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For added insult, though, he completely falls apart against rules of warding and shadow of the warp.

But still, the biggest flaw is the fact that the divination libby is a force multiplier and Mephiston is not. Giving a squad counter attack and full BS overwatch or the 4++ save is way better than what Mephiston brings to the table. The sick part is that you can have two jump pack libbies for the price of one Mephiston. That's a lot of divination support.

Mephiston does indeed do all the things you enumerated. I'm not debating that. It's the price tag. *250* pts is just crazy expensive.

Martel732 wrote:
Yup Dante is weak sauce for 225 pts.

add him to the LONG, LONG list of bad special characters.

He's still the best FMC hunter available to Marines, however, which is the only reason I'm taking him.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
He's still the best FMC hunter available to Marines, however, which is the only reason I'm taking him.

I have found Vendettas to be a bigger issue than FMC honestly.

Martel732 wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
He's still the best FMC hunter available to Marines, however, which is the only reason I'm taking him.

I have found Vendettas to be a bigger issue than FMC honestly.

How does Mephiston deal with FMCs exactly? Maybe regular MCs, but he's pretty much useless vs FMCs. Even then, most MCs will go down to a single volley of missile launchers, although he might come in handy if your opponent is spamming... of course, the only armies which can do this are Daemons and Nids, and Nids have good psychic defense.

counter-assault, force weapon/Bk -1t insta death. Is a Mortis Contemptor better, though?

I don't see how Mephiston is any kind of answer to MC. I prefer to shoot them before they even get close, ML, LC and PG he the job done without the hefty price tags and liability of a character without IC or an invulnerable.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I don't see how Mephiston is any kind of answer to MC. I prefer to shoot them before they even get close, ML, LC and PG he the job done without the hefty price tags and liability of a character without IC or an invulnerable.

Snapshooting weapons into FMC is terribly inefficient, I find. Although I am leaning towards two Mortis Contemptors right now, the amount of firepower they put out is obscene.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
counter-assault, force weapon/Bk -1t insta death. Is a Mortis Contemptor better, though?

you cannot assault a flyer or FMC unless you ground it.

From what I hear its not to hard to ground a FMC with gunfire. Also I always have either a quad gun, a vendetta or a storm raven in my lists. All have no problem with FMCs.

Even better, multiple Vendettas Skyfire LCs never get old.

Martel732 wrote:
Even better, multiple Vendettas Skyfire LCs never get old.

Skyfire TWIN LINKED LC even better.

Everytime I have had my SR shot down, it's been from one volley from one vendetta. Damn are they good planes.

Ran Mephiston today against Daemons and he rocked- ate a Soulgrinder, Skulltaker, twenty Bloodletters, and ten plaguebearers taking a single wound. Shot the DPs and LOC to death with the rest of my army. Quite pleased with how he synergises, getting a model for him now.

Glad he worked out for you, but not all matchups will be as favorable.

What should I be looking out for?

AP 2 weapons, terminators, runes of warding, Dark Eldar poison weapons, monstrous creatures that ignore his 2+ save.

I.E. Threats to any Terminator/Power Armoured army and Psykers in general?

Skulltaker should have kicked his ass. I dunno what their list was, but if they had a Bloodthirster or Keeper of Secrets, or possibly even a Daemon Prince, they probably would have mulched him. I'm surprised none of those things decided to come over and put a stop to that.

His list was

LoC, Grimoire
Skulltaker

10 BL
10 BL
10 Plaguebearers
10 Plaguebearers
5 Screamers

Skull Cannon
Soul Grinder, Phelgm, MoN
DP Tzeentch, 3, Wings, Armour

I ran
Sam
Banner Squad
LRC
4x RAS, naked
Contemptor Mortis, Cyclone
Mephiston
Assault Squad, Drop Pod

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I.E. Threats to any Terminator/Power Armoured army and Psykers in general?

Basically. Plasma is particularly dangerous I think due to a high rate of fire.

Plasma is dangerous but reliably getting 5 wounds on a T6 2+ 4++ model in two turns is a challenge for any army.

Especially when said model is infantry sized, and can easily hide on the first/second turn.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Plasma is dangerous but reliably getting 5 wounds on a T6 2+ 4++ model in two turns is a challenge for any army.

Especially when said model is infantry sized, and can easily hide on the first/second turn.

Why just 2 turns? Also, I imagine he gets away from the 4++ when he gets into assaults, right? Or, can't people just kill the 1W techmarine? THEN shoot Mephiston? The techmarine will die to small arms fire, freeing up bigger guns for Mephiston.

You can hide the Techmarine in a bike squad, give him a Darkshroud 2+ cover, etc. Ideally Mephiston is assaulting things he won't need the 4++ in combat with, but if absolutely necessary the tech can join him.

In any case, either models require an inordinate amount of firepower to kill in a turn or so, barring unbelievably bad dice rolls. Meanwhile the rest of the Ravenwing is wrecking your face.

No, the Techmarine can't join him. ICs can never join units that consist of a single model.

And you got pretty lucky with the dice IMO.

I dont know, you see me play Lyall the other week, first turn shooting took down his bloodthirster just from weight of fire and I still had more to shoot.

When I am at the club next I'll happily use my normal list and I have a meph model you can use, proof is in the pudding!

rigeld2 wrote:
No, the Techmarine can't join him. ICs can never join units that consist of a single model.

And you got pretty lucky with the dice IMO.

The techmarine can join him in the assault by charging the same unit he does.

Gamblers fallacy or sheer hubris, somehow I find I roll much better when I believe in the unit I'm using- I had full confidence in Mephi and he didn't let me down! Nothing in the list could really hurt him except the LoC with the 2++ rerollable, and I made sure it died as soon as possible by firing 80 bolter shots at it every turn.




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MarkyMark wrote:
I dont know, you see me play Lyall the other week, first turn shooting took down his bloodthirster just from weight of fire and I still had more to shoot.

When I am at the club next I'll happily use my normal list and I have a meph model you can use, proof is in the pudding!

Well he did run it pell-mell into your entire army Let's try it out and see.

I played a fun game tonight with 3 other people, 2 vs 2 1k each. My side (BA and DA) faced two FMC. I was able to kill one, but they were both hard to deal with. I sat down witht the chaos player after the game and we discussed Mephiston vs a FMC. He stated that Mephiston will win most of the time vs them.

I'm not saying I am gonna use him often, but if I am playing against chaos, he's probably gonna be fielded. And I would probably field him iny Stormraven, that way I can choose the battle. Damn those FMC can cover the board so quickly.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I played a fun game tonight with 3 other people, 2 vs 2 1k each. My side (BA and DA) faced two FMC. I was able to kill one, but they were both hard to deal with. I sat down witht the chaos player after the game and we discussed Mephiston vs a FMC. He stated that Mephiston will win most of the time vs them.

I'm not saying I am gonna use him often, but if I am playing against chaos, he's probably gonna be fielded. And I would probably field him iny Stormraven, that way I can choose the battle. Damn those FMC can cover the board so quickly.

Tailoring? I say.

Mephiston > non-Iron Armed GUOs, DPs, Heralds, Fateweaver, Flyrants, Lords of Change, Keepers of Secrets.
Bloodthirster, Skarbrand > Mephiston although if they whiff even a single one of their wounds, I.E. cause less than 5, theres a good chance they're dead.

Ideally you want him crushing the rank and file and picking off nasty heralds and vehicles, while the rest of the army shoots the FMCs to death. At the end of the day they're only T6/T5 creatures with 5/4 wounds and crappy saves.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to run Mephi and Co against my Tzeentchian flying circus and see how he performs tomorrow.

We didn't get to go first. We held a lot in reserve. The demons player ironically had a dark eldar ally (made more sense to have the two marine players together). They basically spat out a lot of venom shots and we in turn rolled a lot of 1s and2s for our power armor saves causing us to loose a lot of firepower on the first turn.

Despite all the hate he gets, I agree with the original poster on this... 250 points is a lot but in this paradigm mephiston is doing exactly what be needs to: popping FMC and/or drawing bucketloads of fire away from the bikes... Definite pro-mephiston vote in this case from me.