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 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Idea of floating Sporemines! Those could really clog up the movement of flyers, and it would be rather cool!

Floating sporemines will hit nothing fast moving in 3D space. Living drones could be the answer.

Yeah, in game terms you could have one Spore represent the billions of explosive spores that would do things like clog engines, and corrode the aircraft.

 Sasori wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Idea of floating Sporemines! Those could really clog up the movement of flyers, and it would be rather cool!

Floating sporemines will hit nothing fast moving in 3D space. Living drones could be the answer.

Yeah, in game terms you could have one Spore represent the billions of explosive spores that would do things like clog engines, and corrode the aircraft.

Or have spore bases, with lots of mini spores on them, like the ripper swarms

Not being an active 'nid player, I can't exactly comment on what you guys want. However, aren't Tyranids and Space Marines the two armies that have gotten a codex update every edition since their release? I mean, Tyranids are one of the oldest factions (seeing as we had Tyranids before we even knew they were called Tyranids ala the Genestealers in Spacehulk)

 washout77 wrote:
Not being an active 'nid player, I can't exactly comment on what you guys want. However, aren't Tyranids and Space Marines the two armies that have gotten a codex update every edition since their release? I mean, Tyranids are one of the oldest factions (seeing as we had Tyranids before we even knew they were called Tyranids ala the Genestealers in Spacehulk)

Even older, Genestealers were in Space Crusade, along with Rogue Trader style Chaos Marines and Dreadnought and Chaos Androids (not Necrons).

But yes, Tyranids have so far gotten a codex every edition - the only army other than Space Marines to get that treatment. IIRC, Tyranids were also their best selling xenos line up until 5th edition. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave them the royal treatment to get them selling again.

I'd love for gw to fix the "can't assault out of deep strike" for lictors, trygons and mycetic units, and an actual mycetic spore model.

sLeEpYrOcK wrote:
I'd love for gw to fix the "can't assault out of deep strike" for lictors, trygons and mycetic units, and an actual mycetic spore model.

As much as I agree with this statement as it regards to lictors (they are utterly pointless without it), I don't see how this mechanic is broken and needs to be "fixed" for trygons or mycetic spores. If you're going to change it for them, then you should change it for everyone. If you can assault from mycetic spores, I can assault out of drop pods.

 ragingmunkyz wrote:

sLeEpYrOcK wrote:
I'd love for gw to fix the "can't assault out of deep strike" for lictors, trygons and mycetic units, and an actual mycetic spore model.

As much as I agree with this statement as it regards to lictors (they are utterly pointless without it), I don't see how this mechanic is broken and needs to be "fixed" for trygons or mycetic spores. If you're going to change it for them, then you should change it for everyone. If you can assault from mycetic spores, I can assault out of drop pods.

I'd rather they fixed the Genestealers.

It might be interesting to have some mechanic for nids for when fighting imperial guard, they can somehow cause a certain number of troops to be revealed as members of genestealers cults and turn on their fellows.

The easiest way would just be to give us a modified FOC at all points levels. But have it equal to what other codex's can take as allies, so for example standard FOC is 2 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 x Elite, Fast and Heavy, with one Fort, 1 allied attachment FOC 1 HQ 2 Troops, 1 fast, elite and heavy.

So our FOC would be, 3 HQ's, 8 Troops, and 4 x Elite, Fast and Heavy. With 1 Fort.

What happened to all the cool stuff from the second edition codex, anyway? It used to be that there were all these crazy rules representing the weight of the Tyranid swarm and its effects on supply, logistics, morale and all that sort of thing. IIRC, it even had special battle missions that applied to the Tyranids instead of the regular ones.

Playing Tyranids in points games in 6th edition always feels weird to me. Like the Hive Tyrant just turned up for honourable combat with the precise points value allowed? It just doesn't feel very Tyranidy.

I'd rather see that sort of stuff represented than new bling model X.

Also, +1 for Genestealer Cult, but at least in second edition the hive fleets couldn't actually ally with the Genestealer Cult, IIRC. If it was there, maybe it'd be better served by some rules other than just having them deploy together on the table, like either the hive fleet or the cult have to outflank with their entire force and if they get too close together then the cult gets eaten.

Well if we're going to bring back old tyranid 2nd edition rules, can we also bring back the old results for destroyed vehicles? Because I really miss blowing up a tank, only for it to fly up into the air and land on an enemy squad.

Since we're wish-listing I kinda miss the falling back toward synaptic creatures bit. Not because it was strong but because it was thematic and set the nids apart. Might need to be tweaked though.

Wishlisting! Lovely.

I think the way to represent Genestealer Cults would, sadly, be more of an option for IG to have a limited alliance with Genestealers (and maybe Ymgarls?), than to allow Tyranids as a whole to ally in IG. Add a Patriarch as an HQ choice for the Tyranid allies, remove the IG options of adding Commisars, named characters, and Orders, and you're probably good to go.

In terms of nids as a whole, I'd really just like to see some rules changes for the underpowered units, and maybe a slight toning down of the Tervigon (easiest one would probably be to say that if you do take one as a Troop choice, it's non-scoring, though the gants it makes still score).

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

In terms of nids as a whole, I'd really just like to see some rules changes for the underpowered units, and maybe a slight toning down of the Tervigon (easiest one would probably be to say that if you do take one as a Troop choice, it's non-scoring, though the gants it makes still score).

That's my fear for a new codex is that they are going to nerf Tervigons and buff nothing. It will be another 5th edition all over again and every new codex will just be worse than the previous one. I don't think they need to change anything with the Tervigon and the main issue is that the troop Tervigon is pretty much the best thing we have. Maybe with some better options the Tervigon spam wouldn't be so mandatory.

I would be OK without allies for the most part if we did have consistent ways of dealing with things like gunlines and flyer spam.

Forget allies, a true nid player doesn't need or want them. What we will need is a use for certain models that are effectively useless from a gaming stand point. Tervigons are fine just the way they are. Genestealers need to be address. Nids are a CC army. Let's make sure they are that first and foremost. We need to be able to tackle flyers some how. Especially since there isn't a single skyfire weapon that can pen av12. Flyrants can't do it on their own via glace.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't think that nerfing Tervigons, in a vacuum, would be a good thing. I do think that if the sub-par units were buffed a bit, though, the existing Tyranid codex could be quite competitive even with very slightly nerfed Tervigons. Very slightly.

If I could take Warriors, Shrikes, Raveners, Lictors, Harpies, Venomthropes, Pyrovores, Tyrannofex, Genestealers, Rippers, Sky Slashers, Spore Mines, Mawlocs & Hormagaunts reliably in a competitive environment, then Tyranid players wouldn't need Tervigons, Hive Guard, Tervigons & Flyrants to survive.

Tyranids don't need allies, they need point and rule fixes for what's in the codex. All of the answers are in the fluff.

Genestealers should make Marines afraid, especially if they are hiding in terrain. Lictors/Deathleaper should be able to boost my reserves without being revealed. Our 50 point T4 3W models should have the ability to shrug off a Missile or Lascannon shot without having to get a FNP buff from an additional unit. Biovores should be able to shoot at Flyers, Gargoyles should "Birdstrike" flyers, and we should definitely have a FMC that can Vector Strike a Stormraven and blow it out of the sky. Allow a unit to be dedicated to the Trygon Tunnel so that it works the way you want it too. And last but certainly not least... bring back my Carnifex! Where is his 2+ save? Why is he so overcosted?

I'm ok with not being able to assault out of Mycetic Spores or even assault out of Reserves (except Lictors & Genestealers), but I think they should be able to use their lash whips to pull nearby units into assault.

(Random comment - FNP doesn't help the T4 W3 models because ID cancels FNP)
I agree. I'd love to have reasons to take my ~30 Warriors (besides as Primes in an Apoc game) or my ~70 Genestealers (besides pretending they're Ymgarls). I still take Carnifexes because I love them so much (and hate the snake models - Trygons/Mawlocs/Raveners).

rigeld2 wrote:
(Random comment - FNP doesn't help the T4 W3 models because ID cancels FNP)
I agree. I'd love to have reasons to take my ~30 Warriors (besides as Primes in an Apoc game) or my ~70 Genestealers (besides pretending they're Ymgarls). I still take Carnifexes because I love them so much (and hate the snake models - Trygons/Mawlocs/Raveners).

If you could guarantee Invisibility by the Swarmlord, Genestealers remain incredibly nasty. It's the change to model-by-model cover saves, along with "remove closest model first" that hurt them so badly.

Sadly, with only a single option for a Mastery Level 2 psyker, it's hard to give them the support they need. Much easier to just load up on Biomancy Tervigons.

Exactly. Invisibility is awesome - but it's only able to be cast by one model in the codex. And while its likely that he gets it, it's not guaranteed - and he's skipping Iron Arm on himself.

 Sasori wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Idea of floating Sporemines! Those could really clog up the movement of flyers, and it would be rather cool!

Floating sporemines will hit nothing fast moving in 3D space. Living drones could be the answer.

Yeah, in game terms you could have one Spore represent the billions of explosive spores that would do things like clog engines, and corrode the aircraft.

FW did it http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/MIEOTIC-SPORE-SACKS.html

I got it, I used it and I like It

rigeld2 wrote:
(Random comment - FNP doesn't help the T4 W3 models because ID cancels FNP)
I agree. I'd love to have reasons to take my ~30 Warriors (besides as Primes in an Apoc game) or my ~70 Genestealers (besides pretending they're Ymgarls). I still take Carnifexes because I love them so much (and hate the snake models - Trygons/Mawlocs/Raveners).

Sorry, forgot about that... but it makes my point even more valid.

hellpato wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Idea of floating Sporemines! Those could really clog up the movement of flyers, and it would be rather cool!

Floating sporemines will hit nothing fast moving in 3D space. Living drones could be the answer.

Yeah, in game terms you could have one Spore represent the billions of explosive spores that would do things like clog engines, and corrode the aircraft.

FW did it http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/MIEOTIC-SPORE-SACKS.html

I got it, I used it and I like It

And then they changed the rule and took it away...

They change the rules (no more fly high and less spore mines when they exploded) because at the time, 5ed was ok and they had no flyers in the games, now, that will be something they can bring back.... most write that on the FW facebook.

I love wish listing

Here are mine:

HQ
-Hive Tyrants need like a 10 point base drop, but make it so Flyrants cost just as much
-Tervigons are fine, but shouldn't be scoring (slight nerf)
-Swarmlord needs about a 10-20 point drop
-Prime needs a model, the ability to take wings, and join Warriors in a Spod

Elite
-Hive Guard are fine
-Lictors need to be able to assault out of deep strike, and give the +1 reserve bonus without being on the table.
-Deathleaper needs to be able to assault out of deep strike, all attacks are precision strikes, and give the +1 reserve bonus without being on the table.
-Venomthropes need some help, but don't know what
-Zoanthropes are fine
-Doom needs a slight points increase, maybe 10 points.
-Ymgarls are fine
-Pyrovore desperately needs torrent, and should be able to take a Spod

Troop:
-Warriors need to be either T: 5 W: 2 or have eternal warrior
-Genestealers need to be able to assault when coming in from reserve (not Spod though)
-Termagants are fine
-Hormagants need to be 5 ppm
-Rippers need some help, not sure what

Fast Attack:
-Shrikes need the same treatment as warriors
-Raveners need the same treatment as warriors
-Gargoyles are fine, being able to suicide flyers would be really nice though.
-Sky-slashers need some help, not sure what
-Harpy really needs some AA options, and shouldn't be a joke
-Spore Mines would make great AA if they worked like jellyfish. Tentacles that go down for a very long ways, and are nearly invisible. Just enough to grab onto the mine so it can retract and hit the plane. Definitely a feasible AA method.

Heavy Support:
-Carnifex should be about 20 points cheaper, with a 20 point upgrade to have a 2+ save. Getting rid of their armored shell was stupid.
-Old One Eye really needs to not suck. Giving him an invul save might help.
-Biovores seem fine to me, but giving them an AA option would be really nice.
-Trygons seem fine to me.
-Mawlocs I'd like to see have some kind of accurate deep strike. Maybe make it so they only scatter 1D6, that'd make them dramatically better.
-Tyrannofex I'd like to see being BS 4, and with a lot more options. Keep the points akin to that of a Land Raider, but make it a better unit. Give it more than 1 gun that can reach out and touch people at 36"+



Since flyers were introduced, I've always felt that air to air should be fast attack and AAA types should be heavy support. Every codex should have 3+ options to counter flyers, each with different capabilities.

For instance:
-A ground based one that has the option of hitting aircraft.
-A flying one that has the option of hitting aircraft.
-A flying one that can only hit aircraft, but ensures air superiority.


-Rabid

Suicide gargoyles sounds cool and makes sense. Have them so they can charge a zooming flyer, taking a dangerous terrain test with no armour saves. For each one you fail, knock off a hull point (with a 5++ save for the flyer).

Pretty simple, but means that you can obviously overkill the flyer, but also lose half your unit, not including any damage done by the knackered flyer.

I agree with a lot of what Rabid1903 said in his wish list.

My additions would be that Venomthropes need to be Independent Characters so they can join squads for extra support.
I don't think lictors should be able to assault out of deep strike but from outflank would be OK. Same with Genestealers. A deathleaper, being a unique character, should be able to assault out of DS.
Pyrovores do need a torrent attack and make them T6 like Hive Guard.
Old One Eye should be about 60-80 points cheaper, should be able to take a Spod, and have a "get back up" ability like the necron but he isn't removed if he fails it.

 rabid1903 wrote:
I love wish listing

-Rabid

Me too!

HQ
-Hive Tyrants should be ML2, or at least be able to take an upgrade for it. Their base cost should also be a little lower
-Tervigons should probably be HQ units that don't use a FOC slot if you have termagants with them, forcing them to spawn to score.
-Swarmlord should be ML 3/4 and Eternal Warrior for those points.

Elite
-Lictors should have the option to automatically come from reserve on turn 1 (like Deathwing), making their abilities useful
They should probably be under Fast Attack also
-Venomthropes should be IC's that don't use a FOC slot, can take 1-2 per Troops choice
-Pyrovore could use an extra wound, AP3 on their weapon and maybe be IC's too.

Troop:
-Warriors should be T5 W2, or at least get a 3+ save.
-Genestealers could have a nice niche if they always counted as having assault grenades
-Hormagants upgrades should be cheaper, not sure why they're twice as much as Gargoyles when Gargoyles are more mobile
-Rippers main issue is that the Swarm rules are dumb. They should really have EW, except against template weapons which ID them. No idea why they can never score either.
Perhaps giving them Beasts, S4+Rending would give them a use in glancing vehicles to death

Fast Attack:
-Shrikes need the same treatment as warriors, with a 4+ save
-Harpy should be S6, with a S7+ non-blast weapon option

Heavy Support:
-Carnifexes should be T7 or T8, letting them become real damage sinks and setting them apart from all the other T6 MC's
-Mawlocs could be more useable once Lictor reserve abilities are more reliable
-Tyrannofex should be BS4, or have it's weapons upgraded with more shots

 rabid1903 wrote:
I love wish listing

Here are mine:

HQ
-Hive Tyrants need like a 10 point base drop, but make it so Flyrants cost just as much
-Tervigons are fine, but shouldn't be scoring (slight nerf)
-Swarmlord needs about a 10-20 point drop
-Prime needs a model, the ability to take wings, and join Warriors in a Spod

Elite
-Hive Guard are fine
-Lictors need to be able to assault out of deep strike, and give the +1 reserve bonus without being on the table.
-Deathleaper needs to be able to assault out of deep strike, all attacks are precision strikes, and give the +1 reserve bonus without being on the table.
-Venomthropes need some help, but don't know what
-Zoanthropes are fine
-Doom needs a slight points increase, maybe 10 points.
-Ymgarls are fine
-Pyrovore desperately needs torrent, and should be able to take a Spod

Troop:
-Warriors need to be either T: 5 W: 2 or have eternal warrior
-Genestealers need to be able to assault when coming in from reserve (not Spod though)
-Termagants are fine
-Hormagants need to be 5 ppm
-Rippers need some help, not sure what

Fast Attack:
-Shrikes need the same treatment as warriors
-Raveners need the same treatment as warriors
-Gargoyles are fine, being able to suicide flyers would be really nice though.
-Sky-slashers need some help, not sure what
-Harpy really needs some AA options, and shouldn't be a joke
-Spore Mines would make great AA if they worked like jellyfish. Tentacles that go down for a very long ways, and are nearly invisible. Just enough to grab onto the mine so it can retract and hit the plane. Definitely a feasible AA method.

Heavy Support:
-Carnifex should be about 20 points cheaper, with a 20 point upgrade to have a 2+ save. Getting rid of their armored shell was stupid.
-Old One Eye really needs to not suck. Giving him an invul save might help.
-Biovores seem fine to me, but giving them an AA option would be really nice.
-Trygons seem fine to me.
-Mawlocs I'd like to see have some kind of accurate deep strike. Maybe make it so they only scatter 1D6, that'd make them dramatically better.
-Tyrannofex I'd like to see being BS 4, and with a lot more options. Keep the points akin to that of a Land Raider, but make it a better unit. Give it more than 1 gun that can reach out and touch people at 36"+



Since flyers were introduced, I've always felt that air to air should be fast attack and AAA types should be heavy support. Every codex should have 3+ options to counter flyers, each with different capabilities.

For instance:
-A ground based one that has the option of hitting aircraft.
-A flying one that has the option of hitting aircraft.
-A flying one that can only hit aircraft, but ensures air superiority.


-Rabid

Venomthropes should confer shrouded to units within 6" - replacing their static 5+ cover save. That would make them worthwhile in my mind.

rollawaythestone wrote:

snip

Venomthropes should confer shrouded to units within 6" - replacing their static 5+ cover save. That would make them worthwhile in my mind.

In a single unit of Venomthropes; If you have 1 Venomthrope then give us Stealth, 2 give us Shrouded, 3 Venomthropes and then Stealth & Shrouded stack... that would be awesome and simulate the spore cloud diminishing as the Venomthropes die.


*edit for grammar