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Backfire wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:


Sniper Drones have changed, they now have Longshot Pulse Rifles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire.

It's still two shots at 24" with a chance of rending, they look decent for the points.

That's awesome. It like a better Deathmark rifle.

However, will anyone take them? Heavy Support still seems extremely crowded. You're going to need Broadsides, you're going to need Railheads (you may even need Sky Ray if you're really paranoid about air threat). What slot do they fill in?

Fact is that other units in other FOC slots can do same job Sniper Drones do. Broadside & Hammerhead, by contrast, seem as irreplaceable as ever, despite their nerfing.

I disagree.

Heavy Support isn't all that great. I think Riptides fill the role of anti-armour so well that there's absolutely no need for Hammerheads.

Sorry to go singing the praises of the Riptide again but it's just so versatile. Nova charged Heavy Burst Cannon gives you 12 shots, with two markerlight counters you're hitting on 2+, that's around 10 hits. Now, you have a very good chance that a couple of those hits will rend, a couple of these can reliably deal with AV14 without even firing their twin-linked Fusion Blaster (Which will surely deal with it). For all the points of a Hammerhead you're getting a single S10 shot.

Broadsides are ok, they're quite expensive for what they do, but they do bring some Skyfire to the table. I'd maybe take a unit of 3 on top of a Quad-Gun and leave it at that for my anti-air.

Sniper Drone teams can have three markerlights per unit, and unlike most of the other markerlight-equipped units in the army, these are BS5, so you have some reliably placed markerlights.

18 shots at up to 24" hitting on 2+ with rending is nothing to sniff at. Majority T4 with Stealth, and relatively cheap for what they bring to the table.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think they actually made sniper drones worse. Yeah, it's BS5, but it's also in our only slot for reliable ranged anti-tank weaponry. It's even more vital not to crowd those slots, and I can't imagine sniper rifles having a place in it. I would have considered it if they stuck with rail rifles, or maybe sticking them in a slot that doesn't limit my options for anti-tank and anti-air.

Seriously though, does any other army have sniper rifles in their heavy support slot? I think my biggest complaint for this codex is they fixed so little of the old problems. Kroot suck in combat, Vespid are out shined by everything else, suits are the pinnacle of a shooting army but terrible shots, markerlights are almost required, markerlights don't help the squad, limited troop options, lack of a decent transport, markerlights are heavy weapons on a unit that is supposed to be mobile, and seeker missiles are too silly to really take seriously.

The Tau have never had the functionality that the sniper drones now bring to the table. They are strictly better and you're trying to tell me they aren't? They shoot farther, rapid fire so they can move and have sniper rules so they can rend. The only thing the rail rifle had was AP3, and even that was only helpful against MEQ.

 MajinMalak wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:


Sniper Drones have changed, they now have Longshot Pulse Rifles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire.

It's still two shots at 24" with a chance of rending, they look decent for the points.

That's awesome. It like a better Deathmark rifle.

However, will anyone take them? Heavy Support still seems extremely crowded. You're going to need Broadsides, you're going to need Railheads (you may even need Sky Ray if you're really paranoid about air threat). What slot do they fill in?

Fact is that other units in other FOC slots can do same job Sniper Drones do. Broadside & Hammerhead, by contrast, seem as irreplaceable as ever, despite their nerfing.

Completely agree with this. Plus if you want snipers, you have Kroot at 7 pts a pop. Taking two squads of 20 doesn't cost you many points, and will give you tons of chances to get rending compared to the 3 (or 6 at 24") shots.

For a start Kroot Rifles are half the range. You don't get BS5 Markerlights in a unit of Kroot, and Kroot will miss half of the time without using up markerlight counters. Let's be honest, you're not going to waste markerlight counters on Kroot...the great thing about the sniper drone team is that they reliably provide markerlight counters without being reliant on markerlights themselves.

Between 12" and 24", 20 Kroot with the upgrade will get 20 shots and 10 hits. They cost around 140 points.

6 Sniper Drones and 2 controllers costs 120 points, less than the Kroot. That's 12 shots and 10 hits on average + 2 Markerlight counters for an additional unit to use.

So yeah, there's the math, Sniper Drones are better, and cheaper than Kroot when it comes to shooting, unless you're within 12" of the target.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

Twin Plasma, some other weapon, Shield Generator, Drone Controller and Shield Drones will do nicely.

Just an FYI, a done controller means gun, shield and marker drones can use the users BS. So you don't really need it for SDs, feel free to have your Stim Injector

Thank you sir, may I have another sir?

I am still having difficulty figuring out which flyer to go with....they offer interchangeability for the most part either by swiveling in to place or easy mod changes to be made... with the one exception that there are only 4 ion rifles in the kit, so its either for your quad gun or your interceptor drones....real tough call on that...

what say all of you? has anyone made their decision yet?

i suppose one could proxy a bomber as a fighter and vice versa but...it kinda takes the fun out of it

 YotsubaSnake wrote:
The Tau have never had the functionality that the sniper drones now bring to the table. They are strictly better and you're trying to tell me they aren't? They shoot farther, rapid fire so they can move and have sniper rules so they can rend. The only thing the rail rifle had was AP3, and even that was only helpful against MEQ.

I can agree that snipers are better at taking down infantry, but that wasn't my point. My point was that with the reduction to the broadside and not being able to take tank squadrons, that now our Heavy Support slots are really sensitive and need to be filled correctly. There are plenty of ways to deal with infantry, including outflanking sniper kroot and the various overcharge blasts. So what are you going to do? Bring elite, troop, FA, AND Heavy Support options for anti-infantry purposes? Why? HS is limited, bring your AA and anti-tank and let the others handle infantry.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think they actually made sniper drones worse. Yeah, it's BS5, but it's also in our only slot for reliable ranged anti-tank weaponry. It's even more vital not to crowd those slots, and I can't imagine sniper rifles having a place in it. I would have considered it if they stuck with rail rifles, or maybe sticking them in a slot that doesn't limit my options for anti-tank and anti-air.

Seriously though, does any other army have sniper rifles in their heavy support slot? I think my biggest complaint for this codex is they fixed so little of the old problems. Kroot suck in combat, Vespid are out shined by everything else, suits are the pinnacle of a shooting army but terrible shots, markerlights are almost required, markerlights don't help the squad, limited troop options, lack of a decent transport, markerlights are heavy weapons on a unit that is supposed to be mobile, and seeker missiles are too silly to really take seriously.

I was hoping they'd end up like Scouts in the Troop Section. I'd give up the stealth or pay points for it to make that a reality. Although most armies only have 2 troop options.

Also, with the new partial squad movement rules, can't sniper drone's relocate as long as they stay in coherency with the immobile spotters? JSJ snipers sounds fun.

 lordofthegophers wrote:

 MajinMalak wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:


Sniper Drones have changed, they now have Longshot Pulse Rifles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire.

It's still two shots at 24" with a chance of rending, they look decent for the points.

That's awesome. It like a better Deathmark rifle.

However, will anyone take them? Heavy Support still seems extremely crowded. You're going to need Broadsides, you're going to need Railheads (you may even need Sky Ray if you're really paranoid about air threat). What slot do they fill in?

Fact is that other units in other FOC slots can do same job Sniper Drones do. Broadside & Hammerhead, by contrast, seem as irreplaceable as ever, despite their nerfing.

Completely agree with this. Plus if you want snipers, you have Kroot at 7 pts a pop. Taking two squads of 20 doesn't cost you many points, and will give you tons of chances to get rending compared to the 3 (or 6 at 24") shots.

For a start Kroot Rifles are half the range. You don't get BS5 Markerlights in a unit of Kroot, and Kroot will miss half of the time without using up markerlight counters. Let's be honest, you're not going to waste markerlight counters on Kroot...the great thing about the sniper drone team is that they reliably provide markerlight counters without being reliant on markerlights themselves.

Between 12" and 24", 20 Kroot with the upgrade will get 20 shots and 10 hits. They cost around 140 points.

6 Sniper Drones and 2 controllers costs 120 points, less than the Kroot. That's 12 shots and 10 hits on average + 2 Markerlight counters for an additional unit to use.

So yeah, there's the math, Sniper Drones are better, and cheaper than Kroot when it comes to shooting, unless you're within 12" of the target.

So what you're saying is that for 20 pts, I can have a troop choice that can claim and not take up one of my heavy support slots? It also gets double as effective over the sniper drones at 12" range? I'd take that.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 YotsubaSnake wrote:
The Tau have never had the functionality that the sniper drones now bring to the table. They are strictly better and you're trying to tell me they aren't? They shoot farther, rapid fire so they can move and have sniper rules so they can rend. The only thing the rail rifle had was AP3, and even that was only helpful against MEQ.

I can agree that snipers are better at taking down infantry, but that wasn't my point. My point was that with the reduction to the broadside and not being able to take tank squadrons, that now our Heavy Support slots are really sensitive and need to be filled correctly. There are plenty of ways to deal with infantry, including outflanking sniper kroot and the various overcharge blasts. So what are you going to do? Bring elite, troop, FA, AND Heavy Support options for anti-infantry purposes? Why? HS is limited, bring your AA and anti-tank and let the others handle infantry.

I think you're missing an even greater point here. The elite slots have always been just as good at anti-tank as heavy support. Infact, heavy support was always a bit better at anti-infantry because of the Hammerhead. The broadside was the only reliable anti-tank weapon in heavy support and it got a nerf. So the heavy supports are now really good at trashing enemy troops. So, how do I kill tanks? I hear that Fusion blasters got a buff and that new riptide suit is pretty awesome. Missile pods stayed the same, so it seems to me that Elites got even better at precision anti-armor. You can even take some of those elites in an HQ slot if you're so worried about that. That gives you up to 5 FOC slots of the most consistent anti-armor in the codex and you're complaining about heavy support not filling the role?

 lordofthegophers wrote:

 MajinMalak wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:


Sniper Drones have changed, they now have Longshot Pulse Rifles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire.

It's still two shots at 24" with a chance of rending, they look decent for the points.

That's awesome. It like a better Deathmark rifle.

However, will anyone take them? Heavy Support still seems extremely crowded. You're going to need Broadsides, you're going to need Railheads (you may even need Sky Ray if you're really paranoid about air threat). What slot do they fill in?

Fact is that other units in other FOC slots can do same job Sniper Drones do. Broadside & Hammerhead, by contrast, seem as irreplaceable as ever, despite their nerfing.

Completely agree with this. Plus if you want snipers, you have Kroot at 7 pts a pop. Taking two squads of 20 doesn't cost you many points, and will give you tons of chances to get rending compared to the 3 (or 6 at 24") shots.

For a start Kroot Rifles are half the range. You don't get BS5 Markerlights in a unit of Kroot, and Kroot will miss half of the time without using up markerlight counters. Let's be honest, you're not going to waste markerlight counters on Kroot...the great thing about the sniper drone team is that they reliably provide markerlight counters without being reliant on markerlights themselves.

Between 12" and 24", 20 Kroot with the upgrade will get 20 shots and 10 hits. They cost around 140 points.

6 Sniper Drones and 2 controllers costs 120 points, less than the Kroot. That's 12 shots and 10 hits on average + 2 Markerlight counters for an additional unit to use.

So yeah, there's the math, Sniper Drones are better, and cheaper than Kroot when it comes to shooting, unless you're within 12" of the target.

I think that heavy support is no longer our anti armor (oddly). Elite spots are now our heavy hitters. If markerlights are as important as they seem to be ATM I'd prefer to use 4 markers to boost a unit with a massive amount of shots vs 3 hits from a Broadside or 1 hit from a hammerhead.

 MajinMalak wrote:
So what you're saying is that for 20 pts, I can have a troop choice that can claim and not take up one of my heavy support slots? It also gets double as effective over the sniper drones at 12" range? I'd take that.

I'm not saying Kroot are a bad choice; I like them. More that the Sniper Drone Team are an effective and viable unit that bring a lot to the table, and that the competition in Heavy Support isn't really as hot as people are making out. Broadsides and Hammerheads are just a bit meh. As the above poster has pointed out, the best anti-armour in the Codex resides in Elites.

I'd rather have the three markerlights at BS5 to boost the rest of my army.

 YotsubaSnake wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 YotsubaSnake wrote:
The Tau have never had the functionality that the sniper drones now bring to the table. They are strictly better and you're trying to tell me they aren't? They shoot farther, rapid fire so they can move and have sniper rules so they can rend. The only thing the rail rifle had was AP3, and even that was only helpful against MEQ.

I can agree that snipers are better at taking down infantry, but that wasn't my point. My point was that with the reduction to the broadside and not being able to take tank squadrons, that now our Heavy Support slots are really sensitive and need to be filled correctly. There are plenty of ways to deal with infantry, including outflanking sniper kroot and the various overcharge blasts. So what are you going to do? Bring elite, troop, FA, AND Heavy Support options for anti-infantry purposes? Why? HS is limited, bring your AA and anti-tank and let the others handle infantry.

I think you're missing an even greater point here. The elite slots have always been just as good at anti-tank as heavy support. Infact, heavy support was always a bit better at anti-infantry because of the Hammerhead. The broadside was the only reliable anti-tank weapon in heavy support and it got a nerf. So the heavy supports are now really good at trashing enemy troops. So, how do I kill tanks? I hear that Fusion blasters got a buff and that new riptide suit is pretty awesome. Missile pods stayed the same, so it seems to me that Elites got even better at precision anti-armor. You can even take some of those elites in an HQ slot if you're so worried about that. That gives you up to 5 FOC slots of the most consistent anti-armor in the codex and you're complaining about heavy support not filling the role?

Agree with this 100%.

 lordofthegophers wrote:

 MajinMalak wrote:
So what you're saying is that for 20 pts, I can have a troop choice that can claim and not take up one of my heavy support slots? It also gets double as effective over the sniper drones at 12" range? I'd take that.

I'm not saying Kroot are a bad choice; I like them. More that the Sniper Drone Team are an effective and viable unit that bring a lot to the table, and that the competition in Heavy Support isn't really as hot as people are making out. Broadsides and Hammerheads are just a bit meh. As the above poster has pointed out, the best anti-armour in the Codex resides in Elites.

I'd rather have the three markerlights at BS5 to boost the rest of my army.

I'll agree with some of that. Elites do seem better at Anti-Tank with fusion and Mr. Riptide. Heavy does seem reserved for Anti-Infantry.

I'm just not sure if I believe sniper teams are effective. I'll reserve final judgement after I use them (which I'll give them a try a few times), but considering for roughly same pts (starting at 125) I could have a ionhead with a S8 AP3 large blast, not sure those snipers are worth it. Maybe for the markerlights ... maybe.

 lordofthegophers wrote:

Heavy Support isn't all that great. I think Riptides fill the role of anti-armour so well that there's absolutely no need for Hammerheads.

Sorry to go singing the praises of the Riptide again but it's just so versatile. Nova charged Heavy Burst Cannon gives you 12 shots, with two markerlight counters you're hitting on 2+, that's around 10 hits. Now, you have a very good chance that a couple of those hits will rend, a couple of these can reliably deal with AV14 without even firing their twin-linked Fusion Blaster (Which will surely deal with it). For all the points of a Hammerhead you're getting a single S10 shot.

...and Riptide's cannon has Range of only 36" (as do Markerlights), and Nova charge works on 3+. Sounds more like desperation maneuver to me.

I'm still wondering how Tau will deal with things like Psyrifleman spam. They weren't pushover even with S10 Railguns.

I don't think i saw it asked and i cant read spanish, Do broadsides have relentless/snp?

The fact that people are arguing about what to use in their limited FOC slots is an indicator that the codex is overall more varied, interesting and capable than before.

 Desubot wrote:
I don't think i saw it asked and i cant read spanish, Do broadsides have relentless/snp?

nope

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think they actually made sniper drones worse. Yeah, it's BS5, but it's also in our only slot for reliable ranged anti-tank weaponry. It's even more vital not to crowd those slots, and I can't imagine sniper rifles having a place in it. I would have considered it if they stuck with rail rifles, or maybe sticking them in a slot that doesn't limit my options for anti-tank and anti-air..

It is disappointing, but there is something else to consider here. Those Sniper Drones use Pulse weapons. Pulse Weapons can be boosted by having an Ethereal nearby. Yes while a Sniper Drone team might not do so well versus anything with an AV higher than 11, a barrage of 18 BS 5, poisoned, rending shots at 48 inches and 27 of them at 24 inches will rip up clusters of infantry and monstrous creatures nicely. What's more is that same barrage will have a goodly number of shots that can be directed at characters inside a formation. Very few units targeted by this unit will be able to get away without having to take a Pinning check and a Morale checke.

Heavy Support doesn't necessarily mean anti-tank. Taking down monstrous creatures and massed infantry formations are also a part of the equation. In traditional Tau narrow focus, the Sniper Drones excel at that but fall down when used outside of their particular focus. We got spoiled with Broadsides being able to spam high strength, low AP, accurate shots that could really be useful against everything but a horde. The new codex corrects that somewhat by making the Broadsides more specialized (no more anti-everything guns) and now we have to actually make hard decisions about our heavy support choices. However,w e also now have a change in options as well. Instead of relying on Heavy Support for Anti-Tank we now have more anti-tank options in Elite and Fast Attack. So if we load up in anti-tank there, then what do we need out of our Heavy Support? We can go with more anti-tank of course (Here come the Hammerheads) or we can go with anti aircraft (Broadsides and Skyrays). We can also punish light vehicles, infantry and monstrous creatures (Broadsides and Sniper Drones).

It's really about what way you build the rest of your army that says what units in Heavy Support are the best choices.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
I don't think i saw it asked and i cant read spanish, Do broadsides have relentless/snp?

nope

Well that is weak, and further more i don't recall seeing any access to A.S.S like in the last book...

Backfire wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:

Heavy Support isn't all that great. I think Riptides fill the role of anti-armour so well that there's absolutely no need for Hammerheads.

Sorry to go singing the praises of the Riptide again but it's just so versatile. Nova charged Heavy Burst Cannon gives you 12 shots, with two markerlight counters you're hitting on 2+, that's around 10 hits. Now, you have a very good chance that a couple of those hits will rend, a couple of these can reliably deal with AV14 without even firing their twin-linked Fusion Blaster (Which will surely deal with it). For all the points of a Hammerhead you're getting a single S10 shot.

...and Riptide's cannon has Range of only 36" (as do Markerlights), and Nova charge works on 3+. Sounds more like desperation maneuver to me.

I'm still wondering how Tau will deal with things like Psyrifleman spam. They weren't pushover even with S10 Railguns.

How many do you consider a spam?

Between Riptide / Hammerheads / Broadsides (With either weapon / Fusion on Stealths/Crisis / Falcon Punch / and overcharging Ion weaponary I'd say we have a few ways to deal with them. We just have to be a bit more thoughtful instead of "sit as far back as possible"

 YotsubaSnake wrote:

I think you're missing an even greater point here. The elite slots have always been just as good at anti-tank as heavy support. Infact, heavy support was always a bit better at anti-infantry because of the Hammerhead. The broadside was the only reliable anti-tank weapon in heavy support and it got a nerf. So the heavy supports are now really good at trashing enemy troops. So, how do I kill tanks? I hear that Fusion blasters got a buff and that new riptide suit is pretty awesome. Missile pods stayed the same, so it seems to me that Elites got even better at precision anti-armor. You can even take some of those elites in an HQ slot if you're so worried about that. That gives you up to 5 FOC slots of the most consistent anti-armor in the codex and you're complaining about heavy support not filling the role?

The hammerhead template was decent at anti-infantry but I wouldn't say it was effective at reliably taking down enemy troops. My point was also with dealing with enemy armor at range. I hear that suits got 18" fusion blasters, but last I checked some IG tanks can afford to stay in the backfield and will have a buffer unit around it. I'm still expecting elites to be forcused on taking down MEQ and TEQ infantry, with Heavy Support gear towards anti-armor and anti-air, leaving the Riptide to fill the space between.

Point being, is that Heavy Support snipers are pointless when you can take outflanking snipers that are also scoring and are in a slot that doesn't get filled easy.

 Desubot wrote:
I don't think i saw it asked and i cant read spanish, Do broadsides have relentless/snp?

I cant find anything that suggests relentless or any gear that grants it.

catagorized as standard infantry...
cant find any special rule that would give it relentless
even in support systems I cant find anything..

If i am wrong someone please correct me and tell me what page...

Hans_Einberg wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
I don't think i saw it asked and i cant read spanish, Do broadsides have relentless/snp?

I cant find anything that suggests relentless or any gear that grants it.

catagorized as standard infantry...
cant find any special rule that would give it relentless
even in support systems I cant find anything..

If i am wrong someone please correct me and tell me what page...

Jet Pack Units are relentless according to the BRB.

Broadsides on the other hand ... still cannot move and fire their Heavy Rail Rifles.

Not sure If I'm that bothered about Broadsides losing Relentless. I very rarely moved with them, and when I did it was when things got close up (so could use my Plasma anyway).

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Seriously though, does any other army have sniper rifles in their heavy support slot? I think my biggest complaint for this codex is they fixed so little of the old problems. Kroot suck in combat, Vespid are out shined by everything else, suits are the pinnacle of a shooting army but terrible shots, markerlights are almost required, markerlights don't help the squad, limited troop options, lack of a decent transport, markerlights are heavy weapons on a unit that is supposed to be mobile, and seeker missiles are too silly to really take seriously.

Hear hear. Second biggest complaint from me (after vehicle nerf) is that most of the units which sucked in the old book and we wished would be better or more varied in upcoming Codex, aren't:

-Vespid: essentially same as before. Some well-needed buffs are offset by increased cost and the fact that other choices in the Codex are still so much better. Got ZERO new options!
-Sniper Drones: It didn't matter how good they were, you needed HS slots for Railguns. Now...you need HS slots for Railguns. Next...
-Piranha: Okay but undergunned in 5th, surely it's better now? Well you betcha mate! Fusion Blaster is better, Gun Drones are better, Burst cannon is better...no wait...you can't take Targeting array anymore. Or Target lock. Or go flat out and shoot Seekers. Not to mention how lightly armoured HP2 vehicles blow in general under 6th ed rules. Sigh.
-Sky Ray: most beautiful tank in the game, oh how I have stared you many a night and wished you weren't garbage. Well, at least now it can actually hit flyers. But otherwise, it's still garbage. Did I mention how HS slots are needed for Railguns?
-Stealth suits: letsee, they have same statline...same points costs...same special rules...almost exactly same options than before. Hey, Burst cannon got extra shot! Well, I guess that's better than nothing.
-Kroot: decent but limited previously, but essentially only unit which didn't totally suck in Close combat, surely this was a place for big improvements given very rich existing Kroot background. What did they get? Well, they lose Strength...and lost Attack...hey wait a minute, those aren't improvements! Kroot Shaper is same, Krootox is same, Hounds are almost same. Oh well, they can buy sniper rounds. Thus allowing them to shoot at roughly same level as Fire Warriors, except Fire Warriors can move, have longer range, have Supporting fire and don't die as easily.
-Devilfish. Best way to improve previously underperforming unit is to keep the cost same and take away those few options which sometimes made it decent. Right?
-Drone squadrons. Ok, finally an unit which DID get much better. It wasn't so hard, was it?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gr1m_dan wrote:

Backfire wrote:

I'm still wondering how Tau will deal with things like Psyrifleman spam. They weren't pushover even with S10 Railguns.

How many do you consider a spam?

Between Riptide / Hammerheads / Broadsides (With either weapon / Fusion on Stealths/Crisis / Falcon Punch / and overcharging Ion weaponary I'd say we have a few ways to deal with them. We just have to be a bit more thoughtful instead of "sit as far back as possible"

Problem is, that's what the enemy will be doing. Your Falcon Punch has 1 inch range, and your suit isn't Bruce Lee.

We had Fusions, EMP grenades, Ion cannons in the previous book too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajinMalak wrote:

Jet Pack Units are relentless according to the BRB.

Broadsides on the other hand ... still cannot move and fire their Heavy Rail Rifles.

They can move & shoot. They just have to fire Snap shots, and you have to expend Markerlight counters so you might hit something with them.

It's same reason why we lost Targeting Array and Multitracker. To make us use more Markerlights because without them we won't be hitting anything. Some real subtle Codex design there.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 YotsubaSnake wrote:

I think you're missing an even greater point here. The elite slots have always been just as good at anti-tank as heavy support. Infact, heavy support was always a bit better at anti-infantry because of the Hammerhead. The broadside was the only reliable anti-tank weapon in heavy support and it got a nerf. So the heavy supports are now really good at trashing enemy troops. So, how do I kill tanks? I hear that Fusion blasters got a buff and that new riptide suit is pretty awesome. Missile pods stayed the same, so it seems to me that Elites got even better at precision anti-armor. You can even take some of those elites in an HQ slot if you're so worried about that. That gives you up to 5 FOC slots of the most consistent anti-armor in the codex and you're complaining about heavy support not filling the role?

The hammerhead template was decent at anti-infantry but I wouldn't say it was effective at reliably taking down enemy troops. My point was also with dealing with enemy armor at range. I hear that suits got 18" fusion blasters, but last I checked some IG tanks can afford to stay in the backfield and will have a buffer unit around it. I'm still expecting elites to be forcused on taking down MEQ and TEQ infantry, with Heavy Support gear towards anti-armor and anti-air, leaving the Riptide to fill the space between.

Point being, is that Heavy Support snipers are pointless when you can take outflanking snipers that are also scoring and are in a slot that doesn't get filled easy.

Kroot snipers are pointless when they have half the effective range, less accuracy and die to pretty much anything looking at them. If the kroot could shoot something once, the drones can shoot them twice AND leave a markerlight for another unit to use. Also, you're looking at this from a very narrow angle in terms of capturing points. They can't capture points if they don't have any scoring units either. Protect your firewarriors, capture key points and keep them from capturing anything of value.

Here is going to be a fun question. The drone controller allows you to use the BS of the model with the drone controller. If that model has skyfire would they then be using his BS against the flyer as well?

 Hulksmash wrote:
Here is going to be a fun question. The drone controller allows you to use the BS of the model with the drone controller. If that model has skyfire would they then be using his BS against the flyer as well?

My gut feeling is that they'll shoot with the BS of the controller, but as they lack the skyfire rule THEMSELVES, they'll be reduced to snap shooting...so will need 6s.

 MajinMalak wrote:

Hans_Einberg wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
I don't think i saw it asked and i cant read spanish, Do broadsides have relentless/snp?

I cant find anything that suggests relentless or any gear that grants it.

catagorized as standard infantry...
cant find any special rule that would give it relentless
even in support systems I cant find anything..

If i am wrong someone please correct me and tell me what page...

Jet Pack Units are relentless according to the BRB.

Broadsides on the other hand ... still cannot move and fire their Heavy Rail Rifles.

Super duper weak, and if i recall everything but the TL- plasmas are heavy.. man there goes another plan to outflank backfield broadsides.

shade1313 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Here is going to be a fun question. The drone controller allows you to use the BS of the model with the drone controller. If that model has skyfire would they then be using his BS against the flyer as well?

My gut feeling is that they'll shoot with the BS of the controller, but as they lack the skyfire rule THEMSELVES, they'll be reduced to snap shooting...so will need 6s.

Don't you multi/divide then add/subtract then apply set modifiers? I will just chose to set BS to 1 for shooting at a hard to hit model, then apply the drone controller rule. Codex overrules BRB.