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 Grimstonefire wrote:
GW could have contacted ebay years ago and instructed them not to allow anyone to sell any bits. Period.

I imagine they didn't is because ebay would laugh in their faces...

All bitz people have to do is legally seperate their businesses and supply from one to the other for breaking up. Job done. I can't imagine the bitz provider is legally obliged to give GW any details of their trading address, owner or supplier unless they are sued.

Funny you should mention that, they did apparently but eBay told them to go #%^& themselves.

I do not see how this is enforceable. Sure, they could shut down Spikeybits but what about the hundreds of other small stores that are ran out basements that don't source from GW direct? They can't even enforce their embargo on eBay and shipping to Australia. There are lots of store that ship GW anywhere in the world on eBay. Try as they might to restrict bits sales of whatever, whenever there is a demand for something markets will always find a way to supply it.

If only they pursued Forgeworld recasters with the same vim and vigor that they focus on indy retailers that carry their products...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
You want to be a bit careful, the Chapterhouse case showed that GW has many little servants and sycophants hiding in forums - little grovelling helpers who are all too eager to please their masters by submitting information about people who are breaking GW's rules

Despite GW ordering them not to come onto forums, many will be store employees, fully topped up with righteous zeal, programming from the little red book and love for the company, well, until they get fired in the next wave of 'commissar summary executions' or 'exterminatus' or whatever creepy fictional crossover term they are applying to their repulsive corporate practices this week...

I liked how they constantly referred to the people doing maintenance and work on the site as servitors. Aren't servitors essentially lobotomized robot zombies? Doesn't seem like the most respectable thing to refer to the people working for you.

Then again I bet it's several magnitudes better than the names they have for the people who actually buy gak from them.

What the feth GW?!??!?!?!?!

Y'know this is hurting them, Alot less conversions for people to see.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know this is hurting them, Alot less conversions for people to see.

But it's helping me , ok I couldn't resist on that one sorry.

*Endters room and takes a chair*

"Hello, my name is Christopher, and I have been buying GW products for more than 15 years, but apparently the company I used to be loyal to hates me more every year."

If only we had enough money to buy all of GW stocks.
Maybe Kickstarter it.

After reading that posted policy, describing how this is all meant to protect their IP, their brand, and to make sure customers know they're buying a genuine GW product, I can definitely see that this is a result of GW's failures with the CHS lawsuit.
The sad part is, this is exactly the opposite of what GW should have done. As already mentioned, this is just one more instance of GW refusing to adapt to changes in the market.

thundering wrote:
Now just to clarify;

Can a store buy used armies from a customer, then resell them, since that doesn't constitute removing components from original packaging?

Even though it does constitute reselling items to consumers without original packages.

They can't touch second hand sales. they don't have a leg to stand on becuase you aren't buying it from them.

Who they are going after are the people who buy the product from them, open it then sell it as *like new with no box* at huge discounts.

This got around 2 of GW's other rules. 1: Don't sell brand new sealed product on eBay at a huge discount. 2: Don't ship outside your area of distribution just because you can undercut other's prices.

I fully realise that GW's prices put them above the average person's budget and that many consider them a *luxury hobby*

As a kid, I never found the game *cost prohibitive* to play and I had very little money.
I now make a very very healthy professional salary and have to question weather or not I want to pay $80 for the same land raider that was $50 2 years ago and I paid far less for when the model came out in 96'

When someone like me who has a huge disposable income has to start questioning buying their products THEY have issues.

trying to detroy the bitz market is dumb. trying to control crossborder sales I completely understand.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
You want to be a bit careful, the Chapterhouse case showed that GW has many little servants and sycophants hiding in forums - little grovelling helpers who are all too eager to please their masters by submitting information about people who are breaking GW's rules

Despite GW ordering them not to come onto forums, many will be store employees, fully topped up with righteous zeal, programming from the little red book and love for the company, well, until they get fired in the next wave of 'commissar summary executions' or 'exterminatus' or whatever creepy fictional crossover term they are applying to their repulsive corporate practices this week...

I liked how they constantly referred to the people doing maintenance and work on the site as servitors. Aren't servitors essentially lobotomized robot zombies? Doesn't seem like the most respectable thing to refer to the people working for you.

Then again I bet it's several magnitudes better than the names they have for the people who actually buy gak from them.

True enough, though Privateer calls their studio painters "Brush Thralls" and the members of the community who organize events and introduce new players to the game as "Pressgangers." The names are mildly cutesy and not too bothersome to me. GW does plenty to be offended by, this isn't really one of them.

Really still wish GW had a similar outreach program for their customers. They could do it how Privateer does, with only one "Chaplain" per geographical area, who needs to own at least two armies of 500pts or more, fully painted and the attendant paperwork for them. You have to be associated with a brick and mortar store within your assigned radius, and are in charge of running regular events (tournies, campaigns, league nights or the like.) You also have to buy the new versions of the rules as they come out to stay "certified." In exchange, the "Chaplains" get discounts on ordering the new codecies and books direct from GW, have access to Preorders before other people, and get discounts on items purchased direct from GW, especially those items that are new for the armies they have told GW are the "trainer" armies they own or any starter sets, terrain, Realm of Battle boards, tokens, and so on.

Obviously they can't give them any real info or playtest rules, since that is not the way GW does its business (as opposed to PP giving out copies of its new edition rules to pressgangers for playtest) but there's still plenty that can be done that wouldn't cost GW a dime. Oh well.

Nags they used to have that, they were called Outriders and they were paid in product to run events.

I find it a bit ironic that every time GW tries to protect their image they make themselves look worse.

What I don't understand is their bizarre train of thought on the issue. They don't want people removing the box because it then people won't know what it is or where it came from? When in court they tried to show how iconic their models were?!

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I find it a bit ironic that every time GW tries to protect their image they make themselves look worse.

What I don't understand is their bizarre train of thought on the issue. They don't want people removing the box because it then people won't know what it is or where it came from? When in court they tried to show how iconic their models were?!

But the court decided against that motion, for the most part. If I recall correctly, the court recognized the iconic nature of GW's Space Marine design, namely the large, curved shoulder pads, but threw out the rest, saying that generic sci-fi guns, armour, torsos and the like in 28mm scale doesn't count as copyright infringmenet.

Basically, GW was told, no, you don't own everything sci-fi in 28mm, and that probably coloured this decision. of course, it is entirely the wrong decision. GW has the resources and skill to completely out-compete all the third-party bits producers. They can produce higher quality bits, in plastic or resin, in high quantity and, theoretically, charge less for them and still make a profit, and most gamers would love to buy actual GW plasma guns, melta guns, armour modifications and tank upgrades from GW, but GW doesn't want to offer that service. They want people to buy entire kits or "upgrade sprues," with lots of useless gear and charge an absolute premium for them.

I mean, I'd love to buy some track guards for all my Leman Russ tanks, but am I going to buy the $15 upgrade sprue with an extra lower hull, upper turret, battle cannon, hunter killer, heavy stubber, tank commander, and so on for that particular bit? Not bloody likely. However, if GW offered just that bit for, say $5. GW seems to be willing to admit there is some bit demand, with the finecast plasma/melta gun sets you can buy, 5 for $12, which is slightly cheaper than most bits sellers offer, but they don't seem willing to fully embrace the fact that their customers like to personalize their armies.

In the UK once you buy something it's yours,you can do what you like with it.I assume as long as you are not selling the model as if you made it then there is no problem.Also when selling bits etc they are just gonna have GTF.

Slightly cheaper? meltaguns cost 5-6$ a piece from bit sellers.
2$ from GW.

 shingouki wrote:
In the UK once you buy something it's yours,you can do what you like with it.I assume as long as you are not selling the model as if you made it then there is no problem.Also when selling bits etc they are just gonna have GTF.

That's missing the point. If a retailer does something that GW doesn't like, and GW finds out about it, the next time that retailer goes to order GW stock, they get told, "No wholesale price for you. We'll sell you that merchandise for retail, or go elsewhere."

In other words, "Do it are way or you won't make any profit selling this."

Davor wrote:Why are people complaining about GW prices? If you have to complain about GW prices (which I do as well, guilty as charged) then you are not part of GW demographic for sales.
Why are we not complaining about the prices of Ferraris and other high priced cars? Because most of us don't make the money to get them, so we don't complain about it.

GW pretends, its target customer is 14-15 year old millionaires. There must be a flaw in that marketing strategy.
Ferrari's customer base is adult millionaires, much more realistic.

Davor wrote:GW is not for the common gamer. It's a luxury item just like Ferraris and other high performance cars or any other luxury expensive items. They are not made for us. Just like GW is not made for us either.

Pretending that toy soldiers are luxury items and a niche product is just a sorry excuse why it is okay for GW marketing to lose customers every year.

1000_Sons wrote:

 Grimstonefire wrote:
GW could have contacted ebay years ago and instructed them not to allow anyone to sell any bits. Period.

Funny you should mention that, they did apparently but eBay told them to go #%^& themselves.

"Our products sell less and less each year. Suggestions?"
"Lower prices so our customers can afford them."
"You're fired. Next?"
"Claim, second market is illegal."
"We tried, but the Chapterhouse case is not going well."
"Claim that second hand market is illegal."
"Nice. Send out new terms of trade."

BTW can't access the google document. Can someone post the part about "selling to children below 14 years is illegal"?
Edit: Found it.
BTW it's for North America only.

 Nagashek wrote:

True enough, though Privateer calls their studio painters "Brush Thralls" and the members of the community who organize events and introduce new players to the game as "Pressgangers." The names are mildly cutesy and not too bothersome to me. GW does plenty to be offended by, this isn't really one of them.

when i painted for PP (before the Mcveys left) we were called Rivetheads, actually...


Pacific wrote: @Balisong - 4-5 years ago (or was it more?) GW had an awesome bits service. You could literally buy any single component from any one of their miniatures, so of course anything that is around these days is going to pale in significance compared to that - even overpriced packs of FW bolters and the like.

the only thing wrong with your logic here is that GW has never broken down plastic kits...
they have always sold a sprue at minimum, which is a hard choice to make for one part...
the only single bits one could order were all metal, and cast as single bits anyway...
guess which choice they made???

the reasoning they gave when they stopped bits orders was that it cost too much to have the trolls running around packing parts all day...
they certainly had tons of bits orders, back in the day, and a lot of staff that had to be paid to pack them...
this new streamlining may suck, but it is understandable from a business perspective...
the problem is, to save a little cash they piss of the majority of their loyal veteran customers...

now they have bits packs, and whole sprues...
with all the metal going to finecast, and being on a sprue, there goes that change for a return to loose metal bits...
sad days, when a company that used to feel like a friend goes corporate, and drops the customer relationships for shareholder's profits...
that's the way it is though...
the abusive relationship analogy gets more apt every year with GW...
makes me happy to be a painter, and not a gamer...
i can pick and choose, and don't have the same kind of emotional investment as the guys with 1000's of points worth of armies...
bummer for you guys:(...

cheers
jah

Thanks for the corrections re: PP's painters' titles.

The more you tighten your grip lord vader, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

Idiots......

Sorry if I missed it, just skimmed but is there a source on this yet?

I haven't read all 6 pages of the replies, so I apologize if someone already posted this.

You can see all the new trade documents here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wn5gq2srlbvxs6l/mhXkq4nVgZ

These are the documents GW sent to me as a retailer, uploaded to my Dropbox, so they are legit.

Es ist Zeit für Reich....tum!

GW truly lives up to its terrible reputation.

Maybe i missed it but i saw no statements trying to constrict distributors.

 Empchild wrote:
Maybe i missed it but i saw no statements trying to constrict distributors.

Since when have silly things like "facts" gotten in the way of knee-jerk reactions, Emp?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Empchild wrote:
Maybe i missed it but i saw no statements trying to constrict distributors.

Since when have silly things like "facts" gotten in the way of knee-jerk reactions, Emp?

I know but that being said all of this is for nothing then which makes it funnier.

 Empchild wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Empchild wrote:
Maybe i missed it but i saw no statements trying to constrict distributors.

Since when have silly things like "facts" gotten in the way of knee-jerk reactions, Emp?

I know but that being said all of this is for nothing then which makes it funnier.

Distributors would likely get their own letters...as the terms that they have different terms and obligations...that said, if you read the terminology carefully, then you will notice that they specify all retailers, and then retailers who have a trade account with GW. The only way that those new terms would get to the retailers who do not have a trade account would be to go through the various distributors. It is therefore reasonable to assume that new terms will also be going out to those distributors to set the new terms in place with retailers who work with the distributors.

9 times out of 10 GW is the distributor because you get less of a discount through an indirect source. Lion Rampart used to do that for retailers that hated working with GW. Sure you could go through them, but then you make a webstore with bits, GW finds out how you get them and the distributor gets cut off.

 Ravenous D wrote:
9 times out of 10 GW is the distributor because you get less of a discount through an indirect source. Lion Rampart used to do that for retailers that hated working with GW.

A lot actually used distributors. You could skirt stock levels and other issues...

Reading the document again though, page 3 is the kicker. If you use a distributor and do not meet therms, GW can cancel the account for the distributor...so, thermyou go. Even people who use distributors are covered.