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**You can choose multiple poll answers**

So, we all know that GW has once again changed their trade terms in the US to further restrict the market.

IMHO (and many others) GW is driving toward total control of their own products.

Well, for me: there is no official GW store within 3 hours drive by interstate. Paying full retail for their models is out of the question (their website).

So the they offer me two options. One is impractical and the other is my choice but driven by economics.

I love 40k as an IP. I love the lore. I will continue to purchase books (not the blatant money-grabby limited/special/one-time-only/SUNDAY!SUNDAY!SUNDAY! books).

I have enough 40k stock to last me a long time. I am going to have 3 SM armies (1x 3k+pts, 2x 1500+pts) and still have 2k+ of boxed up Tau I could keep. With only buying codexs and rules I could probably keep playing SM's for a very long long time without actually needing to buy new models. I am not a competitive tournament player.

So, if my local stores are shutdown from selling GW, I still have ebay when needed. And if I wait a bit I can buy used rule books on Amazon or ebay. So I really do not need GW to continue to play 40k. And with the way the 3rd party guys are going, There will be reasonably priced alternative models for nearly everything I would need anyways. Even newly released SM vehicles are seeing proxies withing a couple months. I can also start a 30K army with only needing the rules books from FW.

So, I plan on happily staying with 40k without giving GW any of my money directly (or even indirectly in some cases).

Anyone else out there like me?

Could you direct me to where the new GW trade terms are revealed/being discussed? I was unaware that anything had changed beyond the stupid DftS direct only thing...

Continue to pay, buying locally as long as my local place can still give the 25% discount. If I can't get from him, eBay. If eBay fails, convert. If I can't convert...I don't get the model. I won't buy direct from GW, as it's a total waste.

 Lint wrote:
Could you direct me to where the new GW trade terms are revealed/being discussed? I was unaware that anything had changed beyond the stupid DftS direct only thing...

Well you got me on 'DftS' I don't know what that is. But they have forbid trade account holders from selling 'bits'. It's in News and Rumors.

"Death from the Skies" or "from Above" or whatever.



**edit, I'll just make my way to the other thread!

I buy mostly from eBay or online sellers and will continue to do so.

 Lint wrote:
"Death from the Skies" or "from Above" or whatever.



**edit, I'll just make my way to the other thread!

Ah yes. I do know of that, and that is a very nasty thing they have done as well. And put the LGS between a rock and a hard place.

I gave up playing 40k a while back - not from any sense of outrage, but just out of apathy and the discovery that there are much better gaming experiences to be had elsewhere.

I still buy GW. Sometimes just for a painting project. Sometimes for minis top use with other games. And I still enjoy 40k lore and fiction. I really enjoy the Fantasy Flight RPGs, Space Hulk, Death Angel and other non-core Games.

But I can't really be fussed with the 40k game anymore.

R.

Edited by AgeOfEgos

As an Australian that has been slammed with ridiculous prices by GW for years now; I too only buy 40k 2nd hand from ebay.

If I want to add a little extra I purchase parts from any of the awesome third party retailers such as anvil, kromlech or puppetswar.

I also only really model & paint and would only play with close friends so I am happy to use the old 3rd ed rules.

GW lost my business years ago and has little chance of getting it back.

Well, I don't even play the tabletop game any more, but I read Black Library novels and play the FFG RPGs when I have the chance.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yup, but since they wanted to fight dirty then I will fight dirtier, I plan on buying the books and copying the gaming info to an excel file and then return the book. If the money is pitched in by my gaming group for the book then it isnt pirating and GW can go themselves.

Model wise Im going to start casting stuff for personal use a lot more and teach everyone I know how to cast models.

How does any of this help support your FLGS and keep the lights on in the stores you game in?

And buying a book, copying it and then returning it is pirating.

Not sure what trying to compromise people to break the law does to 'show' GW or help people in any way. Just seems like immature internet posturing to be a cool guy or a temper tantrum.

If you really have a problem, then stop shooting up GW like you are a heroin addict and simply 'go without' or move on to something you don't have such a huge problem with the vendor.

I'll simply keep buying from my FLGS. While it's technically supporting GW, it's also supporting them, who are quite fantastic. While they can't put the usual 25% discount seen online, they do discount where they can.

nkelsch wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yup, but since they wanted to fight dirty then I will fight dirtier, I plan on buying the books and copying the gaming info to an excel file and then return the book. If the money is pitched in by my gaming group for the book then it isnt pirating and GW can go themselves.

Model wise Im going to start casting stuff for personal use a lot more and teach everyone I know how to cast models.

How does any of this help support your FLGS and keep the lights on in the stores you game in?

And buying a book, copying it and then returning it is pirating.

Not sure what trying to compromise people to break the law does to 'show' GW or help people in any way. Just seems like immature internet posturing to be a cool guy or a temper tantrum.

If you really have a problem, then stop shooting up GW like you are a heroin addict and simply 'go without' or move on to something you don't have such a huge problem with the vendor.

Sup kettle, Im black also.

I didnt say stop supporting FLGSs, they have plenty of other game systems and items that you can buy, Im saying go to GW stores and do so.

nkelsch wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yup, but since they wanted to fight dirty then I will fight dirtier, I plan on buying the books and copying the gaming info to an excel file and then return the book. If the money is pitched in by my gaming group for the book then it isnt pirating and GW can go themselves.

Model wise Im going to start casting stuff for personal use a lot more and teach everyone I know how to cast models.

How does any of this help support your FLGS and keep the lights on in the stores you game in?

And buying a book, copying it and then returning it is pirating.

Not sure what trying to compromise people to break the law does to 'show' GW or help people in any way. Just seems like immature internet posturing to be a cool guy or a temper tantrum.

If you really have a problem, then stop shooting up GW like you are a heroin addict and simply 'go without' or move on to something you don't have such a huge problem with the vendor.

If it worked for the government and prohibition, then privately owned company should be a walk in the park.

Here (not that we matter as a market thats for sure, but you can take it as a precedent), GW after the embargo and the outrageous pricing essentially lost its place to competing products. Betwin Piracy, Chineese recasters, ebay used armies, Privateer Press and other companies, they essentially shut them selves out of the market. Dont get me wrong, 40k is certainly still played, just not bought.

I started buying 2nd hand stuff for 40k back in 4th edition when the retail prices became something hard to justify to myself - with retail purchases being restricted to specific new purchases (in the last 3 years, GW made maybe $100 out of me). I no longer buy GW stuff new at all.

I stopped playing 40k before 6th ed dropped, though. Those miniatures I still have will be repurposed for Tomorrow's War (with the new book detailing powered armour special forces and aliens, I'm set). Excess models will be disposed of. Into the smelting pot if necessary. I started playing it in the RT years - but I've never been an exclusive gamer. 40k was usually my "other" game, now it's time for something else after 25 odd years.

Other players in my club have elected to return to an earlier edition after our club 40k tournament in a couple of months (after this event, we'll no longer be running an annual 40k tournament, so sticking to the "current" rules will be irrelevant).

Been playing 40k for almost 20 years. Not enough reason to stop now.

My answer?

Used Models and Substitution.

There are a lot of good companies out there that I do not mind getting my gaming dollar:

Max Mini, Scibor, Reaper, Mantic, Avatars of War, Raging Heroes, Kromlech, etc. etc. etc....

So, I don't buy from GW, since I do not want them to get their hands on my gaming dollars.

Add to this the fact that I do not like the current editions of either WHFB or WH40K and you can see where my money goes.

I play Kings of War and 3rd edition WH40K, and ignore the latest editions as best I can (which is pretty well - my group is mostly playing Kings of War these days).

The Auld Grump

Is there a vote option for "trying to rip people away from GW's teat?"

I have so much of thier gak, I don't even need anything else.

Only thing keeping me from up and dropping it off on feebey is that I had such agood time with the older stuff that I've been having a change of heart with some of this stuff.

Space Hulk
Necromunda
Rogue Trader
2d edition
some of those cultists, if i can keep from geting raped over them
Mordhiem.

Other then that, I'm having difficulty unloading extra gak. So for the short term, I'm caught in a flypaper trap.

There also is no option for publically disrupting games day this year.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

I'll keep and paint what I have and play this edition of the rules, buying this set to play in the local group made me break my 18 month boycott, until the next edition comes out. Hopefully GW will have hamstrung themselves so badly that no one will want to or be able to buy in to the next edition. The books will be far too expensive or these business gambles won't pay off and they will be less accessable to everyone.

Really they want to treat their products as being on the same level as other, more practical luxury goods? If that is so then they should expect to have the same limited customer base.

They should be making it easier to find and buy their products, but they keep withdrawing, when they should expand!

If they really want to make more money they need to get rid of their company stores, all that overhead is killing them. Let FLGS assume that risk while paying wages and keeping the lights on and the taxes paid.

Too bad kirby said he wants to open up 800 new one man demo stores.

No collecting option? I haven't much chance to play 40k in Japan, so for me it is mostly modeling and painting, i will try to get stuff through other paths, or use a 3rd party supplier, i am still in love with the whole background, but no love for GW

Hopefully the cost of implementing that will be their downfall.

Montgomery had Market Garden, Kirby has his massive roll-out.

Here is an example of how bad an idea that really is: I live in Kentucky, we have two GW outlets in the two major cities (one each), in each of those cities there are at least three other local stores. One of those cities has a wide urban area that extends to the next counties north, south, and east.. Those who play always go into the city as there are no game stores in their communities. There are two secondary cities with large populations which could be served by a GW outlet, but IMHO the interest wouldn't be there as it seems as though hardly anyone has heard of it, and if they have, are already not interested because of the prices ("seriously for plastic, that you have to assemble' and paint?). One town does have a small gqming community but only a few are GW collectors/ players but GW doesn't want them as customers as they all own multiple armies each.

So in Kentucky he has a potential if opening a total of four stores, maybe five. Where would you put more stores in a state? There is no way you could open another even 100 stores in the States without it affecting the bottom line. And he wants 700? I could see three more in New York state, i.e. Buffalo, Binghamton, Long Island; but that is my example, there are so few places with the population density to support a GW store that there are not even 700 viable locations in the whole entire US without stacking them on top or each other like they did in Chicago.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Too bad kirby said he wants to open up 800 new one man demo stores.

I cannot imagine how much damage is done to the wargaming hobby by people walking into GW stores and seeing the costs.

 SickSix wrote:

So, we all know that GW has once again changed their trade terms in the US to further restrict the market.

I didn't know this. In what way?

In any event, I don't generally play a game if I'm not going to support the parent company. Playing the game is inherently a support of the company, since it by defenition perpetuates the game and fosters continued awareness of it. If I am disappointed with a game to the point that I won't support them financially anymore, then I'm going to stop playing entirely.

That being said, I will make an exception for a company which has been acquired by another company. If I grow to love a game published by a company which is later purchased by, oh, say, Wizards of the Coast, to choose an example at random, I will continue to play that game despite the change in leadership. (Although I will not necessarily financially support the new owner, depending on the situation.)

That's just my opinion, of course. If what I read on the forums is an accurate bellweather, then I would guess I'm in the minority on this particular issue.

I do not play anymore, and have not for some time. But for the he last 2 years or so I played I spent maybe $200 a year on new models, everything else I either won, or bought used/bartered for.

Really, look at sunken cost theory and just abandoning ship is probably your best bet.

 SickSix wrote:
**You can choose multiple poll answers**

So, we all know that GW has once again changed their trade terms in the US to further restrict the market.

IMHO (and many others) GW is driving toward total control of their own products.

Well, for me: there is no official GW store within 3 hours drive by interstate. Paying full retail for their models is out of the question (their website).

So the they offer me two options. One is impractical and the other is my choice but driven by economics.

I love 40k as an IP. I love the lore. I will continue to purchase books (not the blatant money-grabby limited/special/one-time-only/SUNDAY!SUNDAY!SUNDAY! books).

I have enough 40k stock to last me a long time. I am going to have 3 SM armies (1x 3k+pts, 2x 1500+pts) and still have 2k+ of boxed up Tau I could keep. With only buying codexs and rules I could probably keep playing SM's for a very long long time without actually needing to buy new models. I am not a competitive tournament player.

So, if my local stores are shutdown from selling GW, I still have ebay when needed. And if I wait a bit I can buy used rule books on Amazon or ebay. So I really do not need GW to continue to play 40k. And with the way the 3rd party guys are going, There will be reasonably priced alternative models for nearly everything I would need anyways. Even newly released SM vehicles are seeing proxies withing a couple months. I can also start a 30K army with only needing the rules books from FW.

So, I plan on happily staying with 40k without giving GW any of my money directly (or even indirectly in some cases).

Anyone else out there like me?

You want to not give any money to GW? Then don't buy books. Oh, you can still get them, but sans the loss of your money.

And I am like you, though I live in an area where both my local GW and FLGS are ten minutes away, and the GW is in the same mall I work at, so I could easily walk upstairs and buy stuff whenever I am working. I like the lore, I like the game, but I don't like the prices or the fact that GW seems so intent on disregarding the internet as an important business tool. Their brand could be twice as big, if not bigger, but because of their overly restrictive policies and their horrid understanding of what the internet actually is, they have set themselves up to fail. Even the 20% off prices from Dicebucket are too much for me. However, I have plenty of SM stuff, plenty of Chaos, plenty of DE, plenty Necron stuff, etc, to even assemble. I am not buying any more actual models, instead using paper cutouts shaped like certain things on bases.

Time to Paperhammer.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 SickSix wrote:

So, we all know that GW has once again changed their trade terms in the US to further restrict the market.

I didn't know this. In what way?

In any event, I don't generally play a game if I'm not going to support the parent company. Playing the game is inherently a support of the company, since it by defenition perpetuates the game and fosters continued awareness of it. If I am disappointed with a game to the point that I won't support them financially anymore, then I'm going to stop playing entirely.

That being said, I will make an exception for a company which has been acquired by another company. If I grow to love a game published by a company which is later purchased by, oh, say, Wizards of the Coast, to choose an example at random, I will continue to play that game despite the change in leadership. (Although I will not necessarily financially support the new owner, depending on the situation.)

That's just my opinion, of course. If what I read on the forums is an accurate bellweather, then I would guess I'm in the minority on this particular issue.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/514316.page

Summary is listed a couple of times - as are links to the documents with the new terms.

I would have to disagree with the conclusion that continuing to play a game supports a company. When I get together with some of my old guy friends - we play AD&D. Not D&D, not 3 or 3.5 or whatever they have it numbered at now. It doesn't support WotC (I don't really have a problem with them - just the old rules never were problematic...so I never saw a reason to fix it). In the same way, some of the old guys like to play an occasional 3rd Edition 40K game - it does nothing for GW. Old rules, old models.

It might be accurate if you were only to take into account playing in stores, but if a person were to look at an old Codex and take a casual interest in the game then go look at the new Codex (and the new Codex prices) - it would likely push them away from the new products and towards the old through used book stores or eBay (after all - if people are still playing with the old rules...they must still work).

I've never been too terribly inspired by 40K's background as it tends to be fairly derivative. A lot of the same tropes which they use though get used in our games though, so it is pretty easy to confuse the issue if you were just to casually observe things.

For those who are so motivated, there is a significant difference between GW proper and their various licensees and subsidiaries. Black Library and Forge World both at least behave like they are working to please their customers. FFG has done more for defining and fleshing out GW fluff in their RPG series of books than GW had done in the past 20 years...plus most the guys from FFG I have met are pretty descent people. GW's core business is rotten though. I think I could probably stomach buying a Black Library book or something from Forge World - even though a portion of that sale would be going back to GW HQ.