Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so recently I've seen many blood angels related threads that have generally stated they are poor.

As a new BA player currently building my army this is discouraging! I have guard and necrons and mostly play for fun, and I started BA because I love the background and I love the models... Which I think is how most should choose their armies.

So I wanted to start a thread that focused on the positive, and how they can cover their weaknesses instead of just disregarding them because ofit.

For example if assault marines aren't great now for obvious reasons, why cant they put to a different use of more pinpoint strikes with mobility and leave objective holding to cheaper scouts?

If we dont have troops with dakka, what about bolter DC... missing plasma or heavy then devastators?

Flying +2 saves, the dreads, fast tanks ... all that stuff. As I say I'm new to BA, I'm just looking to start a more positive thread for those wanting to make BA work.

So what do you do dakka??

Thanks!

They are by no means a "bad" army. No marine choice is. If you're looking for a top tier codex to win countless tournaments with, look elsewhere(IG, Necrons, GK), but if you're looking for a (IMO) fun codex that can still put up a helluva fight and win most of the time in the hands of a good commander, BA will fit that role just fine.

As for the good in the codex...

Stormravens - Arguably the best overall flyer in the game. AV12 all around, being a flyer, the ability to take a weapon loadout that is very effective against any target, and PotMS makes it quite effective. It's a pretty big point sink, but brings firepower and durability like no other unit in the codex. It's anti-flyer, anti-tank, anti-infantry, anti-your opponent. Oh, and it can transport stuff. (Something I don't recommend most of the time). I also recommend an ADL + Comms relay if you take more than 1. It gives you cover, and ensures your reserves almost always arrive turn 2. Also take Hurricane Bolters. Always.

Discounted transports - While razorspam isn't nearly as good as it used to be, in certain lists it can be effective. About 165 points will get you a razorback with a TL Plasma gun and Las Cannon with an assault squad carrying a meltagun. It's also fast so you can move the full 12" and fire everything. Pew pew.

Furioso Dreads - While we don't have the best dakka-dreads, we have some of the best CC dreads of any army. AV13 makes it immune to krak grenades, and decently hearty against AT shooting. Blood Talons will rip through any squad that doesn't have a 2+ save. My personal favorite is the Frag Cannon + Heavy Flamer in a drop pod. 2 S6 rending templates and 1 S5 AP4 flamer template is going to roast some IG blobs. I once took out an entire 5 chaos spawn squad the turn it dropped.

Sanguinary Priests - If utilized and positioned well, a Sanguinary priest can make it points back and then some with FNP saves for your army. Just make sure you try and cover more than 1 squad with them, or they won't be worth it most of the time.

Brother Corbulo - Congratulations, your squad is now immune to bullets! My personal favorite IC of the codex. He is a monster in this edition if used correctly. 2 wounds, 3+ save, and 2+ FNP save means hes not going anywhere any time soon. If you happen to take a strength 8+ shot (thus negating his FNP), just pass it back to a squad member behind him on a 2+ LoS. An effective combo I run often is Sternguard with 2-3 combi-melta/meltaguns with him in a pod. Drop down turn 1, explode a tank (First Blood), then laugh while the enemy pours shots into Brother Corbulo. It will take far more than his 105 points of shooting worth to dislodge him from their backfield.


All that being said, I still believe they are a solid codex in 6th. No, they can't be played like they used to be in 5th, and are not the powerhouses they were as well, but they are far from bad.

How is AV13 immune to melta, its S8 + 2d6

Army wide feel no pain is very useful, cheap devestators, death company, baal preds, all good units

Bolter DC are pretty solid, a lot of people poo-poo DC as being expensive. This is simply wrong.

At 20pts a pop you get better than Veteran stats compared to other Marine armies (aside from Wolf Guard, but we all know SWs are cheaters )

They also pack Rage, Relentless, FNP, and Furious Charge and Fearless which is crazy for their points. They'll struggle against high armor on their own, but as an elite infantry choice they are stellar. Just think of them as an elite choice that doesn't take up an elite slot.

I'd suggest a Drop pod for them, or if you have the points a LR, I shy away from putting them in a SR, because the SR is better as a dedicated gun platform, not as a transport.

SR doesn't need any explaining, it's awesome.

I am also thinking there is something to the Tactical squads in this ed, shooting got a boost, and a priest gives you a bunch of FNP jerks for cheap. They're way better at double-duty than normal tactical marines since they will last longer on an objective due to FNP and Fearless and are more powerful in an assault with FC.

Im also a big fan of Dreadnoughts in general and BA have the biggest best selection of them. If I was going to do a Dreadnought list I'd say 2x Furioso, 2x DC and 2x Standard dreads with 2x TLAC's in one list for some hilarious times (comes to 750 btw, so in an 1850 list you'd have great AV12/13 saturation), add 140 for pods for the CC ones.

Their honor guard squad is still as awesome as it ever was. Give them 4x Flamers and 4x Melta and pod them or give them jump packs for some brutal anti armor and anti infantry. I've also run up against 2x hand flamers, it's a buttload of S3 right there since each can fire twice.

In addition to cheap razorsl, I think using min sized squads of Assault marines to get cheap LR's is decent as well. You can get 3 squads of them plus 3 LR's for 945. I know DA do it better with their BoD, but I'd personally go Godhammer with them rock a bunch of S9 around the board and spit out a mean little assault unit.

Cheap Devastators are also good, they get all their options for less than C:SM's and I think they pull their weight pretty well.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
OH also, Libbies have Prescience which is pretty great for army buffing.

Assault squads are still great for dropping some melta or flamers right where your opponent doesn't want them early on. Add Dante for an extra melta shot on a 2+ and no chance of scatter... expensive, but not like he's useless after that.

Death Company are still my game-changer unit. I run them with Jump Packs and a Chaplain, so they're horrifically expensive, but when I have won games it's been my DC that have won it for me by ripping the heart out of my opponent's best units on the charge.

Mephiston got even better with his inherent 2+ save...! Ok, so he can't take 2+ down reliably himself, but you'll rarely find him stuck for other targets. He was already crazy strong but just got even better with 6th.

Check out my BA army list thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/480366.page

It might give you some ideas.

 More Dakka wrote:
At 20pts a pop you get better than Veteran stats compared to other Marine armies (aside from Wolf Guard, but we all know SWs are cheaters )

What are you talking about? For +2pts DC get +1WS, Rage, FC and FNP...

The BA are a bad army in 6th edition, but bad in this edition is not like being bad in 2nd edition. It's all a matter of degree. Think of it like baseball. The worst teams still win 40% of the time. 2nd edition was like football; the worst armies would be 1-15 in a 16 game series. Eldar had insta-death warp spiders, etc.

The single biggest problem with the BA is probably eliteness. They could pull off their low model count shenanigans in 5th due to their access to init 5 and FNP being 4+. And hiding in metal bawkses till they assaulted. All of this is gone.

Don't just look at the BA codex. Look at what they have to go up against in 6th edition. It *is* a bad list in comparison to other lists in 6th. There's no way around this; no way to rationalize it away. If you like the fluff great, but don't listen to those who think there are ways to scheme out of the hole. There really aren't, especially against competitive lists from the top codicies.

I will admit most of my BA wins in 6th have been due to bad generalship from my opponents and being able to capitalize on their mistakes. They are my first army and I will always love them, but their power waxes and wanes with each edition. I am more excited to use my IG army now, especially since I invested in 3 vendettas, 2 manticores and two basilisks over Christmas.

Playing a less competative army will make you a better 40k player as you have to think out of the box more often.

I have beat nearly every codex, but not at a good rate. Against many lists, I am forced to use my fast vehicles to literally run away to have a chance. While it is certainly legal for me to do this, it's stupid that is what the BA have to resort to to have a chance against lists like...... SW.

Yeah you would think space vampires would at least be on par with space werewolves.

Well, they're not. In fact, they were only on par in 3rd and 5th editions. The SW are just the biggest insult. Any init 4 list now is going to cause far more damage than before. As I have written before, it's death of a 100 little nerfs. Individually not huge, but in totality huge. One could say that BA nerfs have more synergy than the actual BA now.

adam304 wrote:
I have guard and necrons and mostly play for fun, and I started BA because I love the background and I love the models. ?. Which I think is how most should choose their armies.

Sounds like you're playing Blood Angels for the right reasons to me.

That's certainly a lot more true since they ended Ard Boyz.

BA are fun to play and my favorite army. The much smarter players above have made some great points, and I won two of my last three games with my BA, one against SM in a tournament one against DA in a competetive 2k game. I guess the bottom line is this: play for fun because its fun.

talljosh85 wrote:
I guess the bottom line is this: play for fun because its fun.

This should be first and foremost!

 tuiman wrote:
How is AV13 immune to melta, its S8 + 2d6

Army wide feel no pain is very useful, cheap devestators, death company, baal preds, all good units

I meant to type Krak. Oops! Fixed now.

 More Dakka wrote:

Their honor guard squad is still as awesome as it ever was. Give them 4x Flamers and 4x Melta and pod them or give them jump packs for some brutal anti armor and anti infantry. I've also run up against 2x hand flamers, it's a buttload of S3 right there since each can fire twice.

I've never thought of 2x hand flamers on each. That would be pretty hilarious, and awesome to model. "What's that? 70 S3 hits on your guard?" I'm gonna need to buy more dice!

Well again, as I said there's football bad and baseball bad. It's still fun to root for the Cubs because they may still sweep a rival even if they can't win it all. It's no fun to root for say, the Browns.

Or like rooting for the islanders? Lol

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

talljosh85 wrote:
I guess the bottom line is this: play for fun because its fun.

This should be first and foremost!

Mhmm. Depends what your opponents use too - if they're not running uber-competitive lists in a casual setting, then you should do fine.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Or like rooting for the islanders? Lol

At least BA aren't Toronto Maple Leafs bad.

Also, bikes are decently good with BA, although 'nilla marines or DA allied in might do it better. They're T5 and have acess to special weapons. A 3 man team with 2 plasmaguns is 120 and can provide a mobile firebase for death co, helping the lack of special weapons.

If you ally in a SM detachment with a bike captain and two squads with plasmaguns, you can use the scoring bikes for objectives and drop in some DC. Cheap scouts can sit on backfield objectives. Not sure of other stuff that would synergize well. Maybe take BA bikes with a priest for FNP and a captain w/ stormshield to put in front and not die would be a good unit.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

talljosh85 wrote:
I guess the bottom line is this: play for fun because its fun.

This should be first and foremost!

Mhmm. Depends what your opponents use too - if they're not running uber-competitive lists in a casual setting, then you should do fine.

I absolutely agree with this, but I hate the fact that I have to rely on my opponent choosing not to crush me like a bug to have a chance to win. I feel your pain 5th edition Necrons! The shoe is on the other foot now!

Storm ravens are really strong in this edition. They are expensive, but extremely strong.

The fact that they are AV 12 means they are extremely hard to shoot out of the sky. Ceramite plating is there to add insult to injury for when the occasional MG manages to score a 6 on the 'to hit'.
They also are the only flyer with a rear armor of 12. This means, unlike other flyers, they don't worry about showing their rear end to units.

They can pack a good amount of firepower. An assault cannon / MM combo is extremely strong. Adding to this, you can fire 2 bloodstrike missles a turn, which are STR 8, AP1 weapons. AP1 means any penetrating hit has a 50% to destroy your target!
This gives your stormraven an excellent chance at destroying enemy helldrakes, vendettas, or other flyers. While its not as good on ground targets, adding hurricane bolters helps with that task as well.

Another features of the stormraven is the ability to transport troops. In games where objectives are key, you can use your stormravens to drop troops onto 3 different objectives late game. This is a strong advantage as it allows you to contest/objective grab easily.

If I were to run a BA list, this is what I would bring today. Yes, I would ally in space wolves and run a 'twilight list' with vampires and werewolves. I would do this because they synargize so darn well...
HQ
Librarian
Rune Priest

Troops
10 Grey Hunters w/dual PGs + Wolf Banner
10 Grey Hunters w/dual PGs + Wolf Banner
5 BA Tactical Marines (on stormraven)
5 BA Tactical Marines (on stormraven)

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/TL AC and HB sponsons
Baal Predator w/TL AC and HB sponsons
Baal Predator w/TL AC and HB sponsons

Heavy Support
StormRaven Gunship w/TL MM, TL AC, 4 bloodstrike missiles, hurricane bolters
StormRaven Gunship w/TL MM, TL AC, 4 bloodstrike missiles, hurricane bolters
StormRaven Gunship w/TL MM, TL AC, 4 bloodstrike missiles, hurricane bolters

I think its telling that you have practically no actual BA marines in the list. I'm not blaming you, I'm just sayin. That list needs a comm link I think since it has triple Stormravens.

Well, personally I think that TAC squads are among the worst troops in the game (did we not have that discussion earlier?)
That's why I took a minimal amount of BA TAC units. They are so bad that its better to minimize what you would need to take in order to be successful.

I took the units that I think perform very well in today's meta.
Baal predators are extremely hard to dislodge with AV13 (though I might trade some out for long fangs/BA devs).
Storm ravens provide great anti-flyer, anti-tank and some decent anti-hoard.
Wolves with librarians provide good foot presense for mid-board contesting.

I think that it is a good list. I just think it's kinda pathetic that in a few days, the space wolves can probably just get their own stormravens and dispense with the dead weight BA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also note this list has problems if they jack the price of the stormraven.

I'm curious to see if they rebalance the Vendetta in the next few days... and whether or not Wolves get a flyer at all.

I'm curious too, but curse GW for making my chapter into Space Wolf cast offs, as demonstrated by labmouse's list.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm curious too, but curse GW for making my chapter into Space Wolf cast offs, as demonstrated by labmouse's list.

Man, 3 units in an army does not make it cast offs

Seriously, any C:SM, BA, BT, DA list I make today has SW allies. Two squads of grey hunters are just that good.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Or like rooting for the islanders? Lol

i am from long island and resent that