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 Bolognesus wrote:

"hey mantic, a game with dozens of models and not one of them is a pony?!? nice going!" would make just about as much sense.

Maybe Mantic is planning on adding a white Equarian mercenary who is known for their scarlet uniform and goes by the callsign of "Skwig" and then won't you feel silly for that comparison. At the least it'd be a much better homage character than BB...

It's nice to see the new goals after that marathon one, but I'm still torn between trying to go big on this one (and running the risk of not liking the Orx at all) or waiting for a year to see what the proper WarPath KS will bring. I'm probably only going to go big on one of them, and it's a real toss-up at the moment for me.

^ Don't worry, if I ever end up with a spare $5k to put into a Mantic KS for a custom sculpt, I'll do my best to horrify you all.

 scarletsquig wrote:
^ Don't worry, if I ever end up with a spare $5k to put into a Mantic KS for a custom sculpt, I'll do my best to horrify you all.

Why spend $5k? You could just make a cult of personality in the KS comments getting a few people to make my little pony avatars and my little pony names, and to demand a pony character. If there's enough support, Mantic will make a pony character as an add-on for the rebels.

...Not to mention you'd vastly improve the quality and atmosphere of this KS's comments section

oh and given the amount of customers SS has probably brought in to mantic KSes by now it'd be no more than fair, too. Not to mention Krinsath's suggestion actually sounds like fun to paint.
...and I *hate* the whole MLP thing.

For what its worth... i'm probably one of the "guest authors" in that short-story collection... just for disclosure-sake. :-p

It won't keep me from being constructively critical though. I'm still a fan, and am still in for $400+ of my own cash. :-p

At this point I'm more excited for the fiction than the models.

Mantic's comments about the KOW problem really, really sapped my confidence in them. Unless they start showing amazing sculpts left and right, I'll probably drop down to a token pledge.

I can always go crazy in the pledge manager later. :V

im gonna pledge an additional 95 for the building add-ons

I don't really like the concept for the plague woman. Look too much like something you'd get from zombicide. Tough the extra sprues goal seems great, since the value you previously got for the terrain was average at best.

And for the BEEEP complaining about the lack of woman, i'd like to point out that also theyr is no disabled, no black and no Autochthon. Guess you'be be happier in another hobby than miniature gaming, since it's not pc enough for you

I just imagine that the Women in the Warpath universe are smart enough to avoid front line fighting on Plauge Infested worlds.

 DaveC wrote:
Confirmation that the $510k stretch goal does not apply to Strike team as it doesn't contain Battlezones just building sprues (or other game pledge levels) but there will be more for them later.

Mantic-logo.small
Creator Mantic Games 1 minute ago

Strike Team doesn't have BattleZones but will be getting more sprues by the end of the campaign

May just be me, but I think it is pretty crappy to have a 33% increase to the terrain not also increase the terrain in the Strike pledge (and in all game pledges to be honest).

 CptJake wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Confirmation that the $510k stretch goal does not apply to Strike team as it doesn't contain Battlezones just building sprues (or other game pledge levels) but there will be more for them later.

Mantic-logo.small
Creator Mantic Games 1 minute ago

Strike Team doesn't have BattleZones but will be getting more sprues by the end of the campaign

May just be me, but I think it is pretty crappy to have a 33% increase to the terrain not also increase the terrain in the Strike pledge (and in all game pledges to be honest).

For a 10k stretch after Strike Team just got a free faction? Good luck with that. Strike team will get more terrain, and it sounds like they were able to add more to each sprue with the final layouts.

streetsamurai wrote:
I don't really like the concept for the plague woman. Look too much like something you'd get from zombicide.

Don't worry. The final model will look nothing like that.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:
I don't really like the concept for the plague woman. Look too much like something you'd get from zombicide.

Don't worry. The final model will look nothing like that.

Ohhhh.... burn!

 CptJake wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Confirmation that the $510k stretch goal does not apply to Strike team as it doesn't contain Battlezones just building sprues (or other game pledge levels) but there will be more for them later.

Mantic-logo.small
Creator Mantic Games 1 minute ago

Strike Team doesn't have BattleZones but will be getting more sprues by the end of the campaign

May just be me, but I think it is pretty crappy to have a 33% increase to the terrain not also increase the terrain in the Strike pledge (and in all game pledges to be honest).

Why do people act like every single stretch is gonna provide free stuff for Strike Team? It blows me away how the next stretch adds a free model, the last stretch added a free starter, and because there is 10k worth of funds that don't provide free stuff, people gripe. Come on folks.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:
I don't really like the concept for the plague woman. Look too much like something you'd get from zombicide.

Don't worry. The final model will look nothing like that.

Oh stop it you!

I kind of agree that it's kind of a good idea to drop your pledge to $5 or something if you really aren't sure. On the other hand, if everyone does that, then we won't get anything like the same level of value for the finished product that we might otherwise have had! Some belief in what Mantic are going to be able to do (and some balls? ) are perhaps necessary in this case however.

Personally I think Mantic have done enough good stuff for me to be able to pledge a moderate amount for this - yes there might be a few misfires, but looking at the Dreadball season 2 stuff, and even a lot of the KoW range for that matter, I'm confident enough that I'll be able to re-arrange what I'm buying if necessary, and still not be in the position where I'm regretting spending money on stuff I don't really want.

Maybe a lower total will give Mantic time to focus on making the fewer models better models. Also, maybe positive reinforcement for negative behavior isn't the best method for creating improved outcomes.

 Pacific wrote:
I kind of agree that it's kind of a good idea to drop your pledge to $5 or something if you really aren't sure. On the other hand, if everyone does that, then we won't get anything like the same level of value for the finished product that we might otherwise have had! Some belief in what Mantic are going to be able to do (and some balls? ) are perhaps necessary in this case however.

Why would you drop your pledge? Treat your pledge as if you were going to go through with it, then near the end judge if it's worth it (or just sit on the pledge and check at the end if it's worth it and make necessary addition). This is true particularly if you're on an early bird. You lose nothing by sitting on a pledge, and it means there's more likely to be additional stretches unlocked at the end.

Pledges are coming in nice and fast now, increasing the amount of stuff in the terrain pledges and add-ons by a third really seems to have really helped get things moving after that slow stretch.

Earth Dragon wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Confirmation that the $510k stretch goal does not apply to Strike team as it doesn't contain Battlezones just building sprues (or other game pledge levels) but there will be more for them later.

Mantic-logo.small
Creator Mantic Games 1 minute ago

Strike Team doesn't have BattleZones but will be getting more sprues by the end of the campaign

May just be me, but I think it is pretty crappy to have a 33% increase to the terrain not also increase the terrain in the Strike pledge (and in all game pledges to be honest).

Why do people act like every single stretch is gonna provide free stuff for Strike Team? It blows me away how the next stretch adds a free model, the last stretch added a free starter, and because there is 10k worth of funds that don't provide free stuff, people gripe. Come on folks.

Perhaps because out of 2700 or so backers, over 2000 are Strike pledges? And almost another 100 are higher levels giving multiples of the Strike team? So perhaps even Mantic ought to consider those folks the main backers? Perhaps the less than exuberant number of terrain only pledges is an indicator that terrain only backers won't be the main source of funding for this project?

Come on folks.

A lot of people who pledged at Strike Team have also added terrain as add-ons.

The next stretch goal benefits these people as well as the terrain-only guys.

Beyond that, strike team backers will reach a terminal point, while terrain only backers are still untapped, I see nothing wrong in making terrain only (and terrain upgrade) pledges more attractive, I can see many positive things on that.

 Barzam wrote:
And I'd be very happy to have some more space zombies.

I can't get enough of them. I'm hoping they'll make enough off this kickstarter to make them in plastic.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 chris_valera wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
And I'd be very happy to have some more space zombies.

I can't get enough of them. I'm hoping they'll make enough off this kickstarter to make them in plastic.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I think if they get high enough they will do but they may wait until the WP KS for that as the basic troops of the plague.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Beyond that, strike team backers will reach a terminal point, while terrain only backers are still untapped, I see nothing wrong in making terrain only (and terrain upgrade) pledges more attractive, I can see many positive things on that.

That and since the the stretches also enhance add-ons, the buy-in for benefiting from the extra sprues is quite low. Good way to entice people to grab an extra terrain kit.

Besides, Mantic said they are hoping for 10 terrain sprues in Strike Team before the end of things, so it isn't like those not grabbing the awesome terrain kits will miss out on much. Which reminds me... Off to grab one of those urban detailing kits. I've been meaning to grab some stuff from AW for a while and this is a great excuse.

Regarding the lack of women and racial diversity in the current line-up:

I would rather have a game that problematically lacks any women and / or racial diversity, than have a game that is problematically full of sexualized women and / or stereotyped tokens. Case in point: Sedition Wars. If that's your idea of a positive presentation of women, with their pointless sexualized poses, or of healthy racial diversity, with the big black muscleman and anime Japanese kitten, then you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this. Don't even mention Kingdom Death: Monster.

Would I prefer a sensible, intelligently diverse presentation of race and gender in Deadzone? Yes. Especially because it more accurately reflects the modern world we already live in. Women can join combat units in the US army now, so why not get with the times? But I worry I would be "rewarded" for pushing that issue by getting a bunch of god-awful sexy ladies and / or cringe-worthy racist stereotype figures. This is my last post on the subject, and if someone wants to carry the torch for getting more racial and gender diversity into the game, I won't stand in your way. More power to you. But I'm concerned enough that it would backfire badly that you won't catch me leading that charge.

Does that make me cynical and defeatist? Yes. Possibly even a hypocrite, because I've seen the green for the Rebs female and i think she projects authority and capability, not sexuality, just as one would expect and want. But honestly - what has the gaming world done to prove me wrong? However much people dislike the Marauders, it doesn't hold a candle to the fury I'd have if Mantic put a bunch of thinly veiled racist human stereotypes, or pointless sexy-butt women, into my KS haul. Mantic has some smart, top-notch sculptors, but they obviously also have some that haven't learned basic anatomy or how to make a figure look like it's actually carrying a gun. What assurance do I get that Mantic will entrust the racially / gender sensitive figs to the sculptors with the smarts, maturity, and talent to do them well?

None, that's what. Do I want to roll those dice? No, thank you.

 Vermonter wrote:
What assurance do I get that Mantic will entrust the racially / gender sensitive figs to the sculptors with the smarts, maturity, and talent to do them well?

And, quite possibly the least stereotypical female sculpt I've seen from any wargames company in a very long time:

 Vermonter wrote:
Regarding the lack of women and racial diversity in the current line-up:

I would rather have a game that problematically lacks any women and / or racial diversity, than have a game that is problematically full of sexualized women and / or stereotyped tokens. Case in point: Sedition Wars. If that's your idea of a positive presentation of women, with their pointless sexualized poses, or of healthy racial diversity, with the big black muscleman and anime Japanese kitten, then you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this. Don't even mention Kingdom Death: Monster.

On racial stuff:

I didn't realise that these guys had a defined racial background


Is one of these worse than the other? The big dude is easily painted with any skin tone you choose.





Neither of these are particularly sexualised, either.


Now stop making me defend McVey/Sedition Wars. I feel dirty.

Would I prefer a sensible, intelligently diverse presentation of race and gender in Deadzone? Yes. Especially because it more accurately reflects the modern world we already live in. Women can join combat units in the US army now, so why not get with the times? But I worry I would be "rewarded" for pushing that issue by getting a bunch of god-awful sexy ladies and / or cringe-worthy racist stereotype figures. This is my last post on the subject, and if someone wants to carry the torch for getting more racial and gender diversity into the game, I won't stand in your way. More power to you. But I'm concerned enough that it would backfire badly that you won't catch me leading that charge.

Does that make me cynical and defeatist? Yes. Possibly even a hypocrite, because I've seen the green for the Rebs female and i think she projects authority and capability, not sexuality, just as one would expect and want. But honestly - what has the gaming world done to prove me wrong? However much people dislike the Marauders, it doesn't hold a candle to the fury I'd have if Mantic put a bunch of thinly veiled racist human stereotypes, or pointless sexy-butt women, into my KS haul. Mantic has some smart, top-notch sculptors, but they obviously also have some that haven't learned basic anatomy or how to make a figure look like it's actually carrying a gun. What assurance do I get that Mantic will entrust the racially / gender sensitive figs to the sculptors with the smarts, maturity, and talent to do them well?

None, that's what. Do I want to roll those dice? No, thank you.

Mate, this is your second post ever. You're already flying the "this is my last post on this subject" flag? Are you here to discuss games, or here to make grand, meaningful sweeping statements/rants and put yourself on the cross? You clearly have a bunch of personal issues around gender and race, and you're getting a bit too excited about it. The "gaming world" doesn't really care about you. They care about what sells. Hopefully, someone will release female troops who dress just like the guys - there's quite a few of us here who keep asking for those. Great martyrdom statements like yours don't really help, though. As far as racial issues go, they're your own. I choose the colour of the paint that goes onto my models, and have always done so.

Erm, they are Toy Soldiers..... playing the Racial card seems a mite i dunno.... pointless?

Its not like the ethnic divergences are the bad guys or anything or portrayed in a negative light.

Its weird really, When i paint space marines they are always white. Not racist just happens to be. My catchan army however had a variety of skin types. (doing tattoos on dark skin was a particular challenge)

There's nothing to stop you painting the models any colour you want, never has been. I dont think its a reflection on you if they all happen to be caucasian.

Im probably in this kickstarter just for the terrain though tbh as the models dont really do it for me. Im sure you're not suggesting THATS not ethically and sexually diverse enough?

I've always deliberately painted my models with a variety of skin tones. Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Ogres, Necromunda Gangers... whatever. I also vary the skin tones of my orcs. Some have lighter green skin, some darker. Same thing, different colour spectrum.

The only races I don't really vary in that way are Dwarves and Elves (Squats and Eldar). I suppose I see them as more specifically northern European, with a mix-in of Celtic for dwarves and fey for elves - though I can also do swarthy/Middle Eastern for Chaos Dwarves and their derivatives.

Good responses, guys.

Azazelx, you're right that "last post on this subject" was a pretty obnoxious thing for me to say on a chat board. Downright stupid, really. It's a shame we got off on the wrong foot, as I've enjoyed reading your posts. But yes, that's entirely my fault; I should actually thank you for catching me out on that. You're also spot on in saying I was making a "sweeping" statements, especially in regard to Sedition Wars. I really wasn't fair to Studio McVey.

Even if I'm being accurate about my own opinion, (which I don't believe carries any more weight than anyone else's), I'd call Sedition Wars more of a mixed bag. I don't have any problem with most of the figures you posted, and if I'd been clearer and more precise with my criticism in the first place, you wouldn't have needed to go to the trouble. My fault - I own the game, have the figures, and have varied opinions on them. Should have known better.

We do disagree on the guy in the exo-suit, though. I take your point that you can paint your figures to be whatever race you like, or imagine them to be whatever race you like under their helmets. But it's another thing when you sculpt a figure to represent a race, in this case as an African-American, and then you make the one figure you sculpt that way over-muscled and huge. You can paint him white and name him Bernhard Schadenfreude if you like, but his features are still going to be African-American, and he's still going be the African-American character in the IP, the story, and any official publications. We might not agree, but yes, I think that's a problem. I can still enjoy the game, but yeah, I'd rather the one figure they'd sculpted to be African American hadn't been defined by being the biggest, burliest figure of the bunch. I like Sedition Wars a lot, both for the imaginative Strain villains and for many, if not all, of the human figures, male and female. But that guy was a disappointment to me.

DiabolicAl - I think you're concerned I'm somehow saying that gamers are racist. I'm not, and I don't believe that, regardless of how you or anyone else imagines or paints their forces. Imagine your forces any way you like, because if you don't have that privacy and freedom, what's the point? That's the beauty of the hobby. But given that my last post was over the top, I can't blame you for getting that impression. Generally I think the gaming industry has the same problems most pop culture industries have with race and gender, no more, no less.

Scarletsquig - Good visual points - thank you for that. I shouldn't have given Mantic such short shrift on the race / gender thing, especially since the Marauder issue is really an apples and oranges comparison. Again, I really should have known better and thought before I put my foot in my mouth. I always thought that female MVP was a pretty fantastic move for Mantic to make, too.

My apologies to everyone for going too far, exhibiting some painfully sloppy thinking, and writing something unfair and even insulting. You all have my respect, and my thanks for letting me know I was being an ass. I will learn from this.