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Anbutou wrote:
I honestly have no real answer for what I'm going to do about the loss of my XV-88's in their real role. I used them as exactly what they are there for, in a vehicle heavy MEQ area, I needed that s10/1 reliable shooting, without it, it doesn't matter how many fusillades of missiles I can send down at them, it won't help.

Running helios suits just puts you in danger when the other player now knows you have to come to him to handle him. The hammerhead is literally the worst anti-tank tank in the game. You bring it when you need to lay down templates, not when you're actually going to use that solid shot. Hell, I use them as bait. Guys that don't quite understand what's going on tend to focus on that hideously large gun knowing that pushing tanks into my lines kills them, so I just run it up and get them going for it.

The missilespam XV-88's are going to be fun, but I would still take the (10/1)railguns on at least 2/3 in the squad, simply because they're versatile killing machines. They're either the death of equipment, or they're still solid shots at dangerous targets. Reliable in pretty much any role that's not blob army types (in which cases I would field hammerheads).

The biggest problem here is that the tau lack a real av14 killer now. Sure, you could bring hammerheads, and you could bring three, and then on average you could score hits that MIGHT equal 1.5 hull points per turn, if you're lucky. AV14 isn't usually concerned too greatly about 1.5 per turn, especially if they have multiple of them. Overcharging a suit to get s9 shots is a terrible idea, that's why we had the 10/1 railguns, because we had no s9/2 or 8/2, it was mid range MEQ and long range Anti-AV. Giving us the option to skyfire at a -2 strength would have been more than enough, they didn't need to "buff" the hammerhead by pulling the teeth out of our XV-88's.

I am glad I am not the only one seeing this problem...

 Materia_Master wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:

The bad:

Pathfinders. They are getting some toys that might be fun but we need markerlights more than ever and these guys have gotten worst. Marker lights are still heavy for some stupid reason and now pathfinders have a sv5+ so they are easier to kill (thought to be honest I have never taken these guys out of ruins, I just set them there and let them go to town) Still I was hoping for much more mobile marker lights.

I conceed that markerlights arn't any more mobile than before, but you have to admit, it makes sense they're heavy. You're painting a target with a laser, essentially. You need to hold still and keep the laser on the target while other weapons utilize the pinpoint guidance.
So yes, they're less mobile. And yes, they're a bit more squishy with one less armor, but at least now FW have a clear role compared to pathfinders. FW are your aggressive infantry, PF are your support infantry.

But they're also a single point less expensive, and no devilfish required.
old codex: 4 pathfinders with devilfish: 128 points.
new codex: 4 pathfinders: 44 points.

Without the shackle of the manditory Dfish, I can almost field three times the amount of pathfinders for roughly the same cost.

So we're going to see a MASSIVE increase in pathfinder use.
My advice? Use pathfinder's markerlights as mid-to-back field laser support, and any frontline laser support should be from outflanking pathfinders (just make sure they outflank at a section that keeps them away from utter destruction for a turn, as they can't arrive and use markerlights on the same turn).

With that in mind, it's of my opinion that pathfinders are vastly improved from their old codex position.

I usually place my 8 pathfinders in ruins in the middle of the field where they can get the most hits off. I could see myself easily see myself running two squads of 8 and having them on either side blanketing the field. And the devil fish wasn't too much of a tax because I just loaded firewarriors inside of it and zoomed it to the back field. I was just hoping marker lights would be easier to get and on a better platform because they are such an iconic part of Tau.

RogueRegault wrote:

Anbutou wrote:
I honestly have no real answer for what I'm going to do about the loss of my XV-88's in their real role. I used them as exactly what they are there for, in a vehicle heavy MEQ area, I needed that s10/1 reliable shooting, without it, it doesn't matter how many fusillades of missiles I can send down at them, it won't help.

Running helios suits just puts you in danger when the other player now knows you have to come to him to handle him. The hammerhead is literally the worst anti-tank tank in the game. You bring it when you need to lay down templates, not when you're actually going to use that solid shot. Hell, I use them as bait. Guys that don't quite understand what's going on tend to focus on that hideously large gun knowing that pushing tanks into my lines kills them, so I just run it up and get them going for it.

The missilespam XV-88's are going to be fun, but I would still take the (10/1)railguns on at least 2/3 in the squad, simply because they're versatile killing machines. They're either the death of equipment, or they're still solid shots at dangerous targets. Reliable in pretty much any role that's not blob army types (in which cases I would field hammerheads).

The biggest problem here is that the tau lack a real av14 killer now. Sure, you could bring hammerheads, and you could bring three, and then on average you could score hits that MIGHT equal 1.5 hull points per turn, if you're lucky. AV14 isn't usually concerned too greatly about 1.5 per turn, especially if they have multiple of them. Overcharging a suit to get s9 shots is a terrible idea, that's why we had the 10/1 railguns, because we had no s9/2 or 8/2, it was mid range MEQ and long range Anti-AV. Giving us the option to skyfire at a -2 strength would have been more than enough, they didn't need to "buff" the hammerhead by pulling the teeth out of our XV-88's.

I'm a bit annoyed Broadsides Shas'vre can't pick Signature systems (And therefore the Puretide chip). Tank Hunters/Monster Hunters would actually make them semi-credible in their original role.

Or heck, give them an overcharge that makes the gun Melta or Ordnance.

Right now the easiest way to hit vehicles with Strength 10 attacks is charging in the Riptide and using Smash. That's pretty dang odd.

Or use a (very easy to obtain) markerlight and shoot it with a Hammerhead.
Or give the a crisis suit an onagar gauntlet and falcon pawnch the enemy tank. (might as well give the suit a melta, for synergy)

@RogueRegault

It's NOT the easiest way though is it? You've got to get the guy into their back field alive (whilst facing probably every single gun in their force) to even get to a tank. Then you have 2 attacks to hit it on a 3+. Granted that's probably going to wreck face it's not a sound tactic.

2 x Hammerheads with one being Longstrike is what I shall be taking. I play IG so face quite a few LRusses. It's funny - in my last game it was my two HHs that took out the Russes first and NOT the Broadside!!!

Also - to those people moaning about "cookie clutter" lists because XV88 got nerfed...ermmm...that's exactly what cookie clutter was. They FORCED you to take XV88s because we had practically no other decent option. No we have so much Strength 7/8/9 weaponary glances and pens with HHs will be quite easy to get IMO. Especially with the new Fusion range and Stealths being bad ass.

EDIT - I CANNOT WAIT to falcon pawnch a tank :-D Completely non-Tau tactic and very risky and will result in many dead Battlesuits the turn after but just to see the reaction on my enemies face will be priceless.

 lambsandlions wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:

like I said, it seems like I have to have a more cookie cutter set-up than ever.

I have to disagree. With what I have read it looks like many options are viable. Stealth suits seem like they can actually be played now and worth taking over crisis suits. Kroot seem very good with sniper ammo and firewarriors get some nice buffs so you could easily take an infantry heavy list. 3 riptides thought not the best could work out. We are suffering from not having as much variety as every other army but I don't think list will be cookie cutter.

Stealth suits in a full cloud formation (6 suits and 12 drones) were always viable. And with shroud in 6th edition, they became one of the hardest hitting and most survivable units I have ever used. So that did not change. Infantry heavy is already what you wanted to do since 6th edition required so many more models on the table than 4th or 5th ever did.

We will have to agree to disagree. I feel that we will have our fast attack and heavy support nearly cookie cutter for every tau player...

We get to choose between

Vespids - Gun drones (maybe allowed to take the Missile drones too) - Piranhas and Pathfinders?

Depending on the area you are in a squad of Vespids could be very handy now - especially with their 4+ armour and host of special rules. Get them swarming between buildings as close support and MEQ are going down! Just be creative, it's not all about comp environment with epic lists of doom.

Gun drone squadrons were always fun, especially as a distraction deepstrike unit behind an enemy tank or unit. Now IF we can swap a couple out for missile drones or whatever, that could be fun to use.

 Materia_Master wrote:


Or use a (very easy to obtain) markerlight and shoot it with a Hammerhead.
Or give the a crisis suit an onagar gauntlet and falcon pawnch the enemy tank. (might as well give the suit a melta, for synergy)

FAAALCOONPUNNCH!

Lols aside that is actually an interesting idea.

Do consider that this is a new codex. New ways of handeling things. Honestly I think the biggest issue people are haivng right now is that they are comparing what they had (as of this saturday) and not looking forward to what they have to work with now.

Stop living in the past and live with the rest of us in the present.

 gr1m_dan wrote:
@RogueRegault

It's NOT the easiest way though is it? You've got to get the guy into their back field alive (whilst facing probably every single gun in their force) to even get to a tank. Then you have 2 attacks to hit it on a 3+. Granted that's probably going to wreck face it's not a sound tactic.

2 x Hammerheads with one being Longstrike is what I shall be taking. I play IG so face quite a few LRusses. It's funny - in my last game it was my two HHs that took out the Russes first and NOT the Broadside!!!

Also - to those people moaning about "cookie clutter" lists because XV88 got nerfed...ermmm...that's exactly what cookie clutter was. They FORCED you to take XV88s because we had practically no other decent option. No we have so much Strength 7/8/9 weaponary glances and pens with HHs will be quite easy to get IMO. Especially with the new Fusion range and Stealths being bad ass.

EDIT - I CANNOT WAIT to falcon pawnch a tank :-D Completely non-Tau tactic and very risky and will result in many dead Battlesuits the turn after but just to see the reaction on my enemies face will be priceless.

Yes, we had a cookie cutter in the heavy support slot: XV-88 for anti-heavy armor. Now we have a cookie cutter in the heavy support: Hammerhead for less anti-heavy armor and Fast Attack due to needing 2 squads of pathfinders and most likely piranhas to help with anti-armor due to hammer heads being innefficiant at doing it for a heavy support slot.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh, by the way. Anyone have more information on the marker beacon system?

I never minded the pathfinder "tax" due to the DF having the beacon.

Can we still get a marker beacon on a DF? Or did we even lose the ability to suicide suits via deepstrike a bit more effectively?

 Materia_Master wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:

Anbutou wrote:
I honestly have no real answer for what I'm going to do about the loss of my XV-88's in their real role. I used them as exactly what they are there for, in a vehicle heavy MEQ area, I needed that s10/1 reliable shooting, without it, it doesn't matter how many fusillades of missiles I can send down at them, it won't help.

Running helios suits just puts you in danger when the other player now knows you have to come to him to handle him. The hammerhead is literally the worst anti-tank tank in the game. You bring it when you need to lay down templates, not when you're actually going to use that solid shot. Hell, I use them as bait. Guys that don't quite understand what's going on tend to focus on that hideously large gun knowing that pushing tanks into my lines kills them, so I just run it up and get them going for it.

The missilespam XV-88's are going to be fun, but I would still take the (10/1)railguns on at least 2/3 in the squad, simply because they're versatile killing machines. They're either the death of equipment, or they're still solid shots at dangerous targets. Reliable in pretty much any role that's not blob army types (in which cases I would field hammerheads).

The biggest problem here is that the tau lack a real av14 killer now. Sure, you could bring hammerheads, and you could bring three, and then on average you could score hits that MIGHT equal 1.5 hull points per turn, if you're lucky. AV14 isn't usually concerned too greatly about 1.5 per turn, especially if they have multiple of them. Overcharging a suit to get s9 shots is a terrible idea, that's why we had the 10/1 railguns, because we had no s9/2 or 8/2, it was mid range MEQ and long range Anti-AV. Giving us the option to skyfire at a -2 strength would have been more than enough, they didn't need to "buff" the hammerhead by pulling the teeth out of our XV-88's.

I'm a bit annoyed Broadsides Shas'vre can't pick Signature systems (And therefore the Puretide chip). Tank Hunters/Monster Hunters would actually make them semi-credible in their original role.

Or heck, give them an overcharge that makes the gun Melta or Ordnance.

Right now the easiest way to hit vehicles with Strength 10 attacks is charging in the Riptide and using Smash. That's pretty dang odd.

Or use a (very easy to obtain) markerlight and shoot it with a Hammerhead.
Or give the a crisis suit an onagar gauntlet and falcon pawnch the enemy tank. (might as well give the suit a melta, for synergy)

The problem here is that when you bring your crisis suits into 18 inch range of an enemy, that puts them in pretty serious danger. Especially if you assault them. You really think that the answer to heavy AV is to send a crisis suit face to face with it? So what, we just ignore the fact that heavy armor is rarely alone? That heavy armor is usually holding guys that can shrug off the hits of a s3 explosion and laugh while they mulch you? We should just go back to 4e and deep strike fusion suits to handle it? I mean, this is a serious weakness here. The Tau need to be able to handle armor, because if they can't, all that's gonna happen is you'll set your army down, and they'll drop tanks and smile. I understand that everything has to change, but the simplest fact here is that this didn't. Railguns weren't broken, they were extremely well costed/apportioned.

Utilizing a squad's worth of markerlights on a single tank just to ensure greater hits doesn't change your fire output. A standard deployment could handle six 10/1 shots at enemy AV, usually enough to crush any serious threats by T3, leaving you free to deal with softer targets. Now a maxed out deployment == 3 shots. So at absolute maximum you get to cripple one tank, maybe you even incapacitate it, I don't know. 3 rolls at 2+ then 3 rolls at 4+, seems like any problems I pointed out just above were solved completely, man those markerlights did the trick alright...

However, like the poster above, the first thing I'm gonna do when I get my army on the table is get a quadra tank fisting with two riptides, and my two crisis squads. I'm gonna do it knowing I'll lose because of it, but I'll die with a smile on my face, no lies.

I need to see the wording on the Marker Lights. Because what has been said so far is that they are tokens that stay on until used. . . Does this mean that they last the entire game or until the next player turn or until your next turn?

Nah - We probably won't need two squads of Pathfinders, remember we have access to a lot of cheaper markerdrones and Firewarrior Shas'ui cheap markerlights they can use on their own squads etc

We have access to Fusion blasters on just about every suit now combined with the two ways of getting non-scatter deepstriking is another tactic. We have EMP Grenades now also, as a last ditch attempt would do the job.

Riptide has some options - he can move 12" and then possibly 4D6 in the assault phase. Stick on Fusion Blasters and Missile Pods + either HBC or IA and that could wreck side armour, even front.

@Rogue - The beacon system is still here - Pathfinders and Stealth teams have access to two pieces of wargear that stops scatter within 6". The Pathfinder one also has the "if within 6" of board edge, can come on from there as Outflank" (something along those lines). One of our command traits is our HQ and unit he is with deepstrikes without scatter.

Oh knights who say nay....I have brought you a shrubbery

Lets just wait until we all have dex in hand before we start trying to bring the spirits of the whole tau community down...We have been waiting a long time for this, lets enjoy it or try to.

so I guess you'll have to find new ways to take care of AV14 instead of spamming XV88 the 'cookie cutters' of the last dex....ok sure were in it together. but if we got all these new goodies AND kept all of our S10/1 weapons...that would be a bit OP...IMHO


Anyways AV14 is rather expensive so it should be a bit harder to take down...wait till the 6th, read the dex and maybe we will find some options open to us...

Think about the solution, not the problem...that will only bring you and everyone around you down.

 gr1m_dan wrote:
Nah - We probably won't need two squads of Pathfinders, remember we have access to a lot of cheaper markerdrones and Firewarrior Shas'ui cheap markerlights they can use on their own squads etc

We have access to Fusion blasters on just about every suit now combined with the two ways of getting non-scatter deepstriking is another tactic. We have EMP Grenades now also, as a last ditch attempt would do the job.

Riptide has some options - he can move 12" and then possibly 4D6 in the assault phase. Stick on Fusion Blasters and Missile Pods + either HBC or IA and that could wreck side armour, even front.

@Rogue - The beacon system is still here - Pathfinders and Stealth teams have access to two pieces of wargear that stops scatter within 6". The Pathfinder one also has the "if within 6" of board edge, can come on from there as Outflank" (something along those lines). One of our command traits is our HQ and unit he is with deepstrikes without scatter.

Yup, that is what we need: deepstriking our commander to do a suicide tank hit.....

So we dont have a nearly board wide beacon system any more? now we only have the ability to deep strike next to our stealth teams which are in our deployment zone to begin with for it is stupid to not shoot with them from turn one.

So it looks like I can no longer even effectively deepstrike my heavy hitting stealth cloud.... Wow... I feel even more hurt from this....

Oooohhhooooo... This new stuff looks really sweet! So any suit can take the "BS2 Overwatch" system huh? Now, here it goes, my 3x3 Missilesides and 2x10 Fire Warriors behind an Aegis... Come and charge me bro, I dare you !

Also, Deep Striking Skyfire Sunforges will be pretty cool for AA. And for anything else too. So... Twilight of the Fireknife I suspect?

I find it funny that now that we have to work for our AV14 kills people are upset. Sorry peeps but as Hans_Einberg stated, since it is so expensive points wise it should be hard to take down.

How would it be OP? Also, I'm not talking about tactics, or about woes related to things we haven't learned, we've all seen the leaked images, there's the railguns, 8/1, I mean, unless someone went through ridiculous amounts of trouble to fake that codex, it's fact, so it's now, when we're still reeling that we need to find new ways around it, and leaving our stuff in rapid fire range just to handle av14 doesn't feel like the answer.

I don't think it would be OP in the slightest, I think it would provide a real dilemma to the tau builder. Do I bring the missile spam? Do I bring the Railguns? Man, do I want to play around with hard-wired target locks and such (provided those still exist of course) and run them together? Right now there's an extremely easy answer. You bring xv-88's, they've got missiles on them. AP1 doesn't make up for the weight of fire that the missiles bring. So what happened was we got our new "cookie cutters" and thus any debate is silenced.

Honestly, I probably would have rather seen a new suit introduced into the heavy support choices, given us a REAL dilemma there. Choose between another XV-88 squad or the anti-air // missile suit squad. That would have been a difficult choice right there.

Edit -

 Lysenis wrote:
I find it funny that now that we have to work for our AV14 kills people are upset. Sorry peeps but as Hans_Einberg stated, since it is so expensive points wise it should be hard to take down.

It is hard to take down. By default the Tau were some of the hardest hit by the 6th edition changes with the hull point system and damage rolling. Tau in 4 and 5 were absolute demons to tanks, you were lucky if you made it out of tau's first turn without losing at least 2-3 of yours, in early sixth they're lucky if they took down two. The problem i'm seeing is that we're using our 18" range suits to deal with your 48+" range tanks. That's the biggest problem. Any list that relies on it's tanks just has to set up a small trap and it becomes the 4e deepstriking fusion suit trap, even worse because you've gotta actually get really lucky to take a tank down in one now, even with fusion.

Anbutou wrote:


Edit -

 Lysenis wrote:
I find it funny that now that we have to work for our AV14 kills people are upset. Sorry peeps but as Hans_Einberg stated, since it is so expensive points wise it should be hard to take down.

It is hard to take down. By default the Tau were some of the hardest hit by the 6th edition changes with the hull point system and damage rolling. Tau in 4 and 5 were absolute demons to tanks, you were lucky if you made it out of tau's first turn without losing at least 2-3 of yours, in early sixth they're lucky if they took down two. The problem i'm seeing is that we're using our 18" range suits to deal with your 48+" range tanks. That's the biggest problem. Any list that relies on it's tanks just has to set up a small trap and it becomes the 4e deepstriking fusion suit trap, even worse because you've gotta actually get really lucky to take a tank down in one now, even with fusion.

So because you cant take down AV14 like you did in the past you got nerfed? I think it matches the theme of why AV14 SHOULD be so hard to take down.

1-2 AV14/AV13 dead per turn is nerfed O.O I am missing something. . . what other army could boast that?. . . . Anyone? Maybe DE and Eldar but not always. . .

Anbutou wrote:
Right now there's an extremely easy answer. You bring xv-88's, they've got missiles on them. AP1 doesn't make up for the weight of fire that the missiles bring. So what happened was we got our new "cookie cutters" and thus any debate is silenced.

I'm not so confident. Missile XV88s don't impress me much, while the railguns still seem good. The problem with the missile XV88s is that they aren't twin-linked and only have 36" range, which means that they aren't all that good and many targets can avoid them easily, especially flyers. What happens to those missile XV88s in Hammer and Anvil deployment? On the other hand, the heavy rail rifle can engage targets from outside normal weapon range and packs a heavy punch with its AP1. Flyers will be jinking and vehicles will be advancing carefully-- Paladins will just stay on the shelf!

Besides, there's one element here many people haven't considered-- the mirror match. My XV88s with heavy rail rifles will be very very happy to see enemy XV88s with missiles-- easy targets with little ability to fight back! If I need missiles, well, there's a new drone that gives me the ability to take more missiles on practically every unit in the army. Why spend a Heavy Support slot on them, and not even in a particularly efficient configuration?

All they had to do was give us lace on our s8 rail guns. I understand s10 with skyfire is a little too powerful in the sky but s8 is not powerful on land. Lance would have meant we are pening av14 on 4's like we used to and anything lighter than 12 isn't really an issue. Or better yet, just give a -2 s penalty for shooting up in the air.

 Lysenis wrote:

1-2 AV14/AV13 dead per turn is nerfed O.O I am missing something. . . what other army could boast that?. . . . Anyone? Maybe DE and Eldar but not always. . .

IG! They can actually do much-much more, but hey, hail to the king army of shooting so no surprises here.

1-2 AV14/AV13 dead per turn is nerfed O.O I am missing something. . . what other army could boast that?. . . . Anyone? Maybe DE and Eldar but not always. . .

Anyways AV14 is rather expensive so it should be a bit harder to take down.

A single 25 point Voltaic Staff causes 1,66 glances and 0,55 penetrating hits on a Land Raider. Assuming you equip each of your Night Scythe kill teams with just one, the Necrons can easily take out 3 Land Raiders in one shooting phase and have plenty left over for lighter targets The Eldar can't even get close to the Haywire/Gauss HP reduction madness.

I just read that the early warning system war gear grants interceptor. I'm ok with S8 railguns on Broadsides now.

What's the price of this upgrade and how many units/models can get it? Interceptor gets free shots against all units that come from reserve, not just flyers, so it's probably the strongest special ability in the game at the moment.

I wouldn't have really liked lance either. I mean, if I wanted to play Eldar I really would have, and honestly, I despise any Eldar flavorings to our lore, really. I thought we filled a unique spot in the GW world, and that pretty much was 100% down to str 10/ap1. That instant death rule really kept us from the grave in a lot of situations that might change, might not change.

 Lysenis wrote:

Anbutou wrote:


Edit -

 Lysenis wrote:
I find it funny that now that we have to work for our AV14 kills people are upset. Sorry peeps but as Hans_Einberg stated, since it is so expensive points wise it should be hard to take down.

It is hard to take down. By default the Tau were some of the hardest hit by the 6th edition changes with the hull point system and damage rolling. Tau in 4 and 5 were absolute demons to tanks, you were lucky if you made it out of tau's first turn without losing at least 2-3 of yours, in early sixth they're lucky if they took down two. The problem i'm seeing is that we're using our 18" range suits to deal with your 48+" range tanks. That's the biggest problem. Any list that relies on it's tanks just has to set up a small trap and it becomes the 4e deepstriking fusion suit trap, even worse because you've gotta actually get really lucky to take a tank down in one now, even with fusion.

So because you cant take down AV14 like you did in the past you got nerfed? I think it matches the theme of why AV14 SHOULD be so hard to take down.

1-2 AV14/AV13 dead per turn is nerfed O.O I am missing something. . . what other army could boast that?. . . . Anyone? Maybe DE and Eldar but not always. . .

No. A decently lucky average on non-av14 is 1.5ish, but we've got other alternatives for 12's. 13's still pretty much required railguns. The problem here is that our heavy support (non hammerhead) is playing fast attack/elite roles/ranges, or ID MEQ if you're using the railguns - and our elites/(maybe HQ, I haven't seen the full list yet, but obviously we'll keep our generic suit commander... hopefully.) are playing infantry anti-tank ranges. Our fast response suits can easily handle anti-tank roles, but PR/MP is a huge boon to have on steadily advancing troops. When we use up all 3 of our Heavy Support slots, we get 3 shots. Show me any other race who's primary anti-tank weapon comes on one platform, is not twin linked, and sits (current points- pre codex) on 185 points without decoy launchers, flechettte, spines, or any seeker missiles, if that's your thing. If I give it the full array of gear, that's 20 points less than a land raider. For 2 str 1 ap. Which is huge, but not on such a weak platform as that.

It's like all our other shooting in the game has been devolved to fire warrior vs non fire warrior shooting. Sure it looks impressive coming out of us, but when it's firing back in, it's the same thing. S9 vs 13 front S10 vs 14 front, same bs, except theirs comes 2-3 on a tank, twin linked. Your hammerheads will die due to weight of fire long before you can inflict any real hurt. Which means that our heavy support can't hold up it's own weight in anti-tank roles, now our elites and HQ have to pick up the slack, weakening their own power against infantry roles.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:

1-2 AV14/AV13 dead per turn is nerfed O.O I am missing something. . . what other army could boast that?. . . . Anyone? Maybe DE and Eldar but not always. . .

IG! They can actually do much-much more, but hey, hail to the king army of shooting so no surprises here.

Lord.. IG. /shudder, I just do what I can, I play sneaky, deep strike, Infiltrate, anything I can do to cover ground and not get made into steaming piles of crater by the ludicrous amounts of incoming fire. I get a point for each tank I boom, lose a point for each tank left on the battlefield. It's an outright absolute crushing victory if I end in the positives... >.> lol.

 Therion wrote:

1-2 AV14/AV13 dead per turn is nerfed O.O I am missing something. . . what other army could boast that?. . . . Anyone? Maybe DE and Eldar but not always. . .

Anyways AV14 is rather expensive so it should be a bit harder to take down.

A single 25 point Voltaic Staff causes 1,66 glances and 0,55 penetrating hits on a Land Raider. Assuming you equip each of your Night Scythe kill teams with just one, the Necrons can easily take out 3 Land Raiders in one shooting phase and have plenty left over for lighter targets The Eldar can't even get close to the Haywire/Gauss HP reduction madness.

The solution isn't to give every other army the same capability, it's to nerf Necrons because they're silly.

 gr1m_dan wrote:
@RogueRegault

It's NOT the easiest way though is it? You've got to get the guy into their back field alive (whilst facing probably every single gun in their force) to even get to a tank. Then you have 2 attacks to hit it on a 3+. Granted that's probably going to wreck face it's not a sound tactic.

2 x Hammerheads with one being Longstrike is what I shall be taking. I play IG so face quite a few LRusses. It's funny - in my last game it was my two HHs that took out the Russes first and NOT the Broadside!!!

Also - to those people moaning about "cookie clutter" lists because XV88 got nerfed...ermmm...that's exactly what cookie clutter was. They FORCED you to take XV88s because we had practically no other decent option. No we have so much Strength 7/8/9 weaponary glances and pens with HHs will be quite easy to get IMO. Especially with the new Fusion range and Stealths being bad ass.

EDIT - I CANNOT WAIT to falcon pawnch a tank :-D Completely non-Tau tactic and very risky and will result in many dead Battlesuits the turn after but just to see the reaction on my enemies face will be priceless.

Well I was mostly thinking of the Riptide smash in terms of the odd Land Raider. Which would then put your Riptide next to a squad of assault terminators, so not the brightest of ideas...

For traditional "sit back and shoot" tanks I'll probably use the Razorshark and zoom to their rear.



Is anyone else annoyed about systems that seem stifled because the writer didn't bother to consult the BRB?

Vectored Retro Thrusters give Hit and Run along with Fleet.

If you take drones in your squad you can't use Fleet.

If you don't take drones in your squad Hit and Run is made at I2 rather than I4.

 Therion wrote:

I just read that the early warning system war gear grants interceptor. I'm ok with S8 railguns on Broadsides now.

What's the price of this upgrade and how many units/models can get it? Interceptor gets free shots against all units that come from reserve, not just flyers, so it's probably the strongest special ability in the game at the moment.

It is an 5 points general suit support system. So any suit can take it. Just remember that Broadsides can only take 1 support system, so no Skyfire+Interceptor heavy rail rifles.

I think its incredily hard to be sure we can't come up with unique combos to deal with opposing Av14. Just with a quick thought I came up with the idea of having a suit cmdr with a nero chip in a broadside squad to start the game. (just at the start mind you) Shoot some marklights at that landraider you want dead. 3 marker hits = +1BS and no cover saves. The nero chip gives you tankhunter. So We would be shooting S9 twin linked AP1 railguns at the landraider with rerolls to pen. Thats effectively as good as having BS3 S10 railguns. With target lock those guys can shoot at different targets then their missile drones, and the drones can shoot at light vehicles with their missiles at effective S8 with rerolls to pen as well. Take a drone controller and call it a day. If your feeling froggy, get a ADL and Lascannon (I prefer it with all the helldrakes roaming around) and now the cmdr can ace flyers and have a S10 lascannon for the landraider as well.

Specifics aside, you just need to get creative.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Therion wrote:

I just read that the early warning system war gear grants interceptor. I'm ok with S8 railguns on Broadsides now.

What's the price of this upgrade and how many units/models can get it? Interceptor gets free shots against all units that come from reserve, not just flyers, so it's probably the strongest special ability in the game at the moment.

It is an 5 points general suit support system. So any suit can take it. Just remember that Broadsides can only take 1 support system, so no Skyfire+Interceptor heavy rail rifles.

Wait a second... Skyfire is also a support system? So everything has to choose whether it takes skyfire or interceptor or neither? Interceptor is only strongest when combined with skyfire naturally.

Coyote81 wrote:
I think its incredily hard to be sure we can't come up with unique combos to deal with opposing Av14. Just with a quick thought I came up with the idea of having a suit cmdr with a nero chip in a broadside squad to start the game. (just at the start mind you) Shoot some marklights at that landraider you want dead. 3 marker hits = +1BS and no cover saves. The nero chip gives you tankhunter. So We would be shooting S9 twin linked AP1 railguns at the landraider with rerolls to pen. Thats effectively as good as having BS3 S10 railguns. With target lock those guys can shoot at different targets then their missile drones, and the drones can shoot at light vehicles with their missiles at effective S8 with rerolls to pen as well. Take a drone controller and call it a day. If your feeling froggy, get a ADL and Lascannon (I prefer it with all the helldrakes roaming around) and now the cmdr can ace flyers and have a S10 lascannon for the landraider as well.

Specifics aside, you just need to get creative.

Where is the +1 S coming from?

 Therion wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Therion wrote:

I just read that the early warning system war gear grants interceptor. I'm ok with S8 railguns on Broadsides now.

What's the price of this upgrade and how many units/models can get it? Interceptor gets free shots against all units that come from reserve, not just flyers, so it's probably the strongest special ability in the game at the moment.

It is an 5 points general suit support system. So any suit can take it. Just remember that Broadsides can only take 1 support system, so no Skyfire+Interceptor heavy rail rifles.

Wait a second... Skyfire is also a support system? So everything has to choose whether it takes skyfire or interceptor or neither? Interceptor is only strongest when combined with skyfire naturally.

Yep. Skyfire is a 20 points general suit support system. Good thing is, that you can combine the two on Crisis suits but then you can have only one weapon (the Crisis can take 3 weapons/support systems in any combination). And no, these items only affect the model using them, and give nothing to its squad.

Does everyone of the "AV14" fan club actually play against that many Landraiders and such?!

Two H-Heads are going to be very versatile whilst still packing the S10 AP1 punch. They have sub munitions and secondary weapons so can provide close support once the tanks are dead.

I play against a lot of Guard, DE, SM and Chaos. Very RARELY do the SM and Chaos use Landraiders - they always prove practically useless and just a big points sink for little return. You have AV14 and much less else on the board? Good - more for me to wipe out. Wanna get close? Meet my fusion blasters. On the way in they are facing some S10 AP1 hits...oh no they will never hit / penetrate - of course they will but sometimes they won't, that's tabletop gaming for you.

Do not underestimate the power of the glance either ;-) I've probably killed more through glancing then outright pen!