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Now as we all know there is a great deal of 3rd party models and upgrade kits for GW models. Now GW seems to have varying policies on this depending on where you go. In a store in Cheltenham, for example, they didn't allow any 3rd party stuff at all. Up at Warhammer World, however, I asked one of the staff, and he said that as long as the models are mostly GW that it's fine to use a few 3rd party bits, so for example a Rhino with a few bits and pieces from a Tamiya tank would be fine, whilst a Tamiya tank that had just been 40K-ified a bit probably wouldn't be allowed, and even expressed interest in Chapterhouse stuff. (Obviously we aren't counting things like bits of toys used in kitbashes).

So I ask you my fellow Dakkaites, if there had to be a set limit on how much 3rd party stuff was allowed per model in a GW store, what would it be?

I would say as long as the model is 60% GW parts then it should be fine.

Also, may I make it clear we're talking about GW stores here. Obviously it's dickish behaviour if your friend refuses to let you bring a model to his house because it isn't GW, and non-GW stores have their own rules.

Don't ask. Don't tell.

If you're stupid enough to tell GW staff that you've got 3rd party bits on your models then I don't know what to say.

Seriously.

Don't.

Mention.

Anything.

If asked, say you sculpted them.

Their stores, their rules

so if you want to play there and they say 100% only that's it

but as Grimtuff says just don't tell anybody they're non gw bits, say they're old OP rogue trader era bits, greenstuff ontop of a GW skeleton or whatever

blabbing about they being chapterhouse, or whatever to other patrons will probably get you kicked out

How many Whoppers should you be able to bring to McDonalds to eat in their restaurant?

How much of my Lunch should I be able to bring from home and sit in Chili's bar and eat lunch?

How much Starbucks coffee or 7-11 Big Gulp should I be able to bring in to a movie theater?

Once in a while, these places look the other way. If I bought food next door but my friend was buying food agt McDonalds, they may not mind.

If I was drinking at the bar and it was slow, they may not mind me eating my own sandwich.

If I was buying popcorn and I had a starbucks cup, they may not mind I didn't buy their horrible 7 dollar coffee.

There is a difference between being a CLEAR CUSTOMER and them not making an issue to accommodate a customer and someone who kicks in the front door of the GW store and yells "Screw you stupid people, my whole army is 3rd party models for half the cost! Watch me beat all of you with my models!"

My local GW allows the 50% rule, which means that my World War I-themed Guard is allowed there.

Dont ask dont tell, but dont lie... Just say you used what you had.

Rule of cool rules high at the tournaments I go to. I play orks and well yeah I do a good bit of kitbashing, scratch building, the whole nine yards. I have plenty of Kromlech ork bits in my army and no one has ever said ANYTHING. Soon Ill have entire models from Kromlech that Ill run and I doubt anyone will say anything. Granted I also have an award winning painted army so its easier to look past 3rd party bitz when everything is painted and looks good on the field.

As Grimtuff said, why bring it up? Won't they don't know won't hurt them. If it's not an obvious conversion, why even point it out?

It has mostly been understood that a head swap and weapon changes are safe. IIRC, and if someone can verify please, the directions in the tournament package were that the model had to be 80% GW, but that has been some time ago.

There is no reason why they should allow anything other than their own models.

My army is mostly GW. I did use my Pirates Boyz at Warhammer World this week. I doubt anyone would even notice twelve 3rd party Ork heads amongst a 3000pt Ork army. Nevertheless I wasn't going to mention it and I had 100 other Boyz with me so it really wouldn't have bothered me if I had been asked not to use them.

You never rat on yourself or your partners in crime. As most have said on this topic: keep quiet and don't say anything unless you're asked by staff members or other players. Thats when you make something up.


You'll never make it in the "3rd Party Mafia" if you snitch on yourself.

I agree with the idea of their store, their rules - you're not paying for the service so they can attach whatever terms they like, whether they're fair or unjust. If you do have 3rd party bits, don't pipe up, if you do you're an idiot.

Pretty much agreed on "They can make the call for their stores, but I don't have to bring it up".

Also, the discussion brings to mind a small, old fashioned scale. One side for GW parts, the other for "other". "Whoops, looks like 59% non-GW. We'll have to melt that down for you."

I don't really play in a GW these days (and can't now right anyway? I'm not sure if I read somewhere that the policies had changed).

However, back in the day I've used entire non-GW units in amongst other stuff and never been called out on it. Once I believe even with the area manager in the store, who actually came over and complemented me on my army, despite there not being a single miniature that was 100% official

They key is, as others have said above me, not to make a deal about it. Or to try and play in a FLGS or club if you do start getting any grief (which then neatly side-steps the whole issue).

Push the limits! Confrontation at gaming stores is ALWAYS amusing.

As long as it isn't obvious like using a Gundam suit model as a Tau Battlesuit, you should be okay. Just don't be an arse or even mention your 3rd party bits and you'll likely be okay.

The only time i saw the store manager say something about a non-GW mini on the table was because the female dark elf sorceress on a horse was half nude...

hellpato wrote:
The only time i saw the store manager say something about a non-GW mini on the table was because the female dark elf sorceress on a horse was half nude...

Which is funny cuz http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440048a&prodId=prod1610024a

I recall that the model had to start as a GW model and then it was up to you from there. I would discourage against running mantic models at GW as guardsmen it is frowned upon. But in tournaments I would stand by starting the model as a GW model.

Don't ask, don't tell. Most of the staff wouldn't be able to tell an RT model apart from a 3rd party one. Especially if it's an early 90s alt-company slottabased one.

I've used 100% non-GW models in a GW (admittedly, that was still 3rd ed days - last time I played in a GW store) and when the redshirt pushed for details, I said they were GW - old RT "imperial Army" stuff (my guard). They were actually Warzone figures. It was an outright falsehood. He didn't know the difference.

Some people would think me a bad person for doing this but I'm fine with it. I think of it as not shattering someone's delusions.

My personal limit: If you bought the mini, it's legal. even if you leave it at home in the box. But that would be if I ran GW, which I clearly don't.

GW can set their own rules, though, for their stores/events.

Their store, their rules.

My personal opinion is that the moment GW stopped supporting any tournaments they lost all credibility in "requiring" GW only models for any sort of event. Want to play an entire ork army made of warpath and kromlech? awesome.

The way I look at it, its my miniature, I'll do what I want with it. I don't game at GW, so this is never a problem. At the end of the day, its the TO/store owner's discretion, but I've never seen anyone but GW have a problem with conversions using 3rd party bitz/miniatures.

The whole don't ask, don't tell idea is pretty much the way to go, however don't lie about what they are if you get approached. Most stores I game at are pretty laid back, including the two gw's I play at. The manager of both stores does not care sol long as you aren't running your mouth about the models, bits, and your not bashing on gw models that you modified with these bits. In the end it's a basic system, don't be an idiot, or an ass, and you won't end up getting screwed.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Don't ask. Don't tell.

If you're stupid enough to tell GW staff that you've got 3rd party bits on your models then I don't know what to say.

Seriously.

Don't.

Mention.

Anything.

If asked, say you sculpted them.

Yup. My local GW don't ask why I've never bought a codex, and I don't tell them.

If I used a CHS model, but everything else was GW, how much % can glue, LGS, gravel and paint take up?

If you play at a GW store, you'll most likely have bought other stuff there.
Rulebooks, codices, scenery for home, etc.

Their rules, yeah, but if it gets new customers through the door, they have them where they want them anyway.

I am of the don't ask don't tell on 3rd party conversions.

However, I think the 60% GW parts or mainly scratch built, should prevail on GW sanctioned tourneys and events.

I've only gamed somewhat regularly at two GW stores in northern VA. At one, the GW employee was a slight D!CK about things. He came and looked at my old Dark Angels models and told me three of my figures could not be used in store - because they were not GW models. Turns out he had no clue about some of the old Rogue Trader models and was politely educated by myself and the buddy I played with via the Stuff of Legends.

Link 1 - http://www.solegends.com/citle1990/numbered/le02spacemarine/index.htm

Link 2 - http://www.solegends.com/citle1990/numbered/le10powermarine/index.htm

I cannot find the old graviton beamer figure link.

Even then he was a little skeptical. I think the attitude varies as the experience and maturity of the employees do themselves. It seems some of the younger employees are more - the cult of GW can do no wrong.

At the second store, near Old Keane Mill road (no longer located there - it has moved not sure where) the manager and another employee were open minded about 3rd party items, including Chapter House - so long as you did not point things out or try and bash GW. I always felt that was reasonable - there is no reason to go to someone’s house and say "you suck, this is better."

One of the rules for tournaments as explained to me was - mainly GW items or scratch built items - no predominately 3rd party items passed as GW.

I like the way most of the independant retailers run things. Most I have played at really leave it to the players and leagues/gaming groups to determine the rules for tournaments unless the store sponsors the game line's trounaments. But then most independants also realize that pushing one product over another may or may not have unintended consequences.

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:
Their store, their rules.

My personal opinion is that the moment GW stopped supporting any tournaments they lost all credibility in "requiring" GW only models for any sort of event. Want to play an entire ork army made of warpath and kromlech? awesome.

This x 1000. I've been banned for not using GW figures in my army from a notF-LGS in Japan because they wanted to get GW`s support for tournaments and extra publicity in WD and GW Japan web site, I totally agreed with their policy and stop patronizing them in exchange. As they only place I could play then was my place I made the jump to 3rd party figures and stopped buying GW figures at inflated prices. Now I play a couple times a year in tournaments where people went through the same experience due to GW's policies for Japan, creativeness has jumped with many cool conversions present at our games now that GW has nothing to say on how we play.

I personally support GW banning non-GW from their stores, I even support them banning veterans from them, hell! even banning all clients is a great move on their part. From my PoV things can only improve if they did that.

M.

At a GW store: 100% GW, but you can always seal up 3rd party bits inside your vehicles if you want to feel like a rebel.

Very much a "what they don't know won't hurt them" viewpoint for me. If pressed, they'd get a "I built it myself" as the most thorough answer they'd get out of it.

The vast majority of my 40K stuff is GW and FW, so there wouldn't be an issue. My Dwarves are about 60% Mantic so would be pretty easy to spot.

Luckily for me the nearest GW is a half hour drive and there are two LGS closer that don't care if I was using paper cutouts.