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NoArmorSave wrote:
But I don't want to play Malifaux, or WH\Hordes, or any of that other crap. They don't hold a candle to 40K, and GW knows it.

Sure you can buy a cheap Malifaux army, but so what? It is not a massive battle in a sci-fi universe with vehicles, super human soldiers
in power armour, hordes of space orks, massive guns, and hordes of daemons.

There is no real competition for 40K, and that is GW's saving grace. I honestly don't see there being real competition within the next 10 years either.

Huge deja vu here. I said almost exactly this to some guy pushing FoW around two years ago. The thing is, though, 40k is a terrible example of a wargaming system to use as a baseline comparison. It's still got its good points, and the thought of leaving it behind entirely pains me, but its rule system (and codex balance) is to something like Malifaux what FATAL is to D&D: a convoluted, haphazard mess that does a grave disservice to the image of the entire genre.

No other game possesses 40k's few strengths, true, but the big competitors also lack its glaring flaws. Malifaux might only involve less than a dozen models on a side (usually), and its fluff is kind of... well, it reminds me a lot of earlier 40k/rogue trader stuff, there's a lot of the same tone, and the unpolished feeling that decades of refinement have driven out of 40k's fluff, but unlike 40k half the armies aren't just one army with different suggested paint schemes, every faction (and almost every Master) manages to be interesting, varied, and balanced, and the rules aren't a ramshackle mess of random WHFB elements and deliberate buffing of the Necron codex. Wyrd also doesn't contribute to Mat "I'm intentionally messing up these editions because trololololololo" Ward's continued employment.

The reason GW does not care about its reputation among adults is because adults are not its current target audience. Their strategy is churning and burning the 11-15 year old boy demographic.

They are kicking out veterans of their "hobby centers" and no one past age 12 should be buying WD magazine at this time.

GW has also decided to distance themselves from tournaments which at one time they supported with prizes and trophies. Anyone else recall the Rogue Trader Outrider program? I think they have given up on tournaments because it appeals to an older age group. I am aware of the throne of skulls but that is just token support and there is zero support for tourneys in NA.

If you are going to continue to enjoy GW games I think you just have to get to grips with the fact that GW is not interested in marketing to and developing their games for people over the age of 16. From the mouths of their own development team at seminars and games day events they have said that they are not terribly concerned about producing high quality and clearly written rules. Of course the proof of that has long been in the pudding. This is not an approach one would take if your target was an adult audience.

Perhaps someday GW will change its approach and market to adults and children. Until then, there is just no reason to try and get GW to pay attention to the fact that their policies are retrogressive and generating a lot of ill will. They dont care, you can just go away, your in the way of reaching out to Timmy twelve year old.

I dunno what Ravenous is talking about....GW's sales volume increased last year as did their profits....it's why they paid a bonus to every employee....the company hit it's target of 6% growth.

JWhex wrote:
The reason GW does not care about its reputation among adults is because adults are not its current target audience. Their strategy is churning and burning the 11-15 year old boy demographic.

They are kicking out veterans of their "hobby centers" and no one past age 12 should be buying WD magazine at this time.

GW has also decided to distance themselves from tournaments which at one time they supported with prizes and trophies. Anyone else recall the Rogue Trader Outrider program? I think they have given up on tournaments because it appeals to an older age group. I am aware of the throne of skulls but that is just token support and there is zero support for tourneys in NA.

If you are going to continue to enjoy GW games I think you just have to get to grips with the fact that GW is not interested in marketing to and developing their games for people over the age of 16. From the mouths of their own development team at seminars and games day events they have said that they are not terribly concerned about producing high quality and clearly written rules. Of course the proof of that has long been in the pudding. This is not an approach one would take if your target was an adult audience.

Perhaps someday GW will change its approach and market to adults and children. Until then, there is just no reason to try and get GW to pay attention to the fact that their policies are retrogressive and generating a lot of ill will. They dont care, you can just go away, your in the way of reaching out to Timmy twelve year old.

Nailed it.

I used to joke that I would be ashamed and give up the hobby if I ever lost to anyone under the age of 18, now 1/2 of people I see in GWs are 14-18, real competition there has plummeted and is full of newest-codex-children who talk all day but don't show up to take their medicine when it is time to roll the dice; I'm tired of going there and feeling like I'm the one whose out of place & I actually saw a manager ask a dude to leave because he had visible tattoos that are were not "family friendly".

JWhex, I get what you're saying I really do, but in these here United States wargamers have always skewed to late teens through beardy old guys. If you get hold of WD before issue 300 you will see many pictures of older gamers playing. This has not changed that much. All of the 16 members of my 40k club are over 20. Not to mention the open gaming group.

There are probably zero middle schoolers who have even heard of such a thing in my area. As well as the only people who buy this stuff at the local hobby shop are us old guys. I have not seen one person under 20 purchase or pester anyone to "buy it for me mommy, pleeze."

Cater to those with the money.

The real problem is that GW doesn't "get" the US market. We simply don't need their company stores here as the FLGS's have bern doing a bang-on job of carrying and selling their products for 30 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sorginak wrote:

JWhex wrote:
The reason GW does not care about its reputation among adults is because adults are not its current target audience. Their strategy is churning and burning the 11-15 year old boy demographic.

They are kicking out veterans of their "hobby centers" and no one past age 12 should be buying WD magazine at this time.

GW has also decided to distance themselves from tournaments which at one time they supported with prizes and trophies. Anyone else recall the Rogue Trader Outrider program? I think they have given up on tournaments because it appeals to an older age group. I am aware of the throne of skulls but that is just token support and there is zero support for tourneys in NA.

If you are going to continue to enjoy GW games I think you just have to get to grips with the fact that GW is not interested in marketing to and developing their games for people over the age of 16. From the mouths of their own development team at seminars and games day events they have said that they are not terribly concerned about producing high quality and clearly written rules. Of course the proof of that has long been in the pudding. This is not an approach one would take if your target was an adult audience.

Perhaps someday GW will change its approach and market to adults and children. Until then, there is just no reason to try and get GW to pay attention to the fact that their policies are retrogressive and generating a lot of ill will. They dont care, you can just go away, your in the way of reaching out to Timmy twelve year old.

Nailed it.

I used to joke that I would be ashamed and give up the hobby if I ever lost to anyone under the age of 18, now 1/2 of people I see in GWs are 14-18, real competition there has plummeted and is full of newest-codex-children who talk all day but don't show up to take their medicine when it is time to roll the dice; I'm tired of going there and feeling like I'm the one whose out of place & I actually saw a manager ask a dude to leave because he had visible tattoos that are were not "family friendly".

I wonder how many dollars in sales were lost by him doing that. The tattoo'd dude might have been about to drop a grand in there and no telling how much return business he might have brought in. Not to mention he might have introduced his friends to the products as well, bringing in even further sales.

 Ailaros wrote:
What the article is basically saying is that if you package things together in such a way where customers get fewer options they'll have a better experience? So GW should start only selling battleforces and not individual kits?

Apple treats its customers like garbage, and people line up to give them they're money because owning apple products is a conspicuous luxury item that you can use to impress your friends. The Toyota Prius is one of the worst cars in existence, being two to three times as expensive, just for parts that break more easily, yet people will gladly pay it, and go on a waiting list if they can't get one. If you don't offer people a product that makes them feel cool, or allows them to feel superior to other people, then they're going to turn that desire to feel superior against the company.

GW doesn't provide a method for people to stroke their egos, and therefore some people decide to take it out on GW. It's nothing new, really. Any time you have nerds, you have nerd rage.

You are so wrong. GW exactly provide a method for people to stroke their egos with the "broken" rules and OP units. That's the business-model, you can buy a dozen fliers, table your opponent and fell superior. And it works, they get a lot of money.

The "nerd rage" comes from people who value a fair and balanced game, like to have diverse armies. They don't get that value for their money, so they feel screwed up.
The ones who value a superior list get that value for their money so they pay happily.

The OP has right, that people pay the price happily if they get the value they want. But GW is doing that exactly, just for a different audience.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:
But I don't want to play Malifaux, or WH\Hordes, or any of that other crap. They don't hold a candle to 40K, and GW knows it.

Sure you can buy a cheap Malifaux army, but so what? It is not a massive battle in a sci-fi universe with vehicles, super human soldiers
in power armour, hordes of space orks, massive guns, and hordes of daemons.

There is no real competition for 40K, and that is GW's saving grace. I honestly don't see there being real competition within the next 10 years either.

Huge deja vu here. I said almost exactly this to some guy pushing FoW around two years ago. The thing is, though, 40k is a terrible example of a wargaming system to use as a baseline comparison. It's still got its good points, and the thought of leaving it behind entirely pains me, but its rule system (and codex balance) is to something like Malifaux what FATAL is to D&D: a convoluted, haphazard mess that does a grave disservice to the image of the entire genre.

No other game possesses 40k's few strengths, true, but the big competitors also lack its glaring flaws. Malifaux might only involve less than a dozen models on a side (usually), and its fluff is kind of... well, it reminds me a lot of earlier 40k/rogue trader stuff, there's a lot of the same tone, and the unpolished feeling that decades of refinement have driven out of 40k's fluff, but unlike 40k half the armies aren't just one army with different suggested paint schemes, every faction (and almost every Master) manages to be interesting, varied, and balanced, and the rules aren't a ramshackle mess of random WHFB elements and deliberate buffing of the Necron codex. Wyrd also doesn't contribute to Mat "I'm intentionally messing up these editions because trololololololo" Ward's continued employment.

Malifaux isn't a competitor to 40K. It is a small scale skirmish game, and is not in the same league as 40K. Comparing the two is a joke.

I have been playing wargames of all kinds since I was a kid. Including the really deep hex and counter stuff like ASL. I can tell you the 40K ruleset allows for all kinds of tactics and strategy. It may seem simple on the surface, but I definitely find it
engaging when playing other veterans. It provides an excellent cinematic experience of a massive futuristic battle. Skillset and generalship matter a whole lot in the game. The other mini games out there (and I have played a whole bunch of them over the years), are just shadows of 40K. I no longer waste my time with them. All of them eventually die, and than you have no players or support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lathor wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
What the article is basically saying is that if you package things together in such a way where customers get fewer options they'll have a better experience? So GW should start only selling battleforces and not individual kits?

Apple treats its customers like garbage, and people line up to give them they're money because owning apple products is a conspicuous luxury item that you can use to impress your friends. The Toyota Prius is one of the worst cars in existence, being two to three times as expensive, just for parts that break more easily, yet people will gladly pay it, and go on a waiting list if they can't get one. If you don't offer people a product that makes them feel cool, or allows them to feel superior to other people, then they're going to turn that desire to feel superior against the company.

GW doesn't provide a method for people to stroke their egos, and therefore some people decide to take it out on GW. It's nothing new, really. Any time you have nerds, you have nerd rage.

You are so wrong. GW exactly provide a method for people to stroke their egos with the "broken" rules and OP units. That's the business-model, you can buy a dozen fliers, table your opponent and fell superior. And it works, they get a lot of money.

The "nerd rage" comes from people who value a fair and balanced game, like to have diverse armies. They don't get that value for their money, so they feel screwed up.
The ones who value a superior list get that value for their money so they pay happily.

The OP has right, that people pay the price happily if they get the value they want. But GW is doing that exactly, just for a different audience.

Than how come the all flyers lists aren't dominating the tournament scene?

40K can be plenty balanced with a lot of matchups and discussing what kind of game you want to have with your opponent before the game.

Your post sounds like sour grapes. You probably faced a Necron or IG Airforce list at an event and weren't prepared.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWhex wrote:
The reason GW does not care about its reputation among adults is because adults are not its current target audience. Their strategy is churning and burning the 11-15 year old boy demographic.

They are kicking out veterans of their "hobby centers" and no one past age 12 should be buying WD magazine at this time.

GW has also decided to distance themselves from tournaments which at one time they supported with prizes and trophies. Anyone else recall the Rogue Trader Outrider program? I think they have given up on tournaments because it appeals to an older age group. I am aware of the throne of skulls but that is just token support and there is zero support for tourneys in NA.

If you are going to continue to enjoy GW games I think you just have to get to grips with the fact that GW is not interested in marketing to and developing their games for people over the age of 16. From the mouths of their own development team at seminars and games day events they have said that they are not terribly concerned about producing high quality and clearly written rules. Of course the proof of that has long been in the pudding. This is not an approach one would take if your target was an adult audience.

Perhaps someday GW will change its approach and market to adults and children. Until then, there is just no reason to try and get GW to pay attention to the fact that their policies are retrogressive and generating a lot of ill will. They dont care, you can just go away, your in the way of reaching out to Timmy twelve year old.

Anybody that thinks GW doesn't care about selling and marketing to adults is being naive'. I can tell you right now that GW understands that the adult gaming community is a profitable part of it's business and isn't going to turn it's game into kidhammer. Kids are an important part of the GW business no doubt about it. Kinda like how all of the game stores in the u.s. are flooded by MTG, Pokemon, and Yugiho players. It keeps the lights on at the store. Same thing with GW. Kids buying their games keep them profitable. If I was a GW executive, I would be marketing to both audiences. And if I ran a store, I wouldn't tolerate nasty customers with vulgar tattoos either. There are several gamers at the local FLGS here in town that I wish would get booted. One in particular is really creepy and not right in the head.

NoArmorSave wrote:
Malifaux isn't a competitor to 40K. It is a small scale skirmish game, and is not in the same league as 40K. Comparing the two is a joke.

Wyrd is the fifth highest selling miniature company (or was it Malifaux is the fifth highest selling wargame?)in the US, and every time I see wargaming discussed it's almost exclusively 40k, Warmahordes, and Malifaux, with FoW occasionally popping up. So yeah, it looks like the main competition to 40k is Warmahordes and Malifaux.

I have been playing wargames of all kinds since I was a kid. Including the really deep hex and counter stuff like ASL. I can tell you the 40K ruleset allows for all kinds of tactics and strategy. It may seem simple on the surface, but I definitely find it engaging when playing other veterans. It provides an excellent cinematic experience of a massive futuristic battle. Skillset and generalship matter a whole lot in the game. The other mini games out there (and I have played a whole bunch of them over the years), are just shadows of 40K. I no longer waste my time with them. All of them eventually die, and than you have no players or support.

From what I can tell, GW managed to weather a general crash that saw most or all of the other old companies vanish. That has little bearing on the massive boom we're seeing now, where quality games with nicer (if less expansive) model ranges are showing up at a staggering rate, with an ever decreasing barrier to entry for new companies thanks to advancing technology and Kickstarter, yet GW gets ever worse with their behavior, continuing to act like they're the only game in town.

I also didn't say anything about tactics or strategy, only that the current edition is a ramshackle mess, and the codices are in equally bad shape, to say nothing of the insanely lax approach to updating them, and the free reign they give to Mat "break an edition just to buff his pet necrons" Ward.

JWhex wrote:
The reason GW does not care about its reputation among adults is because adults are not its current target audience. Their strategy is churning and burning the 11-15 year old boy demographic.

They are kicking out veterans of their "hobby centers" and no one past age 12 should be buying WD magazine at this time.

GW has also decided to distance themselves from tournaments which at one time they supported with prizes and trophies. Anyone else recall the Rogue Trader Outrider program? I think they have given up on tournaments because it appeals to an older age group. I am aware of the throne of skulls but that is just token support and there is zero support for tourneys in NA.

If you are going to continue to enjoy GW games I think you just have to get to grips with the fact that GW is not interested in marketing to and developing their games for people over the age of 16. From the mouths of their own development team at seminars and games day events they have said that they are not terribly concerned about producing high quality and clearly written rules. Of course the proof of that has long been in the pudding. This is not an approach one would take if your target was an adult audience.

Perhaps someday GW will change its approach and market to adults and children. Until then, there is just no reason to try and get GW to pay attention to the fact that their policies are retrogressive and generating a lot of ill will. They dont care, you can just go away, your in the way of reaching out to Timmy twelve year old.

The silly thing is; Timmy doesn't want little plastic soldiers, he wants the next shiny gadget or video game. So in reality their target demographic is constantly shrinking because other entertainment is still on the rise and taking the kid's interests. GW barely has an internet presence, doesn't advertise and has cheap one-man stores as its street presence. This won't work GW. All this is relying on is the casual window shopper, the kid easily impressed with mum/dad who gives in to demands too easily and word-of-mouth from the small community. This is barely sustainable.

If GW wants more money it must spend some to get the customers. It'll need a change of tone; advertise more, bigger presence, more internet expansion. It must grab the audience and say "Look at all this cool stuff we have!" and when there's a customer base that's interested, you have to hold onto them and keep them satisfied. And this all boils down to their reputation - more customers and a better outgoing image and the cash waterfall will flow.


This is what GW must do to gain sustainable income. Until then, the prices will keep going up, the customer base will shrink and suddenly the profits will collapse. It's cynical, and entirely possible it won't happen, but it's what I would expect.

Orktavius wrote:
I dunno what Ravenous is talking about....GW's sales volume increased last year as did their profits....it's why they paid a bonus to every employee....the company hit it's target of 6% growth.

Try quoting me next time for context.

I said their sales volume over the last 10 years was down, yes they showed growth and profits were up last year, it might have had something to do with 6th, their flagship product. Reality is that their player base IS shriking and has continued to shrink.

And depending on how old you are and what part of Canada you're in its plain as day to see that GW has been receding.

xraytango wrote:
JWhex, I get what you're saying I really do, but in these here United States wargamers have always skewed to late teens through beardy old guys. If you get hold of WD before issue 300 you will see many pictures of older gamers playing. This has not changed that much. All of the 16 members of my 40k club are over 20. Not to mention the open gaming group.

There are probably zero middle schoolers who have even heard of such a thing in my area. As well as the only people who buy this stuff at the local hobby shop are us old guys. I have not seen one person under 20 purchase or pester anyone to "buy it for me mommy, pleeze."

Cater to those with the money.

The real problem is that GW doesn't "get" the US market. We simply don't need their company stores here as the FLGS's have bern doing a bang-on job of carrying and selling their products for 30 years.

I live in the midwest USA and I completely agree with you: the gamers are older in the US, middle schoolers rarely seen, GW doesnt "get" the US and we certainly do not need or want our flgs replaced by the ridiculous GW company stores. I am a bit surprised you have never seen anyone under 20 buy 40k though. Around here it is not unusual for high school age kids to play 40k and every once in great while a high school age kid will even turn up at a whfb tourney.

However, this does not change the fact that the GW management is myopic and completely influenced by their "High Street" stores and in recent years have decided to churn and burn the 11-15 year old market. It is a bit of a tangent but the martial art industry in the USA also has become predominantly a churn and burn of the same age group, much to the demise of traditional martial arts instruction.

Orktavius wrote:
I dunno what Ravenous is talking about....GW's sales volume increased last year as did their profits....it's why they paid a bonus to every employee....the company hit it's target of 6% growth.

They grew their profits by 6%, following a ~10% price increase and the release of a new edition that emphasized their newest and most disproportionately expensive pieces yet, in addition to generally shifting the paradigm of the game and forcing existing players to change up their armies a bit? I wonder how much the wargames industry grew last year; I have a hard time believing it was only 6%, what with Wyrd's expansion into plastics and the myriad of successful kickstarters. GW is becoming an ever smaller part of the industry it once, for all intents and purposes, was. It's like how the music industry industry has exploded in the past decade, while the old major players have stagnated and become ever more irrelevant to modern culture.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They grew their profits by 6%, following a ~10% price increase and the release of a new edition that emphasized their newest and most disproportionately expensive pieces yet, in addition to generally shifting the paradigm of the game and forcing existing players to change up their armies a bit? I wonder how much the wargames industry grew last year; I have a hard time believing it was only 6%, what with Wyrd's expansion into plastics and the myriad of successful kickstarters. GW is becoming an ever smaller part of the industry it once, for all intents and purposes, was. It's like how the music industry industry has exploded in the past decade, while the old major players have stagnated and become ever more irrelevant to modern culture.

Actually 6% sounds kind of bad when you factor in the release of flyers, the release of 6th edition, updating an army with a large fanbase, and bringing allies and terrain into the game. Any one of those items should have had significant improvement on it's own, especially with Allies now encouraging players to purchase an additional 25% of another army.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Actually 6% sounds kind of bad when you factor in the release of flyers, the release of 6th edition, updating an army with a large fanbase, and bringing allies and terrain into the game. Any one of those items should have had significant improvement on it's own, especially with Allies now encouraging players to purchase an additional 25% of another army.

I know, right? At a time when their sales should have seen a hefty boost, they've instead decreased (or at best stagnated), with a profit being turned because of a price increase and a rules emphasis on the most expensive models.

The situation is eerily reminiscent of the current state of the recording industry: the old labels are still slowly growing their profits but they're stagnating in an industry that's exploding. GW's still making money, but it's stagnating in an industry that's experiencing massive growth.



Edit: Just found this up in News and Rumors. From the thread:

 Le Grognard wrote:

"Their move today makes it 'against the rules' to sell their product to anyone under 14, sell bits or prepainted product and even advertise a particular product is in our stores online, and quite possibly made it against the rules to post pictures of people playing with their products in our stores."

So that basically kills people that sell bits. Jesus Christ they really are at war with its customers.

It bars anyone with a trade account from doing the things listed, apparently, though of course the specific terms are all under a non-disclosure agreement, just for the sake of making that strong arming even sleazier. People who don't have trade accounts are free to do whatever they want, first-sale-doctrine and whatnot.

For all I love the 40k setting, and enjoyed the game back in 5th ed, there's no way I can morally condone financially supporting GW. Let them wither and collapse, maybe someone good will buy the warhammer settings then. Until that day: support their competitors, support the kickstarters, and discourage support of GW.

How soon till we see GW selling only one item to our FLGSs?
A sign reading "Visit Gamesworkshop.com to purchase our amazing one-click collections."

 Ravenous D wrote:
So that basically kills people that sell bits. Jesus Christ they really are at war with its customers.

It is all about control. Control of the manner they receive their revenue. I have been saying this for close to 2 years about the corporations streamlining their revenue and of course it still continues. People are leaving the hobby all together because if this aggressive price policy and predatory practice against their distribution lines/LFGS and finally the customer base.

In an age of smart phones and video games and apps, modeling is back in the stone age for socialization. The corporation SHOULD try to keep their customer base and promote growth in their stores and in the LFGS as modelling is a physical aspect if socialization (meaning you have to talk to people than looking at a screen and talking to a monitor/phone). The only way to do this now is to increase their PR and rethink their current business model and we all know that is not going to happen. Their business model is flawed to think that in this day and age that their main age target for selling product is 12 or older. The global economics are not there to support this business model and the result of their refusal to adapt is price increases, prices increases, and the tightening of control on who and how the product is to be sold.

We have already covered hundreds of pages of what this corporation is doing to this hobby. They can not hide from their past mistakes. They can not hide from people who use the modern technology and gather the data from whatever sources that are out there. The corporation has to now choose their targets that they deemed "easy to bully". 7 years ago they were the 800 pound gorilla that threw out C&D letters with impunity. This not the case now as proven with the "space marine fiasco" and the Electronic Frontier Foundation coming to defense as well as the current CH lawsuit, and finally the increase of competition within their market share.

This did not need to happen and there is still time for GW to right themselves. But until Kirby is completely gone from any dealings with Games Workshop it will be the same business model as usual and the same results will continue.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
This did not need to happen and there is still time for GW to right themselves. But until Kirby is completely gone from any dealings with Games Workshop it will be the same business model as usual and the same results will continue.

is it really down to one man that can alter a company's business plan for so many years? Surely it would be the general group of management people that caused this mess.

@Juvieus Kiane.
Usually a corperate board of directors is made up of executive directors headed by a Chief Executive Officer.
This group headed by the C.E.O sets the direction of the company based on fiscal , sales and marketing information -projections.

These plans are ratified and approved by a Chairman of the board.Who makes sure none of the policies are self serving , or at detriment to the long term future of the buisness.

However, as GW has not got a marketing director,(or marketing department,) A Mr T .Kirby currently holds sway as C.E.O .
And has to get approval from Mr T.Kirby the Chairman of the board of directors.

Apparently it was illegal for the same person to hold the position of C.E.O AND Chairman.So a few years ago they had to employ a new C.E.O .(Mr Wells.)

But after his contract came to an end, good old Tom Kirby has taken over the role,(and pay,) of the C.E.O position, temporarily..until he retires perhaps?

Tom Kirby holds the 2 top positions in GW .No one can or would dare challenge him.At GW towers the ONLY way to get on is' his way or the highway.'

The fact he is focusing on short term profit to deliver as high share dividends as possible could be down to him holding so many shares. and being within spitting distance of retirement?

If we jump in a time machine and go back to 1987-1997.
The studio were in contact with the player base through WD magazine.Enthusiasm for the narrative and the cool factor was at the fore.
Yes the rules were not the best , but it did not seem to matter, as they were written more in the style of..
'We had this cool idea, here is what we did, see if you like it too!'
We viewed the studio staff like older brothers-uncles who were having loads of fun and were happy to let us join in.(Free stuff on occasion,cardboard building, minature, rules, to keep up good will!)
The informal 'we are all in this hobby together' approach saw them double turn over every 3 years.(When the studio staff were in charge of releases and game development.)

Rather than the current 'Here is the official rules for our official games to use our official minatures in.These are officialy approved for offical use in our official stores and any sactioned tournament events with official approval.THESE ARE PERFECT BECAUSE WE DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY ERRORS.
(As we charge stupidly high prices we are not allowed to make official mistakes.)
Until GW release the official FAQS telling the players how THEY got it all wrong.

Tom Kirby , turning my favorite game system into his retirement fund since 1998. .

Its also worth noting that Kirby owns 51% of the shares in the company, pretty much giving him an absurd amount of control.

Ta for that Lanrak, a nice little insight. So in reality it is one man to screw them all. How pleasant.

So how old is this fella and is he likely to do an Ecclestone? (In english: not retire until he's in a wheelchair eating soup for his meals)

Mr T.Kirby is 63 I believe.(Please correct me if this is wrong.)

He will plan to retire JUST before GW plc reaches the tipping point.
Where the influx of new customers, fails to sustain enough interest in the games to justify the ever increasing prices.Resulting in a sales slump that will result in a drastic drop in turn over.

But while GW s '....loyal fan base are prepared to pay what ever GW want to charge..'
He gets a £400k+ topped up with £500+ share dividend pay out every year.
So I can not see him being too keen to retire until the last possible moment...

If you want to see how GW used to be run, have a look at Mantic Games...
(Lots of ex GW staff doing what they do best ,IMO.)

Not to mention he'll give himself a monster severence package.

Lanrak wrote:
Mr T.Kirby is 63 I believe.(Please correct me if this is wrong.)

He will plan to retire JUST before GW plc reaches the tipping point.
Where the influx of new customers, fails to sustain enough interest in the games to justify the ever increasing prices.Resulting in a sales slump that will result in a drastic drop in turn over.

But while GW s '....loyal fan base are prepared to pay what ever GW want to charge..'
He gets a £400k+ topped up with £500+ share dividend pay out every year.
So I can not see him being too keen to retire until the last possible moment...

If you want to see how GW used to be run, have a look at Mantic Games...
(Lots of ex GW staff doing what they do best ,IMO.)

Woa! I just checked that out and... I'll be placing my order after I finish typing this. I think I'm gonna phase out my Steel Legion with their corporation platoon and checkout their game. It almost looks like they are trying to make it easy for certain armies to switch more easily. Thanks for the info, I am much happier giving companies like that my money. Loyal fan base nothing in America, we love rooting for the underdog and I seem to remember a certain incident with some tea that ended up in the water because we collectively agreed that where the money goes is equally as important as what we get for it, so... deep breath... let me get this started:




Okay so throwing them on the ground didn't work out as well as I hoped and taking a hammer to them felt stupid and calmed me down (figures the one time I actually want my models to shatter). But you get the idea, I'm done buying from GW until I find out more about this Kirby guy and if the people who are responsible for the game I used to love are working elsewhere I'll take my business there.


After looking more at what they offer I decided to order Dreadball, looks like a much easier way to ease some of my friends into the idea and it looks cool.