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Looks like suits can take 3 of the same weapon to get a twin linked and non twin linked version, piling on more shots. With the cheaper base cost of the suits along with 8 pts of upgrades included free (multi tracker and bsf), overall suit costs will be 15-20 pts cheaper.

Can you have an XV 8(insert forge world model here)-05? It says on the errata you can put it on any Shas'o or shas'el. This will be interesting.

So I am over here laughing my a$$ off at all these naysayers. Each one seems to be looking at individual aspects per section and calling them bad. Cool go right ahead. Have your negative outlook, its fun to watch and laugh as you are proven wrong over and over and over and over (hell you get my point)

First off, why does it even matter with the changes? Just because you lost your favorite toy and LOVED being called cheese means nothing. Get over it, this codex is not 5th ed Chaos, you are getting SERIOUS improvements that are backed up by valid nerfs. HELL I think this is one of the more balanced codex to date!

Remember this is a GAMES WORKSHOP GAME! You get your cake but you cant eat it remember. The fact that Tau is not a great all round army (when not talking about assault) is amazing!

On to the mathhammer. Good on you. Great job finding the likely probability of things. That is fine, really it is. Have you considered that probability is an ongoing thing throughout an entire game? Lets take a few games I played. As a Tau, Blood Angels, and 'Nid player I have played games where things roll my way when needed. I have seen terminators fail 8 out of 10 2+ saves, I have seen Rhino's survive 9 old Broadside attacks with nothing more loss than a weapon or getting immobolized, only to repair that in the next turn.

This is a game where random chance and Luck are a thing. You can dress it up, call it what you like but it changes nothing in the end. All probability is is the chance of something happening. If you say a thing could happen, it will at a point.

As for the kool-aid. . . MMMMMMMMMMMMMM TASTES GREAT!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Looks like suits can take 3 of the same weapon to get a twin linked and non twin linked version, piling on more shots. With the cheaper base cost of the suits along with 8 pts of upgrades included free (multi tracker and bsf), overall suit costs will be 15-20 pts cheaper.

Ha I can see suicide 3 fusionblaster suits being quite popular if you can actually take 3 weapons.

 Lysenis wrote:
So I am over here laughing my a$$ off at all these naysayers. Each one seems to be looking at individual aspects per section and calling them bad. Cool go right ahead. Have your negative outlook, its fun to watch and laugh as you are proven wrong over and over and over and over (hell you get my point)

First off, why does it even matter with the changes? Just because you lost your favorite toy and LOVED being called cheese means nothing. Get over it, this codex is not 5th ed Chaos, you are getting SERIOUS improvements that are backed up by valid nerfs. HELL I think this is one of the more balanced codex to date!

Remember this is a GAMES WORKSHOP GAME! You get your cake but you cant eat it remember. The fact that Tau is not a great all round army (when not talking about assault) is amazing!

On to the mathhammer. Good on you. Great job finding the likely probability of things. That is fine, really it is. Have you considered that probability is an ongoing thing throughout an entire game? Lets take a few games I played. As a Tau, Blood Angels, and 'Nid player I have played games where things roll my way when needed. I have seen terminators fail 8 out of 10 2+ saves, I have seen Rhino's survive 9 old Broadside attacks with nothing more loss than a weapon or getting immobolized, only to repair that in the next turn.

This is a game where random chance and Luck are a thing. You can dress it up, call it what you like but it changes nothing in the end. All probability is is the chance of something happening. If you say a thing could happen, it will at a point.

As for the kool-aid. . . MMMMMMMMMMMMMM TASTES GREAT!

Don't be too angry dude, people complain like this with every codex that has come out.

Had a look at the background section of the book and read most of it. And I must say I am very pleased.

Vetrock did a great job rewriting and extending all info and developing it further respectfully.
Tau are neither "peace loving hippies" nor "space nazis with a better PR". Both "no meatshields" and "conquering planets" are in, the first ethereal appearance is not "knocking everyone out with pheromones" anymore but much more realistic. The timeline paradox of Puretide/Farsight/Shadowsun is resolved logically. The way planets are integrated into the Tau Empire is detailed, new Xeno allies introduced with names and a few details (in background only). Taros campaign mentioned several times. Nice addition is small pics of Tau Space Stations needed for colonisation. Only minor things I am not happy with, like Darkstriders name and Earth caste experimenting with bad stuff


So all in all

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:
So I am over here laughing my a$$ off at all these naysayers. Each one seems to be looking at individual aspects per section and calling them bad. Cool go right ahead. Have your negative outlook, its fun to watch and laugh as you are proven wrong over and over and over and over (hell you get my point)

First off, why does it even matter with the changes? Just because you lost your favorite toy and LOVED being called cheese means nothing. Get over it, this codex is not 5th ed Chaos, you are getting SERIOUS improvements that are backed up by valid nerfs. HELL I think this is one of the more balanced codex to date!

Remember this is a GAMES WORKSHOP GAME! You get your cake but you cant eat it remember. The fact that Tau is not a great all round army (when not talking about assault) is amazing!

On to the mathhammer. Good on you. Great job finding the likely probability of things. That is fine, really it is. Have you considered that probability is an ongoing thing throughout an entire game? Lets take a few games I played. As a Tau, Blood Angels, and 'Nid player I have played games where things roll my way when needed. I have seen terminators fail 8 out of 10 2+ saves, I have seen Rhino's survive 9 old Broadside attacks with nothing more loss than a weapon or getting immobolized, only to repair that in the next turn.

This is a game where random chance and Luck are a thing. You can dress it up, call it what you like but it changes nothing in the end. All probability is is the chance of something happening. If you say a thing could happen, it will at a point.

As for the kool-aid. . . MMMMMMMMMMMMMM TASTES GREAT!

Don't be too angry dude, people complain like this with every codex that has come out.

There is no anger, I am laughing at all of this. People are so worked up for nothing imho.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:
So I am over here laughing my a$$ off at all these naysayers. Each one seems to be looking at individual aspects per section and calling them bad. Cool go right ahead. Have your negative outlook, its fun to watch and laugh as you are proven wrong over and over and over and over (hell you get my point)

First off, why does it even matter with the changes? Just because you lost your favorite toy and LOVED being called cheese means nothing. Get over it, this codex is not 5th ed Chaos, you are getting SERIOUS improvements that are backed up by valid nerfs. HELL I think this is one of the more balanced codex to date!

Remember this is a GAMES WORKSHOP GAME! You get your cake but you cant eat it remember. The fact that Tau is not a great all round army (when not talking about assault) is amazing!

On to the mathhammer. Good on you. Great job finding the likely probability of things. That is fine, really it is. Have you considered that probability is an ongoing thing throughout an entire game? Lets take a few games I played. As a Tau, Blood Angels, and 'Nid player I have played games where things roll my way when needed. I have seen terminators fail 8 out of 10 2+ saves, I have seen Rhino's survive 9 old Broadside attacks with nothing more loss than a weapon or getting immobolized, only to repair that in the next turn.

This is a game where random chance and Luck are a thing. You can dress it up, call it what you like but it changes nothing in the end. All probability is is the chance of something happening. If you say a thing could happen, it will at a point.

As for the kool-aid. . . MMMMMMMMMMMMMM TASTES GREAT!

Don't be too angry dude, people complain like this with every codex that has come out.

He doesn't seem angry to me, he just seems like he's telling off the naysayers as a bunch of idiots, and I'm inclined to agree.

As for a point of discussion: The D-pod took a bit of a points increase, but if it retains the same stats is it justified? It was a bit insane the amount of value for points you were getting. I know some people are high on vehicle-less tau but I'm still curious about how people feel about that.

Is it me or does that say the commander may choose 4 hardpoints?

also, notice all the hardpoints have been changed to may not must Might be interesting to see some 1 or 2 weapon cheap battlesuit builds

also the decoy launcher gives a 4+ invun at 3 pts...but doesnt work against some form of weapon, too blurry though!

 Kroothawk wrote:
Had a look at the background section of the book and read most of it. And I must say I am very pleased.

Vetrock did a great job rewriting and extending all info and developing it further respectfully.
Tau are neither "peace loving hippies" nor "space nazis with a better PR". Both "no meatshields" and "conquering planets" are in, the first ethereal appearance is not "knocking everyone out with pheromones" anymore but much more realistic. The timeline paradox of Puretide/Farsight/Shadowsun is resolved logically. The way planets are integrated into the Tau Empire is detailed, new Xeno allies introduced with names and a few details (in background only). Taros campaign mentioned several times. Nice addition is small pics of Tau Space Stations needed for colonisation. Only minor things I am not happy with, like Darkstriders name and Earth caste experimenting with bad stuff

Spoiler:

(like trying to use Supernovas as weapons against planet systems)

So all in all

 Kroothawk wrote:
Had a look at the background section of the book and read most of it. And I must say I am very pleased.

Vetrock did a great job rewriting and extending all info and developing it further respectfully.
Tau are neither "peace loving hippies" nor "space nazis with a better PR". Both "no meatshields" and "conquering planets" are in, the first ethereal appearance is not "knocking everyone out with pheromones" anymore but much more realistic. The timeline paradox of Puretide/Farsight/Shadowsun is resolved logically. The way planets are integrated into the Tau Empire is detailed, new Xeno allies introduced with names and a few details (in background only). Taros campaign mentioned several times. Nice addition is small pics of Tau Space Stations needed for colonisation. Only minor things I am not happy with, like Darkstriders name and Earth caste experimenting with bad stuff

Spoiler:

(like trying to use Supernovas as weapons against planet systems)

So all in all

Can you expand on what you read? I'd really like to know how ethereals "control" society as well as how they are represented compared to the IoM.

Looks like Bodyguard are still stuck at 2 per Commander for a maximum of 3. Contradicts early post that they went up to a maximum of 4.

That's a real shame. Elites are just too crowded. They should have moved Stealth to FA or allowed a HQ to unlock suits as troops to free up the log jam.

Anyone got a english copy of the codex early?

The fuzzy photos a page ago look like english

Looks pretty clear from the pictures that a marker light hit (counter) can be used (expended / removed after use) by a Tau unit which is shooting at the said target to grant itself special abilities for example +1 BS, and doesn't give a flat +1 BS to every Tau unit firing at the lit target unit. A single Tau unit ignoring the cover saves of one enemy target unit seems to cost 2 marker light counters. Marker lights seem quite rubbishy.

As for a point of discussion: The D-pod took a bit of a points increase, but if it retains the same stats is it justified? It was a bit insane the amount of value for points you were getting. I know some people are high on vehicle-less tau but I'm still curious about how people feel about that.

I actually really like the Tau vehicles. They high-tech skimmers really help round out the army and go a long way to ensuring that the Tau are not just about the battlesuits. The multitrackers in particular make hammerheads a real joy to play. Its one of the reasons that I consider the loss of the vehicle multitracker as one of the worst changes in the new codex (if it is true), as they will no longer be able to keep pace with our suits.

 Therion wrote:
Looks pretty clear from the pictures that a marker light hit (counter) can be used (expended / removed after use) by a Tau unit which is shooting at the said target to grant itself special abilities for example +1 BS, and doesn't give a flat +1 BS to every Tau unit firing at the lit target unit. A single Tau unit ignoring the cover saves of one enemy target unit seems to cost 2 marker light counters. Marker lights seem quite rubbishy.

Repeating myself what I wrote reading from my codex (because anyone who says markerlights are rubish deserves to be slapped ) :

Each hit on a target adds a markerlight "token". Immediately before a unit from Codex: Tau Empire shoots that at a target that has one or more markerligt counters, it can declare it is using one or more of the markerlight counters. A unit may combine any number of markerlight abilities providing that there are enough counters:
- Pinpoint (1+ markerlights) - All models firing at the target as part of this shooting attack gain a bonus to their BS for the duration of the shooting attack.. The size of this bonus is equal to the number of markerlight counters expended on this ability. Pinpoint can increase the BS of Snap Shots and overwatch.
- Scour: (2 markerlights) all weapons fired at the target as part of this shooting attack gain the ignore cover special rule.
- Seeker (1+ markerlight) - For each markerlight spent on this ability, the unit immediately fires a single seeker missile (if it has one) in addition to any other weapons it is permitted to fire. A seeker missile fired in this way:
- Does not need line of sight
- Must be fire at the same target as the vehicle's other weapons
- IS resolved at BS 5
- Has the Ignore Cover special rule
- Does not reduce the number of weapons a vehicle can fire at it's full BS
- Does count towards the limit of 2 missiles that a flyer can fire each turn.

In the end, it is left open how they "control" the society, the few Imperial "tests" coming to no conclusion, as test objects are rare
While at some point, the "could order suicide" is in, at other times, the savanna tribes (later Fire Warriors) take longest to be convinced to stop Mont'au. There is no automatism like mind control, although later on a mind control worm species makes friends with ethereals In the first meeting, it is more "authority" and "convincing the leaders in a meeting" than magic. Although where ethereals came from is again left open.

Aliens are indeed respected, but Tau are first among equals. Tau have patience in talking other governments in joining the Tau Empire, sometimes for decades. If a military operation is necessary, after it tau are "surprisingly civil". But they definitely expand their influence.

As said, everything is expanded, more subtle, more "realistic" and worth reading.

On Earth caste:

Also seems like Kroot are able to utilize markers as well. I wonder if ethereal buffs effect them too

I have a feeling the advanced targeting system will be the vehicle multi tracker, just a new name to avoid confusion

 4oursword wrote:
The thing that hugely annoys me is Darkstrider's name: El'Myamoto. Seems a little too overt of a asian reference to have an actual Japanese name. Just me who feels like this?

Yeah, it's like they mixed Spanish and Japanese. El=the; Miyamoto could be a reference to Miyamoto Musashi, the great swordsman. Miyamoto could mean "base of a shrine".

My wife, who is Japanese, laughed.

Bobug wrote:
I have a feeling the advanced targeting system will be the vehicle multi tracker, just a new name to avoid confusion

From the codex: Advanced Targetting system - Any To Hit roll of a 6 made in the Shooting phase by a model with an advanced targetting system is a Precision Shot. If a character has an advanced targetting system, any To Hit roll of 5 or 6 they make in the Shooting Phase is a Precision Shot.

Ah my bad oh well :<

Bobug wrote:
I have a feeling the advanced targeting system will be the vehicle multi tracker, just a new name to avoid confusion

it gives the vehicle the precision shot special rule.

Counter fire defense systems allow a model to over watch at bs2 and all suits have access.

do we have any clue on whether pathfinders are cheaper yet?

 Therion wrote:
Looks pretty clear from the pictures that a marker light hit (counter) can be used (expended / removed after use) by a Tau unit which is shooting at the said target to grant itself special abilities for example +1 BS, and doesn't give a flat +1 BS to every Tau unit firing at the lit target unit. A single Tau unit ignoring the cover saves of one enemy target unit seems to cost 2 marker light counters. Marker lights seem quite rubbishy.

Really?

I honestly disagree with you massively - 2 ML negate ALL cover. Not take it down by 1 Cover per hit. 2 MLS take away that 4+ ADL save completely or 3+ Fortification save. Gone to ground behind ADL??? I don't care - I only need to spend 2 ML instead of 5 (as per old Codex if I remember). This is immense IMO.

Awwww yis!

I love how the Neuroweb System Jammer and the Puretide Engram Neurochip are a way of almost having a sort of spell casting, but without all that pesky warp crap, and (in case of the Puretide Neurochip, we get to choose the effect!)

BWAAAHAHAAA!

 agnosto wrote:

 4oursword wrote:
The thing that hugely annoys me is Darkstrider's name: El'Myamoto. Seems a little too overt of a asian reference to have an actual Japanese name. Just me who feels like this?

Yeah, it's like they mixed Spanish and Japanese. El=the; Miyamoto could be a reference to Miyamoto Musashi, the great swordsman. Miyamoto could mean "base of a shrine".

My wife, who is Japanese, laughed.

Considering the only thing original in the way GW names its characters is the sheer stupidity and ridiculousness of it, I'm fairly certain this is a Musashi pun and they just added the EL as a Shas'EL/Tau reference. The other option is they thought Lion'EL Johnson as a really funny and clever version (zz) of Lionel Johnson needed a 2013 version in EL'Miyamoto.

 gr1m_dan wrote:

 Therion wrote:
Looks pretty clear from the pictures that a marker light hit (counter) can be used (expended / removed after use) by a Tau unit which is shooting at the said target to grant itself special abilities for example +1 BS, and doesn't give a flat +1 BS to every Tau unit firing at the lit target unit. A single Tau unit ignoring the cover saves of one enemy target unit seems to cost 2 marker light counters. Marker lights seem quite rubbishy.

Really?

I honestly disagree with you massively - 2 ML negate ALL cover. Not take it down by 1 Cover per hit. 2 MLS take away that 4+ ADL save completely or 3+ Fortification save. Gone to ground behind ADL??? I don't care - I only need to spend 2 ML instead of 5 (as per old Codex if I remember). This is immense IMO.

Agreed. I was willing to use pathfinders in the old codex when I had to buy a devilfish for them they couldn't use. And I would happily spend markerlight tokens at a 1 for 1 to kill coversaves. With the new rules for markerlights they just got even better. The only thing I am worried about now is keeping my pathfinders alive with only 5+ armor saves.

Now 1 100pt pathfinder squads average shooting will allow a 200pt unit to fire at bs 5 and ignores cover. If i am buffing firewarriors vs marines that same squad will cover 2 squads of firewarriors shooting.

Yes, I noticed that with the remove cover ability of markerlights, it's all or nothing.

It seems you can't spend one markerlight and reduce cover by 1, but you can spend 2 markerlights and reduce ALL of the cover.

So a bit less flexability, but often very much worth it.

(The IG I play against loves his 3+ bunkers.)