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A half-recalled rumor from not so long ago goes that Nottingham has no idea what to do with Bretonnia. From my own point of view, the fairy tale kingdoms of chivalry look pretty banal compared to the rest of WHFB. Even the Empire, with is Steam Tanks, Celestial Hurricanum, and Demigryph Knights are far more fantastical. Bretonnia only has Pegasus Knights along those lines. The rest of their line looks dated not just in the sense of being older sculpts but also in the sense of being rather closer to "historicals" than any other army.

So what would you guys do to bring Bretonnia up to speed?

Not much really, they have a niche and fit it perfectly.

Maybe add Hyppogryph Knights as a Monstrous Cavalry unit.

Grail Knights on Unicorns?

An unit of undead knights, long dead heroes sent by the Lady to aid the faithful. Etherial, Undead, Grail Knight stats.

Heavy Infantry Foot Knights (With a much better name.)

Balistas- they need more warmachines.

More Outrageous French Accents.

Foot knights or veteran men-at-arms.

The undead knight idea is actually really neat. Saints back from the dead.

Unicorn/monstrous cavalry is also a good idea.

Souped up Lord/Hero version of the Grail Reliquae as a war altar type thing.

Full blown peasant levies that can manage to be cheaper and worse than current men-at-arms.

Full weapon customization on knights? Flails and what have you.

Yeah... I guess there's not that variety.

Men-at-arms could use a buff. They were kinda like the Middle class in the Middle Ages. Professional soldiers not of noble birth. They were definitly a step up from the peasents.

Then you have actual peasent levies. 2 points of crap. Can be upgraded to have a Grail Reliqua(or however you spell it)

Not much different. They already are a special army with their heavy focus on cavalry. It's not just their army book that's weak, it's mostly 8th nerfing cavalry in general. They are still viable and them suddenly getting huge monsters wouldn't fit at all. Maybe some cool special characters you can actually field or sth.? Got no idea.

They already have a Monstrous Cavalry unit in Pegasus Knights, so I dont see them getting anything else unfortunately Besides that, I cant really see what they could do with Bretonnia, as they are pretty solid for the most part. Just need a lot of point and rule changes in order to make them more effective at the moment. But, if anything I could see a new War-Machine like a Batista and Lady of the Lake Foot Knights/Peasant unit based off the Crusaders carrying the Cross. Plus, since if they base it off the Bretonnia books, I could see a switch of Grail Knights becoming a Character type of unit and replacing them with a different one.

I do like the idea of a unit of Knights like the Green Knight though. Spectral Knights charging out of the woods or mist to aid there Brethren in battle personally sounds like a cool idea to me =D. Bretonnia is by far my favorite army in WHFB, but I wont be buying anymore of them until they get a new book so hopefully they will come out with one soon.

Well Pegasus are flying MC. They could use a non-flying MC unit.

That would be something unique. Only book with 2 different MC units.

Ethereal Knights would be neat. Perhaps something like a unit of lesser versions of the Green Knight. Would also help offset the likelihood that they'll lose the Ethereal banner.

With GW's tendency towards bigger models, some sort of mobile Grail chapel "chariot"?

And, because someone has to say it, a large wooden rabbit.

They'll probably just put the Treb on the large base with a new model.

I could see the Grail Relic thingy the Pilgrims carry give out a buff aura.

and lol rabbit

I like the Anglican style of knights and such. Personally, I think I would try to convert them into more of a Hun or Mongol themed army. Though it would be difficult, I have seen models from other distributors that would fit well, plus I think it would be awesome.

I also think that there should not be 2 European based style armies of men, I like them both, but Cathay or Araby would be better, and have much wider area of possibilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would definitely like to see Grail Knights on Unicorns though, that would be badass, like armoured Unicorn mounts.

Ethereal Knights would also be really cool.

Warhammer already has not one, but two mongol/hun themed armies.

Ogres and Kislev. Yeah, Kislev hasn't had anything official for years but they're still there.


Brettonia is clearly Arthurian Legend. making them mongolian or hun would completely destroy the existing army. You might as well just write an entirely new army book.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Warhammer already has not one, but two mongol/hun themed armies.

Ogres and Kislev. Yeah, Kislev hasn't had anything official for years but they're still there.


Brettonia is clearly Arthurian Legend. making them mongolian or hun would completely destroy the existing army. You might as well just write an entirely new army book.

You mean 3, Hobgoblins are still very mongol like last I remember (yes they're not a full army by any means but still, GW loves mongols)


How would you feel if their Men at Arms polearms could be used as either spears or halberds in the same game? Maybe declare before a combat encounter. You cant change per round like BO but it might give them a wee bit more flexibility, even if halberds are usually the superior choice

 Grey Templar wrote:
That would be something unique. Only book with 2 different MC units.

I think that would suit Bretonnia very well.

 Manchu wrote:
Bretonnia only has Pegasus Knights along those lines. The rest of their line looks dated not just in the sense of being older sculpts but also in the sense of being rather closer to "historicals" than any other army.

So what would you guys do to bring Bretonnia up to speed?

I personally think Bretonnia is fine. I mean there are fantastical monsters in the other armies, and by the Lady, I need knights to slay them with!

Thats the allure of bretonnia, knights slaying monsters. Its all very heroic.
Besides Bretonnia does have some awesome models. Our plastics are all very good, and the Questing Knights are gorgeous.

What Bretonnia needs is some new rules to make certain units- like Questing Knights or the Grail Relaquie a bit more competitive, as well as plastic kits for Questing Knights, Battle Pigrims, and Mounted Yeomen to make them more feasible to field, which would do a lot to add variety to Bretonnian Armies that you see.

We also need a few more rare choices, but really thats about it.

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Warhammer already has not one, but two mongol/hun themed armies.

Ogres and Kislev. Yeah, Kislev hasn't had anything official for years but they're still there.


Brettonia is clearly Arthurian Legend. making them mongolian or hun would completely destroy the existing army. You might as well just write an entirely new army book.

You mean 3, Hobgoblins are still very mongol like last I remember (yes they're not a full army by any means but still, GW loves mongols)

Yep, was hoping I wasn't the only one that remembered that. Hell, Oglah Khan's wolfboyz were even from the steppes north of Cathay.

I would like to see them bring back the 'chaos' element of Brettonia personally. Way way back when (4th edition I think) Brettonia was a very different animal, it was actually really dark, Brettonian nobles wore wigs and makeup (think France prior to Napoleon) not as a fashion statement but to hide their mutations. The peasant population was plague and disease ridden, and yeah, just it was really dark and bleak, and I like that a lot more than the current fairytale kingdom.

There just isn't much to distinguish Bretonnian models from any number of "medieval" models on the market. Bretonnia is unique as to WHFB in that it is the least fantastical faction -- but that also makes Bretonnia generic as to war gaming miniatures more generally. I think that's a huge weakness for a faction in a game called Warhammer FANTASY Battles.

There is a spirit to their background that is really awesome -- feats of arms and mighty deeds, legend and song, nobility and chivalry. I'm going to go ahead and say (while ducking) that if the Empire is analogous to the IG of 40k, Bretonnian Knights are the Space Marines of WHFB. "Give me a village's worth of hale and fit Stirlanders -- or a single Knight of the Realm."

You're far from the first to suggest such, actually.

We used to joke in 40K 3rd that WHFB Knights were the reason that Meltas were AP1.

 Manchu wrote:
There just isn't much to distinguish Bretonnian models from any number of "medieval" models on the market. Bretonnia is unique as to WHFB in that it is the least fantastical faction -- but that also makes Bretonnia generic as to war gaming miniatures more generally. I think that's a huge weakness for a faction in a game called Warhammer FANTASY Battles.

There is a spirit to their background that is really awesome -- feats of arms and mighty deeds, legend and song, nobility and chivalry. I'm going to go ahead and say (while ducking) that if the Empire is analogous to the IG of 40k, Bretonnian Knights are the Space Marines of WHFB. "Give me a village's worth of hale and fit Stirlanders -- or a single Knight of the Realm."

That does kind of make me think that Bret could use a "unit attachment/mini character" option, kind of like gitz for goblins. Heck maybe even make Grail Knights as a champion for some units much like in the knight errant list or something

Aesthetics wise, go back to the 5th ed style where the 'nobility' is out and out corrupt.

I always thought that empires knights were the space marines cos they are split up into multiple orders

Chaos Warriors are actually the inspiration for Space Marines. Elite more than human soldiers.

Well I certainly would NOT like to see knights riding unicorns.

I would give the existing units some buffs to bring them up to speed with 8th edition. I like the idea of an elite force of knights supported by a poorer ragtag of civilians pressed into battle.

I would give the Brettonians a much greater variety of magical banners than are available to other armies (for the knights, not commoners)

 Manchu wrote:
A half-recalled rumor from not so long ago goes that Nottingham has no idea what to do with Bretonnia. From my own point of view, the fairy tale kingdoms of chivalry look pretty banal compared to the rest of WHFB. Even the Empire, with is Steam Tanks, Celestial Hurricanum, and Demigryph Knights are far more fantastical. Bretonnia only has Pegasus Knights along those lines. The rest of their line looks dated not just in the sense of being older sculpts but also in the sense of being rather closer to "historicals" than any other army.

So what would you guys do to bring Bretonnia up to speed?

Give them baguettes

But naw what do they need to do for them? They are just the noble chivalrous snobby guys I think they're cool. They only reason I wouldn't collect them is too many colours going on. I want more simple painting.

JWhex wrote:
Well I certainly would NOT like to see knights riding unicorns.

Why not? Would it make it any better if they were female knights? (I believe there is already a female knight in this range, after all.)

foxyfennec wrote:
too many colours going on

It strikes me that so many colors are going on because little else is.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Chaos Warriors are actually the inspiration for Space Marines. Elite more than human soldiers.

Source?

Outlaws would be very good, like Robin Hood style armies which don't have any knights (like a cheap version of wood elves, without the Dryads and Treemen.) And bandits, there is actually a pretty large thread about this over on the Roundtable of Bretonnia, which has all that has been suggested and more.

Would you mind posting a link?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Chaos Warriors are actually the inspiration for Space Marines. Elite more than human soldiers.

Except in Rogue Trader, Marines weren't really very "more than human". There were some genetic modifications(IIRC, most of it had to do with making them compatible for and able to control the implants for Power Armor) and hypnotic control, but overall, they were still human(they were even still the same height as non-Marines in the fluff). Rogue Trader was the most "Fantasy in Space" edition out there.

Also, like Manchu said: Source?

Couple of elite units based on the lore would do me. Something based on foot from Paravon, sort of middle ground between peasants and the Knights. The other would be an elite scout force based on something hunting the undead near Moullisson.

Thats all I've got at the moment.