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 TheCaptain wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Q: What points level?

What else are you bringing?

We have one player who cosistantly brings a WAAC vendetta list for all games and he is considered a dick for doing so - in fact at least one player refuses to play him.

Kinda funny that people make personal judgement on others based on what toys they choose to play with.

Not really a fair thing to do.

It's more to do with attitude though - just like that Space Marine player who codex-hops to no end simply to gain an advantage over their opponent every single game...
For example, we have one local Marine player who will take SW's vs my Daemons and spam Rune Priests to deny me my psychic supports, but against the CSM players, he'll suddenly swap to DA's for plasma-spam, then switch-up again to play Vulkan lists vs the Ork & 'Nid players, etc...)

If you're running an IG air cav list and say have a bunch of basic grunts/vets inside of those Valks/Vendettas, odds are you're not listhammering for pure advantage. (as you'll likely be squading-up those planes, making them less effective overall due to being confined by the squadron rules)
It's one thing for example to face 6 IG planes, but bundled across 3 squads. They can't run amock at will, unlike say 6 individual planes that are all free to target whatever they so please. It's even more fustrating when those planes are empty and the rest of the IG army is sitting back in a corner with their artillery hidden out of sight shelling your army to death.

Same thing with the Dakka Jets. 3 of them under 2k fit the likes of a Kult of Speed army and are perfectly fluffy. They're also made of wet toilet paper and can be boltered to death if needs be, while litterly anything twin-liked makes them cry.

In friendly games, you can also give your opponent a bit of a heads-up, especially if you know they haven't brought any AA.

I just really dig the idea of six orkish flying monstrosities raging around the air... maybe I'll just build them and hang them on my ceiling... I'd probably make less enemies that way haha.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Q: What points level?

What else are you bringing?

We have one player who cosistantly brings a WAAC vendetta list for all games and he is considered a dick for doing so - in fact at least one player refuses to play him.

Kinda funny that people make personal judgement on others based on what toys they choose to play with.

Not really a fair thing to do.

It's more to do with attitude though - just like that Space Marine player who codex-hops to no end simply to gain an advantage over their opponent every single game...
For example, we have one local Marine player who will take SW's vs my Daemons and spam Rune Priests to deny me my psychic supports, but against the CSM players, he'll suddenly swap to DA's for plasma-spam, then switch-up again to play Vulkan lists vs the Ork & 'Nid players, etc...)

But this is list tailoring, which is rude and unfair.

If my only 40k list happens to have 6 vendettas, and I use it against everyone equally, and am a genuinely nice person otherwise, I don't think that would make me a bad guy, nor WAAC.

It just makes my list cheesy.

Dammit I'd play against it for sure. With 3 dakkajets. Then I'd finish a fourth, fifth and sixth one with lots of bits. And would play again!

Sorry but you're using double force org. That isn't something respectable players do. So I won't play.

 TheCaptain wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Q: What points level?

What else are you bringing?

We have one player who cosistantly brings a WAAC vendetta list for all games and he is considered a dick for doing so - in fact at least one player refuses to play him.

Kinda funny that people make personal judgement on others based on what toys they choose to play with.

Not really a fair thing to do.

It's more to do with attitude though - just like that Space Marine player who codex-hops to no end simply to gain an advantage over their opponent every single game...
For example, we have one local Marine player who will take SW's vs my Daemons and spam Rune Priests to deny me my psychic supports, but against the CSM players, he'll suddenly swap to DA's for plasma-spam, then switch-up again to play Vulkan lists vs the Ork & 'Nid players, etc...)

But this is list tailoring, which is rude and unfair.

If my only 40k list happens to have 6 vendettas, and I use it against everyone equally, and am a genuinely nice person otherwise, I don't think that would make me a bad guy, nor WAAC.

It just makes my list cheesy.

Not so much list tailoring as outright army tailoring actually...
Every single marine codex for example is capable of plasma spaming, but DA's are notted for it and debatibly do it better than others. Just like every single marine army can bring flamers & meltas to tear apart Orks/'Nids, but Vulkan makes it even worse.

And I'd be willing to bet that if your air cav are bringing 4-6 Vendettas in a 2k or under game than they;
a) are transporting actual squads inside of them, be it Veterans, Com squads, Demo teams, whatever...
b) are squaded up since otherwise you're limited to just 3 planes.
c) might be using the FW Elysian list which has it's own glaring weaknesses despite being able to take lots of air power.

That's completely different than some donkeycave who simply spams single planes to be an obnoxious doornob and curbstomp the competition just to prove they can read a few netlists and have the funds to support such filth.


More than anything, IMHO it comes down to 'why are bringing oodles of planes?' If it's a well themed army and isn't being done purely to gain an unfair one-up on the rest of the local community, then I'd play against it.
Or if you just think planes are the coolest thing since sliced bread and just love playing with them while making air combat noises and playing Top Gun in the background, again, I'll play against it.

On the otherhand, if you've simply gone out and bought a Flying French Bakery and then allied in IG planes for even more added douchbagery, I'd rather just go let my cat chew on my toes for two hours instead of wasting my time with such shinanigans.

 juraigamer wrote:
Sorry but you're using double force org. That isn't something respectable players do. So I won't play.

Wat.

Double force org at 2000 points, is very important for horde-style armies, as each of their unit's is worth less points, meaning it's very hard to take what you need past 2000 points, with only one force org.

In my mind, respectable players are...well...respectable. They are friendly, and follow the rules.

People can field 6 flyers, and it's perfectly fine with me....

As long as we use 4th edition rules so I can bring an Eldar army with tons of Skimmer spam, because if we are being fair, I wanna have the game be a bunch of needless grief for you, too.

I don't mind the idea of facing 6 fliers in a 2000+ pt game.
I like the idea of Double force org; as it lets us use more of whatever our favourite models happen to be!

Seen 3 helldrakes at 1500... 6 helldrakes at 2k?.... I'm out of here!

I may play you, if you're a friend of mine and we mutually understand that you're running a high powered list. In pick up games though, if my opponent arrives with more than three flyers at 2k, I usually suggest that we find different opponents. That's not a dig on you, but a six flyer list (ANY six flyers from an actual GW and not FW publication) is just a bit more 'Ard than what I bring or care to face.

Dakkajets can inflict a lot of damage and you be sure the WAAC Ork players will take Weird Boyz for multiple Waaaghs. More than 3 dakkajets is a WAAC list.

WAAC

ORK player..

Does not compute ..


You realise that the waaagh from a Wierdboy is on a random table, right? You have an equal chance of teleporting yourself across the battlefield by accident or killing yourself and your unit with 'Eadbanger, even if you manage to get the power off in the first place.

Ork psychic powers are unreliable and unpredictable, There is decent odds that you won't even get a waaagh out of that wierdboy, and wierdboys aren't exactly cheap for how gak they are

I get the feeling you have never fought Orks and are just reading the tactics threads, or that the Ork players you do play have been lying about how the powers work

A Weird Boy can reroll on their psychic table... Take two and its almost a sure thing. Dakkajets didn't really need any benefit from the Waaagh... I'd have to say its broken.

A WARPHEAD can. Thats an expensive upgrade, and still doesn't guarantee you a waagh (though the odds are better)

A regular wierdboy cannot.

85 pts for the off chance of a WAAAGH seems a bit of a heavy tax.

Twice that would buy you a whole new dakkajet. Sure you would be fairly sure of getting an additional waagh during the game, but burning two HQ slots for it on the off chance seems a bit wasteful.

Bear in mind that it's highly unlikely that all six dakkajets will show up in the same turn (4 maybe) and so some will miss out on the zoom on, waaagh, dakka ploy.

It's also hightly unlikely that all 6 will still be alive by the time the weirdboyz get their act together for another go.

At two thousand plus points with double FOC it's not really all that many points.

It depends on the atmosphere of your group and how you go about it.

For instance, I don't mind loosing, but I do mind being routed.

and while I may build a list for a local meta, I don't build to counter in specific matches. My flyers consist of a vendetta with the 3 twinliked Lascannons and a valkyrie with multiple rocket pods...I almost always field both, and because their weapons are so different I've found that in every match one is basically useless and the other is as broken as a flyer is expected to be (the vendetta pawns marines but doesn't do well against orks, where as the multiple rocket pods have the oppsite problem). I think its often all how you go about it.

I think it also helps to have an explanation for it, like a sort of background to say why you are fielding 6 of them...so people don't just think you're a spike who loves to kick

 Dozer Blades wrote:
At two thousand plus points with double FOC it's not really all that many points.

Nearly 200 pts is almost 1/10 of your total pts. (170) plus 2 HQ slots that aren't all that useful.

Wierdboyz just aren't that great. Hilarious, but not that great.

I can't think of any list where i would pay 170 pts for the offchance of one unit getting one round of increased fire in a game, when i cold just take more firepower in the first place.

I70 Pts will buy you 10 lootas and almost pay for something to hide them behind.

It'll buy you an upgunned battlewagon, or almost three full batteries of Kannon.

If you really REALLY like wierdboyz, go for it, but it's hardly WAAC

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Dakkajets can inflict a lot of damage and you be sure the WAAC Ork players will take Weird Boyz for multiple Waaaghs. More than 3 dakkajets is a WAAC list.

WAAC is lying, cheating, rules lawyering, making rules up, stalling your turns, etc.

Win at ALL costs.

You're thinking of cheese. There's nothing WAAC about cheese.

Often the terms are used synomously.

1/10 the points of your army is not a lot in my opinion. Warheads are really good now. They deep strike a scoring unit onto an objective, manifest a S10 AP2 shot with 36" range... And call down multiple Waaaghs. If you don't think that's good maybe you should give them a try.

I have

If you think they're good, you must roll better than i do. I never get the power i want on the turn i want it, and burning 1/10 of my list on two frail, easily killed hq's that can sabotage my game as much as help it doesn't really appeal.

They can also accidentally bamf the unit they are with out of the place you want them, frazzle themselves or fail miserably to provide a waagh on the same turn your fliers need it.

YMMV of course If you like them, run them

Weirdboyz are stupid-funny, but mostly because they fail to do whatever you want them to every turn. Even with re-rolls, that's mostly insurance against eadbanger, because if you say roll frazzle and there is nothing in range, on the re roll you may get eadbanger. So, you can't count on your waaagh! To come when you want it, you probably won't teleport on the last turn for objective snatching, your shooting attacks may be out of range or lack good targets, and you can roll warpath when there is nothing to charge. That's all if you're lucky and don't just splatter yourself. And then you have to figure in psychic defenses and deny the witch rolls.

 juraigamer wrote:
Sorry but you're using double force org. That isn't something respectable players do. So I won't play.

Yeah, respectful players ignore rules they don't like.

Wait, what?

Where in the rulebook does it say only unrespectable players can take a double FOC?

 loota boy wrote:
Weirdboyz are stupid-funny, but mostly because they fail to do whatever you want them to every turn. Even with re-rolls, that's mostly insurance against eadbanger, because if you say roll frazzle and there is nothing in range, on the re roll you may get eadbanger. So, you can't count on your waaagh! To come when you want it, you probably won't teleport on the last turn for objective snatching, your shooting attacks may be out of range or lack good targets, and you can roll warpath when there is nothing to charge. That's all if you're lucky and don't just splatter yourself. And then you have to figure in psychic defenses and deny the witch rolls.

Two Warpheads are more than two times better than one for armies with lots of dakkajets.

I think it would be a tough fight.... Except for when the Tau swoop in and blow all of them and everything else up!

rigeld2 wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Sorry but you're using double force org. That isn't something respectable players do. So I won't play.

Yeah, respectful players ignore rules they don't like.

Wait, what?

Sorry, but you're whining about the game rules leaving you at a percieved but nonexistent disadvantage. That isn't something respectable players do. So I won't play either.

The game should be as fun for your opponent as it is for you. If fielding 6 fliers is going to make your opponent miserable, is it still a good idea?

Bragging rights is not a good enough reward for one player to walk away unhappy and feeling like they wasted and hour+ of their time.

 Mark1130 wrote:
The game should be as fun for your opponent as it is for you. If fielding 6 fliers is going to make your opponent miserable, is it still a good idea?

Why is it "going to make your opponent miserable"?

I would be happy to play an Ork list like this. I think it would be worth the challenge.

They hate AV13!

 Ascalam wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
At two thousand plus points with double FOC it's not really all that many points.

Nearly 200 pts is almost 1/10 of your total pts. (170) plus 2 HQ slots that aren't all that useful.

Wierdboyz just aren't that great. Hilarious, but not that great.

I can't think of any list where i would pay 170 pts for the offchance of one unit getting one round of increased fire in a game, when i cold just take more firepower in the first place.

I70 Pts will buy you 10 lootas and almost pay for something to hide them behind.

It'll buy you an upgunned battlewagon, or almost three full batteries of Kannon.

If you really REALLY like wierdboyz, go for it, but it's hardly WAAC

My Ork buddy tried a dual Warphead/3x Dakkajet list just for laughs against my Tzeentch Daemons...

Let's just say it ended horibly for him. He only got Waaaagh! once with 2 of his 3 jets on the table to take advantage of it. Then those jets went down the next turn in a hail of S6 & S5 Flickering Fire!
Av10 is super squishy, even on Flyers since absolutely *anything* twin-linked/prescienced is outright death. And IIRC, Dakkajets have only 3HP's meaning they're not that hard to simply glance to death...