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The new book doesn't need to make ork boyz cheaper. We can already barely fit our models on the table to begin with.

What the new book needs to do is take the pressure off our boyz and make the other slots in our dex worthwhile choices again. Right now, it seems so much off the ork army depends on using boyz to answer threats. Kill troops? Throw boyz at it. Tanks? Boyz to deliver a PK. Elite close combat? The boyz will probably have to handle it.

If nobz were cheaper, tank hunters were more reliable anti-tank, etc, the humble boy wouldn't have to handle everything in the game alone.

Cheaper boyz? Im all for that but theyre already cheap as it is for what you get. Any cheaper and id be afraid theyd get a stat drop or cant take a nob with pk or something.

I'd like to see the Ork biker cover save given to all ork vehicles (or at least Trukks/buggies).

Trukks are fast....and that is about it. They simply can't move enough boyz or be taken in vast enough numbers to be terribly effective imo.

I'd also like to see something to represent the resilience of orks. In all the fluff orks are portrayed as a race that can continue fighting with crippling, or even lethal, wounds. Yet all we get to represent that is a measly 6+ save and T4. Yeah T4 is good and all, but you see FNP handed out like candy to marines of all colors.

I'm not saying I want FNP across the board, but just something that makes my orks resemble the fluff a little better.

I really like the sound of the mek tank so far.

A return of flexible ork retinues for bosses and such would also be great and very characterful.

 Grot 6 wrote:
These so called rumors make me want to puke.

2d edition, here i come.

I'm with you, man.

 Dendarien wrote:
I'd like to see the Ork biker cover save given to all ork vehicles (or at least Trukks/buggies).

Trukks are fast....and that is about it. They simply can't move enough boyz or be taken in vast enough numbers to be terribly effective imo.

I'd also like to see something to represent the resilience of orks. In all the fluff orks are portrayed as a race that can continue fighting with crippling, or even lethal, wounds. Yet all we get to represent that is a measly 6+ save and T4. Yeah T4 is good and all, but you see FNP handed out like candy to marines of all colors.

I'm not saying I want FNP across the board, but just something that makes my orks resemble the fluff a little better.

I really like the sound of the mek tank so far.

A return of flexible ork retinues for bosses and such would also be great and very characterful.

Keep the 6+ armor save, and add a 6+ FNP save?

Besides, I'm liking some of these random rules. I don't mind random as long as they do em right! (Why were Zappa's made to hit at BS again? They should've stayed autohit!)

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Count me amongst the few who think Flash Gits are not so broken in the current 'dex. They are simply in the wrong FOC slot. If they were Elite and had access to designated transports, people would be taking them in droves, hurrying them to the frontlines to deliver a volley of much-needed AP:2 shots. As they stand now, you need to waste TWO of your precious HS slots for a single, moderately-viable unit.

Yeah, most mind-boggling mistake of the current Ork codex is that Flash Gitz don't get dedicated transport.

Current Ork codex is still very good, with solid basis. Biggest mistake GW could do is if they do a complete overhaul and give every unit some random "Orkz rulez!" -rule where you roll a dice for a random effect each turn, or some other similar nonsense. IMO, what the codex needs is just a facelift - don't fix stuff which isn't broken. New options and new rules for units which are too useless or too bland. That'll do.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:

How is it a misconception when the picture in the Dex is clearly a Russ with Orks bitz all over it. The misconception is what everyone builds them off of. I know what they are made from. The thing is the last ed codex you got to choose which model you got to loot. If you wanted a russ you got a russ. If you wanted a Rhino you got a rhino. I have no problme with it being less armor then a russ after all it was damaged during battle and what not. But to drop a russ from AV14 to AV11 is a bit much.

I disagree again... what is pictured is a variant of a looted wagon, not a looted russ... it has similar characteristics like a heapon weapon up front exposed tracks and a turret, but chimeras have all those as well... Im not trying to be difficult, im just saying a looted vehicle can be made from 50 different tanks rolled into one, that does not mean it was a russ... it may have parts from a russ but it is not a russ

but I do like what you had to say about plastic MANZ and the stormboyz... metal/finecast can get f$%@ing expensive

Currently, nobs are challenge bait. Almost any other army can pluck your nob or remove his attacks from combat at the beginning of the turn. PK, choppa or otherwise. That is something that needs to be addressed - whether it is through rerolls from boys or a waagh power generated I don't care. But currently nobs are useless.

Meganobs are freaking great, until you get hit with a black mace. Then you are dead. But there is really nothing you can do about that.

They can add grots and reconfigure abilities, but until Orks are able to do something in close combat effectively, they are going to continue to be taken as a shooting style force. I bet they chance the shoota stats though. They do in every release.

 Kroothawk wrote:
I am a bit concerned about the flood of early playtest information within a few days. Sure, there are rumours of Tyranids and Orks in 2014/2015, so early playtesting could be done now. Still weird. Let's not take this too seriously.

I know what you mean. HOWEVER, folks have been saying that the codices we've been getting lately are coming out at this crazy rate because they've been in the can for quite a while now. So it's logical that the designers would have moved on to Orks, Tyranids, SMs, etc. Doesn't make the rumors accurate, but it suggests that they're plausible.

Certain things about these rumors I think we can take with less salt than others.

The Telly-porta Nobz hinted at earlier make sense, it corresponds with other rumors out there pertaining to models of this unit. The new tank with the Shokk Attack gun *could* be the "Gun Fortress" model that was hinted at.

However, other things like these changes to Flash Gitz make a lot less sense and I'm inclined to think that they are just playtest rules. Flash Gitz would be useless if they had to roll for random range AND for random AP on their Snazzguns. My guess is this was a playtest rule that made Snazzguns AP2 or AP3 and rolled randomly for range instead.

Well, I might as well throw in what I've managed to cobble together from my sources... these are third-hand, mostly old and from a less than reliable source who has a bad habit of passing on their own speculation alongside actual facts, but I get the impression that they are about as good as the other stuff posted in this thread. Add generous helpings of salt.

The ork codex is still a long way off (late next year at the soonest). At least some of the models have been designed, but there shouldn't really be any kind of playtesting going on yet. Orks are fairly steady sellers, so GW is more interested in reviving 'stagnant' lines, like Tau, Tyranids, Eldar and SoB at the moment.

Grots are not likely to feature heavily. The grot mob box set isn't a great seller and GW apparently take that to mean that there isn't much interest in grot-heavy forces.

Boarboyz and other feral ork units probably won't get into the codex. Apparently GW has no objection to FW doing a feral ork list, which means they don't intend to explore that aspect in their main range. This doesn't mean that FW will do a feral orks list, just that someone over there was interested enough to ask about it.

All the new plastic ork kits will have options to make at least two different units. GW are pushing heavily to make all new kits multi-purpose, to minimise shelf space needed and reduce the risk of some kits not selling well. Apparently the ork range will push this concept further than we have seen before, with some kits being able to make radically different units.

One kit may be able to make a wartrakk, a chariot, an artillery piece or a special character (presumably Wazzdakka). The same bits are used in multiple roles (the example I was given was that one piece could be a rocket, an engine or a fuel tank, thanks to moving a few small bits around).

Another kit makes a looted wagon which can be either a transport or a couple of different types of tank. It seems that the transport variant may be a dedicated transport for some units. It looks more like a rhino than a leman russ.

Apparently there was a concept for a kit which could make several deffkoptas or one big flyer. This was considered a good idea, but actually designing the kit proved to be tricky. There were some concerns that it would be too complicated for the GW 'target market' to assemble.

Designs for buggies, big guns and mega-armour have supposedly been done for quite some time, but may have been sent back to the drawing-board to add new options since they weren't expected to be viable releases as they were.

At one stage it was suggested that the buggy kit could make three normal buggies or two heavy buggies (with six wheels and two sets of weapons each), but that would mean releasing it as a 'large' kit, which would cause some issues (as far as I can tell, the size and price points of kits are decided fairly early in the design process and changing them around is a lot of hassle).

Mega-armour could possibly be released as a single-figure meganob / big mek kit. This is the most likely kit to be seen before the main release. Very unlikely to be cheaper than the current finecast models, but supposedly better looking with more options.

There will probably only be one infantry box coming out with the codex. It should be a small group of 'high-value' infantry, with the option of building them as flash gitz or a couple of different 'new' units (cybork skarboyz and madboyz). Four 'standard' models and one character, who is dressed in a long coat and can be a nob, a painboy or a weirdboy, plus a squig and a runt.

Plastic blister-pack characters (like you get in fantasy) are supposed to be coming for 40k, but it seems that they are only designed fairly late in the process of getting ready for an army release so they won't have been worked on yet beyond the rough concept stage. Likewise, finecast characters aren't likely to be sculpted yet. Finecast boxed kits, rather than blisters, are supposed to be phased out, so don't expect to see any new ones by the time the ork release happens.

Finally, it seems that some existing kits may be repackaged as multi-purpose kits. For example the current ork boyz kit could be sold as a dual shoota-boyz/choppa-boyz kit and the battlewagon could be used to make two 'different' vehicles (basically making dedicated transport battlewagons a different army list entry with a new name). These are not new kits, just new packaging.

Interesting info. Everything you say makes good sense.

Welcome to rumor mongering, PO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More Natfka stuff:

via an anonymous source
I dont think this is for a new Orks Codex, or a new Codex at all yet though. This is what is being worked on.

grot boss - a big grot almost an ork.
Gretchin Weirdling - grot psyker. Lvl1. Upgrade to lvl 2. Access to divination, gork, and mork lists
Killa kans in elite.
Gretchin - can take control collars no ork herder like in ork list. 5-20 unit. Cheaper than ork codex gretchin by a pt. Can take whirlybird or looted wagon as dt
Squig runts- sounds like 40k equivalent of squig hoppers
Whirlybird – looks like a Huey hit with ork hammer, bomb doors underneath to drop gretchin
Grot scootas - rocket propelled skateboarders? Squad of 5-10. Hvy bolter profile weapon.
Grot buggies - drive by assault 8 grot blastas
Grot rocket - single shot roket with large range and big blast.

Big Guns – control collar option again, the ones from ork codex, plus a flakk gun with skyfire

There is some cool stuff here. I do hope that they fix flash gitz but all that i have read here does not look good.

stormboy wrote:
Currently, nobs are challenge bait. Almost any other army can pluck your nob or remove his attacks from combat at the beginning of the turn. PK, choppa or otherwise. That is something that needs to be addressed - whether it is through rerolls from boys or a waagh power generated I don't care. But currently nobs are useless.

Meganobs are freaking great, until you get hit with a black mace. Then you are dead. But there is really nothing you can do about that.

They can add grots and reconfigure abilities, but until Orks are able to do something in close combat effectively, they are going to continue to be taken as a shooting style force. I bet they chance the shoota stats though. They do in every release.

I kinda wish you could take like, 1 nob per 15 boyz in a mob or something. That would solve it pretty nicely but you end up having less boyz.

Natfka again wrote:Grot Whirlybird -
*Looks like a old Vietname War Hellicopter, big bulged bubble cockpit/body, skinny tail boom.
*About twice as big as the ork DefKoptas. Concept is the doors of the main body open on the
bottom like an old bomber to drop the Grots on to the battlefield.
*Cannot carry Orks or Bulky/Very Bulky models.
*Can drop Grots at any point along path travelled in movement phase only if not Zooming.
*Placement like deepstrike, but scatter is reduced if hovering.

 Billagio wrote:


I kinda wish you could take like, 1 nob per 15 boyz in a mob or something. That would solve it pretty nicely but you end up having less boyz.

There are a LOT of ways I can think of to fix the challenge mechanic. MOSTLY I just wish GW would errata the challenge section completely so that it makes sense... i.e. "Sacrificial" challenges aren't so beneficial. 6th Edition rules makes it such that in many close combats, the weaker character WANTS to challenge the stronger character just to keep the stronger character out of the fight. When the weaker character dies, that player pays no penalty for challenging a fight that he knew his character couldn't win. It's stupid. My Warboss should be able to crush a 5-Man tactical squad single-handedly in one turn. Instead, any smart player will challenge him, forcing him to take two turns to do the same thing.

Anyways, back to Orks.

I could see a mechanic for buying Nobz per number of Boyz. Great idea. I could also see this same thing for Painboyz and Mekboyz as well.

I could also see a mechanic whereby "Mob Rule" makes Orks immune to challenges as long as they are Fearless. Orks could issue challenges, but choose to ignore challenges that were issued to them with no consequences.

Due to all the recent codex-creep of lowering costs, I'm sure you can bet on our Boyz going down to 5 or even 4 points per Ork though. So we'll have more points for Nobz and other toys.

Murrdox wrote:
My Warboss should be able to crush a 5-Man tactical squad single-handedly in one turn. Instead, any smart player will challenge him, forcing him to take two turns to do the same thing.

Umm. No.

You charge the Tac Squad. Tac Squad wants to lose this combat so that you are stuck in the open. Any smart player will decline the challenge, get beat up, fall back and then laugh as your Warboss gets gunned down.

If that 'smart' player did what you said, your warboss would be free to charge a unit without getting shot at on your turn.

 pretre wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
My Warboss should be able to crush a 5-Man tactical squad single-handedly in one turn. Instead, any smart player will challenge him, forcing him to take two turns to do the same thing.

Umm. No.

You charge the Tac Squad. Tac Squad wants to lose this combat so that you are stuck in the open. Any smart player will decline the challenge, get beat up, fall back and then laugh as your Warboss gets gunned down.

If that 'smart' player did what you said, your warboss would be free to charge a unit without getting shot at on your turn.

It's simple example I cooked up in 5 minutes to demonstrate how "challenges" can be issued not to win the challenge, but to minimize casualties. I was only citing a micro-example of a 5 man squad vs. a Warboss. I wasn't providing an entire scenario. I don't think you understood the example correctly.

I'll expand so you understand a bit better.

Warboss charges Tactical Squad. Tactical Squad issues challenge to Warboss, which he cannot refuse. Warboss kills the Sergeant, wins combat. Tactical squad can then either choose to stay stuck in combat for another turn, for reinforcements to join combat against the Warboss, or they can voluntarily fail their morale, fall back, and gun down the Warboss as you'd said earlier. You've only lost one marine in the process.

In 5th edition, there was no such option. If a Warboss charged a Tactical squad you're likely down at least 3 or 4 marines, and possibly wipe them out.

Why wouldn't a Warboss want to accept the challenge? Orks are always up for squishing upstart 'umies.

Awesome. Can't wait for some new grots and nobz. Finally a flash gitz squad too. Anyone know wen these will be released?

I'm seriously wondering if we aren't hearing rumors of a grot army from an allies book. We've already seen artwork codes for Genestealer Cult...

Like I said... I'm speculating.

Murrdox wrote:
The Mek Tank sounds essentially like the Mek Junka from Imperial Armour.

And based on GW's stance on copy/pasting Forgeworld units, I think I can safely say faaaake. Never mind the ridiculous grot-only codex (I mean ridiculous as in "GW would never do it," I actually love the concept)

I like what I'm hearing so far. I really hope they tweek our waagh rule some. Maybe make it so we could charge after we run, provided we waaaghed that turn or something. Would also like them to do something about challenges. It's just useless. My nobs a pretty much just a meatsheild to buy my boys an extra turn to tie up a beast character, not even worth buying power klaws anymore.

Really hoping for zog wort and wazzdakka model. And plastic manz please. Anything else is just icing for me.

I am a little bummed about an actual looted wagon kit though. I liked the creativity of being able to loot anything, but if they make an actual kit for it then were stuck with that kit instead off having veriaty.

 l0k1 wrote:
Just saw this on Bols and figured I'd share. Please take with usual salt as its pretty early for Ork rumors, but they do share the current ork fun.



http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/03/faeits-40k-rumor-tarot-tau-orks-incoming.html



from Larry Vela here on Bols

NEW UNITS
*Mek Tank – Sporting a giant Shokk Attack Gun, firing Bomb Squigs. Tank can purchase a KFF.
UNIT UPDATES
*Flashgits - Their Snazz guns roll for random range each turn (12+3d6). On a triple 1 they overheat like Gets Hot. The unit may purchase upgrades like +1 BS, +1A, blast, rapid fire, skyfire, ans others, several are mutually exclusive.
*Boys - cheaper!
*Meks - Look for ability to field an increased number of Deffdreads and Kanns than currently.
*Stormboyz - Gain a "Rocket boost" attack that can target flyers. They must move 18” and if they pass a flyer they each get 2 attacks on it as if assaulting a vehicle. Move as infantry during their next turn. Looks like the designers played a lot of THQ's Space Marine!
*Buggys / Trakks - May tank shock if they are upgraded with spiked plates/wheels.


Part 2 from Larry Vela

NEW HQs
*"Grot Boss" Grot with a stateline of a Ork Boy, but higher BS. Equipped with a nice kustom-mega-shoota as an option. Can also get a Buggy or take a Killa-kan as a transport/upgrade
*"Da Crew" An HQ unit of even bigger Nobs. They have odd LoS modifications, One Nob must be nominated as "Da Boss", and if Da Boss is killed, one of Da Crew is promoted. This interacts in some new way with "Kill the Warlord" victory conditions, and is effectively an entire "warlord unit".
NEW UNITS
*Grot Whirlybird: Rotored transport: Capacity 20 Grots. They get dumped on the battlefield roughly from the Whirlybird taking a mandatory DT test, and cause mayhem if they fall atop another unit.
*Grots Buggys: Similar to Nob Bikers, but are buggies with Grots on the back and Orks behind the wheel! Drive-by attacks. Highly likely this will be an "alternate unit" for a buggy combo-unit box.

Gretchin/ Grots
This bit came in to me over on Faeit 212 by two separate sources, and its not completely clear whether the following will be in the Ork codex, or if it will be part of an allied supplement that may be coming.

Part 1

*I dont think this is for a new Orks Codex, or a new Codex at all yet though.
*grot boss - a big grot almost an ork.
*Gretchin Weirdling - grot psyker. Lvl1. Upgrade to lvl 2. Access to divination, gork, and mork lists
*Killa kans in elite.
*Gretchin - can take control collars no ork herder like in ork list. 5-20 unit. Cheaper than ork codex gretchin by a pt. Can take whirlybird or looted wagon as dt
*Squig runts- sounds like 40k equivalent of squig hoppers
*Whirlybird – looks like a Huey hit with ork hammer, bomb doors underneath to drop gretchin
*Grot scootas - rocket propelled skateboarders? Squad of 5-10. Hvy bolter profile weapon.
*Grot buggies - drive by assault 8 grot blastas
*Grot rocket - single shot roket with large range and big blast.
*Big Guns – control collar option again, the ones from ork codex, plus a flakk gun with skyfire


Part 2

*Grot Whirlybird -
*Looks like a old Vietname War Hellicopter, big bulged bubble cockpit/body, skinny tail boom.
*About twice as big as the ork DefKoptas. Concept is the doors of the main body open on the
bottom like an old bomber to drop the Grots on to the battlefield.
*Cannot carry Orks or Bulky/Very Bulky models.
*Can drop Grots at any point along path travelled in movement phase only if not Zooming.
*Placement like deepstrike, but scatter is reduced if hovering.

I don't think Boyz will be cheaper. They are already priced appropriately.

Looking forward to tabling some smug Ork players. Can't stand most of them.

These rumors look like a hot mess.

The last codex was one of the best going, then in the space of a few months crapped all over it in anticipation for the sixth edition trainwreck.

Loves me some orks, hates me some GW.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
The Mek Tank sounds essentially like the Mek Junka from Imperial Armour.

And based on GW's stance on copy/pasting Forgeworld units, I think I can safely say faaaake. Never mind the ridiculous grot-only codex (I mean ridiculous as in "GW would never do it," I actually love the concept)

Trygons say "Sup?".

stormboy wrote:

 Bangbangboom wrote:
And what is wrong with random elements and silliness in an ork army?

Nothing, so long as the randomness isn't mandatory. I love the shokk and trukk rules - I just don't want my entire army based on it. A little sprinkled in for flavor is fine but to add more than there is currently might push it a little too far for my tastes.

Yes, i can live without a lot of the silliness GW has dished out lately. Somehow 'wacky' and 'unreliable' don't seem to give a points decrease. Losing games because units decide to just sit and argue is something I've had to put up with in WFB, and has resulted in about 6k of orcs not leaving the shelf.

Some of those rumors are odd. So what if stormboyz can attack a flyer? Hows does str 3 or 4 attacks damage most anything except an ork flyer?

I'm hoping that things like Flak truks make it into the list.

 mikhaila wrote:
Hows does str 3 or 4 attacks damage most anything except an ork flyer?

Rear armor 10.

 pretre wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Hows does str 3 or 4 attacks damage most anything except an ork flyer?

Rear armor 10.

That's still Str 9 if you roll all 6's. Won't do much to that Razorwing or that Valkyrie.