent goofiness of the line and avoiding a lot of the outright farcical elements.

If they start to drift back into that... well, I don't think they'll end up doing as well as they could have done.

But you're right - we'll see what things look like in terms of actual models.

But again, they won't show up for a bit, if at all during this Kickstarter, so that might be a bit late for many...

Agreed! 20 more days, I believe in Prodos!

btw something interesting they've posted on KS page:



And the sweet spot is where I am

Really glad I dropped from The Cartel to The Five. I would of though they would of sweetened up the Cartel pledge by now and given a lot more incentive for people to pledge higher.

Strange kickstarter but I am very glad it is happening.

FOrgeworld did some Warzone model ???

Could someone explain this to me please, as FW is a GW company.

streetsamurai wrote:
FOrgeworld did some Warzone model ???

Could someone explain this to me please, as FW is a GW company.

The first "Forge World" company was Forge World Models, a California based company (along with Armorcast and Epicast) that had licenses from GW to produce upscaled Epic 40K vehicles in resin. When Forge World Models' license contract with GW ended, they started doing licensed resin vehicle models for WarZone

Pics of their Bauhaus Grizzly, Bauhaus Cobra and Dark Legion Black Widow are here:

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Resin_Vehicles_%26_Titans

Tim

Alpharius wrote:Definitely starting to trend a bit more "Silly" now...

...starting to lean towards not pledging!

Oh well. Different strokes, yadda yadda. But seriously, every attempt to reboot Warzone/Mutant Chronicles that has come at it with the angle of "this is too silly" has kind of been a flop (and each time they have defined what they believed was too silly differently). The movie certainly seemed to be Mutant Chronicles with all the "silliness" removed, and despite great casting it blew in every way, shape and form. And we shouldn't even mention the vapourware RPG that seemed to have the exact same idea of removing all of the "silly" elements of the setting, that decision drew a lot of hate and it never even saw the light of day.

So sorry, but I want this game to be over the top, if I want level-headed and realistic them I'll be doing 15mm skirmishes with Tomorrow's War/Stargrunt II. Mutant Chronicles/Warzone is as close to 2000AD/Heavy Metal the Miniature Wargame as you are likely to see. Silly needs to be in its DNA somewhere (though what is silly and what isn't is obviously a deeply personal thing). If that turns some people off, then so be it. But at least it is being true to its core structure. And considering the popularity of games like 40k, Malifaux, Infinity and every other game with "silly" elements, I daresay they don't lose much by going down that path.

Because in the end, Mutant Chronicles is a Weird WW1/2 Dieselpunk Pulp Sci-fi setting that takes place IN SPAAAACE against inter-dimensional hordes of zombies and demons. Removing the silly element from that scales you back to... Well a WW1/2 game.

streetsamurai wrote:FOrgeworld did some Warzone model ???

Could someone explain this to me please, as FW is a GW company.

Forge World used to be an independent company. GW bought them and turned them in to their in-house resin guys.