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All being a flyer means if you don't have Skyfire you can only fire Snap Shots at them, blasts and templates can't hurt a Zooming flyer at all, and you can't assault a Zooming flyer either.

It really really isn't bad.


Its only bad if you refuse to update your tactics and playstyle to suit a new edition. I think 90% of the people that complain about 6th are doing exactly that, they stubbornly expect their 5th edition tactics to work in a new edition and refuse to adapt. Then when they don't win they ragequit and blame GW because its easy. When really, its them refusing to change.

All being a flyer means if you don't have Skyfire you can only fire Snap Shots at them, blasts and templates can't hurt a Zooming flyer at all, and you can't assault a Zooming flyer either.

Yeah, I actually think that the 3/4th edition equivalent of those rules were some of the things that were deemed "too powerful" back then, lol.

Its only bad if you refuse to update your tactics and playstyle to suit a new edition. I think 90% of the people that complain about 6th are doing exactly that, they stubbornly expect their 5th edition tactics to work in a new edition and refuse to adapt. Then when they don't win they ragequit and blame GW because its easy. When really, its them refusing to change.

For me it's that three of my 2,000pt armies either turned into vanilla versions (losing all special flavorful rules), or became impossible to play at all. A a 15-year veteran, I prefer to play with an edition that uses the most of what I have spent money on, without forcing me to first spend 100+ dollars adding to any one army to stay with the current meta that will otherwise be forced down my throat.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also, I like how people blame a Corporation for being Coperate

And you blame people for acting like wargamers and customers of an expensive product?

Should we all act like public relations people for a business which does not represent our interests? Because that would really be absurd.

I don't get it OP, you know you took a bad army, and then his bad army beat yours (2 stormravens are you seriously joking?) and this is somehow the fault of the existence of people playing the game competitively?

 TedNugent wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also, I like how people blame a Corporation for being Coperate

And you blame people for acting like wargamers and customers of an expensive product?

Should we all act like public relations people for a business which does not represent our interests? Because that would really be absurd.

I agree. Just because a corporation is, well, acting like a corporation, does NOT give me an obligation to approve of it.

Hell, I don't even necessarily agree with the original post, I just dislike the insinuation here.

There has never been a Golden Age of 40k, every edition has had its good and bad points.

There are quite a few things I dont like about 6th, mostly its small things that just get in the way of the game or stuff adopted from fantasy that I just dont see the point of.

The allies matrix really levels the playing field so in a perverse twist of fate the matrix which really just tramples all over the background setting "balances" a lot of armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Yes -- quite a few of them. Dark Eldar won Templecon. Daemons won Bay Area Open.

You keep bringing up that demons won the Bay Area Open. That doesnt mean jack, that list used the WD update to the PREVIOUS codex which was valid for what, 6 months. It is not relevant to discussions about 6th edition, in case you were not aware, demons have a new codex now.

6E has been rather frustrating for me. I've enjoyed much of what has come along with 6E, the much expanded use and relaxed attitudes towards Forgeworld stuff for example, but the core game is a mess.

Fliers are just one part of it, their rules are not particularly fluid and very obviously feel like a bolt-on to force something that really doesn't have much of a place on tactical platoon level engagement into the game.

The sense of scale is all wonky in general. We have armies that near nigh-battallion strength against armies literally composed of a couple squads, with strategic fire support assets and the like in a game where individuals can challenge each other in single combat and it matters. This game can't decide what it wants to be and sloppily tries to be everything. There's a lot of Random simply for its own sake that does nothing to enhance the game but merely confuse it, and the hammering of the utility and lifespan of armored vehicles makes them often largely pointless where hordes of infantry do battle below airshows.


Now, previous editions have had their own issues, 3E was dominated by Eldar and Rhino rush armies, 4E was the reign of the Skimmer armies and Monstrous Creatures, leaving Orks, IG, Sisters and some MEQ armies woefully incapable. 5E was the reign of armour (though at least, for the first time, tanks were roughly all equally useable instead of always being taken by certain factions and always left at home by others).

6E I feel fails because it doesn't know what it wants to be and instead substitutes trying to be everything (succeeding in some areas adequately and failing in others rather spectacularly) and randomness for its own sake to fill the void in its "soul".

I hope to see this changed one day, but obviously it won't be any time soon and it won't be with this edition.

Well, marines act in smaller number than Imperial Guard. It only makes sense for some armies to feel like they have more dudes(because they do )

How are the flyers not very Fluid? They have a nice simplicity to how they function while their movement is fairly realistic and restrictive to prevent them dominating the entire battlefield.

And you have to stop thinking of 40k games as being only whats going on on the table top. The game you are playing could easily just be part of a much larger battle being waged off board.

There has never been a Golden Age of 40k, every edition has had its good and bad points.

That moniker has nothing, or at least very little, to do with the rules of any edition. The Golden Age of GW was truly the very late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, you has bitz being sold from GW online, the official GW forums (for good or worse), and GW had at least the appearance of very good customer contact and of being very accessible for the average gamer to get into the hobby, back when the internet was new and shiny.

All sorts of variant armies would come out in White Dwarf, and then be later collated into the big Chapter Approved books (or put on the site as free PDF's), White Dwarf was absolutely fun to read for 5 dollars a copy, and just about every other issue had cool things like punch-out terrain and player aids, beta rules for games like Necromunda and BFG, and articles on DIY terrain and conversion possibilities. Whole articles would feature non-studio armies and terrain, like the Tale of Five Gamers.

The GW of the last five years, at least, has absolutely none of that feel for me.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, marines act in smaller number than Imperial Guard. It only makes sense for some armies to feel like they have more dudes(because they do )

To a point this is fine, but when you've got a GK paladin army numbering 12 dudes and a Land Raider against an Ork Green Tide numbering 200 dudes or an IG gunline with a dozen tanks and triple digits of infantry, there's an issue.

How are the flyers not very Fluid? They have a nice simplicity to how they function while their movement is fairly realistic and restrictive to prevent them dominating the entire battlefield.

The flyers basically feel like a bolt-on, movement is hardly realistic, most aircraft featured in the game would spend mere seconds over the battlefield at altitudes far in excess of what most weapons could even target. We've got air superiority fighters mixed in with ground attack gunships and helicopter equivalent transports all sharing the same rules despite being vastly different (an air superiority fighter is going to pass over a 40k battlefield in about one-thirtieth of a second at 30,000 feet and let of a string of missiles at other aircraft, while a ground attack helicopter equivalent shouldn't be particularly capable at dogfighting). As is, they're already dominating the battlefield with armor in many cases equivalent to medium tanks and firepower to match or exceed that, essentially fulfilling the role of MBT but without being subject to the crippling vulnerability ground tanks are now while the equivalents of HIND transport gunships are amongst the greatest air superiority aircraft in the game.

And you have to stop thinking of 40k games as being only whats going on on the table top. The game you are playing could easily just be part of a much larger battle being waged off board.

I get that, but that doesn't mean it still can't be awkward and confused about its scale. 40k has more detailed close combat mechanics than many skirmish games involved small handfuls of models and even some RPG's, especially when you start factoring in Challenges in the middle of a battlefield where starships are firing at the enemy and squadrons of battle tanks are operating. It's always been a bit awkward but 6E has made it notably moreso.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, marines act in smaller number than Imperial Guard. It only makes sense for some armies to feel like they have more dudes(because they do )

To a point this is fine, but when you've got a GK paladin army numbering 12 dudes and a Land Raider against an Ork Green Tide numbering 200 dudes or an IG gunline with a dozen tanks and triple digits of infantry, there's an issue.

Isn't that exactly what happens in the fluff?

A handful of terminator holding back hundreds of enemy troops.

I'm still not sure what issue you think there is with that.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I get that, but that doesn't mean it still can't be awkward and confused about its scale. 40k has more detailed close combat mechanics than many skirmish games involved small handfuls of models and even some RPG's, especially when you start factoring in Challenges in the middle of a battlefield where starships are firing at the enemy and squadrons of battle tanks are operating. It's always been a bit awkward but 6E has made it notably moreso.

But this has always been the crux of 40k. You have a world spanning conflict raging around this little portion of the battle where the Mr McAwesome heroes meet face to face, and fight each other in a bloody hand to hand duel that makes no sense because missiles and laser beams and orbital bombardments that could all easily pulp Mr McAwesome scream overhead and instead hit grunts while the awesome melee duel rages on.

6th edition hasn't changed this. It's just added more to both sides - even more gak going around that could pulp the awesome leaders doing their fighting but really won't, and also added some mechanics to make sure those awesome leaders actually reach melee and hit each other rather than being screened behind some grunts poking other grunts with their shiny stick.

^^; The ground attack craft like Vultures and Vendettas and Avengers being the best anti-air available has always bugged me, too. There should be a special Flyer Type called "Ground Attack Aircraft" that can't switch to skyfire mode.

Edit: Note that I'm saying this as an Elysian player and someone whose reaction to the inclusion of Flyers was "Oh, YES!".

Grey Templar wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, marines act in smaller number than Imperial Guard. It only makes sense for some armies to feel like they have more dudes(because they do )

To a point this is fine, but when you've got a GK paladin army numbering 12 dudes and a Land Raider against an Ork Green Tide numbering 200 dudes or an IG gunline with a dozen tanks and triple digits of infantry, there's an issue.

Isn't that exactly what happens in the fluff?

A handful of terminator holding back hundreds of enemy troops.

I'm still not sure what issue you think there is with that.

A couple things I guess here. Much of the fluff is overblown propaganda and should be taken as such, especially because much of the time it's mindless hordes and not a thinking enemy that just instead decides to sit back and have a couple tanks throw shells at them for a few minutes. Second, you can only go so far in portraying that on a game table before the mechanics start to break down. With entire units benefiting from Character rules and multi-wound models, the game essentially becomes two systems trying to overlap, a skirmish based almost RPG based army against what effectively may be force more suited to an RTS, and it's hamfisted together such that it works, but it's still awkward, and the table can only fit so many models, especially if they want to move and do all those things people call "tactics" and not just be a wall of guns and/or blades.

-Loki- wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I get that, but that doesn't mean it still can't be awkward and confused about its scale. 40k has more detailed close combat mechanics than many skirmish games involved small handfuls of models and even some RPG's, especially when you start factoring in Challenges in the middle of a battlefield where starships are firing at the enemy and squadrons of battle tanks are operating. It's always been a bit awkward but 6E has made it notably moreso.

But this has always been the crux of 40k. You have a world spanning conflict raging around this little portion of the battle where the Mr McAwesome heroes meet face to face, and fight each other in a bloody hand to hand duel that makes no sense because missiles and laser beams and orbital bombardments that could all easily pulp Mr McAwesome scream overhead and instead hit grunts while the awesome melee duel rages on.

6th edition hasn't changed this. It's just added more to both sides - even more gak going around that could pulp the awesome leaders doing their fighting but really won't, and also added some mechanics to make sure those awesome leaders actually reach melee and hit each other rather than being screened behind some grunts poking other grunts with their shiny stick.

Yes it has added more to both sides, and that's the issue. The phrase "less is more" exists for a reason. There's a difference between "detail" and "fiddly". The ruleset tries to play on multiple different levels and we get increasingly more situations where any level of immersion is broken with "well, that was odd" or "wait, why are we bothering with your IG sergeant fighting a Grot slave herder...?"

Too much stuff that belongs in Epic 40,000 is being pushed not just into Apocalypse but basic 40k games, and too much stuff best left to RPG's like Dark Heresy are going the same direction, and ultimately we end up with a game that's trying to do both but not really succeeding at doing anything particularly well. 40k's ruleset seems to be intended for a generally company sized wargame, but at the same time tries to be a skirmish RPG type deal and a grander-scale strategy game, and ends up being a watered-down and confused version of all 3.

Army sizes are getting larger and larger, unit costs in general are getting lower and lower, and it's to the point where many tables are just big blobs of dudes, at least on one side.

That's part of the reason I don't like huge "Everyone bring everything you can" apoc games, it just ends up being a literal parking lot against another literal parking lot 12" away, and more and more 40k games are looking like that (well, I should say Parade Ground instead of parking lot with the way 6E treats tanks) game mechanics are more fiddly than ever. It didn't start with 6E but its effects are exacerbated by it.

Furyou Miko wrote:^^; The ground attack craft like Vultures and Vendettas and Avengers being the best anti-air available has always bugged me, too. There should be a special Flyer Type called "Ground Attack Aircraft" that can't switch to skyfire mode.

Edit: Note that I'm saying this as an Elysian player and someone whose reaction to the inclusion of Flyers was "Oh, YES!".

Yeah, it's really clunky the way they just pushed everything together, the old FW flyer rules at least tried to differentiate that with air-superiority fighters having AA mounted guns and ground attack aircraft not having them.

 Vaktathi wrote:
[Yes it has added more to both sides, and that's the issue. The phrase "less is more" exists for a reason. There's a difference between "detail" and "fiddly". The ruleset tries to play on multiple different levels and we get increasingly more situations where any level of immersion is broken with "well, that was odd" or "wait, why are we bothering with your IG sergeant fighting a Grot slave herder...?"

Too much stuff that belongs in Epic 40,000 is being pushed not just into Apocalypse but basic 40k games, and too much stuff best left to RPG's like Dark Heresy are going the same direction, and ultimately we end up with a game that's trying to do both but not really succeeding at doing anything particularly well. 40k's ruleset seems to be intended for a generally company sized wargame, but at the same time tries to be a skirmish RPG type deal and a grander-scale strategy game, and ends up being a watered-down and confused version of all 3.

I take your point about some of the challenge mechanics - we shouldn't care about that IG sergeant and grot herder. Maybe they should have restricted issuing challenges to characters? That way lowly sergeants can't issue a challenge to a mighty lord of war, who would ignore him out of hand, but can certainly accept if he felt like becoming a smear on the ground. I do like the mechanic, because it helps bring to the fore those mightly characters in an assault, whereas in previous editions they hid behind the grunts along with any well equipped sergeants, poking over the grunts heads with their pointy sticks.

To be fair, flyers don't even belong in Apocalypse. I don't have an issue with Flyers mechanically, but like you said, they don't belong in 40k, but also not Apocalypse. Even the Apocalypse rules for them didn't represent them well - they made a strafing run every other turn, which is still too fast for supersonic fighters, who would take a lot longer to bank around and set up another run, and too slow for gunships, who would be more like 40k hover mode flyers. The board size doesn't increase that much with Apocalypse.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

There has never been a Golden Age of 40k, every edition has had its good and bad points.

That moniker has nothing, or at least very little, to do with the rules of any edition. The Golden Age of GW was truly the very late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, you has bitz being sold from GW online, the official GW forums (for good or worse), and GW had at least the appearance of very good customer contact and of being very accessible for the average gamer to get into the hobby, back when the internet was new and shiny.

All sorts of variant armies would come out in White Dwarf, and then be later collated into the big Chapter Approved books (or put on the site as free PDF's), White Dwarf was absolutely fun to read for 5 dollars a copy, and just about every other issue had cool things like punch-out terrain and player aids, beta rules for games like Necromunda and BFG, and articles on DIY terrain and conversion possibilities. Whole articles would feature non-studio armies and terrain, like the Tale of Five Gamers.

The GW of the last five years, at least, has absolutely none of that feel for me.

You should read what you quoted, I said there was no Golden Age of 40k and you are carrying on about a Golden Age of GW. In any event I dont even agree with you that it (Golden Age of GW) was the time you said it was. For me it was earlier when GW still supported space marine and titan legions. Around here the heyday of whfb was 5th edition even though I like the later editions better. I have every Man O War fleet so my own viewpoint about the Golden Age is different than yours. You define the WD of that time and the bitz service as very important, for me neither were all that important. I started collecting WD at issue 100 and always found the magazine to be variable from month to month, until the last several years where it is always crap.

The Golden Age of GW is going to be different depending on when you started and what you liked. For people that love plastic miniatures and hate metal miniatures maybe now is their Golden Age. Many old timers will say that third edition whfb or 2nd edition 40k was the Golden Age and give good reasons for their opinion. I was collecting then (1-3rd whfb) but rarely could game because I was busy with graduate school so my Golden Age was long after I bought my first Citadel miniatures in 1983.

I can think of a number of reasons that people could make a legitimate argument that now is the Golden Age of GW.

DEVIL'S ADVOCATE (Not all are my viewpoints!)

Now is the GOLDEN AGE of 40k and whfb

1) This hobby is really inexpensive compared to my other adult hobbies, (golf, martial arts, scuba, photography, travel, motorcycles, woodworking, model railroading)

2) GW is making models for practically all the units, unlike in the old timer days

3) I love plastic models, easier to build, store and transport, than metal

4) So many armies to choose from! More armies now than in the past for 40k and whfb

5) So many units to choose from, more in both systems than in the past!

6) Many national and regional tournaments and GW is NOT running them so I can use other companies models

7) Many very nice terrain kits available now, model railroading has come to whfb and 40k

8) Ebay! I can get stuff cheap or oop models easily compared to before ebay and Bartertown were around

9) White Dwarf, who needs White Dwarf, thousands of articles and video battle reports on the web

10) The starter boxes have outstanding models and get better every edition

11) GW forums, who needs GW forums, there are so many others and they are mostly a huge improvement over the drivel on the old GW forum

12) GW bitz service, who needs GW bitz service. Now there are several bitz providers competing with each other which is way better than having just GW as the source for bitz. (I am aware of the latest threat from GW but I dont think it will have huge impact on availability of bitz)

This list is not exhaustive, I havent touched on Forgeworld, LotR or the Black Library. Now one can also come up with a list of negative opinions that are reasonable but they are not counters to reasons why someone may be enamoured of GW. Some people are not bothered about the price or give two figs if GW is "interested" in them as fans or customers. They are just buying the product and enjoying it at face value.

All of these points are open to debate, but the point is you cant just flat out discount a reasonable person from forming the opinions stated above. It is a matter of personal choice and the whole price issue boils down to what your disposable income is in relation to how much you like the product.

Really the only flyers that hurt the game right now are Storm Ravens and Vendettas. I feel that vendettas only do so because of the cheap cost of the unit. Storm Ravens for being a flying land raider. Helldrakes won hard recently with the FAQ, but their cost makes them pretty appopriate.

Some armies fear flyers more than others, and some fliers even more. You really dont hear people complain about flyers when its a voidraven or dakkajet (much less the voidbomer or scorcha bomber) They complain about flyers that became flyers from a previous edition codex which IMO may have been designed with 6th in mind, wasn't truly designed for 6th completely. And IG vendettas were not designed for 6th at all, priced then pretty appropriately since AV12 did not last long on the battleboard in 5th.

I understand the frustration with flyers but dont buy into the sky is falling crap i hear every time i see yet another complaint thread. "GW sucks because of this one thing" "no its that single thing" Its always different for everyone.

I only got into 40k in 2009 or so (relatively recent), and the Golden Age was long over by then. For me from what I've seen, it seems like the Golden Age was the 1999-2003 period.

Paitryn wrote:
Really the only flyers that hurt the game right now are Storm Ravens and Vendettas. I feel that vendettas only do so because of the cheap cost of the unit.

And that it's transport. It's a transport converted to a gunship - any other upgunned transport in the game loses transport capacity when upgunned, but not Cruddaces lovechild.

The amount of upgunning it received, in any other army, would have lost it half its capacity, if not all.

The golden age passed about 15 years ago, by my reckoning.

The game hasn't been the same since the change to the current format from 2nd ed. It's been progressively less fun to play with each edition. So much so that my 4 armies have been relegated one by one to the shed-of-shame, and I doubt I'll ever play another game of 40k with them (on the plus side, there are other rules out there that work quite well for them).

40k wasn't my first game, though, nor will it be my last game.
I turned my back on the 40k tourney scene four years ago and haven't looked back, since.

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:

Of course maybe your mistake was trying to play the game competetively at all. It's pretty well accepted that 40k is not a good game for competetive play. Try playing it as it was meant to be - a beer and pretzels game amongst friends. you'll probably enjoy it more.

This.

And also. 40k is not loved because of miniatures - but because of the fluff. Of course, TT game is big part of it but that would be just another TT game if not for the 40k lore.
Most people don't play the game to win or to be competitive - they play because that is their opportunity to play with their favorite faction from the fluff.

JWhex wrote:
1) This hobby is really inexpensive compared to my other adult hobbies, (golf, martial arts, scuba, photography, travel, motorcycles, woodworking, model railroading)

How much are you spending on martial arts? Gads, tuition at our local dojo is 120 bucks monthly for a family of 4. Are you doing lots of tourneys? Are you taking martial arts from multiple dojos at once?

GW can be expensive to get into, but once your in, it can be fairly cheap to keep going. Once you have an army, you can just add one box a month and slowly build,

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Most people don't play the game to win or to be competitive - they play because that is their opportunity to play with their favorite faction from the fluff.

What I find interesting is the casual players tend to come and go.

Friday nights at my FLGS are the casual player games. You can go there and see lots of games going on at once. Every 6 months you will see a lot of turnover in the regular players there.

The competitive players tend to be very consistent. You can go a tourney and see the same players again and again year after year.
While your correct -- the number of casual players overweighs the competitive players, I have made more friends with the competitive players due to seeing them more often.

I'm quite lucky in my gaming group. There are 20-25 players and the only fliers that show up (rarely) are 2 storm ravens, a storm talon and 2 croissants. Even our competitive players hate fliers so hardly anyone uses them which also removes the need for anti-air. I think I've only ever played 2 games against fliers.

i hear you ive played 5 games of 6th so far and 3 against a mates DE 1 against crons and another against chaos ive won all 6 but the games against DE i played as my guard i had 2 vendettas and i curb stomped him the chaos game i was lucky with his hellturkey didn't come in till turn 4 and all he had left was abby and the turkey but even so the turkey roasted a good chunk of my force the only fun game ive had is against crons because neither of us used flyers it was a good old fashioned shoot out

 Sigvatr wrote:
Sure he is venting, but he's making a very valid claim.

Everyone who frequently goes to tournaments will face flyers. Lots of them. They are expensive and were made overpowered at will in order to increase sales. I am utterly disgusted by any IG player spamming Vendettas or Necrons with mass Night Scythes. I have never given any of those guys given 0 fairness points and in the entire local meta, those guys tend to end up with 0.4 sportsmanship on average and they thus have barely won any tournament. A few guys don't even show up anymore and only go to GW tournaments (slight remark here: GW tournaments suck monkey balls) - which is better for the game overall.

This being said, those guys in need of dire compensation are the minority though, most of the time, I see strong, but fair lists with max 2-3 flyers (excluding Vendettas, again) and a very clear image of TAC,well-rounded lists.

6th is a great edition, it's only flyers breaking balance - but they do so hard. The best games I have yet played did not include any flyer and were awesome games with well-rounded lists.

no offence intended 'but' you are attending a tournament where you would expect people to play to win so taking multiple vendettas is a way of going towards that goal. Secondly giving bad sportsmanship just because of vendettas? that is a bit pathetic, they may get on everyone's goat but there is not reason to slate them for it- Cruddace!!!

just my humble view before the flame war starts

uh don't get this rant, you are playin DA and you complain about flyers, just get some mortis dreads with Twin Autocanons or ally in Imperial guard for the blob and vendetta, & Saberplatforms. There is a solution to everything...

I would generally be more upset about the bad powerbalance in that codex, remember they are a gaming COMPANY, which means SELLING models ...

This is the Golden Age.

We have the Horus Heresy models and books from Forge World, we have (finally) a fun rule set (6th edition), and we're getting codecies released faster than ever.

 kronk wrote:
This is the Golden Age.

We have the Horus Heresy models and books from Forge World, we have (finally) a fun rule set (6th edition), and we're getting codecies released faster than ever.

This. Just this.

Exalted.

The only problem I have currently with GW is these dang hard-cover codex's that cost $50. Give us an option like privateer press. I've never worn out a softcover codex, and when the next codex is released it's just a dust collector anyway.

It's not a matter of money. I would just rather buy a soft cover codex for $22 online, and then spend the other $20 on a model.
They have the digital copies but IPad only. So for us Andriod tablet users we're just hosed.

As far as rules changing, and new beefcake models being expensive...when have GW models ever been cheap?
Countless times I've come up with a cool army idea, priced the models, and said to myself "Nope not worth it."
You want me to pay how much for 3 biovores? HahahahaHahahahhaHa!

Meganobz $200+ per unit? Wraithguard $120 per unit (which is actually cheaper than they used to be). I could go on and on. So $60 for a flyer? Not so bad. If it was $60 for a Storm Talon maybe as that's just too small for that price tag, but most other flyers are a good size and very complex kits.

Do I like the new rules? Ehh not really. When you put it all together it's all bad for some armies, and all good for others.

And I've already won one tournament in the new edition so this isn't coming from Mr. I'm suddenly getting hosed the rules are broken!

So it's not a matter of adapting to them it's just a matter of do the adaptations enhance the feel of the armies or not? and how do the rules play?

So that said I'm in the keep what I have, play what I have mode (which is a ton). Reluctantly buying the new hard cover codex's when forced to do so.

Meanwhile it has spurred me to start playing Warmachine.

Dunno, IMHO flyers aren't this rapetrain that everyone says.
I have played against some newbie full of Chaos Dragons, and I won easily, and I'm not a super-player, I'm an average one.
Believe me, if you annihilate your enemy's ground forces, even with those stupid flyers, you can easily win the game