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So about the kroot snipers, if they buy the upgrade does it replace their basic guns or can they use both profiles.

As someone who has been playing tau consistently since 5th edition (no, I did not put mine on the shelf like so many others) I am very excited about the new dex.

My complaints are actually very few, and mainly about the lack of FW models (yeah, I get it - I am a business guy, its an internal finance thing at gw...still sucks though).

We have a lot of info (and quite a bit missing) but we have enough to start thinking about what some of this means.
NOTE: The stuff I bring up, which others were percieved as bring up in a negative light (and some were) I am not complaining about, I am making a tactical analysis, and thinking about how we, like our beloved blueskins, can adapt...

The Big Observations:
Options - we have options. If anything comes out of this, I am VERY happy that it looks like we have a lot of options. The new HQ's, the drones, the warlord traits - this all appears to indicate that we have a lot of styles of play - will all be viable? who knows. But I know this, we have a lot more things we can do, and that alone makes this a great new book.

Core Functions - Many of our core/iconic capabilities - are there and intact (more or less?) - The hammerhead and its big gun, stealth suits, seeker missiles, crisis teams jumping around, firewarriors and the S5AP 30" rifle of happiness, drones and most importantly - markerlights. Oh, yes.

A few nice surprises
- vespid might actually be useful... I love the little guys, and am eager to try them out (I have 30 of them....go figure).
- Ethereals - hmmm....they don't suck. Well, prolly not. A few area buffs, a few special rules, not bad. Sounds like these might actually be useful for constructing various lists (see options, above).
- Kroot snipers - um....sure? thats a nice new thing. Don't know what gap/problem they were trying to solve (especially with sniper drones now being sniper as well) but...um...sure, I will take it....this opens up a lot of new ideas.
- drones and more drones - the new pathfinder drones are nifty - and the new missile, and other drones, and their accessibility - are going to add a lot of options (for those not keeping up options = good).
- The riptide - two things - this is surprising unit - and might be a great pile of good - not sure yet exactly what role it will fill and if it will do it effectively for the points, but hey, it looks cool (some would disagree) doing it. yes please.
- Skyfire accessibility - this was a neat surprise. Again, more options.
- Character abilities - from the tank DJ, to the fireblade to Darkstrider - again, cool options to help keep lists from all looking the same - or that is the hope.
- Minor buffs here and there - the burst cannon might be useful at 4 shots, the sms 30", lots of intersting special gear - the list goes on - lots of things to learn, and figure out how to incorporate.

Clearly we have a lot of opportunities for synergy and "finesse" play. This is a good thing.

Challenges
- Not all is cake and ice cream, besides learning all the new toys, there will be a few challenges that we will have to figure out what they mean...are they just ....different? Or will they require major tactical adjustments or hard lessons.

- Broadsides - oh boy, the banter and math debates. Regardless of how well these guys do against flyers - one thing is undeniably clear - they are not as effective as they once were against heavy armor - period.
What does this mean? It means the gap has to be taken up somewhere, and while there might be some options in other methods (hoping for glances, riptide overcharge, S7 torrent, fusion danger squads, etc.) one thing is very clear - the signature tau methodology of low volume, yet exceptionally high quality (S10AP1) long ranged firepower - that paradigm - is gone. We will never have 6 (or 9 for crazies!) twin linked long ranged S10 shots again.
What does this mean? It means just as we had to adapt to 6th, we have to adapt to this. Each player will have to figure out what this means - in their local scene in what they face on the boards - and in how they can leverage the new tools the codex has - tools that may be better or worse - but are clearly different.

- Pathfinders - a 5+ save. Just as the 3+ save of the marine is so critical in its survive-ability (due to common ap values, and just plain statistics) 5+ armor is well, toast. Between the rate of failure, and the fact that the majority of common side arms in the game are ap5 - our little buddies are going to need to be used very carefully. Given the value of markerlights, and the perceived value of their other toys...these guys are going to be a primary target. Players who do not plan for this, will find themselves getting some very hard lessons indeed - so start thinking now on how to manage this critical resource.

- Kroot - While getting a new role....what about the role they filled before - a CC unit. Well, they are just....well, lets just say, we have to think about how we are going to use them. Personally, I LOVE my kroot, and i hate to think that I might just have to look for allies elsewhere for some CC love....only time will tell. One thing is obvious - S3 is a bit hit - combine that with the rumor that the rifle is no longer a double weapon (well, not confirmed yet) - if this part is true - the use of kroot will require a lot more deliberation than before.

- Devil fish - sure, the burst cannon is a bit better, and they might have some warger upgrades to make them awesome high point transports. Well, the challenge is, tau could have really benefited from some cheap transport options, even if they were worse than the fish (remember all that about how good options are, from above?). So, while we did not have to pay the pathfinder tax anymore, we still don't have a cheap transport option - so use the fish with great care (when will these guys learn how to shoot out a hatch? Apparently top hatches are only for sightseeing tank commanders....).

- Targeting arrays - so, these might be in there, but a lot of reading, spanish translation and sifting through the entrails of a goat have given sign that we just might not have these precious things. Sure, you can make up for it with makerlights - but that is different - we will have to adapt and use markers very carefully - marker priority becomes much more critical now - in a way, this is a good thing - this kind of "finesse" and smart play is what separates the successful tau player from the soon to sell his army and go back to his space wolves list band-wagoneer players.

- The flyers - well, meh is the new black for flyers in 6th it seems (oh why gw, have you not adjusted the scythe and the vendetta yet? Don't answer that, not in this thread at least). Ok, The fighter is not bad...its just not strightforward - maybe this is a good thing. Utilizing the turret and seekers on this thing may be the key - so think about the angles and plan your moves - especially with our poor BS skill.
- The bomber - ok, um....I am not really sure if this flying whilrwind is just our pyrovore, or if it will take a lot more work how to figure it out - dunno - I suspect the drones are the key to its value....this could be an opportunity for thinking tau players. Or it could be just a goofy model I put on my book case. Dunno.

Well, that is enough for now. Overall, I think the book is strong and have a lot of high hopes.
We have a lot of new options to play with, new models to paint, and new tau players to mock - oh, and go write forgeworld and tell them they make totally cool stuff, and if they would please update their rules for 6th - and um, fix the remora please.

see you on the table...

Well said.

There are very few vehicles with AV14 on all sides and they are expensive units.

The problem is going to be how to integrate the improved and new units into an effective tabletop force. There is almost too much choice now.

@Davethepak

I respect that, no real naysaying just great points balanced by the challanges you see. I like it!

Killkrazy has a point as well. There is almost to much in the option categoery. It will take time before figuring out optimal lists.

Very nice post davethepak, I agree on everything you've brought up. I haven't played Tau since 3rd edition, and this is a very exciting time to get back into the army! For the Farsight Enclave!

Yikes, I can see a lot of bile aimed at the new Tau rules from players.

I've managed to get s look at the book and I don't see why.

It's a vast improvement on the last book and I think it's the best codex for 6th so far. It's very well written and there are sooooo many builds to an army that only really had one viable one.

Call me old fashioned, but the more I read the codex, the more overall disapointed I am about it. The 3rd edition to 4th edition codex replacement brought forth a lot of new ways to deal with current problems that tau had to be a viable army. Not a power army by any means, but able to hold up with the best of them. The codex held well through 4th and even 5th. Won many tourneys in 5th with tau, and still are winning them in 6th.

I am sure I will figure out the new codex, but it really seams like I have to cookie cutter a list more than ever. I have to have a rail head to take out heavy armor. I will need to take armor 5 pathfinders to make my suits worth while. And I will have to take suicide suits/pirana for the chance of IG parking lot/ heavy raider lists.

I can't explain it, but the more I read the codex the more I get a rotten taste in my mouth. I keep thinking of the more common than not lists at the tourneys and getting more and more confused/depresed at the strtegies I now need to employ to at least be competitive.

jazzpaintball wrote:
Call me old fashioned, but the more I read the codex, the more overall disapointed I am about it. The 3rd edition to 4th edition codex replacement brought forth a lot of new ways to deal with current problems that tau had to be a viable army. Not a power army by any means, but able to hold up with the best of them. The codex held well through 4th and even 5th. Won many tourneys in 5th with tau, and still are winning them in 6th.

I am sure I will figure out the new codex, but it really seams like I have to cookie cutter a list more than ever. I have to have a rail head to take out heavy armor. I will need to take armor 5 pathfinders to make my suits worth while. And I will have to take suicide suits/pirana for the chance of IG parking lot/ heavy raider lists.

I can't explain it, but the more I read the codex the more I get a rotten taste in my mouth. I keep thinking of the more common than not lists at the tourneys and getting more and more confused/depresed at the strtegies I now need to employ to at least be competitive.

You should stop wanting your cakeand ice cream and just be happy with the cake. Tau have been buffed and nerfed respectively ACROSS the board but have been gimped in no real area. I mean your dex could be worse. . . Tyranid worse. . .

Options Options Options is the name of the New game for Tau.

Everyone seems to be upset that Pathfinders are fragile......rail rifles, markerlights and probably the ion rifle shoot at least 30". Shouldnt be too hard to keep them at least somewhat safe. but thats also why you may take 3 squads of 12 of them just to make sure your covered lol

 Lysenis wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:
Call me old fashioned, but the more I read the codex, the more overall disapointed I am about it. The 3rd edition to 4th edition codex replacement brought forth a lot of new ways to deal with current problems that tau had to be a viable army. Not a power army by any means, but able to hold up with the best of them. The codex held well through 4th and even 5th. Won many tourneys in 5th with tau, and still are winning them in 6th.

I am sure I will figure out the new codex, but it really seams like I have to cookie cutter a list more than ever. I have to have a rail head to take out heavy armor. I will need to take armor 5 pathfinders to make my suits worth while. And I will have to take suicide suits/pirana for the chance of IG parking lot/ heavy raider lists.

I can't explain it, but the more I read the codex the more I get a rotten taste in my mouth. I keep thinking of the more common than not lists at the tourneys and getting more and more confused/depresed at the strtegies I now need to employ to at least be competitive.

You should stop wanting your cakeand ice cream and just be happy with the cake. Tau have been buffed and nerfed respectively ACROSS the board but have been gimped in no real area. I mean your dex could be worse. . . Tyranid worse. . .

Not a great analogy. I know plenty of good Tyranid players that have done well at competitive level. They are still strong in 6th ed with Iron Army Flyrant and stacked enfeeble destroying deathstars.

I think the real analogy you are looking for is Sisters of Battle worse.

Do we have confirmation on the Kroot rifle not giving an extra attack? I can see "counts as two weapons" getting translated into "two handed weapon" pretty easy. Why would you say its two handed if they don't have another CC anyway? No need.

Two handed implies a boost in strength does it not? Like a power axe maybe? So kroot when down but realy +2S=5?

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Two handed implies a boost in strength does it not? Like a power axe maybe? So kroot when down but realy +2S=5?

No, Two-Handed implies it can't be combined with other weapons for bonus attacks, nothing more. It might give bonus strength, but that's not guaranteed.

I just want to be optimistic and super hopeful! why you gotta be so abruptly disappointing lol

I may be missing how it works, but when using markerlights are they "used up" as in remove the counters, or can multiple units use the same markers?

 Lysenis wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:
Call me old fashioned, but the more I read the codex, the more overall disapointed I am about it. The 3rd edition to 4th edition codex replacement brought forth a lot of new ways to deal with current problems that tau had to be a viable army. Not a power army by any means, but able to hold up with the best of them. The codex held well through 4th and even 5th. Won many tourneys in 5th with tau, and still are winning them in 6th.

I am sure I will figure out the new codex, but it really seams like I have to cookie cutter a list more than ever. I have to have a rail head to take out heavy armor. I will need to take armor 5 pathfinders to make my suits worth while. And I will have to take suicide suits/pirana for the chance of IG parking lot/ heavy raider lists.

I can't explain it, but the more I read the codex the more I get a rotten taste in my mouth. I keep thinking of the more common than not lists at the tourneys and getting more and more confused/depresed at the strtegies I now need to employ to at least be competitive.

You should stop wanting your cakeand ice cream and just be happy with the cake. Tau have been buffed and nerfed respectively ACROSS the board but have been gimped in no real area. I mean your dex could be worse. . . Tyranid worse. . .

So with the new codex, what is your plan for dealing with multiple AV13/14? So far, I feel that we got nerfed there with no real compromise in any other area....

Anyone with suggestions beyond railhead spam and/or suicide Tau suits that I mentioned above?

Riptide Heavy Burst Cannon on Overcharge - Glance av14 to death - That's all I can think of for av14.

davethepak wrote:
As someone who has been playing tau consistently since 5th edition (no, I did not put mine on the shelf like so many others) I am very excited about the new dex.

My complaints are actually very few, and mainly about the lack of FW models (yeah, I get it - I am a business guy, its an internal finance thing at gw...still sucks though).

We have a lot of info (and quite a bit missing) but we have enough to start thinking about what some of this means.
NOTE: The stuff I bring up, which others were percieved as bring up in a negative light (and some were) I am not complaining about, I am making a tactical analysis, and thinking about how we, like our beloved blueskins, can adapt...

The Big Observations:
Options - we have options. If anything comes out of this, I am VERY happy that it looks like we have a lot of options. The new HQ's, the drones, the warlord traits - this all appears to indicate that we have a lot of styles of play - will all be viable? who knows. But I know this, we have a lot more things we can do, and that alone makes this a great new book.

Core Functions - Many of our core/iconic capabilities - are there and intact (more or less?) - The hammerhead and its big gun, stealth suits, seeker missiles, crisis teams jumping around, firewarriors and the S5AP 30" rifle of happiness, drones and most importantly - markerlights. Oh, yes.

A few nice surprises
- vespid might actually be useful... I love the little guys, and am eager to try them out (I have 30 of them....go figure).
- Ethereals - hmmm....they don't suck. Well, prolly not. A few area buffs, a few special rules, not bad. Sounds like these might actually be useful for constructing various lists (see options, above).
- Kroot snipers - um....sure? thats a nice new thing. Don't know what gap/problem they were trying to solve (especially with sniper drones now being sniper as well) but...um...sure, I will take it....this opens up a lot of new ideas.
- drones and more drones - the new pathfinder drones are nifty - and the new missile, and other drones, and their accessibility - are going to add a lot of options (for those not keeping up options = good).
- The riptide - two things - this is surprising unit - and might be a great pile of good - not sure yet exactly what role it will fill and if it will do it effectively for the points, but hey, it looks cool (some would disagree) doing it. yes please.
- Skyfire accessibility - this was a neat surprise. Again, more options.
- Character abilities - from the tank DJ, to the fireblade to Darkstrider - again, cool options to help keep lists from all looking the same - or that is the hope.
- Minor buffs here and there - the burst cannon might be useful at 4 shots, the sms 30", lots of intersting special gear - the list goes on - lots of things to learn, and figure out how to incorporate.

Clearly we have a lot of opportunities for synergy and "finesse" play. This is a good thing.

Challenges
- Not all is cake and ice cream, besides learning all the new toys, there will be a few challenges that we will have to figure out what they mean...are they just ....different? Or will they require major tactical adjustments or hard lessons.

- Broadsides - oh boy, the banter and math debates. Regardless of how well these guys do against flyers - one thing is undeniably clear - they are not as effective as they once were against heavy armor - period.
What does this mean? It means the gap has to be taken up somewhere, and while there might be some options in other methods (hoping for glances, riptide overcharge, S7 torrent, fusion danger squads, etc.) one thing is very clear - the signature tau methodology of low volume, yet exceptionally high quality (S10AP1) long ranged firepower - that paradigm - is gone. We will never have 6 (or 9 for crazies!) twin linked long ranged S10 shots again.
What does this mean? It means just as we had to adapt to 6th, we have to adapt to this. Each player will have to figure out what this means - in their local scene in what they face on the boards - and in how they can leverage the new tools the codex has - tools that may be better or worse - but are clearly different.

- Pathfinders - a 5+ save. Just as the 3+ save of the marine is so critical in its survive-ability (due to common ap values, and just plain statistics) 5+ armor is well, toast. Between the rate of failure, and the fact that the majority of common side arms in the game are ap5 - our little buddies are going to need to be used very carefully. Given the value of markerlights, and the perceived value of their other toys...these guys are going to be a primary target. Players who do not plan for this, will find themselves getting some very hard lessons indeed - so start thinking now on how to manage this critical resource.

- Kroot - While getting a new role....what about the role they filled before - a CC unit. Well, they are just....well, lets just say, we have to think about how we are going to use them. Personally, I LOVE my kroot, and i hate to think that I might just have to look for allies elsewhere for some CC love....only time will tell. One thing is obvious - S3 is a bit hit - combine that with the rumor that the rifle is no longer a double weapon (well, not confirmed yet) - if this part is true - the use of kroot will require a lot more deliberation than before.

- Devil fish - sure, the burst cannon is a bit better, and they might have some warger upgrades to make them awesome high point transports. Well, the challenge is, tau could have really benefited from some cheap transport options, even if they were worse than the fish (remember all that about how good options are, from above?). So, while we did not have to pay the pathfinder tax anymore, we still don't have a cheap transport option - so use the fish with great care (when will these guys learn how to shoot out a hatch? Apparently top hatches are only for sightseeing tank commanders....).

- Targeting arrays - so, these might be in there, but a lot of reading, spanish translation and sifting through the entrails of a goat have given sign that we just might not have these precious things. Sure, you can make up for it with makerlights - but that is different - we will have to adapt and use markers very carefully - marker priority becomes much more critical now - in a way, this is a good thing - this kind of "finesse" and smart play is what separates the successful tau player from the soon to sell his army and go back to his space wolves list band-wagoneer players.

- The flyers - well, meh is the new black for flyers in 6th it seems (oh why gw, have you not adjusted the scythe and the vendetta yet? Don't answer that, not in this thread at least). Ok, The fighter is not bad...its just not strightforward - maybe this is a good thing. Utilizing the turret and seekers on this thing may be the key - so think about the angles and plan your moves - especially with our poor BS skill.
- The bomber - ok, um....I am not really sure if this flying whilrwind is just our pyrovore, or if it will take a lot more work how to figure it out - dunno - I suspect the drones are the key to its value....this could be an opportunity for thinking tau players. Or it could be just a goofy model I put on my book case. Dunno.

Well, that is enough for now. Overall, I think the book is strong and have a lot of high hopes.
We have a lot of new options to play with, new models to paint, and new tau players to mock - oh, and go write forgeworld and tell them they make totally cool stuff, and if they would please update their rules for 6th - and um, fix the remora please.

see you on the table...

The thing to remember about the bomber is that the drones are twin-linked, and the "get's hot" roll is separate from the scatter roll, so you'll pretty much always be firing them as twin S8 blasts with no drawback.

It boils down to this.

At 30" the 150 point fighter has either six non-TL S7 attacks or 2 non-TL S7 attacks and one S8 Large Blast with a 1 in 6 chance of Get's Hot. The 165 point bomber has a networked markerlight, 2 TL-S7 Attacks and either two S7 TL-BS2 shots or two S8 blasts with a 1/36 chance of get's hot. At 15" the bomber has the slight edge in anti-flyer firepower as the extra shots from rapid fire kick in.

Basically the worth of the bomber depends on whether the embarked drones are considered turrets or fixed forwards.

I just wish the pulse bomb had Haywire.

Puscifer wrote:
Riptide Heavy Burst Cannon on Overcharge - Glance av14 to death - That's all I can think of for av14.

Yea... glancing armor 14 to death is pointless. only a 1/6 chance to glance it. so for it to be destroyed can take up to 24 hits mathmatically.

Having played Blood Angels at a competitive level I have no issue with FBide groups and Tank Hunters seemlegit.

AV13 is rather frail since they do not have a strong read or side at times so it will not be too difficult. AV14 I would just block with a Piranha and have a great day. Piranha's roles really have not changed except now they will get better melta shots!

Yes it might involve wasting a turn of shooting but once again I am ok with this. If you mire the LR, then its precious cargo can not get to its goal easily, that is a win in my book.

Yes once again the math is not on my side but I have killed an entire battleplan with a well placed glance or pen. Remember sometimes you have to look like you can do worse then what you really can. Games have many depths and you lose on all the ones you dont fight on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tabeling a foe is great and all but it is not nessecary all the time.

Wait... quick question...

I was comparing what my new Crisis suits cost compared to my old crisis suits.

I see "Multitracker" on the wargear description page, bt I'm not seeing it on the list of options to choose from of Support Items.

Do crisis suits come with the multi-tracker automatically?

I am very excited about the new codex but a little sad we are not going to be OP :(

The good:
Missile pod drones! These are cheap and pack a punch. They are actually so good I feel like they will overshadow all other drones. Every crisis team will consist of 3 xv8's 6 missile drones. Every stealth suit is going to want 2 missile drones (except one suit who will have a missile drone and the one that give +6" to pulse weapons). They clearly outshine gun drones (even with the gun drone buff) and they take a wound like a shield drone. The only way I see shield drones being taken is if the owner is wearing irridium armor for sv2+ or if the unit needs to take a sv4+ because the majority of the unit has that save, then I could see people taking 2 shield drones and 4 missile drones so the majority sv is 3+ (but I am not sure that is how the rules work out, correct me if I am wrong) But either way we are going to have s7 spam like crazy.

Riptide actually looks amazing to me. I have been on the fence about this unit but the ion accelerator is just a MEQ and TEQ destroying monster. I don't see myself nova charging it often because it is just too risky but overcharged s8 ap2 large blast is just going to take units out. Especially considering you can spend 2 marker lights to take away cover. The unit with upgrades is going to be 230pts+ (each special drone is 25 I believe) but he can easily make his points up and will draw tons of fire. T6 W6 sv2+ is going to be hard to kill. He fights for elite space so I only expect to see 1 of him in a list under 2kpts but I think he will have a nice home

HQ choices all look good. I especially like the cheaper HQs like the Ethereals and Fire cadre that give buffs to our troops. This will go a long way to helping us capture objectives. But I do think that we will have to see just how good these are because souped up firewarriors are still just firewarriors and can often struggle to kill MEQs. We will have to see.

The bad:

Our flyers look like they are going to sink. They have some nice tricks but nothing special that you can't get on foot and they are pretty low armored so any anti-air will get them before they can really do their thing. Unless there is some special rule I am not seeing or an upgrade to make them better I just don't see these doing good. Whats more, marker lights are going t be high priority with so many seeker missiles and everyone at bs3 so I don't see much room in our fast attack for these guysl

Devil fish, they are getting a buff to firepower with extra shots on the burst cannon and the gun drones but they are staying the same price and d-pods are going up in price and down in effectiveness. They are not paired with pathfinders now so I don't know how many people are going to take them. They really should cost 50pts as they have no firepoints, very small arms and are just a can to move fire warriors around. I am not going to spend 90 points to move around a unit of firewarriors I am going to buy another unit.

Pathfinders. They are getting some toys that might be fun but we need markerlights more than ever and these guys have gotten worst. Marker lights are still heavy for some stupid reason and now pathfinders have a sv5+ so they are easier to kill (thought to be honest I have never taken these guys out of ruins, I just set them there and let them go to town) Still I was hoping for much more mobile marker lights.

 Materia_Master wrote:

Do crisis suits come with the multi-tracker automatically?

That's whats been floating around

 Lysenis wrote:
Having played Blood Angels at a competitive level I have no issue with FBide groups and Tank Hunters seemlegit.

AV13 is rather frail since they do not have a strong read or side at times so it will not be too difficult. AV14 I would just block with a Piranha and have a great day. Piranha's roles really have not changed except now they will get better melta shots!

Yes it might involve wasting a turn of shooting but once again I am ok with this. If you mire the LR, then its precious cargo can not get to its goal easily, that is a win in my book.

Yes once again the math is not on my side but I have killed an entire battleplan with a well placed glance or pen. Remember sometimes you have to look like you can do worse then what you really can. Games have many depths and you lose on all the ones you dont fight on.

Yes, but now we have to figure out what to do with our fast attack slot. looks like you will not have the ability to take flyers until 2k, and that is only if you want to go to dual force org.

Pathfinders are so needed now, we have to have at least 2 squads, and with the third needing to be piranhas to be an all-comers list.

like I said, it seems like I have to have a more cookie cutter set-up than ever.

 Materia_Master wrote:
Wait... quick question...

I was comparing what my new Crisis suits cost compared to my old crisis suits.

I see "Multitracker" on the wargear description page, bt I'm not seeing it on the list of options to choose from of Support Items.

Do crisis suits come with the multi-tracker automatically?

From what I have read, yes they do come with multi-trackers. This means Fireknife and helios build are 52 points rather than 62 so 16% less. Firestorm actually went up in price by 1 pt but because we have so much missile pod availability I don't think many people will run that build. I could see helio with missile drones being the most common configuration now.

I honestly have no real answer for what I'm going to do about the loss of my XV-88's in their real role. I used them as exactly what they are there for, in a vehicle heavy MEQ area, I needed that s10/1 reliable shooting, without it, it doesn't matter how many fusillades of missiles I can send down at them, it won't help.

Running helios suits just puts you in danger when the other player now knows you have to come to him to handle him. The hammerhead is literally the worst anti-tank tank in the game. You bring it when you need to lay down templates, not when you're actually going to use that solid shot. Hell, I use them as bait. Guys that don't quite understand what's going on tend to focus on that hideously large gun knowing that pushing tanks into my lines kills them, so I just run it up and get them going for it.

The missilespam XV-88's are going to be fun, but I would still take the (10/1)railguns on at least 2/3 in the squad, simply because they're versatile killing machines. They're either the death of equipment, or they're still solid shots at dangerous targets. Reliable in pretty much any role that's not blob army types (in which cases I would field hammerheads).

The biggest problem here is that the tau lack a real av14 killer now. Sure, you could bring hammerheads, and you could bring three, and then on average you could score hits that MIGHT equal 1.5 hull points per turn, if you're lucky. AV14 isn't usually concerned too greatly about 1.5 per turn, especially if they have multiple of them. Overcharging a suit to get s9 shots is a terrible idea, that's why we had the 10/1 railguns, because we had no s9/2 or 8/2, it was mid range MEQ and long range Anti-AV. Giving us the option to skyfire at a -2 strength would have been more than enough, they didn't need to "buff" the hammerhead by pulling the teeth out of our XV-88's.

So does anyone know if there was any truth to the "Drones can LoS any non-Drone Infantry" rumor? I miss the original drone rules.

 lambsandlions wrote:

The bad:

Pathfinders. They are getting some toys that might be fun but we need markerlights more than ever and these guys have gotten worst. Marker lights are still heavy for some stupid reason and now pathfinders have a sv5+ so they are easier to kill (thought to be honest I have never taken these guys out of ruins, I just set them there and let them go to town) Still I was hoping for much more mobile marker lights.

I conceed that markerlights arn't any more mobile than before, but you have to admit, it makes sense they're heavy. You're painting a target with a laser, essentially. You need to hold still and keep the laser on the target while other weapons utilize the pinpoint guidance.
So yes, they're less mobile. And yes, they're a bit more squishy with one less armor, but at least now FW have a clear role compared to pathfinders. FW are your aggressive infantry, PF are your support infantry.

But they're also a single point less expensive, and no devilfish required.
old codex: 4 pathfinders with devilfish: 128 points.
new codex: 4 pathfinders: 44 points.

Without the shackle of the manditory Dfish, I can almost field three times the amount of pathfinders for roughly the same cost.

So we're going to see a MASSIVE increase in pathfinder use.
My advice? Use pathfinder's markerlights as mid-to-back field laser support, and any frontline laser support should be from outflanking pathfinders (just make sure they outflank at a section that keeps them away from utter destruction for a turn, as they can't arrive and use markerlights on the same turn).
Funny story about outflanking pathfinders, if you get them in the enemies backfield and he's moved all of his aggressive units forward, then you have good markerlight coverage on his support units and his mid-field units, and to get your pathfinders, they have to back-track. That's exaclty what happened against my brother and his CSM last time we played. I outflanked my pathfinders (with Dfish, of course), and when his infantry was already halfway across the board, he had to spend 2 turns getting them back to my pathfinders (who had already painted his back-field weapons platform), by the time his infantry caught up to me, my Crisis suits had deepstruck near my back-field pathfinders (with the help of the Dfish's sensors). Not only did I gut his back line, but since he had to pull troops off of his mid-to-front line, his attack was somewhat blunted as well. I know it won't always work that perfectly, but it's very viable and hard to counter, as long as the enemy just doesn't play super-defensively or bunch up in his own back lines.

With that in mind, it's of my opinion that pathfinders are vastly improved from their old codex position.

jazzpaintball wrote:

like I said, it seems like I have to have a more cookie cutter set-up than ever.

I have to disagree. With what I have read it looks like many options are viable. Stealth suits seem like they can actually be played now and worth taking over crisis suits. Kroot seem very good with sniper ammo and firewarriors get some nice buffs so you could easily take an infantry heavy list. 3 riptides thought not the best could work out. We are suffering from not having as much variety as every other army but I don't think list will be cookie cutter.

Anbutou wrote:
I honestly have no real answer for what I'm going to do about the loss of my XV-88's in their real role. I used them as exactly what they are there for, in a vehicle heavy MEQ area, I needed that s10/1 reliable shooting, without it, it doesn't matter how many fusillades of missiles I can send down at them, it won't help.

Running helios suits just puts you in danger when the other player now knows you have to come to him to handle him. The hammerhead is literally the worst anti-tank tank in the game. You bring it when you need to lay down templates, not when you're actually going to use that solid shot. Hell, I use them as bait. Guys that don't quite understand what's going on tend to focus on that hideously large gun knowing that pushing tanks into my lines kills them, so I just run it up and get them going for it.

The missilespam XV-88's are going to be fun, but I would still take the (10/1)railguns on at least 2/3 in the squad, simply because they're versatile killing machines. They're either the death of equipment, or they're still solid shots at dangerous targets. Reliable in pretty much any role that's not blob army types (in which cases I would field hammerheads).

The biggest problem here is that the tau lack a real av14 killer now. Sure, you could bring hammerheads, and you could bring three, and then on average you could score hits that MIGHT equal 1.5 hull points per turn, if you're lucky. AV14 isn't usually concerned too greatly about 1.5 per turn, especially if they have multiple of them. Overcharging a suit to get s9 shots is a terrible idea, that's why we had the 10/1 railguns, because we had no s9/2 or 8/2, it was mid range MEQ and long range Anti-AV. Giving us the option to skyfire at a -2 strength would have been more than enough, they didn't need to "buff" the hammerhead by pulling the teeth out of our XV-88's.

I'm a bit annoyed Broadsides Shas'vre can't pick Signature systems (And therefore the Puretide chip). Tank Hunters/Monster Hunters would actually make them semi-credible in their original role.

Or heck, give them an overcharge that makes the gun Melta or Ordnance.

Right now the easiest way to hit vehicles with Strength 10 attacks is charging in the Riptide and using Smash. That's pretty dang odd.