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Tested two lists over the weekend; Chaos Daemons and Ravenwing. Thought I'd share.

Chaos Daemons

HQ

Bloodthirster - 2 x greater rewards
Keeper of Secrets - 2 x greater rewards
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration

Troops

11 x Pink Horrors
11 x Pink Horrors
11 x Pink Horrors
10 x Plaguebearers
10 x Plaguebearers

Fast Attack

10 x Flesh Hounds
10 x Flesh Hounds

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince - daemon of slaanesh, wings, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince - daemon of slaanesh, wings, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards

Dark Angels 'Ravenwing' - 2,000 points

HQ

Sammael
Ravenwing Command Squad - banner of devastation & apothecary
Librarian - bike

Troops

5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x plasma guns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x plasma guns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x plasma guns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta

Fast Attack

5 x Black Knights - grenade launcher

Game: Hammer & Anvil + Crusade - night fighting isn't active

Warlord Traits: Daemons - conqueror of cities (stealth and move through cover when in ruins)

Deployment

Dark Angels win the roll off and decide to go first.

Objectives had been placed with three in the Ravenwing's table half (they can boost back to them) and the other two firmly deep in the Daemon's table off.

Dark Angels deploy all units on the right flank; Black Knights deploy in a ruin while all other units are around the Command Squad.

Daemons deploy on the right flank and use ruins to their advantage to block LOS; Flesh Hounds deploy in and around the centre shrine ruin with two units of Horrors behind and all four monsters lurking. One unit of Plaguebearers deploy on the left on a heavy bolter turrent, unit of Pink Horrors support them, though Horrors hide behind ruin.

Bloodthirster got the 3+ armour save gift, which I swapped for blade of blood and also the it will not die + 1 wound one - that's a 6 wound flying monster.

Keeper switched one gift for lash of despair and got the lance gift.

Princes, both switched one gift for lash of despair while one prince got the fleshbane and armourbane ability the other I cannot remember.

Turn 1

Ravenwing do scout moves and all move 12" down the board.

Ravenwing first turn; all units move 12" down and keep within range of the banner, which is at the back of the bike formation. Black Knights lead the front with Attack Bikes.

Shooting; guns fire and waste the entire Pink Horror unit on the left flank, shots do go into the Plaguebearers but they don't go down thanks to the area terrain the turret is placed on. Black Knights fire rad shell into the Flesh Hounds in the shrine (can see them through the door way), only one dies to instant death plasma talons. More bolters fire into the Flesh Hounds and only five remain now.

Daemons first turn; Bloodthirster flys over and vector strikes the Command Squad; kills Apothecary. Depleted Hounds move out the ruin while the other unit flanks around the shrine and lurks in tank traps as not going to be in assault. Horror units move to get LOS, though only one from each unit pokes his head out. Keeper moves into the shrine ruin while Princes turn 90 degrees and fly from long table edge to long table edge and land in the position where the wiped out Horror unit was.

* I roll for -1 invulnerable saves to Daemons, great...

Shooting; Horrors fire into a melta unit of bikers (get 13 shots) and fail to kill them, takes the other unit to wipe them out(switched to prescience power for Heralds btw). Both Princes fire into Attack Bikes though only one of them takes a wound of a bike. Bloodthirster fires into the Command Squad though jink makes the save.

Assault; Flesh Hounds charge the wounded Attack Bike and wipe it out.

Turn 2

Bikers move up to blast Plaguebearers, Princes and Flesh Hounds and then flank around and deal with everything else.

Shooting; bikers unleash a hail of bullets into the Flesh Hounds, but stealth in ruins helps them and only two die and one remains on a single wound. Shots go into the Plaguebearers and only half remain after some bad rolls for them. Bloodthirster takes a huge amount of fire power, only loses two wounds and stays airbourne. Some Ravenwing blast into one of the Princes, it goes down and the Black Knights make very short work of it.

Daemons; Keeper comes out of terrain and eyes up those Black Knights. Remaining Prince and Bloodthirster vector strike two bike units; 'Thirster kills one bike while the Prince nails three. Pink Horrors shift about to get LOS while full strength Flesh Hounds come down to join the party while other unit prepares to attack an Attack Bike.

* Khorne's Wrath - only hits an Attack Bike out of all units on the table and then bloody scatters and misses!

Prince hits the unit it vector striked with the lash of despair and the squad is wiped out. Pink Horrors following the full strength Hounds fire at a plasma Ravenwing unit, though deny the witch stops any shooting. Other Pink Horrors try to stop a oncoming melta Ravenwing unit into the Plaguebearers on the turret, they only kill one and the unit now gets fnp, meh. Keeper kills two Black Knights with the lash of despair. Bloodthirster has a pop at the Command Squad but jink saves again.

Assault; Keeper charges the Black Knights and easily batters them. Depleted Flesh Hounds charge an Attack Bike and make mince meat out of it, though the Hound on a single wound snuffs it. Full unit of Flesh Hounds charge a melta unit of Ravenwing, they remain in combat and Ravenwing fail to hit and run.

Turn 3

Ravenwing form up and circle the Keeper as it is easy prey while the feel no pain melta unit go to take out the Plaguebearers.

Ravenwing put a gak load of shots into the Keeper, stealth does well for it and the last shot the Ravenwing have manage to take it down. Melta unit fires into the Plaguebearers and one drops.

Assault; melta unit charges Plaguebearers, Ravenwing get whooped though hang in assault. Hounds only kill a single biker they are engaged with, unit fails morale even with re-rolls from banner, but unit gets caught via sweeping advance and remain locked.

Bloodthirster lands and looks to assault the Command Squad. Prince vector strikes the unit the Bloodthirster vectored last turn, kills a single biker.

* Warp is Calm

Shooting; Horrors go to fire into a unit and get denied again, damn it while the other unit fires into the same target fails to kill any bikers and the unit gets fnp! Prince hits the lash on the unit hit with vector strike, only gets 4 shots and all bikers survive.

Assault; Bloodthirster charges Command Squad and gets 7 attacks on the charge thanks to blade of blood and wipes out the entire Command Squad and Libby, only Sammy remains on a single wound. Depleted Hounds charge a melta unit, only kill one - unit tries hit and run and fails. Full unit of Hounds wipe out the unit of bikers they are engaged with and consolidate onto tank traps. Plaguebearers once again beat Ravenwing in close combat, one remains who passes morale and does hit and run this time - feel no pain really helped this unit.

Turn 4

All remaining Attack Bikes (three) move to destroy the closest unit of Pink Horrors while the solo bike mans the heavy bolter turrent.

Shooting; heavy bolter wastes a Plaguebearer while the Attack Bikes take out all but two Horrors. Last free Ravenwing unit fires bolters and plasma into the Daemon Prince; loses a single wound.

Assault; Sammy loses a wound to the Bloodthirster while the two Hounds and Ravenwing draw in combat while the remaining plasma unit charges the Daemon Prince, they lose two bikers while the Prince takes two wounds. Single biker charges and kills the solo Plaguebearer. Attack Bike charges the Pink Horrors and kills the,.

Daemons turn; Horrors moves up to dakka the single biker in order to kill off troop choices, they still use the shrine to block LOS, though the mobile Ravenwing can avoid this. Full strength Hounds move to backup the Daemon Prince.

* Forgot to do warp storm, doh!

Shooting; depleted Horrors get a good number of shots and kill the single biker.

Assault; Bloodthirster batters Sammy and consolidates towards Attack Bikes. Flesh Hounds charge to support the Prince and wipe out the plasma Ravenwing unit. Flesh Hounds vs the melta Ravenwing finally give in, though only a single survivor remains who consolidates into terrain for cover.

Turn 5

At this point it is probably game over for the Ravenwing, one bike moves through the shrine ruin and then moves flat out and contests the objective the untouched Plaguebearers hold. The one which finished the Horrors off moves to support the single bike who is holding the objective on Daemons right flank and the last Attack Bike holds position as the objectives in the Ravenwing side are too far away to turbo boost too and the Bloodthirster will get the Attack Bike anyway.

Shooting; Attack Bike fires into the Bloodthirster and misses in fear or does nothing. Solo bike on the objective fires into the Flesh Hounds along with Attack Bike support, one Hounds dies.

In Daemons turn the Pink Horrors kill the Attack Bike which contests the objective while the Bloodthirster rips apart another Attack Bike as the Flesh Hounds tear up the single bike.

Only a single Ravenwing biker remains at this point.

Daemons win with 4 points to Ravenwing 2.

Summary

Starting with the Daemons then:

Bloodthirster is purey killy. I usually like a HQ which helps my army etc and while the 'Thirster doesn't fit this role he is damn tough and can absorb a crap load of punishment.

Keeper is a bit meh, which is a shame as I really like it. It only stayed alive because of the stealth rule. I haven't got the points to add mastery level 2 in order to hope to get invisibilty and then that's hopging, same with the 3+ save on greater rewards. I think I will ditch the Keeper.

Pink Horrors are ok, random and fnp is annoying, but did kill a single biker after failed toughness test. I can't complain too much.

Heralds are wicked, costly at first glance but to make things S6 and get re-roll to hit is just amazing.

Plaguebearers do what Plaguebearers do. They are more survivable to shooting if in cover but in combat they go down quicker. I wouldn't take any more than two units.

Flesh Hounds are wicked, I need more!

Princes aren't too bad. They are a little random with the lash (I never rolled high) but like Horrors you know what you're getting. I like them and I think I'll play test some more.

Ravenwing:

Librarian did f-all again. As I am no longer using double FoC I am going to switch for a cheaper Techmarine. Only purpose of an extra HQ was to bump up the Command Squad numbers and a Techmarine with a 2+ save will be damn handy.

Ravenwing over all did as expecting. Hit and run is useful.

Black Knights worked well, they are excellent monster hunters with those plasma guns and grenade launcher. I'll be keeping this I think.

The heralds are a bit expensive but the buffs they provide are well worth it.

Iv also found whips to be a good choice on the princes, especially if you take biomancy and can buff their str.

80 points they cost and for that you get S6 shots instead of S5 and also re-roll to hit. I don't think it is too bad considering other psykers are about 65 points, so you're paying an extra a bit more for re-roll to hit.

The lash isn't too bad on the Prince, unfortunately I do not have enough points for biomancy and it's pushing it for a single psyker power. Great combo though!

The only other thing I added for the Herlads Iv been using is to make them mastery 3, theny ou can take 2 divination powers and possibly grab a 4++ for a unit or ignores cover.

Both handy abilities to have I think.


Should only be 70pts for a herald with only an exalted locus too.

Yes that is cool. Gets expensive though.

And yes is 70 points, I put it down wrong on my excel sheet.

Wait are you playing both sides?

Why didn't you challenge the BT with Sam or the Librarian? Lose one model instead of four- and then hit and run away?

Just forgetfulness, dude. I did think of hit and run after, doh! All part of the learning curve.

 mercer wrote:
Keeper is a bit meh, which is a shame as I really like it. It only stayed alive because of the stealth rule. I haven't got the points to add mastery level 2 in order to hope to get invisibilty and then that's hopging, same with the 3+ save on greater rewards. I think I will ditch the Keeper.

<snip>

Princes aren't too bad. They are a little random with the lash (I never rolled high) but like Horrors you know what you're getting. I like them and I think I'll play test some more.

The only problem with dropping the Keeper is that you can't use Slaanesh Princes as Heavy Support. I think it's lame that the Greater Daemon I'm least interested in unlocks the DP I'm most interested in using.

Totally agree, though I think I have sussed it. I tried 11 x Pink Horrors, but as soon as you lose one you're down to 2D6 shots, so I am just going to save the points and suck it up with 2D6 shots. This lets me squeeze in the Keeper along with two gifts on it. What I could do is ditch a gift from the Bloodthirster and give the Keeper mastery level 2. I then could roll on telepathy table and hope I get invisibility, that would be wicked.

If I deep strike the Keeper or even run across the board the thing is highly likely to get a 2+ cover save and then has whatever gifts - hopefully the 3+ armour save.

Bloodthirster will be flying about and then can drop down and smash face. Plus there's two gifts I do not want for the 'Thirster - 3+ armour save and the lance thingy. Everything else is fine.

if you like fleshhounds make them one unit and add karanak,

 mercer wrote:
Totally agree, though I think I have sussed it. I tried 11 x Pink Horrors, but as soon as you lose one you're down to 2D6 shots, so I am just going to save the points and suck it up with 2D6 shots. This lets me squeeze in the Keeper along with two gifts on it. What I could do is ditch a gift from the Bloodthirster and give the Keeper mastery level 2. I then could roll on telepathy table and hope I get invisibility, that would be wicked.

If I deep strike the Keeper or even run across the board the thing is highly likely to get a 2+ cover save and then has xportswhatever gifts - hopefully the 3+ armour save.

Bloodthirster will be flying about and then can drop down and smash face. Plus there's two gifts I do not want for the 'Thirster - 3+ armour save and the lance thingy. Everything else is fine.

If you roll the 3+ armor, you get to re roll, and the lance shot on a bs10 fmc is crazy, could really help against other flyers and popping xports

Is the Keeper of Secrets a monstrous creature?

Yes he/she is.

 zachwho wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Totally agree, though I think I have sussed it. I tried 11 x Pink Horrors, but as soon as you lose one you're down to 2D6 shots, so I am just going to save the points and suck it up with 2D6 shots. This lets me squeeze in the Keeper along with two gifts on it. What I could do is ditch a gift from the Bloodthirster and give the Keeper mastery level 2. I then could roll on telepathy table and hope I get invisibility, that would be wicked.

If I deep strike the Keeper or even run across the board the thing is highly likely to get a 2+ cover save and then has xportswhatever gifts - hopefully the 3+ armour save.

Bloodthirster will be flying about and then can drop down and smash face. Plus there's two gifts I do not want for the 'Thirster - 3+ armour save and the lance thingy. Everything else is fine.

If you roll the 3+ armor, you get to re roll, and the lance shot on a bs10 fmc is crazy, could really help against other flyers and popping xports

You can't re-roll the 3+ armour save as it's not a duplicate gift; Bloodthirster has warp forged armour while the gift gives 3+. Both are the same but different names, though you do not roll for warp forged armour.

Still needs a 6+ against flyers though.

 mercer wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
... the lance shot on a bs10 fmc is crazy, could really help against other flyers and popping xports

You can't re-roll the 3+ armour save as it's not a duplicate gift; Bloodthirster has warp forged armour while the gift gives 3+. Both are the same but different names, though you do not roll for warp forged armour.

Still needs a 6+ against flyers though.

Why would the lance shot (Hellfire Gaze) need a 6+ against flyers? It's fired from a FMC, which means it gets to use full BS. At worst it's going to need a 4 to glance any flier.

Sorry, dude, my mistake. I had Keeper on the brain. I stand corrected!

also, for your warpfire stuff did you actually wound the models before they tested to get FNP? from the sounds of it you didnt cause 1 or more unsaved wounds and so the warpfire rule wouldnt come into effect.

Yes, I did the wounds first and then the warpfire test, which happened three times, passed twice and failed once.

Ok, i for some reason got the notion that it said somewhere that you didnt wound a person and they tested and then got it. my bad.

Nah, though one unit didn't take any unsaved wounds.