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For Daemon Prince:
In the Daemon Codex I don't think there's any reason to take them as HQ choice slots at all...
so which one is the best?
Their toughness really makes them crappy at the same time and the armour save is only ok for the price that you are paying...
So what would your reason to take them or what load outs?

I find that the CSM one is much more powerful with the Black Mace than any of the ones in the Daemon Codex so I guess it might not be a bad idea to choose from CSM instead~

For Pink Horrors:
11 or 20 Pink Horrors?
With 11 you get the double warp charge but at the same time is really very weak and easily killable, also adds a lot of strain onto getting more Heralds to buff them up, because S5 AP4 2D6 shots is not really going to kill a lot and gives someone FNP, not really a good idea...
With 20 double amount of shots and benefits from less Heralds so saves points overall, and doesn't give out as much FNP.

So what do you guys think?

 Makutsu wrote:
For Pink Horrors:
11 or 20 Pink Horrors?
With 11 you get the double warp charge but at the same time is really very weak and easily killable, also adds a lot of strain onto getting more Heralds to buff them up, because S5 AP4 2D6 shots is not really going to kill a lot and gives someone FNP, not really a good idea...
With 20 double amount of shots and benefits from less Heralds so saves points overall, and doesn't give out as much FNP.

So what do you guys think?

IF horrors are going to be taken, I feel it will be for the MSU dakka/beam power. I believe its 50/50 odds to roll the beam power.

3D6 whilst the squad is fresh, loose 1-10 models and your down to 2d6. Its better to keep this squad cheap. Even a herald death-ball, what's wrong with 16 models. Your spending 9pts to get the extra d6, you don't want to spend another 36pts (4 models, 20max?) to protect that D6, its not worth it.

Whilst you can be giving out (yes stackable) FNP, there is also an equal chance to outright wound a few more models. In addition, if you grant a squad FNP - it still may flee or die to certain attacks just as easily.

It is also good to remember that the warpflame toughness test is taken at the end of the phase the target unit suffered a casualty from the attack, so if you shoot with three 11man horror units, that is 9D6 shots and the target only gets 1 test to get the FNP if there is anything left alive after that mountain of dice

11 is almost as cheap as 10, and 22 is proportionally as close to 20.

The 1 point str buff is 1/3 the cost of 9 horrors, or 2/3 the cost of another herald to cast prescience.

Horrors aren't the ideal target for prescience. Fiends +hq, chaos spawn + hq, csm havocs, terminators, a 35 block of zombies with typhus, exc exc.. all better recipients for prescience
than 20 horrors.

 masquerade81 wrote:
It is also good to remember that the warpflame toughness test is taken at the end of the phase the target unit suffered a casualty from the attack, so if you shoot with three 11man horror units, that is 9D6 shots and the target only gets 1 test to get the FNP if there is anything left alive after that mountain of dice

assume you're shooting at 10 Space Marines with 9D6, you only cause about 5.833 wounds on average, so you'll be giving them FNP most of the time.
The good thing though when I re-read the part about warpflame is that it doesn't seem to stack on the same turn, so 1 warpflame roll per damaged unit, instead of 3-4 ones so that would not be that bad and it could cause more damage potentially around 33% of the time to do about 2 more wounds.
Against a non-FNP unit giving them a 6+ is ok.

11 is almost as cheap as 10, and 22 is proportionally as close to 20.

The 1 point str buff is 1/3 the cost of 9 horrors, or 2/3 the cost of another herald to cast prescience.

Horrors aren't the ideal target for prescience. Fiends +hq, chaos spawn + hq, csm havocs, terminators, a 35 block of zombies with typhus, exc exc.. all better recipients for prescience
than 20 horrors.

I agree, but if you don't want to start giving out FNP(4+), FNP(3+) etc... it's pretty important that more hit and hence more wounds.
But the thing is the wound ratio for having that extra S gives the extra killy power that you need for higher T things perhaps.

For Daemon Prince:
In the Daemon Codex I don't think there's any reason to take them as HQ choice slots at all...
so which one is the best?
Their toughness really makes them crappy at the same time and the armour save is only ok for the price that you are paying...
So what would your reason to take them or what load outs?

I'd consider Nurgle Daemon Princes.
1. They have shrouding which comes into play if the FMC Prince is shot down over terrain.
2. The default greater reward gives a plague sword that kills outright.

 Makutsu wrote:

 masquerade81 wrote:
It is also good to remember that the warpflame toughness test is taken at the end of the phase the target unit suffered a casualty from the attack, so if you shoot with three 11man horror units, that is 9D6 shots and the target only gets 1 test to get the FNP if there is anything left alive after that mountain of dice

assume you're shooting at 10 Space Marines with 9D6, you only cause about 5.833 wounds on average, so you'll be giving them FNP most of the time.
The good thing though when I re-read the part about warpflame is that it doesn't seem to stack on the same turn, so 1 warpflame roll per damaged unit, instead of 3-4 ones so that would not be that bad and it could cause more damage potentially around 33% of the time to do about 2 more wounds.
Against a non-FNP unit giving them a 6+ is ok.

11 is almost as cheap as 10, and 22 is proportionally as close to 20.

The 1 point str buff is 1/3 the cost of 9 horrors, or 2/3 the cost of another herald to cast prescience.

Horrors aren't the ideal target for prescience. Fiends +hq, chaos spawn + hq, csm havocs, terminators, a 35 block of zombies with typhus, exc exc.. all better recipients for prescience
than 20 horrors.

I agree, but if you don't want to start giving out FNP(4+), FNP(3+) etc... it's pretty important that more hit and hence more wounds.
But the thing is the wound ratio for having that extra S gives the extra killy power that you need for higher T things perhaps.

Want extra killy prescience a pair of soul grinders with phlegm, hit em with 8/3 tl large pie, and mop up survivors with 6d6 s5 hits. Horrors are a mop, not a hammer or a rapier. Heralds are best used to increase the accuracy of a hammer like phlegm.

Re-rolling to-hit works best on volumes of attacks. Blast weapons are, I feel, the worst thing to TL if given the option. Its a weapon that could roll worse on the second roll. The things that are ALSO worth prescience are things like FMC or ap2/armourbane units. You may not get many attacks but you want those that you have to hit.

And str6 is quite killy, vs most things - either in wounding or in volume, against vehicles.

Finally, the herald will generally have a shooting attack himself, so buffing himself & horrors is good synergy.

Blast weapons are, I feel, the worst thing to TL if given the option. Its a weapon that could roll worse on the second roll.

Really? Why would you re-roll it if you hit something? You only use the re-roll if you completely whiff.

I think blast weapons are ideal for a re-roll.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Blast weapons are, I feel, the worst thing to TL if given the option. Its a weapon that could roll worse on the second roll.

Really? Why would you re-roll it if you hit something? You only use the re-roll if you completely whiff.

I think blast weapons are ideal for a re-roll.

I think what he means is, if you roll a 7 and scatter, you could potentially reroll again and scatter even further, whilst normal ones you are guarenteed at least to only be better and not worse.





I'm not sure about the plaguesword thing have to take a look, but those rewards are random if I remember correctly, whilst the Black Mace is a guarenteed thing

Slaanesh Prince with 2 greater rewards, 1 as the whip. Make it flying and probably grab the armour save.
Can do some good damage to vehicles and provide some anti-air while still being useful for combat.

It may not be the outright "most pts efficient" way to go, but I love my 18 Horrors + Herald with their 7D6/S6 Prescienced shots. I've had that one unit kill of a Deathwing Command squad *and* put a wound onto Belial. (my buddy was not happy!)
Wounding most infantry on 2's can really make all the difference in the world, especially when you roll crap for your number of shots.
I also spend the pts to bring a Blasted Standard plus a bunch of Lesser Rewards on the Herald/Iridescent Horror to aim for 2x Corrosvie Breath results which can make the unit an absolute to try and assault. That's the potential for 2D3/S5 auto-hits followed up by another 2D6/S4 auto-hits. Ususally enough to stop the first charge dead in it's tracks and buy another round of shooting.
Expensive yes, but then I run a Tzeentch army so my Horrors tend to be more of a hammer than in mixed god/pantheon lists.

I just don't like the idea of running MSU Horrors because you're then relying on the Bolt power, or else your Flickering Fire is pretty 'meh'. Not to mention that Plaguebearers do the MSu thing way better than Horrors ever can due to Shrouding.