Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Double foc ?
is it a real thing or just a house rule or sumtin'
i read about it once and im not sure about it but what is it and what does it do?
anyone?

Yes. See Bigger Games in the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook. p. 110.

Note that many tournaments and clubs play 1,999 +1 point games specifically to avoid this.

Please read page 110 of your rulebook, then re-read pages 108 and 109 if you are still not clear. If the rules still don't make sense to you after that, go ahead and come back here and ask us again.

It's real. If you have a game over 2000 points you're entitled to a second Force Organization Chart. Note that if you have used an allied detachment with your first chart, and choose to use a second allied detachment in your second FOC, it must come from the same codex.

Sigh...teach a man to fish..

Yea it's a real thing, but the majority of players who state they want to play a game a 2k mean 1999+1, just to avoid the double FOC.

Given that the default rulebook rule is that 2k= double force org, any player wanting to play 2k with only a single force org needs to make that clear to their prospective opponent/s.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Given that the default rulebook rule is that 2k= double force org, any player wanting to play 2k with only a single force org needs to make that clear to their prospective opponent/s.

Which caused some problems last 2000 point game I played. Guy did not specify only 1 FOC and I used 2. Though to be fair with the exception of 1 HQ my whole army could still fit in a single FOC.

 juraigamer wrote:
Yea it's a real thing, but the majority of players who state they want to play a game a 2k mean 1999+1, just to avoid the double FOC.

I would dispute that applying to the 'majority' of players.

 juraigamer wrote:
Yea it's a real thing, but the majority of players who state they want to play a game a 2k mean 1999+1, just to avoid the double FOC.

Surely a person that intends to play a 1999+1 point game (with all that entails) would use the wording; "a 1999+1 point game".
Saying: "a 2000 point game" and assuming that a stipulation of "I really mean 1999+1 because of X" is implicit and understood, is completely illogical.

In short, you are not making much sense.


...

It's like you guys never get to see your opponents list before the match or something, you will clearly see if they double FOC and after that if they need a kick in the nuts.

I don't have my rulebook to hand, but... isn't the ruling on page 110 worded "may" and not "does" or "must"? Meaning it's optional, and that the default position would still be just one FOC unless agreed otherwise.

If you're playing a game of 2k or more, you can field an additional primary detachment. That's the rule. If you want to forbid that second primary detachment, you'll have to house rule/agree with your opponent.

 juraigamer wrote:
It's like you guys never get to see your opponents list before the match or something, you will clearly see if they double FOC and after that if they need a kick in the nuts.

1. Is that an argument against anything that has been said about your previous statement?

2. Are you somehow arguing that a person, having agreed to play a 2000 point game, deserves some kind of censure or sanction for having followed the rules, as they are clearly written, when creating his army?


You are still not making much sense.


...

 Super Ready wrote:
I don't have my rulebook to hand, but... isn't the ruling on page 110 worded "may" and not "does" or "must"? Meaning it's optional, and that the default position would still be just one FOC unless agreed otherwise.

Nah man it says "can".

I personally think 2000 is a bit small for double FOC (and I'm lucky that my group does too) but I play Elite style armies mainly. Daemons (well used to play Elite style armies. lol) and Chaos Space Marines. Might be better with Horde style armies like IG or Orks though.

The default position is that you must have one FOC, but at 2000 or more points, you may have a second one whether or not your opponent likes it or not.

It's not an optional rule, and anyone who wants to play 2k games with only one FOC allowed is trying to force a house rule on you.

The second FoC is optional. In the way that Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support are optional. Or taking a melta gun in my tactical squad is optional.

Just because my opponent didn't take advantage of it doesn't mean i can't.

personnaly i like that, so i can field a Drake, a biker squad an 2 Dreadclaws without my list becoming illigale.

Forcing stuff because of a tacit and unspoken agreement, is stupid, just talk to the guy, thats more simple and does not leave any space to misunderstanding.

Double FOC, what does it mean? Oh My God. So beautiful. Double FOCCCCC

It's not technically a double FOC, but rather a second primary detachment. That means that both detachments need an HQ and 2 troops, not "I have 1 HQ, 2 troops, and 6 vindicators, LOL!".

Seeing that most of them time to go above the 2k limite you allready fil the 2 HQ and at least 4 Troops Slots.

Also even with 6 Vindis you don't get at the 2k pts limit, you barely made it to the 1k limit.

If you are playing a 4000 pt game, would that mean a triple force orginisation chart?

No.

The second FoC is for 2000 points or more. It's not a FoC for each 2000 points.

 wilsjur wrote:
If you are playing a 4000 pt game, would that mean a triple force orginisation chart?

If you and your opponent wanted to play that way then go for it.

Of course generally at 3000+ points you are into Apocalypse which throws the FOC out the window.

does that mean if you have the second you have to have 2 hq and 4 troops

pretty much.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.