Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hordini wrote:For the most part, the only people who claim that a gun is a magical defense that will guarantee your safety are anti-gun people who are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the arguments of pro-gun people because they find it more entertaining than having an actual discussion about firearms.

YOU made a claim to that effect. You did it right here.

It was the same thread where you said you didn't like gun owners being painted with such a grossly large brush.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:For the most part, the only people who claim that a gun is a magical defense that will guarantee your safety are anti-gun people who are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the arguments of pro-gun people because they find it more entertaining than having an actual discussion about firearms.

YOU made a claim to that effect. You did it right here.

It was the same thread where you said you didn't like gun owners being painted with such a grossly large brush.

I read that link of yours. Didn't see anything about magic defense. Did see him stating that an ex-police officer armed with a gun would have nailed the guy who was just a few feet away, attacking him.

Wow just read about this, it hasn't had any real coverage in the UK press. That is so shocking with those 2 women that it would almost be funny if it wasn't so horrific! Was the police car crewed by officers Mulroney and Hightower?

azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:For the most part, the only people who claim that a gun is a magical defense that will guarantee your safety are anti-gun people who are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the arguments of pro-gun people because they find it more entertaining than having an actual discussion about firearms.

YOU made a claim to that effect. You did it right here.

Yeah, that's nothing close to what I actually wrote.

azazel the cat wrote:
It was the same thread where you said you didn't like gun owners being painted with such a grossly large brush.

I don't like the implication that somebody who defends his- or herself with a gun has a "sort of idiotic rage." What does that have to do with this thread?

djones520 wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:For the most part, the only people who claim that a gun is a magical defense that will guarantee your safety are anti-gun people who are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the arguments of pro-gun people because they find it more entertaining than having an actual discussion about firearms.

YOU made a claim to that effect. You did it right here.

It was the same thread where you said you didn't like gun owners being painted with such a grossly large brush.

I read that link of yours. Didn't see anything about magic defense. Did see him stating that an ex-police officer armed with a gun would have nailed the guy who was just a few feet away, attacking him.

Exactly. Thank you. I didn't really think I was making a claim that was that outlandish.

 whembly wrote:
Exactly... I've read his manifesto... holy.gak.he's.off.his.rockers.

And I blame the whole premise of "why is he doing this" that is seeped in our culture. He's doing this for attention... the best thing to do is capture him quietly and throw the book at him without sensationalizing the whole thing.

I'm not sure there's any sensationalising to be done in this case. I mean, it's straight up a sensational story. Downplay it as much as you can and it still reads like a movie script.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
No. You won't hear much of it because he doesn't fit the narrative.

See this:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/when-crazed-shooters-cant-be-linked-to-the-tea-party-media-displays-admirable-restraint/

bs. Byron Williams was called to pull over for speeding by a police car, leading to a pursuit and a gunfight. Two officers were wounded and Williams was taken into custody. This was an incredibly lucky turn of events, as Williams had collected his guns, put on body armour, and was on his way to the Tides Foundation, believing his shooting spree there would inspire a revolution. The Tides Foundation is an obscure left wing not-for-profit that's only claim to fame is being at the centre of Beck's craziest conspiracy theories. Williams was, of course, an avid viewer of Beck.

That didn't hit the media because Williams didn't manage to complete his shooting spree, because of the incredibly good luck of police trying to pull him over for an entirely unrelated matter. In the story you quoted, Corkins failed to complete his massacre because, very luckily, he was bad at it (managing only to wound one guard before being wrestled to the ground).

And that's why these stories don't make major headlines. Because luck or incompetence means they don't get their bodycount. Not because of some grand liberal media conspiracy, but because of simple fact about humans - we are far more interested in sprees where people die, than ones where they don't.

Hordini wrote:What does that have to do with this thread?

Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Hordini wrote:For the most part, the only people who claim that a gun is a magical defense that will guarantee your safety are anti-gun people who are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the arguments of pro-gun people because they find it more entertaining than having an actual discussion about firearms.

For someone who gets so sad about gun owners being painted with broad brushstrokes, your own brush seems pretty broad itself.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:What does that have to do with this thread?

Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

My hypocrisy regarding what, exactly? That I don't like people implying that people who defend themselves have "idiotic rage" and that I wrote that people who write that guns are a "magical defense" either don't understand or are trying to ridicule pro-gun arguments?

 azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:For the most part, the only people who claim that a gun is a magical defense that will guarantee your safety are anti-gun people who are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the arguments of pro-gun people because they find it more entertaining than having an actual discussion about firearms.

For someone who gets so sad about gun owners being painted with broad brushstrokes, your own brush seems pretty broad itself.

Azazel to be frank you're making yourself look ridiculous.

This whole thing is going way off topic, guys.

So, do you think he's hiding in the snow-covered hills? Or do you think he had another car waiting where he torched his truck and is hiding in Mexico right now?

If he's as clever and highly skilled as he makes himself out to be, he's in Mexico. Judging by his manifesto though, he's crazy and most likely not as clever and skilled as he tries to sound, in which case he's probably hiding in the mountains (or dead).

 Hordini wrote:
If he's as clever and highly skilled as he makes himself out to be, he's in Mexico. Judging by his manifesto though, he's crazy and most likely not as clever and skilled as he tries to sound, in which case he's probably hiding in the mountains (or dead).

I don't think it's about being clever, skilled or crazy. It's about what he wants, and what he wants ain't in Mexico.

 Breotan wrote:
This whole thing is going way off topic, guys.

Indeed.

If we could stick to/return to the topic at hand, the ins and outs of X/Y/Z and who said what we can leave well alone for now.

Thanks.

 sebster wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
If he's as clever and highly skilled as he makes himself out to be, he's in Mexico. Judging by his manifesto though, he's crazy and most likely not as clever and skilled as he tries to sound, in which case he's probably hiding in the mountains (or dead).

I don't think it's about being clever, skilled or crazy. It's about what he wants, and what he wants ain't in Mexico.

I suppose that might be true. If he wanted to get away, Mexico would be the place to be. I guess that would be a reasonable thought process, but he's proved himself to not be a particularly reasonable guy. In that case, if we assume his intentions are really just what it says in his manifesto (that is, to wreak havoc on the LAPD) then he probably isn't far off and would probably be in or near the mountains.

However, they think that he did try to steal a boat in order to make a run across the border but was unsuccessful, so we know he's attempted to leave the country at least once. That kind of muddles things as far as determining what his actual intentions are.

 Breotan wrote:
This whole thing is going way off topic, guys.

So, do you think he's hiding in the snow-covered hills? Or do you think he had another car waiting where he torched his truck and is hiding in Mexico right now?

Plan B, but not Mexico.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
This whole thing is going way off topic, guys.

So, do you think he's hiding in the snow-covered hills? Or do you think he had another car waiting where he torched his truck and is hiding in Mexico right now?

Plan B, but not Mexico.

This, in fact, he's probably taking over stuntman duties for LL Cool J on NCIS: LA, hiding in plain sight if you would.

If this man is as competent as he believes he is, I would almost assuredly bet that he had a getaway car, probably a different make, different model, different color, probably even a different condition. If he had a nice shiny, blue/grey truck, then I'd get away in a beat up old caddy.

Looks like the LAPD is on the job of saving the city streets from the menace of anyone in a pickup.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way.

Seconds later, Perdue's attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire; none of the bullets struck Perdue.

His pickup, police later explained, matched the description of the one belonging to Christopher Jordan Dorner — the ex-cop who has evaded authorities after allegedly killing three and wounding two more. But the pickups were different makes and colors. And Perdue looks nothing like Dorner: He's several inches shorter and about a hundred pounds lighter. And Perdue is white; Dorner is black.

Yeah! That'll teach all those asian women and surfer-dudes!
If his goal was to make the LAPD look like idiots, I'd say he's succeeded.

 deathholydeath wrote:
Yeah! That'll teach all those asian women and surfer-dudes!
If his goal was to make the LAPD look like idiots, I'd say he's succeeded.

I believe if the LAPD look like idiots, it might give credence to his claims.

Did anyone catch the story about the LAPD looking into his case again? They say it's so they can remain transparent, but we all know that they want to cover their arses on this. If they did feth up his case, and he was screwed over, the guy goes from 1 crazy loon with several guns to someone that might have 1 leg to stand on... though that won't matter with how he reacted.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 deathholydeath wrote:
Yeah! That'll teach all those asian women and surfer-dudes!
If his goal was to make the LAPD look like idiots, I'd say he's succeeded.

I believe if the LAPD look like idiots, it might give credence to his claims.

Did anyone catch the story about the LAPD looking into his case again? They say it's so they can remain transparent, but we all know that they want to cover their arses on this. If they did feth up his case, and he was screwed over, the guy goes from 1 crazy loon with several guns to someone that might have 1 leg to stand on... though that won't matter with how he reacted.

That's my problem here... it's legitimizing his actions.

Do we have the makings of a modern day "depression era" folk hero in this story?

 Easy E wrote:
Do we have the makings of a modern day "depression era" folk hero in this story?

No. Anyone who thinks that needs a swift kick to the gonads. This guys was calling the victims' families and taunting them.

 whembly wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 deathholydeath wrote:
Yeah! That'll teach all those asian women and surfer-dudes!
If his goal was to make the LAPD look like idiots, I'd say he's succeeded.

I believe if the LAPD look like idiots, it might give credence to his claims.

Did anyone catch the story about the LAPD looking into his case again? They say it's so they can remain transparent, but we all know that they want to cover their arses on this. If they did feth up his case, and he was screwed over, the guy goes from 1 crazy loon with several guns to someone that might have 1 leg to stand on... though that won't matter with how he reacted.

That's my problem here... it's legitimizing his actions.

What immediately springs to mind is that it's to confuse and perhaps even partially placate him while they continue the hunt; if some delusional hope for redemption gets introduced into his head, it may buy time before he attacks again, or at least leave him conflicted or confused,and so more prone to making an error they could exploit.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 deathholydeath wrote:
Yeah! That'll teach all those asian women and surfer-dudes!
If his goal was to make the LAPD look like idiots, I'd say he's succeeded.

I believe if the LAPD look like idiots, it might give credence to his claims.

Did anyone catch the story about the LAPD looking into his case again? They say it's so they can remain transparent, but we all know that they want to cover their arses on this. If they did feth up his case, and he was screwed over, the guy goes from 1 crazy loon with several guns to someone that might have 1 leg to stand on... though that won't matter with how he reacted.

That's my problem here... it's legitimizing his actions.

What immediately springs to mind is that it's to confuse and perhaps even partially placate him while they continue the hunt; if some delusional hope for redemption gets introduced into his head, it may buy time before he attacks again, or at least leave him conflicted or confused,and so more prone to making an error they could exploit.

I don't buy that at all...

Charlie Freaking Sheen has a video about this guy...

You don't engage whackos like this... you hunt them down like dogs.

Remember, even in our country even the whackos deserve due process of law. The problem is that 1 of 2 things are likely to happen 1) He gets cornered and takes his own life, or 2) He gets shot regardless of how he is captured, simply because he's a cop killer, and most of them probably want revenge. I know that I probably would if I were in the LAPD's seat.

Think of hostage situations: one guy with a megaphone (or regular phone, as the case may be) engages the lunatic, and tries to distract them and undermine their will to carry out their threats/objectives, while a dozen snipers take up positions and a tactical team sneaks around back, so to speak. He's a dead man regardless of what he does next, but the less willing/able to carry out his intended rampage the better.

Who says its going to be a hostage situation? Even if you're just using it as an example, nothing this guy has done has even remotely suggested he's willing to take a hostage, or let the cops use such tactics.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Remember, even in our country even the whackos deserve due process of law. The problem is that 1 of 2 things are likely to happen 1) He gets cornered and takes his own life, or 2) He gets shot regardless of how he is captured, simply because he's a cop killer, and most of them probably want revenge. I know that I probably would if I were in the LAPD's seat.

Yeah I know... I'm being melodramatic. I didn't mean to advocate assassination.

Just get the fether and throw the book at him.

 whembly wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Remember, even in our country even the whackos deserve due process of law. The problem is that 1 of 2 things are likely to happen 1) He gets cornered and takes his own life, or 2) He gets shot regardless of how he is captured, simply because he's a cop killer, and most of them probably want revenge. I know that I probably would if I were in the LAPD's seat.

Yeah I know... I'm being melodramatic. I didn't mean to advocate assassination.

Just get the fether and throw the book at him.

Well we're more likely to throw a drone at him since he is one of the few people on US soil to get the green light to be targeted by drones.

http://news.yahoo.com/christopher-dorner-drones-death-due-process-075500100.html

 Alfndrate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Remember, even in our country even the whackos deserve due process of law. The problem is that 1 of 2 things are likely to happen 1) He gets cornered and takes his own life, or 2) He gets shot regardless of how he is captured, simply because he's a cop killer, and most of them probably want revenge. I know that I probably would if I were in the LAPD's seat.

Yeah I know... I'm being melodramatic. I didn't mean to advocate assassination.

Just get the fether and throw the book at him.

Well we're more likely to throw a drone at him since he is one of the few people on US soil to get the green light to be targeted by drones.

http://news.yahoo.com/christopher-dorner-drones-death-due-process-075500100.html

Oh god no... not even for him.

And folks think we're paranoid. (see the reaction from my thread last night )

If he was going to take a Hostage he probably already would have done so.

He probably also has enough experience to know a Hostage probably wouldn't have done him any good.