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There is, but I think you have to cobble it together yourself from their forum posts?

 Alpharius wrote:
There is, but I think you have to cobble it together yourself from their forum posts?

Wow, that sucks. I already thought it was lame that I had to buy a rulebook revision, and there's a _third_ version that is only available via random forum posts? Jeez.

In fairness, they are getting the 'final' changes incorporated into a FAQ and an Errata so you won't have to search through the random forum posts.

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Anyone else notice CMON Has gone Dark?

IT's been 3 weeks since they told me I'd be refunded in 1-2 weeks. No responses to a single email for 3 weeks now.

They have also disconnected their prior phone number. I'm beginning to get worried CMON is preparing to rip people off en-masse.

...oops how silly of me.

I took this from the SW Comments:

Jason wants a T-Shirt Jardine 5 days ago

and again on the SMV forums, Mike repeats his offer of help ...
.
"Posted Today, 11:40 AM
I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

I will help anyone who needs it - just email me and let me know you details (preferably with any email conversations you've had with cmon).

mike "

CMoN has never really been great about answering email.

CMON has always been fast and expedient with me, even when everyone else was complaining, they were replying to me within 24 hours. This is the first time I've experienced the 'cold shoulder' from them in this regard. I'm not happy as I was given a deadline of 1-2 weeks to be issued my refund and it's been over 3 weeks now.

I'm guessing they had too many refund requests and now they don't know what to do. Since they've already provided me with a written agreement they are refunding me, it would become a legal matter if they do not especially since I more than proved the destruction of my items to them and god it was fun.

Its standard practice from them for me. Three or four of thier projects from Zombicide to Relic Knights, to this hum dinger went sour, not to mention the gak they tried to pull on my credit card.

So now, anything with CMON in there, I avoide them like the plague. They got a few million out of the deal, they could care less if they do what they say or not, by now.

 Grot 6 wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Anyone else notice CMON Has gone Dark?

IT's been 3 weeks since they told me I'd be refunded in 1-2 weeks. No responses to a single email for 3 weeks now.

They have also disconnected their prior phone number. I'm beginning to get worried CMON is preparing to rip people off en-masse.

...oops how silly of me.

I took this from the SW Comments:

Jason wants a T-Shirt Jardine 5 days ago

and again on the SMV forums, Mike repeats his offer of help ...
.
"Posted Today, 11:40 AM
I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

I will help anyone who needs it - just email me and let me know you details (preferably with any email conversations you've had with cmon).

mike "

CMoN has never really been great about answering email.

CMON has always been fast and expedient with me, even when everyone else was complaining, they were replying to me within 24 hours. This is the first time I've experienced the 'cold shoulder' from them in this regard. I'm not happy as I was given a deadline of 1-2 weeks to be issued my refund and it's been over 3 weeks now.

I'm guessing they had too many refund requests and now they don't know what to do. Since they've already provided me with a written agreement they are refunding me, it would become a legal matter if they do not especially since I more than proved the destruction of my items to them and god it was fun.

Its standard practice from them for me. Three or four of thier projects from Zombicide to Relic Knights, to this hum dinger went sour, not to mention the gak they tried to pull on my credit card.

So now, anything with CMON in there, I avoide them like the plague. They got a few million out of the deal, they could care less if they do what they say or not, by now.

So I emailed Mike McVey about it, because he's supposed to be helping people. He insulted me for putting down his game and gave me a sob story about his sick mother he had to take care of being the reason Sedition Wars sucks so bad and apparently he never bought a new house (like HE claimed last year) but in fact, went to go take care of sick old mom right after he made a million on Sedition Wars.

What a nice guy right?

This really makes me feel so much better about destroying my Sedition Wars junk.

Grot 6, what did they do to your credit card? Should I go back over my statements with a fine-toothed comb and a troubled brow?


IdentifyZero, would you mind posting the actual email he sent you? I'd love to read it.

I can just imagine a cornered McVey saying whatever it takes for you to let him gi, then slipping around a corner, pulling off his mask, slipping into a European sedan and vanishing like Keyser Soze.

 Alpharius wrote:
There is, but I think you have to cobble it together yourself from their forum posts?

Nope, they're just long documents.

Also, I believe the stated intention is for them to ultimately at very least be incorporated into PDFs, if not printed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Anyone else notice CMON Has gone Dark?

IT's been 3 weeks since they told me I'd be refunded in 1-2 weeks. No responses to a single email for 3 weeks now.

They have also disconnected their prior phone number. I'm beginning to get worried CMON is preparing to rip people off en-masse.

...oops how silly of me.

I took this from the SW Comments:

Jason wants a T-Shirt Jardine 5 days ago

and again on the SMV forums, Mike repeats his offer of help ...
.
"Posted Today, 11:40 AM
I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

I will help anyone who needs it - just email me and let me know you details (preferably with any email conversations you've had with cmon).

mike "

CMoN has never really been great about answering email.

CMON has always been fast and expedient with me, even when everyone else was complaining, they were replying to me within 24 hours. This is the first time I've experienced the 'cold shoulder' from them in this regard. I'm not happy as I was given a deadline of 1-2 weeks to be issued my refund and it's been over 3 weeks now.

I'm guessing they had too many refund requests and now they don't know what to do. Since they've already provided me with a written agreement they are refunding me, it would become a legal matter if they do not especially since I more than proved the destruction of my items to them and god it was fun.

Its standard practice from them for me. Three or four of thier projects from Zombicide to Relic Knights, to this hum dinger went sour, not to mention the gak they tried to pull on my credit card.

So now, anything with CMON in there, I avoide them like the plague. They got a few million out of the deal, they could care less if they do what they say or not, by now.

So I emailed Mike McVey about it, because he's supposed to be helping people. He insulted me for putting down his game and gave me a sob story about his sick mother he had to take care of being the reason Sedition Wars sucks so bad and apparently he never bought a new house (like HE claimed last year) but in fact, went to go take care of sick old mom right after he made a million on Sedition Wars.

What a nice guy right?

This really makes me feel so much better about destroying my Sedition Wars junk.

I would also like to see this email, it sounds very unlike everything I have heard about McVey.

Well, one of the devs was sick around the time the 2nd edition of the rules came out, but hopefully Rob wasn't his mother...

I have PMed anyone that asked for the emails, the email. I have a feeling if I post it on here, I'll get another one month ban like the last time I posted an email reply on Dakka.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I have PMed anyone that asked for the emails, the email. I have a feeling if I post it on here, I'll get another one month ban like the last time I posted an email reply on Dakka.

It does make for some interesting reading. Reminds me of Days of our Lives...


But without Bo, Hope and Victor.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I have PMed anyone that asked for the emails, the email. I have a feeling if I post it on here, I'll get another one month ban like the last time I posted an email reply on Dakka.

While I can see why Mike's been pissed off at your rather harsh/antagonistic criticism (assuming it's been the same tone as dakka's), yeah, that wasn't a hugely professional response.

I dunno, if I were you, I'd cut my losses, sell what I couldn't get a refund from CMoN for, have a few stiff drinks, and move on. It sucks a lot to feel burned (esp. b/c I remember you used to be a big fan of SMV), but you've only got one life, and do you really want to spend it in a flame war over a board game? I'm not trying to trivialize your loss or criticize your behavior, but I've been in similar situations, and never felt I really "won" anything in the end- in retrospect, I've always regretted wasting time I could have been enjoying myself or doing something productive, staying angry instead.

edit: clarity

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I have PMed anyone that asked for the emails, the email. I have a feeling if I post it on here, I'll get another one month ban like the last time I posted an email reply on Dakka.

hmmm... I am seeing only one side of the story with the email, but you can tell from his tone that he is frustrated and almost washes his hands from the project. Whilst he has my sympathies his creation has turned a bit sour, he cannot completely dissolve himself from blame. I would like to 'really' know how much of this mess was his and how much was CMoN's.

I must admit when I received my second wave I was so disappointed with the quality that I did sell the whole lot off and just put the whole mess behind me. IdentifyZero, I do not think you are going to get a Christmas card this year from McVey judging by his email.

IdentifyZero can you send me that email. I would be interested in reading it.

Same here - I'd like to see it as well.

Thanks!

And me, my SW languishes in its box hoping one day it will be fixed.

Thanks

Hey guys,

It seems one sided because I forwarded him all of my emails to CMOn including 29 photos of me BURNING my sedition wars stuff. On his facebook page I had told him exactly the things he claims in the email. Nothing more, until my reply of course.

I don't give a rats ass about SW except my refund at this point. I was told if CMON was going quiet, mcVey would help. Guess not. lol

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey guys,

It seems one sided because I forwarded him all of my emails to CMOn including 29 photos of me BURNING my sedition wars stuff. On his facebook page I had told him exactly the things he claims in the email. Nothing more, until my reply of course.

I don't give a rats ass about SW except my refund at this point. I was told if CMON was going quiet, mcVey would help. Guess not. lol

So basically you willfully destroyed your reward then went looking for a refund?

I'd be interested in seeing the email.

I've said before and I will say it again, really wish SM and cmon played small ball with this.

Rather than a ton of homages and piles of minis, should have kept with just a small core box set with hard plastic models via wargames factory.

Stalin was wrong about the whole quantity being quality.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey guys,

It seems one sided because I forwarded him all of my emails to CMOn including 29 photos of me BURNING my sedition wars stuff. On his facebook page I had told him exactly the things he claims in the email. Nothing more, until my reply of course.

I don't give a rats ass about SW except my refund at this point. I was told if CMON was going quiet, mcVey would help. Guess not. lol

So basically you willfully destroyed your reward then went looking for a refund?

No, I was told by CMON to destroy my items and send pictures to get a full refund.

I didn't destroy it for LOLs. I gotta say? It felt good destroying it though. Much better than I felt receiving it.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey guys,

It seems one sided because I forwarded him all of my emails to CMOn including 29 photos of me BURNING my sedition wars stuff. On his facebook page I had told him exactly the things he claims in the email. Nothing more, until my reply of course.

I don't give a rats ass about SW except my refund at this point. I was told if CMON was going quiet, mcVey would help. Guess not. lol

So basically you willfully destroyed your reward then went looking for a refund?

CMON offered a refund to people, but rather than dealing with shipping and sorting out the stuff they asked for backers to just destroy them.

It's actually a better idea as very few of these things would actually stand a chance to resell.

I wanna see videos and photos.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey guys,

It seems one sided because I forwarded him all of my emails to CMOn including 29 photos of me BURNING my sedition wars stuff. On his facebook page I had told him exactly the things he claims in the email. Nothing more, until my reply of course.

I don't give a rats ass about SW except my refund at this point. I was told if CMON was going quiet, mcVey would help. Guess not. lol

So basically you willfully destroyed your reward then went looking for a refund?

CMON offered a refund to people, but rather than dealing with shipping and sorting out the stuff they asked for backers to just destroy them.

It's actually a better idea as very few of these things would actually stand a chance to resell.

I wanna see videos and photos.

I want to post a photo-log but not until I get my refund. Since others could simply use my photos and make their own claims of destruction.

Well, didn't think about that.

I would have just posted them all over the internet like an idiot.

 Piston Honda wrote:
Well, didn't think about that.

I would have just posted them all over the internet like an idiot.

It's all good lol. I'm not as much of a hothead as people think. I wish I could have been wrong about all of this from the start. :(

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey guys,

It seems one sided because I forwarded him all of my emails to CMOn including 29 photos of me BURNING my sedition wars stuff. On his facebook page I had told him exactly the things he claims in the email. Nothing more, until my reply of course.

I don't give a rats ass about SW except my refund at this point. I was told if CMON was going quiet, mcVey would help. Guess not. lol

So basically you willfully destroyed your reward then went looking for a refund?

He destroyed it and documented doing it so he could get a refund. He was instructed to do so by CMON.

At the very least, this served as a cautionary tale of what to expect with kickstarters.

Also to avoid the material the miniatures are made of like the plague. I would rather work with metal.

I'm not done with kickstarters but I will be vacillate with any and all future kickstarters.

I'll hold out for a reprint of the rule book once all the rules are settled. Even if it becomes a fan project, I like it enough to let it linger unplayed for a while.

Unfortunate that Mike has acted this way.

 Piston Honda wrote:
At the very least, this served as a cautionary tale of what to expect with kickstarters.

Also to avoid the material the miniatures are made of like the plague. I would rather work with metal.

I'm not done with kickstarters but I will be vacillate with any and all future kickstarters.

The CMON/McVey 'hype' on this one was substantial - and the miniatures and material didn't live up to it, at least not for me.

I know I'm VERY cautious of any 'restic' KS campaigns now though, so there is that!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:
At the very least, this served as a cautionary tale of what to expect with kickstarters.

Also to avoid the material the miniatures are made of like the plague. I would rather work with metal.

I'm not done with kickstarters but I will be vacillate with any and all future kickstarters.

The CMON/McVey 'hype' on this one was substantial - and the miniatures and material didn't live up to it, at least not for me.

I know I'm VERY cautious of any 'restic' KS campaigns now though, so there is that!

Which is why I didn't back Wrath of Kings. More so with the game being massive.

Despite the loss of detail with this material which I can live with, trying to trim the mold lines of 30, 40, 50 models is just going to suck.

5 to 8 models? sure ok, sucks but not that much.

not looking forward to my relic knights coming in.

So, the part that really gets to me is just how many updates were full of "Can't update--buying a house" or "Can't update--installing internet in our new house." Now McVey claims that it wasn't a new house at all, but his sick old mum's place, where they were too busy caring for her?


Seriously, that's a hell of a retcon.