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In a Interesting note. The Black Library seem to have a tau book ready to be released this month about the background of shadowsun.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/shadowsun.html

A hint of things to come perhaps?

The lack of faith in the Tau'va here is most disturbing.....

You need a large barrow on a rail gun as that is where the magnets are in order to accelrate the projectile unlike a normal gun where the propellent is encased inside the shell

but any way yeah seen the new book up for order maybe the tau will be out next month or month after who knows

Lets hope tau get a lot of resculps and new models then on to eldar hopefully

I hope that the Tau get some interesting rules or at least some better models. As of now I only know of one Tau player and his army folds very quickly to others.

bit81 wrote:
You need a large barrow on a rail gun as that is where the magnets are in order to accelrate the projectile unlike a normal gun where the propellent is encased inside the shell

but any way yeah seen the new book up for order maybe the tau will be out next month or month after who knows

Lets hope tau get a lot of resculps and new models then on to eldar hopefully

you know rail guns don't use magnets right? i think you might be thinking of a gauss weapon (and not the necron type)

 Jayden63 wrote:

I bolded the important part and GW's response will be "just as planned". And yeah, its this mentality that pisses veteran gamers off about GW, but they have no allegiance to your existing army, only to their stock holders and yeah, its mind blowing how long this philosophy has worked.

They have a legal and ethical obligation to the shareholders. This is not some crazy fringe philosophy you are talking about.

Railguns use electromagnetic force to propel an object. It's similar in principle to a Gauss gun, but just different in construction. So yeah, Railguns use magnets.

And current test railguns for naval use don't appear to be a different size than the ones mounted on Broadside.

I just hope they look nice. Of course, it would be nice if they have good rules, but I will get a lot more enjoyment from building/painting awesome models than from actually playing games with them. A new crisis suit that looks agile and not... er, chunky... would do wonders for the army.

I just want a army that actually can be played in many different ways other than spamming 2-3 set units *cough*Broadsides*cough*

I want my units that I currently have to give me an effective army *cough*Broadsides*cough* and not have to buy another expensive unit *Cough*Riptide*cough* to take up space for another unit I have plenty of *cough*Crisis Suits*cough*

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I want my units that I currently have to give me an effective army *cough*Broadsides*cough* and not have to buy another expensive unit *Cough*Riptide*cough* to take up space for another unit I have plenty of *cough*Crisis Suits*cough*

Dude...we get it...seriously. GW is not going to keep the Codex static, with just improvements to the current units. They are going to tweak the Codex to fit new units in, and drive sales of what people don't currently have. As I, and several others have stated, GW is loyal only to their shareholders and their bottom line, because they are a business providing a product, and they will do everything they can within their abilites to maximize their profit. If people continue to buy GW products, they will continue to use that same formula. Really, why should GW keep the top tier units of an army the same, and continue to let them be used in the same manner with the same amount of success? What room does that leave for them to make profit to pay their employees and keep their production lines running?

And remember, it's your prerogative to quit, or use the old codex. Otherwise, whatever happens will happen, and you really can't do anything to stop it from happening. If these changes are true, you have your choice to pretty much either adapt or quit. Simple as that, really.

 spectreoneone wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I want my units that I currently have to give me an effective army *cough*Broadsides*cough* and not have to buy another expensive unit *Cough*Riptide*cough* to take up space for another unit I have plenty of *cough*Crisis Suits*cough*

Dude...we get it...seriously. GW is not going to keep the Codex static, with just improvements to the current units.

I dunno, that's what they did with Tau last time around...

New Dark Angels codex did not invalidate anything from my Deathwing army. I didn't have to buy single new model to maintain my army's competiveness. (I'm going to, though, because some previous non-choices became competive, so props from that I guess....).

Okay, the issue with the current Tau Codex is that there are few units that are actually Viable,

Firewarriors- good
Kroot - not so much

Crisis suits - good
Stealth suits - situational

Vespid - straight out bad
Piranah - only viable if you take a ton of them
Pathfinders - good for markerlight spam
Gun drone squad - usable to fill out a list at best

Skyray- not bad, just not as good as other options
Hammerhead- good
Broadside - good
Sniper drones- okay, just not as good as other options

So changes to railguns isn't the end all some people seem to think. Heck for all we know Broadsides will be given the "rail cannons" Instead of railguns in the new 'dex.

I love how passionate people are on this subject, but if they do nerf railguns, without giving them alternate rules to compensate its going to be the end all for Tau. I would LOVE to see the Riptide if thats what they call it, thats on the same scale as a CSM Defiler, or Flyers that are balanced against say the DA Nephilim.

I'd rather see a solid and Balanced codex like the others that have been released, then an OP rolfstomp codex like some of those out there.

The thing is, a dedicated anti-air unit without Interceptor or ridiculous toughness is a joke.

Either your opponent doesn't bring flyers, and you've wasted a large number of points on a squad that won't really do anything.

Or your opponent zooms in the flyers from reserve and takes out your anti-air with a single alpha strike.

Flyers are always coming in from reserve, so they ALWAYS get the first shot. And there's nowhere on the board you can place units that a flyer can't reach in their first turn.

RogueRegault wrote:
The thing is, a dedicated anti-air unit without Interceptor or ridiculous toughness is a joke.

Either your opponent doesn't bring flyers, and you've wasted a large number of points on a squad that won't really do anything.

Or your opponent zooms in the flyers from reserve and takes out your anti-air with a single alpha strike.

Flyers are always coming in from reserve, so they ALWAYS get the first shot. And there's nowhere on the board you can place units that a flyer can't reach in their first turn.

Or you realize that everything points toward Broadsides being able to fire at ground targets at full BS as well, which means that you have a good anti-tank unit that's also a good anti-air unit.

im confused, people saying a nerf to railgun's is good because it will see Broadsides spammed less.... but Tau spam crisis suits, are they going to be nerfed as well to make people spam stealth suit squads?

Before crying broadside spam people should look at the cause, what with hammerheads being easier to knock out of the sky, and sniper drones being lower strength, easier to kill railgun's. The problem isn't the power level its that the other options are undesirable in almost any situation. Here's an idea, if GW are putting Kroot HQ's back in, why not a Kroot Heavy Support, put the Greater Knarloc in the codex, a mid cost Str7 T5 fleeting monstrous creature/beast to enable to codex to be played in a totally different way, and whilst were on the subject, how about shoving some more viable options into the elite category? and for Gods sake either take out the ethereal's as a combat option or make them do something useful.

I mean seriously all the fluff we have shows that ethereal's rarely make the military decisions and normally defer to the fire caste commanders, why is such a high priority target even on the battlefield?


Just my 50 pence worth

danp164 wrote:
im confused, people saying a nerf to railgun's is good because it will see Broadsides spammed less.... but Tau spam crisis suits, are they going to be nerfed as well to make people spam stealth suit squads?

Before crying broadside spam people should look at the cause, what with hammerheads being easier to knock out of the sky, and sniper drones being lower strength, easier to kill railgun's. The problem isn't the power level its that the other options are undesirable in almost any situation. Here's an idea, if GW are putting Kroot HQ's back in, why not a Kroot Heavy Support, put the Greater Knarloc in the codex, a mid cost Str7 T5 fleeting monstrous creature/beast to enable to codex to be played in a totally different way, and whilst were on the subject, how about shoving some more viable options into the elite category? and for Gods sake either take out the ethereal's as a combat option or make them do something useful.

I mean seriously all the fluff we have shows that ethereal's rarely make the military decisions and normally defer to the fire caste commanders, why is such a high priority target even on the battlefield?


Just my 50 pence worth

well for that matter why our skyrays that fluff wise IS our anti air unit no sky fire. (at least right now) though speaking of which, i wonder if they will give skyrays sky fire, at which point our AA is kinda redundant.

Backfire wrote:
New Dark Angels codex did not invalidate anything from my Deathwing army. I didn't have to buy single new model to maintain my army's competiveness. (I'm going to, though, because some previous non-choices became competive, so props from that I guess....).

Same thing went with CSM. Bikes, Oblits, CSM, Plaguemarines, ect. seemed to be just fine now. Deamon Princes would actually get a buff from the Tau update, which they probably had the plan to limit the S10 weapons available. The key part about CSM though is that people weren't forced to buy Heldrakes and the Fiends, they just presented them as nice add ons. That's what I want the Riptide to be. A nice add on, not a necessity. That's probably my biggest concern is that in the trend of balanced codex and plentiful options, is that Tau would be stuck with a monobuild again.

I was wondering about the old rumor about the Tau ally chart modifiers. Maybe we see Railguns getting toned down because Kroot and Vespid wouldn't be taking up the Tau FOC but rather filling a smaller more restricted Ally chart. If that's the case then the possibility of running an all Kroot army wouldn't seem possible.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Or you realize that everything points toward Broadsides being able to fire at ground targets at full BS as well, which means that you have a good anti-tank unit that's also a good anti-air unit.

The problem isn't ballistic skill, the problem is that S8 is mediocre against proper tanks, so much so that other armies even get S8 firepower for free like in every Tactical Squad ever. Yes skyfire is interesting but at 25 points and on a T4 platform without interceptor they will just get obliterated by the flyers when they arrive anyways. If that 25 point upgrade gives skyfire AND interceptor then the new Broadsides would really be a great niche unit but as currently rumored they are simply a much weaker version of their prior selves for no (as of yet disclosed) good reason. Trying to promote versatility in a codex is NOT an excuse for completely undermining the purpose of a unit; that exercise is reserved for poor balance teams and calculated marketing decisions focused on selling everyone knew models.

 Desubot wrote:
well for that matter why our skyrays that fluff wise IS our anti air unit no sky fire. (at least right now) though speaking of which, i wonder if they will give skyrays sky fire, at which point our AA is kinda redundant.

The current word is that Sky Rays will have a way to be focused on anti-air.

In the Grim darkness of 6th Edition Tau, the only way to kill land raiders is to play chicken with a crisis suit.....


Shas'o Kais: " I got a BAAAAD feeling about this!"

The ultimate sacrifice for the greater good no?

It's Happening! Now my codex-less tau army will be relevant! I hope it's in may, I have no money for april.

I wonder if the Rail Cannon will be better than S10 AP1. The way it's described makes it seem like it should be even better than it already is, but that the rules only supported so much. Now, 6 years on and two editions later, perhaps we'll see the true rail gun not just maintain its supremacy but actually get better.

RogueRegault wrote:
The thing is, a dedicated anti-air unit without Interceptor or ridiculous toughness is a joke.

Either your opponent doesn't bring flyers, and you've wasted a large number of points on a squad that won't really do anything.

Or your opponent zooms in the flyers from reserve and takes out your anti-air with a single alpha strike.

Flyers are always coming in from reserve, so they ALWAYS get the first shot. And there's nowhere on the board you can place units that a flyer can't reach in their first turn.

How is this different from devastators/havocks with missile launchers and skyfire? none of them have interceptor, they need to suck up the flyers first shots as well... (havoks are 175 pts for 4 ML w Skyfire + champion) so not exactly cheap.

I doubt it. I feel like we'll see more Rail Rifles spread around, but I don't think we'll see Rail Cannons on anything other than Hammerheads.

The real issue, IMO, is that Tau have exactly 4 units to deal with AV13/14, only one of which can do so from range. That's really not all that unusual - meltaguns, EMP, and Haywire grenades are the general weapons of choice against AV13/14 anyways, isn't it? Most armies don't rely on long range AT to take out Landraiders, do they? Tau were pretty unique in that regard - and we still have some capability to engage heavy armor at range, using Hammerheads. Is it less reliable than what we have? Sure. Still better than most? Absolutely.

What we really need is more units that can take special weapons, period. Someone else remarked earlier that all our killing gets done in out Elite and HS slots - it's true, and that's another way in which Tau are unique as a codex. My estimation is that we'll see that changing with the new codex. We'll probably see more ways to take a variety of weapons - though probably not S10 railguns - in a variety of new FoC slots, and that will make it less necessary to rely on S10 shots from range.

Yes, this means we will need to adapt a bit from what we currently do. Personally, I like that (especially since my current army has no Broadsides anyway).

ausYenLoWang wrote:
How is this different from devastators/havocks with missile launchers and skyfire? none of them have interceptor, they need to suck up the flyers first shots as well...

Devastators/havocs have more bodies to survive the flyer alpha-strike and so while broadsides will outshoot them when both are kitted out with skyfire, devastators/havocs have a better chance of surviving the flyer and returning fire.

Also, if both units forego skyfire completely, the devastators/havocs far outshoot the broadsides against ground targets for less points.

Can you start to see why people who chose to play Tau for their ranged combat mastery are upset both from a gameplay and thematic standpoint?

Veskrashen wrote:
Tau were pretty unique in that regard - and we still have some capability to engage heavy armor at range, using Hammerheads. Is it less reliable than what we have? Sure. Still better than most? Absolutely.

I would say that the complete lack of a useful assault phase army-wide as well as the lack of those heavy-hitting close combat weapons that pop heavy armor more than accounts for the Tau having S10 shooting on a Broadside. We trade an entire combat phase for that slight edge in shooting and now, according to the rumors, that is being taken away.

This is not to say that Tau should get close combat help, they shouldn't, but that forfeit of 1/3rd of the game should translate into monstrous ranged weaponry. The rumored update to Broadsides betrays that in the worst way possible and, as the book isn't out, we are left wondering how they will make it up to us. We aren't afraid of change, we are afraid of poor game design and poor balance which we all know GW is very capable of. For now we are left in the dark just hoping that GW was wise enough to compensate for the nerf to the Broadside.

Veskrashen wrote:
I doubt it. I feel like we'll see more Rail Rifles spread around, but I don't think we'll see Rail Cannons on anything other than Hammerheads.

The real issue, IMO, is that Tau have exactly 4 units to deal with AV13/14, only one of which can do so from range. That's really not all that unusual - meltaguns, EMP, and Haywire grenades are the general weapons of choice against AV13/14 anyways, isn't it? Most armies don't rely on long range AT to take out Landraiders, do they? Tau were pretty unique in that regard - and we still have some capability to engage heavy armor at range, using Hammerheads. Is it less reliable than what we have? Sure. Still better than most? Absolutely.

What I am personally afraid is that if Broadsides are nerfed, then most players are forced to run triple Railheads to get at least some high-strength, long-range shooting - which is not needed just against Land Raiders or Battlewagons, but also countering such threats as Psyrifleman-spam. Leaving us in same situation where we are in current codex: there is only one viable Heavy support choice, no matter how good other units for that slot are, you have to take what your army is otherwise missing.

People are saying "so what if Broadsides lose S10, just take Railheads!" But for what slots we are then supposed to take Sky Rays, Sniper Drones or whatever new units the book might have?

Backfire wrote:
People are saying "so what if Broadsides lose S10, just take Railheads!" But for what slots we are then supposed to take Sky Rays, Sniper Drones or whatever new units the book might have?

Not to mention that Railgun Hammerheads as they function now are MASSIVE gambles when firing the S10 solid shot. Broadsides were so prevalent because they were the only (sort-of) reliable source of heavy anti-tank damage. Railgun Hammerheads are great but mostly for their extra weapons and submunitions.

Of course the new Railcannon on a Hammerhead could change to make it more attractive but there is that chance that they leave it the same and just rename it.

We also may see more anti-tank options that we haven't heard about in the rumours. We have heard next to nothing about crisis suit weaponry for example.

 SonicPara wrote:

ausYenLoWang wrote:
How is this different from devastators/havocks with missile launchers and skyfire? none of them have interceptor, they need to suck up the flyers first shots as well...

Devastators/havocs have more bodies to survive the flyer alpha-strike and so while broadsides will outshoot them when both are kitted out with skyfire, devastators/havocs have a better chance of surviving the flyer and returning fire.
Also, if both units forego skyfire completely, the devastators/havocs far outshoot the broadsides against ground targets for less points.

A 5-man Devastator squad with 4xML has 5 wounds with a 3+ save. 3 man Broadsides have 6 wounds with a 2+ save. The only flyers that Broadsides suffer more casualties from than Devastators, on average, are Vendettas and Doom Scythes - and if you're in cover, you're likely losing the same amount of firepower from each. You're right that ML Devs are cheaper than Broadsides in both configurations - though if Broadsides sans Skyfire are only 60pts each as rumored, and have SMS, they'll put out more firepower than the Devs will. I think you're overstating the case, by quite a bit.

 SonicPara wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:
Tau were pretty unique in that regard - and we still have some capability to engage heavy armor at range, using Hammerheads. Is it less reliable than what we have? Sure. Still better than most? Absolutely.

I would say that the complete lack of a useful assault phase army-wide as well as the lack of those heavy-hitting close combat weapons that pop heavy armor more than accounts for the Tau having S10 shooting on a Broadside. We trade an entire combat phase for that slight edge in shooting and now, according to the rumors, that is being taken away.
This is not to say that Tau should get close combat help, they shouldn't, but that forfeit of 1/3rd of the game should translate into monstrous ranged weaponry. The rumored update to Broadsides betrays that in the worst way possible and, as the book isn't out, we are left wondering how they will make it up to us. We aren't afraid of change, we are afraid of poor game design and poor balance which we all know GW is very capable of. For now we are left in the dark just hoping that GW was wise enough to compensate for the nerf to the Broadside.

I grant that not being able to do jack in the assault phase is something that needs to be compensated for - and I think that we are getting those compensations. Look at the rumored rules allowing more shots if we stand still (that may mean 2 TL shots from each Broadside, which definitely changes things). Look at the fact that we may get better Overwatch - at higher BS, and more units pouring fire into oncoming gribblies. Oh, and the Riptide will be a MC if the rumors are correct - and will therefore be throwing around AP2 hits standard, and will be able to Smash as well. Will it be a CC monster of Doom? Probably not. But I bet it'll be able to open tanks like tin cans in CC regardless.