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What if shas'ui fire warriors could don an xv-8 suit?

Just a wish list supposition.

Also no rumors of plastic or updated vespid models? They could fill a very unique role in the tau army with competitive point values and stats...

Natfka again wrote:via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there.


Here is a response from a very reliable rumor checker that sometimes comes in to help us take a closer look at rumors.
via an anonymous source

They're not 85 points base, that's including their Skyfire upgrade.

They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.


this is from the comment section of the post from earlier today.

via shaso_icebornMarch 13, 2013 at 2:10 PM
or Rail Rifle S6 Ap3, Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor) and Rail Cannon S10 Ap1.

 pretre wrote:

Natfka again wrote:They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.

Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor)

There is a huge difference between these rumors, and I really wouldn't want to see Broadsides with Skyfire but not Interceptor.

IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.

 Kwosge wrote:
IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.

When has anything needed to make sense in a sci-fantasy setting...

Quark wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Natfka again wrote:They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.

Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor)

There is a huge difference between these rumors, and I really wouldn't want to see Broadsides with Skyfire but not Interceptor.

Interesting thought - maybe they get Interceptor as part of their base cost? Being able to volley S8 AP1 at deep strikers on the turn they arrive would be wicked...

Doubt we'd get that though.

Veskrashen wrote:

Quark wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Natfka again wrote:They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.

Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor)

There is a huge difference between these rumors, and I really wouldn't want to see Broadsides with Skyfire but not Interceptor.

Interesting thought - maybe they get Interceptor as part of their base cost? Being able to volley S8 AP1 at deep strikers on the turn they arrive would be wicked...

Doubt we'd get that though.

It's more likely that we see 60-70 point base broadsides with their statline as it is currently -- then they can take an upgrade for skyfire for 15-25 points per model. However, that upgrade is likely a separate profile for shooting, which would allow them to still fire at ground targets using full BS. See the soulgrinder harvester cannon for a recent example of this.

I have no authority or inside information, but seeing the trend of GW codices in 6th ed I can see that to be true. Also take into account that when new books come out they sometimes rename weapons.
Rail Rifle
Rail Gun
Rail Cannon <-- this will likely be the s10 ap1 railgun we all currently know and love, but only available on big platforms such as hammerheads and Riptide suits.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
It's more likely that we see 60-70 point base broadsides with their statline as it is currently -- then they can take an upgrade for skyfire for 15-25 points per model. However, that upgrade is likely a separate profile for shooting, which would allow them to still fire at ground targets using full BS. See the soulgrinder harvester cannon for a recent example of this.

I have no authority or inside information, but seeing the trend of GW codices in 6th ed I can see that to be true. Also take into account that when new books come out they sometimes rename weapons.
Rail Rifle
Rail Gun
Rail Cannon <-- this will likely be the s10 ap1 railgun we all currently know and love, but only available on big platforms such as hammerheads and Riptide suits.

Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing with regards to the Railgun family of weapons. It'd make a lot of sense.

Also, from Warseer:

neko wrote:Well, that and a piece of wargear that improves your BS for overwatch purposes

This was in response to a question that referenced the "all units within 6" can overwatch" rumored special rule. If we get multiple units firing Overwatch at something that's charging, at say BS2 or so (or god forbid full BS) that would rather neatly solve Tau's problems with CC. Very different variant of "come at me and my bros, bro!"

Also, this just posted by Neko over on warseer:

Originally Posted by Mos
OK firstly, Tau will NEVER have a hand-to-hand upgrade option other than a Kroot meatshield and this counter-assaulty, units-within-6 inches-get-a-popshot shooting overwatch that some have mentioned.

Well, that and a piece of wargear that improves your BS for overwatch purposes

edit - Ninja'd!

 pretre wrote:

 Kwosge wrote:
IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.

When has anything needed to make sense in a sci-fantasy setting...

Let's be honest,GW is doing a lot of things that customers don't like. Saying 40k is a sci-fi game isn't an excuse. And voicing opinions about what the company is doing or may do it isn't something that should be shunned.

I don't think the Railgun will get just Skyfire. It'll probably allow you to choose to fire Skyfire or not at the beginning of the turn. Interceptor would definately be a shock, since they haven't handed that out to anything besides Fortifications so far and I doubt they'd give that out easily.

I still don't like the idea of a 70 point Broadside with a S8 railgun and SMS. There hasn't been any mention of the stats, so I'm assuming it's still T4 base and 2+ save with no invul. So basically it's a worse version of an Obliterator.

And the rumor of the Riptide (Better than Uber-suit) being an elite is just plain confusing. So what are we going to see in the HS slot? Hammerheads, Skyrays, and Broadsides the only options so far. No mention of the sniper drone teams.

Fast Attack has flyers, and probably new Vespid varients.

HQ hasn't had any noticable mention that I can remember. Aside from a Kroot HQ, I'm not expecting much.

Troops/Elites sounds incredibly disappointing to me. No FOC changing HQs, so no all Crisis suit army while most other armies get to bring all bikes or all terminator lists or something interesting. Elites sound like a crowded slot again, while Troops don't get any real mention. Though I think all the FW needed was an open topped Skimmer, and I did see some mention of that.

Maybe I'm just a negative person, but these rumors all look bad. But maybe that's a good thing. Rumors that look good to me end up being bad when the army actually comes out, and vice versa. Maybe there are just so many changes/updates that the rumor suppliers can't really cover that much and just skimming the most noticable bits people want to see.

 Kwosge wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kwosge wrote:
IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.

When has anything needed to make sense in a sci-fantasy setting...

Let's be honest,GW is doing a lot of things that customers don't like. Saying 40k is a sci-fi game isn't an excuse. And voicing opinions about what the company is doing or may do it isn't something that should be shunned.

What does that have to do with your argument that One Army gets something so Second Army should get the same kind of thing based on an idea of 'realism'?

I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion or complain, I just thought the reasoning was silly. I agree that GW does things that customers don't like but that has nothing to do with shoulder-mounted weapons being the same as their vehicle mounted counterparts.

It always seems like the last couple weeks before an impending release take the LONGEST to get through. I am hotly anticipating the next White Dwarf just to get a fix on the photos and battle report of the lovely blue-skinned fish people.

I'm actually waiting for confirmation more than anything.

The two armies I've wanted to do more than any other, Tau and Daemons released back to back?

Only the models will help me decide.

 Kwosge wrote:
IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.

Lascannons don't use physical ammo, Railguns do. You'd have to have a Broadside carry around ammunition for it's Hammerhead-sized Railgun, whereas the Space Marine can simply draw power from his beefed-up backpack-reactor.

Except that Railgun ammo is actually very small. The only real "punch" from a railgun comes from the magnetic rail launching the shot at insanely high velocity.

Like how Missile Launchers would require ammo. But we know Devastators don't carry tho.... oh... wait.

This was just taken from the comments section of faeit 212's blog:

Gino GoetzMarch 14, 2013 at 8:58 AM
Krisis ( including XV 88 )
Can fire 2 Weapons on moving ( without extra cost )
Optional Skyfire 25p ( choise at the start of the round )
And Kollos with S8 AP1 will cost 60p

If near a Special HQ, if not moving get +1 Shot.
( for a Str 10 Weapon it would be to much, for the S8 it´s strong but not overpowerd )

that is an interesting description for how the battlesuits will now work. Depending on the stats of the SMS system having the ability to fire both on the move would help broadsides become mobile again, and tackle hordes as well as tanks despite losing 2S on the railgun shots. Tacking on skyfire to make them AA further enables their usefulness, while still leaving spots in the army for Hammerheads and Riptide Suits to fall in line.

We will watch for how this develops i'm sure...but i'm still excited.

I just saw that too, Tetrisphreak. But it came from a name I don't recognize and provided no source information, or even clarified if it's a rumor or speculation.

It makes sense though to give the Crisis suit the Relentless USR, since that's what it does. XV-8's would get Jetpacks for the added movement and Broadsides get heavier firepower. I just don't see the HQ giving an extra shot, because as we saw with the DA Dakka banner it usually specifies what exact weapons are affected.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just saw that too, Tetrisphreak. But it came from a name I don't recognize and provided no source information, or even clarified if it's a rumor or speculation.

It makes sense though to give the Crisis suit the Relentless USR, since that's what it does. XV-8's would get Jetpacks for the added movement and Broadsides get heavier firepower. I just don't see the HQ giving an extra shot, because as we saw with the DA Dakka banner it usually specifies what exact weapons are affected.

Oh certainly, i wouldn't put any real money on a random comment. However, it was structured in a way that made sense to me, i could see the suits working in the way he described and the points costs with XV-88's seemed to line up with other rumor sources that Natfka has posted. I'm doing my best not to be impatient but april needs to get here soon!

Also, if any suit can get Skyfire for 25 points, that opens up a lot of options for Crisis Suits as well. FB/MP suits with Skyfire, anyone?

Also, SMS with Skyfire (on, say, a Broadside...) might be interesting as well - since the rumors say they ignore cover, that also means they ignore Jink as well. Worse chances to get those glances, but against lighter flyers it might make a difference.

It makes sense to me for Broadsides to get relentless. Including relentless in the 60-75 pts makes them closer to cost effective. It keeps with the "mobile warfare" feel of Tau. Like a less than static firing line.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Except that Railgun ammo is actually very small. The only real "punch" from a railgun comes from the magnetic rail launching the shot at insanely high velocity.

Like how Missile Launchers would require ammo. But we know Devastators don't carry tho.... oh... wait.

Note how said MIssile Launchers are only S8 as well. Regardless, the Tau obviously aren't able to miniaturize the Railgun while keeping all the oomph, at least not in the upcoming fluff. The Imperial equivalent of a bigger gun on vehicles would be twin-linked lascannons, which you might note the infantry doesn't get. Not to mention the fact that the Imperium is more technologically advanced in the first place (yes, I went there, sue me).

neko wrote:I think old rumours were a little railgun happy though. I don't know if this other old rumour has been debunked, but we don't get a flying railgun either.

In response to questions about Railguns on Ubersuits. So, not S10 rails on battlesuits it looks like, and no railguns on flyers either.

Shame, since I would have loved to have S8 AP1 guns on a Tau flyer. Would've been a great air-air platform.

One of the earlier posts above mentioned Spinewings as the CC choice for Vespid. Remember the now debunked release list that had the following:

256146211440307 Tau Empire Vespid Stingwings / Vespid Spinewings PL a14 Len_A 03 cc

Looks like that list writer must have had ESP or something...think about it...

My main worry now is the 4++ force field in dark angels. There's absolutely no way for me to deal with 6+ vehicles, particularly vehicles with invuln/cover saves, if my railguns become s8. Sure, I do more if I pen due to ap1, but the quintessential railgun would mop up a light mech list like that- but I don't know if a full heavy support complement of s8 railguns could even reliably kill a single rhino per turn in that scenario, mathematically. Ask a space wolf player to remove 2 missile launchers from each squad, and keep them at the same cost- that's kind of like what s8 railguns would be to tau. That hammerhead railgun better be some serious business if they think it'll compensate.

I can't wait until the white dwarf comes around and proves me to be a chicken little. Or the codex comes out and people white knight a really senseless nerf.

tau are going to be very strong AA,

which is good, i think GW realizes they need some blance to all the flying circuses

uberjoras wrote:
My main worry now is the 4++ force field in dark angels. There's absolutely no way for me to deal with 6+ vehicles, particularly vehicles with invuln/cover saves, if my railguns become s8. Sure, I do more if I pen due to ap1, but the quintessential railgun would mop up a light mech list like that- but I don't know if a full heavy support complement of s8 railguns could even reliably kill a single rhino per turn in that scenario, mathematically. Ask a space wolf player to remove 2 missile launchers from each squad, and keep them at the same cost- that's kind of like what s8 railguns would be to tau. That hammerhead railgun better be some serious business if they think it'll compensate.

I can't wait until the white dwarf comes around and proves me to be a chicken little. Or the codex comes out and people white knight a really senseless nerf.

Eh, if the issue is cover / invuls then you're screwed the same regardless if you're using S10 shots or S8 shots. Both are AP1, so have the same chance to cause an explode result on a pen. Sure, you get more pens with S10 than S8, but it's looking like Broadsides will be cheaper base in the new codex. AV 10-12 isn't really the sticking point though - it's those AV13-14 hulls we need to worry about more. If we're losing S10 guns and not getting more melta / lance / haywire options, then things look more dicey.

Veskrashen wrote:

uberjoras wrote:
My main worry now is the 4++ force field in dark angels. There's absolutely no way for me to deal with 6+ vehicles, particularly vehicles with invuln/cover saves, if my railguns become s8. Sure, I do more if I pen due to ap1, but the quintessential railgun would mop up a light mech list like that- but I don't know if a full heavy support complement of s8 railguns could even reliably kill a single rhino per turn in that scenario, mathematically. Ask a space wolf player to remove 2 missile launchers from each squad, and keep them at the same cost- that's kind of like what s8 railguns would be to tau. That hammerhead railgun better be some serious business if they think it'll compensate.

I can't wait until the white dwarf comes around and proves me to be a chicken little. Or the codex comes out and people white knight a really senseless nerf.

Eh, if the issue is cover / invuls then you're screwed the same regardless if you're using S10 shots or S8 shots. Both are AP1, so have the same chance to cause an explode result on a pen. Sure, you get more pens with S10 than S8, but it's looking like Broadsides will be cheaper base in the new codex. AV 10-12 isn't really the sticking point though - it's those AV13-14 hulls we need to worry about more. If we're losing S10 guns and not getting more melta / lance / haywire options, then things look more dicey.

While we're going crazy talking possibilities, there's a chance by the fluff that potentially EMP grenades could be fired from pulse carbines (the model itself even has the launcher modeled underneath the barrel). That would take care of AV13-14 nicely, as would a new crisis suit weapon system with the "haywire" rule, which is also entirely possible since we're supposedly getting a new XV-8 variant. The old staple fusion guns will be available too, likely on cheaper platforms (a suicide suit or piranha could reliably get to the tank and do the job).

stinkyjunk wrote:
One of the earlier posts above mentioned Spinewings as the CC choice for Vespid. Remember the now debunked release list that had the following:

256146211440307 Tau Empire Vespid Stingwings / Vespid Spinewings PL a14 Len_A 03 cc

Looks like that list writer must have had ESP or something...think about it...

Or the guy who made up this new rumor got the name from that list.

It probably just stuck in his memory. And I thought it wasn't a rumour, just a, "they could do this..."