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So lets say BitzBarn is buying his kits from "X-Brand" store. If X-Brand store is selling BitzBarn full kits at whatever price it is that he sells them at, how can Games Workshop terminate a contract based off what the buyer is doing with them? GW minis aren't regulated substances like drugs where you have to "cut off the supplier". X-Brand could probably care less what happens to the minis he's selling, and he isn't culpable for what the buyer does with them afterward.

Forget any legal whatevers, this would be bad business.

As has been said before, GW can cut off supply to anyone at any time for any reason that isn't protected by law.

I still sell out of country in fact 65% of my business is international. Honestly a bunch of us have said we won't stop selling so i think some of you are just worrying over nothing.

 pretre wrote:
As has been said before, GW can cut off supply to anyone at any time for any reason that isn't protected by law.

I guess what I'm getting at is trying to wrap my head around how stupid this all is. They're selling plastic toy crap (I love them folks, but lets face it, this is what they sell). They're behaving like there's a black market conspiracy and GW minis are a controllable substance. And the reason it sets me off is because this and some other things are pointing to the loss of rights for the buyer in this country that I see starting to creep in. Apple is almost as bad, and I don't hear about them going after Best Buy because Best Buy is selling phones to a company that unlocks them and sells them.

 Empchild wrote:
I still sell out of country in fact 65% of my business is international. Honestly a bunch of us have said we won't stop selling so i think some of you are just worrying over nothing.

Exactly.

Am I reading it right in assuming their new rules for selling bits also prohibits GW itself from selling bits?

 juraigamer wrote:
Am I reading it right in assuming their new rules for selling bits also prohibits GW itself from selling bits?

GW doesn't follow the trade sales agreements, so no...

Just to add more to the discussion.

I do know a lot of USA web stores could no longer offer GW products directly on their webbsites for a while now, so what most did was simply having you call or write them telling you what you wanted and business would proceed as normal.

According to the new trade terms no online business can be conducted by retailers. Not even the "get a quote from us by email" method.

From their document:

1. Online Sales Reserved To Games Workshop:
For the reasons set forth below, GAMES WORKSHOP believes that its best interests are served by reserving online retail sales of its products in North America to GAMES WORKSHOP’S own corporate website. GAMES WORKSHOP does not permit the online retail sale of its products by Retailers located in the United States or Canada. By way of illustration, but not limitation, North American Retailers are not permitted to sell GAMES WORKSHOP products on any website, web-portal, third-party web-portal or other Internet-based platform of any kind. This prohibition includes any form of online shopping cart that would enable a Consumer to order or purchase GAMES WORKSHOP products on-line.

I may be reading too much into it and I do hope there's a way I can continue shopping from the US but things look pretty grim to me right now.

 Gereth wrote:
I may be reading too much into it and I do hope there's a way I can continue shopping from the US but things look pretty grim to me right now.

Nothing in there prohibits you emailing in an order from a catalog that you download from them/get emailed to you.

All that needs to happen now is for Mantic to get a foothold in the US and I think what GW has done may of helped them! Yeah I know the miniatures are not to everyones taste but they are constantly improving and the rulesets for KoW and Dreadball (not played warpath yet) imo are really really good and also has the added benefit of being able to use for both systems (KoW for WHFB and Warpath for 40k and vice versa).

 Gereth wrote:
Just to add more to the discussion.

I do know a lot of USA web stores could no longer offer GW products directly on their webbsites for a while now, so what most did was simply having you call or write them telling you what you wanted and business would proceed as normal.

According to the new trade terms no online business can be conducted by retailers. Not even the "get a quote from us by email" method.

From their document:

1. Online Sales Reserved To Games Workshop:
For the reasons set forth below, GAMES WORKSHOP believes that its best interests are served by reserving online retail sales of its products in North America to GAMES WORKSHOP’S own corporate website. GAMES WORKSHOP does not permit the online retail sale of its products by Retailers located in the United States or Canada. By way of illustration, but not limitation, North American Retailers are not permitted to sell GAMES WORKSHOP products on any website, web-portal, third-party web-portal or other Internet-based platform of any kind. This prohibition includes any form of online shopping cart that would enable a Consumer to order or purchase GAMES WORKSHOP products on-line.

I may be reading too much into it and I do hope there's a way I can continue shopping from the US but things look pretty grim to me right now.

One could argue that the phrasing doesn't disallow sales by stores to people outside of North America.

Yep Rigeld.

Again, what gets me is this:

C. POLICY REGARDING DOMESTIC SALES ONLY
North American Retailers are only authorized to resell GAMES WORKSHOP products domestically in their respective countries of origin. Accordingly, United States Retailers are prohibited from exporting GAMES WORKSHOP products for purposes resale to Consumers located outside of the United States. Similarly, Canadian Retailers are prohibited from exporting GAMES WORKSHOP products for purposes resale to Consumers located outside of Canada. Foreign sales of GAMES WORKSHOP products by Retailers can be disruptive to GAMES WORKSHOP’S vertical distribution networks in other countries.

That pretty much spells the end of the 40K hobby for me.

overtyrant wrote:
All that needs to happen now is for Mantic to get a foothold in the US and I think what GW has done may of helped them! Yeah I know the miniatures are not to everyones taste but they are constantly improving and the rulesets for KoW and Dreadball (not played warpath yet) imo are really really good and also has the added benefit of being able to use for both systems (KoW for WHFB and Warpath for 40k and vice versa).

The other thing Mantic's would need is miniatures that someone wanted to buy. As terrible as GW's customer service and pricing are, I still don't imagine Mantic's is cutting into their consumer base.

 Gereth wrote:
Yep Rigeld.

Again, what gets me is this:

C. POLICY REGARDING DOMESTIC SALES ONLY
North American Retailers are only authorized to resell GAMES WORKSHOP products domestically in their respective countries of origin. Accordingly, United States Retailers are prohibited from exporting GAMES WORKSHOP products for purposes resale to Consumers located outside of the United States. Similarly, Canadian Retailers are prohibited from exporting GAMES WORKSHOP products for purposes resale to Consumers located outside of Canada. Foreign sales of GAMES WORKSHOP products by Retailers can be disruptive to GAMES WORKSHOP’S vertical distribution networks in other countries.

That pretty much spells the end of the 40K hobby for me.

No your fine honestly you can still call and email it just means no webcarts but several of us are just not listening.

Thats bs, maybe GW should lose their historical exchange rate system then, the canadian dollar has been on par with the US for nearly 10 years now and for some reason Im still paying 20% more.

Someone could easily make a ton of money being a middle man shipping to Canada from the US, even though there is already plenty of services like that in Niagra falls.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
All that needs to happen now is for Mantic to get a foothold in the US and I think what GW has done may of helped them! Yeah I know the miniatures are not to everyones taste but they are constantly improving and the rulesets for KoW and Dreadball (not played warpath yet) imo are really really good and also has the added benefit of being able to use for both systems (KoW for WHFB and Warpath for 40k and vice versa).

The other thing Mantic's would need is miniatures that someone wanted to buy. As terrible as GW's customer service and pricing are, I still don't imagine Mantic's is cutting into their consumer base.

Well there is plenty of minitures there for people to want and buy. imo Mantics Orcs, undead and elves (controversial I know) and there rulesets are far superior to GW (as well as there price lol). And the stuff that's coming from the KoW KS are fantastic! If you haven't played any of there games you should check out there rules (free pdf last time I checked) and give it a go.I do play WHFB and 40k still but am slowly moving over to Mantica.

When did this become the Mantic shill thread? We already had an attempt at GWvsPP a few pages back, I guess it was inevitable.

All I can really say is wait until June and see what happens.

 Empchild wrote:
I still sell out of country in fact 65% of my business is international. Honestly a bunch of us have said we won't stop selling so i think some of you are just worrying over nothing.

I'm not worried YOU are going to stop selling bits, I'm worried other people (whether it be GW direct or a 3rd party retailer) will stop selling you the kits that you can use to then distribute the bits.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Empchild wrote:
I still sell out of country in fact 65% of my business is international. Honestly a bunch of us have said we won't stop selling so i think some of you are just worrying over nothing.

I'm not worried YOU are going to stop selling bits, I'm worried other people (whether it be GW direct or a 3rd party retailer) will stop selling you the kits that you can use to then distribute the bits.

I have already spoken with my distributors and have back up plans in place for my company. I have no idea about other ones as only a few of us actually talk to each other in civilized fashion. There are a few well known bits vendors who act like children a lot.

 Gereth wrote:
Yep Rigeld.

Again, what gets me is this:

C. POLICY REGARDING DOMESTIC SALES ONLY
North American Retailers are only authorized to resell GAMES WORKSHOP products domestically in their respective countries of origin. Accordingly, United States Retailers are prohibited from exporting GAMES WORKSHOP products for purposes resale to Consumers located outside of the United States. Similarly, Canadian Retailers are prohibited from exporting GAMES WORKSHOP products for purposes resale to Consumers located outside of Canada. Foreign sales of GAMES WORKSHOP products by Retailers can be disruptive to GAMES WORKSHOP’S vertical distribution networks in other countries.

That pretty much spells the end of the 40K hobby for me.

Gareth if your buying as an end user you arent affected, as its limiting sales outside the US for "resale".

Yeah, good call. As long as you're not trying to bypass distribution for retailers you are fine.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

Gareth if your buying as an end user you arent affected, as its limiting sales outside the US for "resale".

Nope, there are two separate statements there. They are stating that American accounts are only to sell domestically (ie: inside the US), and that they can not export to a customer who is reselling.

The second statement isn't the entirety of the rule... it's just making it painfully obvious that exporting is now verboten, whether it's to a customer or to another store.

In the end it will boil down to supply and demand. If there is a demand for bitz, people will find a way to provide them even though the cost may be higher than now. Alternatively the small companies manufacturing accessories for40k will actually benefit from this due to increased demand and less supply of GW bitz.

This is just the latest battle in GW's quixotic war against the internet. If it was not for the fact that it will hurt businesses like the Warstore it would be very amusing.

Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that GW was successful in completely stopping people from breaking up their kits and selling the bitz. Can anyone conceive an end result other than GW selling less product? Can anyone come up with an example of a toy manufacturer that actually wanted to lower its sales?

 insaniak wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

Gareth if your buying as an end user you arent affected, as its limiting sales outside the US for "resale".

Nope, there are two separate statements there. They are stating that American accounts are only to sell domestically (ie: inside the US), and that they can not export to a customer who is reselling.

The second statement isn't the entirety of the rule... it's just making it painfully obvious that exporting is now verboten, whether it's to a customer or to another store.

Thanks mate missed that bit..... farrrrk. and aus gets screwed harder


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something that just occurred to me, how will this affect commission painting companies or individuals? or more precisely those that are supplying them...

There isn't much that GW can do to prevent resale of goods. There was just a Supreme Court case today in the US about a similar matter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-copyright-case-supreme-court-rules-that-goods-made-overseas-can-be-resold-here/2013/03/19/9902d560-90b9-11e2-bdea-e32ad90da239_story.html

Basically someone took international text books and resold them in America and the publisher sued. I think a similar argument could be made in the case here but Games Workshop could still terminate their trade account. GW can refuse to sell to anyone but they can't go after a second part for reselling goods to another market after the original seller sold the item to the reseller of the item.

IT basically boils down to a scare tactic for trade account holders. Still if they resell to a third party (aka a secondary business) and sell the bits then the same exact business model can be preserved - except that another intermediate business would need to be created for the reselling of the bits.

Selling direct to comission painting companies looks to be forbidden, as thye will then re-sell the models

But to get round it all they'll need to do is get the end user to buy the kits to provide to the painting service

(but it will impact on them buying/painting before they have a customer)

Could a company create a second company, owned wholly by the same people as a seperate legal entity, that it then gives the purchased GW product to for "free" and that secondary company then sells the bits.

They could, but it wouldn't avoid the trade terms, GW could still take away their discount

Not if it was a completely different company, which by law are seperate entities.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not if it was a completely different company, which by law are seperate entities.

But if your buying under your trade accound and giving to your other company that then on sells it, your company 1 will lose its trade account.