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I'll ask this again - how is Mephiston good vs FMCs? His only shooting attack is a plasma pistol, and obviously that's only hitting 1/6 times (1/3 with Divination), and even then the FMC can dive and pass their grounding test to ignore poor ol' Mephiston.

Does he go after them when they get out of swoop mode and attack your troops? That would make sense, but then it doesn't really matter that they are FMCs anymore. Furthermore, your opponent would probably be better off trying to Vector Strike your Marines rather than leave the safety of the skies to attack them.

What does it say about the BA that Mephiston is more functional in a DA list than a BA list? I really like the core rulebook to 6th edition, but it has made BA miserable to play.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I'll ask this again - how is Mephiston good vs FMCs? His only shooting attack is a plasma pistol, and obviously that's only hitting 1/6 times (1/3 with Divination), and even then the FMC can dive and pass their grounding test to ignore poor ol' Mephiston.

Does he go after them when they get out of swoop mode and attack your troops? That would make sense, but then it doesn't really matter that they are FMCs anymore. Furthermore, your opponent would probably be better off trying to Vector Strike your Marines rather than leave the safety of the skies to attack them.

He's good against FMCs which charge you, not so much FMCs which fly around and shoot. I'm not worried about FMCs which fly around because I A) Out-shoot them B) Skyfire them with Contemptors and they die. FMCs which charge you (BTs, Daemon Prince with Biomancy) are slightly more iffy, because I don't have anything that can handle them in combat without dying/ shooting everything at it is an inefficient use of firepower.

Like I listed, he's good against most MCs, and if they whiff just one of their wounds, he can insta-death them. This makes charging in a risky prospect.

Ravenwing lack A) Things that can reliably kill MCs in assault and survive and B) Strong anti-vehicle assault, C) Effective anti-Plague Marine options. He's efficient against Dreadknights, Tervigons and Riptides, all now relatively common and inefficient for me to fire at.

Well the DA have their codex and the BA haven't yet, don't fret!

For 250+ points, a reliable vehicle killer could include lascannon Devastators in a Lazerback that could cause Instant Death on many of those concerns and not require the points burned on an alliex contingent...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
For 250+ points, a reliable vehicle killer could include lascannon Devastators in a Lazerback that could cause Instant Death on many of those concerns and not require the points burned on an alliex contingent...

Yes, Lascannon devs are great at killing vehicles in assault, aren't they? Read before you post.

How are moving Mephy around the table though? Have you got a dedicated transport for him? I mean if he fails his psychic test he's just a ground unit until the next turn

 stubacca wrote:
How are moving Mephy around the table though? Have you got a dedicated transport for him? I mean if he fails his psychic test he's just a ground unit until the next turn

Sang Wings, it's not hugely unreliable... in any case Ravenwing have mobility cornered, it's not an issue, and I play on small boards.

Aren't most MCs immune to instant death? Demons, for sure, right?

I can't think of a MC off-hand that is immune to ID.

Demons lost it all in their new codex.
Nids don't have any.
Chaos marines DP isn't immune.
Dreadknight isn't immune.
Pretty sure the Riptide isn't (but he's got a 2+ save)

Given the choice between massed plasma/missile fire, and just smacking them with Meph....Meph is the better choice of course, but considering the investment, and the fact he has some bad match ups makes him a dicey choice.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
For 250+ points, a reliable vehicle killer could include lascannon Devastators in a Lazerback that could cause Instant Death on many of those concerns and not require the points burned on an alliex contingent...

Yes, Lascannon devs are great at killing vehicles in assault, aren't they? Read before you post.

Think with your brain, why assault what you can shoot before it has a chance to be a problem?

 Carnage43 wrote:
I can't think of a MC off-hand that is immune to ID.

Demons lost it all in their new codex.
Nids don't have any.
Chaos marines DP isn't immune.
Dreadknight isn't immune.
Pretty sure the Riptide isn't (but he's got a 2+ save)

Given the choice between massed plasma/missile fire, and just smacking them with Meph....Meph is the better choice of course, but considering the investment, and the fact he has some bad match ups makes him a dicey choice.

Damn, you're right, he's bad against Dreadknights and Riptides. Nids tend to run Biomancy, so you do get the occasional Iron Arm Flyrant or DP.
Still not a concern for Contemptors, though.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Krellnus wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
For 250+ points, a reliable vehicle killer could include lascannon Devastators in a Lazerback that could cause Instant Death on many of those concerns and not require the points burned on an alliex contingent...

Yes, Lascannon devs are great at killing vehicles in assault, aren't they? Read before you post.

Think with your brain, why assault what you can shoot before it has a chance to be a problem?

Because Ravenwing is a close ranged shooty army that needs assault options when melta fails. Also, I don't own any Devastator models and do not plan to.

"Demons lost it all in their new codex. "

Well at least now the Grey Knights' penchant for force weapons makes sense. I always thought it was beyond lame that the demons were immune to that scheme.

Weren't Nids immune to ID at some point? I've played so many editions I'm getting my wires crossed.

Mhmm, in 4th being in Synapse gave EW.

And for a while in 5th, the Nids were using the 4th edition codex. That's what I was thinking of.

I'd prefer to shoot these things, but susceptibility of all this stuff to ID does give Mephiston some utility beyond what I thought.

the problem is I find shooting quite hit and miss. If you rely on a single phase the dice sometimes won't go in your favour, and it's nice to have a backup assaulter with Str 10 force weapons and preferred enemy and six attacks on the charge.

I think it works because of the power field generator. Although arguably, FNP from a priest is almost as good. I haven't been able to get him to work in 6th myself.

Hm, sure I can fit a priest in to get both...

Yeah, that would be pretty dope. You can bring some BA ASM for some scoring action, too maybe. They are good counter attackers as well.

Ugh he's the price of a bike squad and doesn't synergise with the banner- if he affected the DA units as well it would be worth it. I suppose we'll have to wait for the codex to drop.

If only Brother Corbulo could take a bike or jump pack...

I'm already running them as a suicide melta drop-pod unit... assault marines are kind of terrible this edition, but if they can blow up a tank on the way in they'll get back their points cost!

Actually BA ASM would still be good if they still had init 5 on the assault. But they don't. So they're not.

Why are people saying they use Mephiston against dread knights?

Dread knights have a 2+ armor save and mephiston's sword is AP 3. If you fail to wound, the dread knight will wound you back easily and then kill you with its force weapon.

I think that's a terrible idea!

Yes, DKs remain a problem for RW lists. But unless they pack a Personal Teleporter they're too slow to catch Mephi!

Which they usually do, number one, and number two not really. Just have them trundle along next to other units that Mephiston is heading for. It's not difficult to predict where he'll be going.

It's kind of hard to get the DK into B2B with a single 25mm infantry base, especially if you charge him into a group of 10 strikes or whatever and they surround him during the pile in step. You can basically bubble-wrap him with your opponents' units in cc.

20.000. jesus that's a lot of points.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
For 250+ points, a reliable vehicle killer could include lascannon Devastators in a Lazerback that could cause Instant Death on many of those concerns and not require the points burned on an alliex contingent...

Yes, Lascannon devs are great at killing vehicles in assault, aren't they? Read before you post.

Why are you letting vehicles get that close? Overthinking your "undefeated" army will make you lose games.

Because Melta. I should stop feeding the troll, really.

What does Melta have to do with Lascannon Devs in a Lazerback?
The question stands - why rely on assault to kill vehicles or hard targets?

The higher the AV, the more reliable Mephiston is over lascannons, I suppose. But you are waiting to the last second to do it. I'll admit this is a good use of Mephiston; I just can't figure out how to adapt it to BA.

It's 1 STR higher, and Meph is worse AP (so less likely to wreck the target if/when he does pen). Meph gets 5 attacks and let's say he assaults a Land Raider on turn 2. 5 attacks, 4 hit, 2 pens and a glance, it's not unlikely the LR survives.

The lascannons get 10 shots over those 2 turns, 7 hit, 2 pens and a glance, more likely that the vehicle is wrecked. And if the wreck happens in the first turn they can do something else the second turn.

Mephiston assaulting vehicles is a last-ditch thing when all my melta fails me. Ravenwing is a medium-ranged army with very little long-ranged anti armour but lots of melta and multi-melta.

The reason I take Attack Bikes / Mephiston over Lascannon Devs is because they synergise with the list and can support each other. With Lascannon Devs I have to split my army and defend against backfield threats to the Devastators while losing points to provide them with meat shields and lose salvo on the ABs. Devs also die relatively easily to return fire unless in cover. Ravenwing works because you can bring to bear your entire army against single units of the enemies' force, and having an element that cannot works less efficiently.

Mephiston is there to mow down the rank and file/ counter charge nasties that get too near my list and threaten the bikers, and provides a CC edge that the normal RW lacks.

I'm not sure how he fits into a BA list because it lacks the shooting, 4++ Power field and alpha-strike potential of a RW list.

Hmm. rethinking Mephiston against Riptides, because they can't really hurt him (3A at 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound) while if they fail even a single save (5A, 3+ hit with rerolling ones, 2+ to wound rerolling ones) they're dead.