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Hey, so in case the title didn't send the message right I wanted to ask any IG players, former and/or current, if they ever used Storm Troopers and if so, how effective were they? I have been thinking about getting some of them and the argument I keep having with myself is that they would be expensive to fully equip but at the same time I could just fill them up to the max and stick them into a Chimera.
Thanks in advance for helping me with this and I was a little unsure if this question was alright to put here or in the General/Army List forums. If this question isn't suppose to be here then I apologize, I'm still learning the ropes here.

Storm troopers 101: take minimum-size squads with 2x melta, take the re-roll on deep strike, and drop them next to a vehicle you want dead. Cheap but effective.

Anything else is just a waste of points compared to scoring veteran squads.

I love using Storm Troopers since they can do a few things. I would say the most common use for them is a deep striking one and done melta squad. Just give them Airborne Assault and very few times will a squad not land where you want them to. You can look at it as giving up a decent number of points for what’s usually a suicide run but you should be hitting something that’s most of the time double their points.

I used to use them alot as was described above. They rarely if ever performed as advertised. 2 meltas always seemed to be 1 less than needed to get the job done on a vehicle or thinning out an elite unit.

Lately i've been much happier with their performance on my shelf saving me points to buy another vet or infantry squad.

But I totally agree that suicide melta or plasma is the way they're best deployed if you must.

Airborne melta all the way! I love my two storm trooper squads but I try to drop them behind cover when they land. The reroll gives you the best chance to land really close even though its still risky. But then it does say they get the most dangerous missions right?

 Peregrine wrote:
Storm troopers 101: take minimum-size squads with 2x melta, take the re-roll on deep strike, and drop them next to a vehicle you want dead. Cheap but effective.

Anything else is just a waste of points compared to scoring veteran squads.

I concur! 5 man squads with 2x melta. The IG has a wealth of options when it comes to anti-vehicle units, but these guys are #1 in my opinion, for dislodging even the most entrenched vehicles. You can run 2 of these little squads, and you can rest easy that whatever you need destroyed, will get destroyed.

Airborne is the way to go, you can re-roll scatter.

Behind Enemy Lines is another way to go. It's pretty risky, but if you're certain that your opponent is going to rush you with transports, this can work. Infiltrate them behind LOS cover at mid-field, and this should cause them to change course, maybe funnel them. If they stop to kill your STs, it should afford you the opportunity to fire on them with other weapons. Might be a good reason to bring 2 ST squads. I would NOT recommend this tactic, except in cases where terrain and other conditions favor it. I stopped 3 rhinos once, by killing one, which blocked their advance, then hitting the remaining with the second squad, and other weapons.

You could also go Reconnaissance, if your opponent parks right on the edge. No risk of mishap, just walk in from the edge, and casually melt down their vehicles. Of course, you could end up very far away, an astopath might help here.

I have nothing but love for STs, they are totally worth the cost. Peregrine is right though, in my opinion, they don't need anything more than 2x meltas, just strip them of any other gear.

I am also fond of the 2x plasmaguns and 2x plasma pistol vet.
It's a fair bit of AP2 and AP3.
A precise shot from the plasma pistol can be a really nice bonus.

IMO, also deep strike.
If you aren't deep striking, you should have used vets.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
I am also fond of the 2x plasmaguns and 2x plasma pistol vet.

I've used this once. It was a pretty cool way to execute MCs or single model units. Now I just stick with plasma vets in a Vendetta, 1 more plasma gun and scoring does the trick.

There are two real uses. The first is taking 1-3 squads with 5 dudes and 2x melta and using them as suicide ariborne assault units like people have been saying.

The second is to take 3 squads with 10 dudes apiece with mostly but not exclusively meltaguns. In this case, they basically open up an entire second front anywhere on the board of your choosing with your airborne assault. 30 guardsmen in carapace armor are going to take awhile to dislodge, and resources spent on killing them aren't going to be spent on killing anything else that's running up the field.

+1 for double melta deep striking.

I've also had some success with a bigger squad (8-10) in a Chimera. Chimera gives protection and mobility (12" scout move, bigger action radius especially if outflanking) and with this setup I'm actually thinking about "Reconnaissance" and "Behind Enemy Lines" deployment. Just make sure you have a secondary plan for the Chimera in case you decide to deep-strike!

Downside is that the Chimera+stormtroopers becomes a bit pricy in my otherwise low cost lists....

 Ailaros wrote:
There are two real uses. The first is taking 1-3 squads with 5 dudes and 2x melta and using them as suicide ariborne assault units like people have been saying.

The second is to take 3 squads with 10 dudes apiece with mostly but not exclusively meltaguns. In this case, they basically open up an entire second front anywhere on the board of your choosing with your airborne assault. 30 guardsmen in carapace armor are going to take awhile to dislodge, and resources spent on killing them aren't going to be spent on killing anything else that's running up the field.

That second option is 555 points. That's a lot to be throwing around just to open a second front that only has 6 weapons capable of doing much damage. HSLs are great against SoB and Eldar, but that's about it. Seems like an expensive decoy to me.

It IS expensive, but if you go all the way you can do neat things with it.

Because it's not spending nearly 600 points for a few meltaguns. It's 600 points to be able to comprehensively dislodge your opponent from any one decent-size zone of the board and then be able to HOLD it reasonably well. Your opponent goes from fighting one guard army to fighting two guard armies, and from a position of holding onto zero objectives mid-game.

My best example of how this works is this game here. If you dump 600 points into some static, long-range firepower, then all you're doing is killing stuff, and your opponent knows where and when and what to do about it. It's nothing more than attrition. With the stormtroopers, your opponent has to guess where the rest of the game is going to be played out, and that has some pretty serious strategic chops.

why is it that you stopped using that tactic?

I wanted more alpha strike capability.

The benefit of the stormtroopers not showing up until turn 2 or 3 is that they can strike your opponent's weak spots AFTER they're already committed. The penalty of the stormtroopers showing up mid-game was it was possible for my opponent to practically blow the rest of my army off the table before they arrived, allowing my opponent to simply switch focus.

I still like the strategy, though, and I'll probably recussitate it at some point in the future once I'm done with my current vehicle binge.

I really only use max stormtroopers when I'm doing 100% infantry no tanks allowed IG, which is probably the hardest type of list to run with IG.

In that kind of list, they're essential, because otherwise you will have almost nothing to get into the opponents deployment zone and disrupt his heavy hitters.

In almost any other situation though, x2 melta meltacide squad is the way to go

The only time one should run a 10-man squad instead of just the meltacide squad is if you are going for a warlord kill. True it is a big point drop but depending on the warlord you can really mess up some people strategies. Another fun thing to do is drop a big squad on their back objective to clear off any unit holding it. Works great vs. orks since most people just use gretchin to sit on them.

 Ailaros wrote:
Because it's not spending nearly 600 points for a few meltaguns. It's 600 points to be able to comprehensively dislodge your opponent from any one decent-size zone of the board and then be able to HOLD it reasonably well. Your opponent goes from fighting one guard army to fighting two guard armies, and from a position of holding onto zero objectives mid-game.

Except that's false on both counts.

You aren't dislodging much because storm troopers are going to struggle to kill units of equal value, especially dedicated objective holders (which tend to be as durable as possible). So right away you're limited to taking on small, weak units with your expensive ones.

You aren't holding much because T3/4+ is hardly better than T3/no-save regular guardsmen. Anything with decent volume of fire will hurt, and AP 4 weapons will wipe them out very quickly. And of course assault is almost instantly fatal. If you get charged by a basic 10-man tactical squad you lose 2.2 storm troopers to pistol fire, and kill 1.1 marines with overwatch. The marines kill another 4.5 in combat, while the few surviving storm troopers probably kill nothing. You lose combat, and you're lucky if you avoid getting swept off the table entirely.

So, pretty much you can take out a tactical squad when the unit arrives, and then die to a tactical squad (or just sit there uselessly because your unit isn't scoring). Not a very impressive use of points compared to the other things you could buy.

 Panzer1944 wrote:
The only time one should run a 10-man squad instead of just the meltacide squad is if you are going for a warlord kill. True it is a big point drop but depending on the warlord you can really mess up some people strategies. Another fun thing to do is drop a big squad on their back objective to clear off any unit holding it. Works great vs. orks since most people just use gretchin to sit on them.

Not that many Warlords that 10 Stormtroopers are going to kill much better than 5 stormtroopers.

 Peregrine wrote:
Storm troopers 101: take minimum-size squads with 2x melta, take the re-roll on deep strike, and drop them next to a vehicle you want dead. Cheap but effective.

Anything else is just a waste of points compared to scoring veteran squads.

Good luck with that, any good player that sees that will bubble wrap his important stuff.

OP. In a 2k point game I ran two storm trooper squads, one squad with x2 plasma and the other with x2 melta. I have had great success with them, Granted I run blob so there's plenty of things to shoot.

 kinratha wrote:

Good luck with that, any good player that sees that will bubble wrap his important stuff.

Except that plenty of armies don't have the capability to bubble wrap.

-Terminator armies
-Mech armies
-MEQ armies
-MC spam

Even if they bubblewrap, unless they're a horde army, you'll still have something that you can DS close enough to melta.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Even if they bubblewrap, unless they're a horde army, you'll still have something that you can DS close enough to melta.

Exactly. Accurate deep striking melta is very difficult to stop, especially since IG also have lots of long-range guns that make castling in the corner a bad plan. Melta storm troopers will almost always find a useful target, and even if they don't you're still only spending 105 points on the unit.

Most armies don't have the ability to bubblewrap. Space Marines of any flavor never will.

So Stormtroopers function well as a suicide melta squad. But there's lots of units that can perform that function. And with allies, you often get the luxury of choosing between them. Off hand, I'd like to bring up a couple alternatives from the Space Wolf codex (an exceedingly common ally for Imperial Guard):

Land Speeder Tornado: 2x Multi-meltas on a deepstriking platform for 80 points. It doesn't have scatter reduction, but it's got twice the effective and sweetspot range. In addition, 6th edition now allows them to fire both weapons at cruising speed (including after a deep strike), and grants them a 5+ cover save while they're at it. However, Interceptor fire seriously limits the practical deployment of these units.

Drop-podding Wolf Guard w/ Combi-melta: At 81 points (2 models) or 104 points, this unit uses its inertial stabilization and 6" deployment move to deliver the cargo into sweetspot range. 3+ armor and Ld9 make it more likely to survive a leadership test, and you get the option of bringing additional firepower if you anticipate two meltas to be insufficient. Additionally, you get the option of adding sergeant models to your grey hunter squads.

I'm sure other codices have similar options, but I'd like to hear your opinion on how Stormtroopers stack up. After all, unit evaluation doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Corollax wrote:
So Stormtroopers function well as a suicide melta squad. But there's lots of units that can perform that function. And with allies, you often get the luxury of choosing between them. Off hand, I'd like to bring up a couple alternatives from the Space Wolf codex (an exceedingly common ally for Imperial Guard):

Land Speeder Tornado: 2x Multi-meltas on a deepstriking platform for 80 points. It doesn't have scatter reduction, but it's got twice the effective and sweetspot range. In addition, 6th edition now allows them to fire both weapons at cruising speed (including after a deep strike), and grants them a 5+ cover save while they're at it. However, Interceptor fire seriously limits the practical deployment of these units.

Drop-podding Wolf Guard w/ Combi-melta: At 81 points (2 models) or 104 points, this unit uses its inertial stabilization and 6" deployment move to deliver the cargo into sweetspot range. 3+ armor and Ld9 make it more likely to survive a leadership test, and you get the option of bringing additional firepower if you anticipate two meltas to be insufficient. Additionally, you get the option of adding sergeant models to your grey hunter squads.

I'm sure other codices have similar options, but I'd like to hear your opinion on how Stormtroopers stack up. After all, unit evaluation doesn't happen in a vacuum.

You still need an HQ choice and troop choice, which will boost the cost a bit. That is why storm troopers still have some use, you take them without needing allies (or using allies for other things), don't need to waste points on unnecessary HQ and troop choices, and the slot they are in is the worst slot in the IG army (Ratlings are crap, Ogryn are overpriced, and Marbo is a special character suicide unit).

The problem with that argument is that Space Wolves have some of the best HQ and Troop choices out there. Rune Priests are a fantastic escort for a 40- or 50-man blob squad, and Grey Hunters are some of the best Marines around.

Not to mention Long Fangs. If you're looking for cost-effective Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher spam, you can't find much better.

Melticide stormies are roughly on-par with their other-codex analogues.

There is, something, that I think only sternguard and combi-weapon CSM termies can do. They can show up, unmolested, flamer the crap out of something hiding on an objective, and then contest that objective (and usually score linebreaker in the process).

Showing up with a suicide unit is just that - you're showing up and killing something. It might as well be a one-shot heavy support choice. A unit of stormtroopers with their 4+ armor and their Ap3 weapons, and their relatively pinpoint accuracy, well, they have a real strategic impact. They have actual field presence, and can be used to actually swing points in your favor.

Put another way, fully kitted, stormtroopers do what elites choices are more or less designed to do. They bring you better-than-usual versions of your regular troops that sacrifice scoring (vis. troops), and firepower (vis. heavy support), synergy (vis. HQ), and force concentration (vis. fast attack) in order to have a strategic monkey wrench that you can throw straight into the gears of your opponent in mid-game.

When terminators deepstrike onto one of your lightly-defended objective, you don't think "well, it's a good thing that they don't bring as much firepower for their points as a HS choice in their codex", you think "oh crap! now there's terminators in my deployment zone". The same can be said about full-sized stormtrooper squads.

Except that my reaction to 30 stormtroopers isn't "Oh, crap." It's more along the lines of "Thank god he didn't spend those 550 points on something useful!"

How many times have you had 24 models with Ap3 weapons and 6 dudes with BS4 special weapons drop in on your most vulnerable point?

If you think that that's useless, I'd say you probably haven't faced against it yet.

 Ailaros wrote:
There is, something, that I think only sternguard and combi-weapon CSM termies can do. They can show up, unmolested, flamer the crap out of something hiding on an objective, and then contest that objective (and usually score linebreaker in the process).

Except they really can't. You can only take two (basic) flamers, which isn't very impressive firepower. And, unlike sternguard, you can't move once you arrive so getting into ideal flamer range is very difficult. Meanwhile, if flamering stuff off an objective is your goal, just take a Colossus or Avenger/Vendetta with hellfury missiles.

Put another way, fully kitted, stormtroopers do what elites choices are more or less designed to do. They bring you better-than-usual versions of your regular troops that sacrifice scoring (vis. troops), and firepower (vis. heavy support), synergy (vis. HQ), and force concentration (vis. fast attack) in order to have a strategic monkey wrench that you can throw straight into the gears of your opponent in mid-game.

Which would be a valid point if the extra bodies weren't 16 points per model. You're paying the same price as a tactical marine for a model with weaker firepower (same against MEQs, worse against light infantry) and much less durability. And I really don't know any IG players that saw allies and got really excited because they could finally take bolter marines in their army.

When terminators deepstrike onto one of your lightly-defended objective, you don't think "well, it's a good thing that they don't bring as much firepower for their points as a HS choice in their codex", you think "oh crap! now there's terminators in my deployment zone". The same can be said about full-sized stormtrooper squads.

The difference is that a terminator squad DOES have the firepower of a heavy support unit (though it is dependent on assaulting). It's a brown pants moment because that terminator squad is extremely durable and capable of smashing pretty much anything it wants if you don't kill it immediately. A storm trooper squad, on the other hand, has very limited firepower and much less durability. The response is "hm, guess I'd better think about how I want to deal with that" rather than "OH **** KILL IT NOW!!!!!!".

 Ailaros wrote:
How many times have you had 24 models with Ap3 weapons and 6 dudes with BS4 special weapons drop in on your most vulnerable point?

If you think that that's useless, I'd say you probably haven't faced against it yet.

I'd say that sounds like an excellent target for my Long Fangs. It's not often I get to spend 115 points to kill over 150 in a single turn...and force two leadership tests while I'm at it.