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Yeah, I slept on it, and I found the end to be pretty disappointing. I still enjoyed the ride a lot, but... wow, it went poorly at the end there. If you beat the game I suspect I don't really need to say any more, and if you haven't, you probably don't want me to.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
I picked up this game partly because of what Manchu had to say about it a while back in the Damsels thread (and partly because a friend demanded I give my opinion on whether it was sexist or not).
I found the gameplay, such as it was, to be awful. There's the occasional creative moment, but nothing to write home about. The most satisfying part of it was headshotting stuff, and... yeah. There are way better games if that's what you're after. The combat was something to suffer through to see the next awesome story segment.
I'm not sure if I wanted something different out of the story than some others in the thread. I enjoyed the story and setting, and thought the ending was really cool.
Spoiler:
I saw something was up with the Luteces early in the story, and that was the plot thread that interested me the most and kept me playing. The Columbia stuff I didn't find all that interesting. Fun setting to explore at first, but tapped out somewhat quickly. Re: Songbird, I was delighted at how it turned out because I spent a large portion of the game dreading that there'd be some awful boss fight against him. I did expect a bit more info on what he was and why, but maybe it's in voxophones I never found.
That's hilarious because I spent the whole game dreading/eager for some scary/epic boss fight against Songbird. Eager because the character was so well designed and implemented; dreading because it's hard to imagine how one could fight him. Apparently Irrational also could not imagine it ...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: I picked up this game partly because of what Manchu had to say about it a while back in the Damsels thread
So what did you think about Elizabeth?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 18:48:20
That's hilarious because I spent the whole game dreading/eager for some scary/epic boss fight against Songbird. Eager because the character was so well designed and implemented; dreading because it's hard to imagine how one could fight him. Apparently Irrational also could not imagine it ...
Spoiler:
One of the things I disliked about the combat the most was the enemies that felt like big slabs of hit points. The handyman was one; the fire guys were another at some points. I really didn't like the execution of those at all and expected the Songbird to end up either much the same or some Dragon's Lair die-until-you-get-it-right sort of thing.
The death mechanic didn't help, either. I felt like it was frustrating in that dying repeatedly on the same part (usually because I decided to try out some weapon that turned out to be lousy) but that the lack of reloading robbed me of the satisfaction of beating the fight for real - it felt like graveyard zerging the encounter down, if you'll forgive the term.
HiveFleetPlastic wrote: I picked up this game partly because of what Manchu had to say about it a while back in the Damsels thread
So what did you think about Elizabeth?
That's a tricky question! On the one hand, I found her a really cool and interesting character. Some people have said they found her much more interesting than Booker, but I don't really agree with that - I wanted to know about his story, too. She clearly has agency of her own and that's strongly represented through the story. Despite that qualification, she fits the damsel in distress mold. I think this is another case where the trope is a problem without that being necessarily a fault in the stories - absent the cultural context Bioshock Infinite would be totally fine.
Actually, in terms of awesome female characters I found it to be quite wonderful.
So I just marathoned the hell out of this game. That I did a marathon speaks volumes for me because I haven't sat down for a solid block of gaming in this quantity since I was in high school (not counting the mass effect franchise) so some points.
It's good. Really freaking good. Like holy crap throw the designers some roses and stand for applause cause this was genuinely GOOD. The story and characters in particular made this game golden. The twins are awesome, Booker himself is interesting and Elizabeth is easily the best AI Support Character I've ever had forced on me, even if her item and cash spawn gimmick was almost too convenient at times.Not that I was complaining I really needed it here and there. Gorgeous environments, powerful score, I could give this game a tongue bath for a few hours on the above points alone. Especially Elizabeth's game play functions. Holy freaking HELL it only took how long to make an AI partner not suck? I really can't say enough for the story too.
Now let's talk gakkyness. Not that there's much to talk about, I pretty much agreed with a lot of what Total Biscuit was saying in his "WTF" review for Infinite. The combat and gunplay could still stand some more tweaking, the guns weren't anything new or exciting, even if I still very much enjoyed the hand cannon, because field artillery. In your hand. That's always awesome.
Spoiler time! Cause the rest of my issue lays in the realm of story, which I was just praising seconds ago you'll have noticed.
Spoiler:
Basically I felt a little let down by roughly the last couple seconds. Everything leading up to that was mind tripping AWESOME, the revelation of Elizabeth as actually being Anna, where the mark on Booker's hand came from, the infinite lighthouses of infinite worlds, times, outcomes etc. Not something I'd like to confront with ANY form of inebriation because I'm still having issues fully wrapping my mind around it. I still fell like opportunities were missed to dig into more of what made Booker the damaged individual who wanted to be reborn in baptism. Some more direct dialogue between Elizabeth and Booker on the nature of the revelation that he is in fact her father wouldn't have been amiss imho. Other then those complaints which I admit are completely stylistic, and not necessary to the arc, lead us to the inevitable drowning. That's the real weak spot. I don't know what it's missing or why, but it just felt... disappointing, sub par given all that had come before it.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Well, I took my time with Bioshock Infinite. I loved the first Bioshock, and when I mean love well, I completed in 2 days I think. This one, well, I took my time since I'm a "working man" now and "The Hobby" also ate up some free time but I just finished it and here's what I have to say about the end:
Spoiler:
Honestly, my jaw hit the desk when I returned to Rapture. I was in AWE with that small twist of a cameo, in AWE with the lighthouse explanation, completely in AWE with Anna's / Elizabeth's plot twist and then when I thought this roller-coaster of emotions couldn't get any better, BAM, Booker is Comstock, smother him ... I honestly can say I didn't feel a "kick in the nuts plot twist" like that ever since Bioshock.
Now, about the game: The twins are a big reason I loved it. Overall, they managed to create such amazing characters. Elizabeth is a NPC that helps, doesn't get in the way, is adorable (those beautiful blue eyes ) and the AI never fraked up. I can only clap to probably the best AI companion I had in a very long time. The city was gorgeous, really gorgeous filled with wonderful details, the scenarios were varied, I didn't feel like I was going through the same endless corridors hundreds of times and if that wasn't enough that "Sky Hook" mechanic was pure fun. My only complain about that one was that I couldn't rain death with vigors while using it.
The Bad: The combat. Now, don't get me wrong, I liked the combat, I liked the Vigors, but it was pretty much always the same generic humans, every single time and sometimes they would just keep comming and comming and comming. And the difficukty between them was unbelivable. The normal humans would go down just like that, the Patriots took some extra work but everytime an Handyman showed up, oh yeah, I would die, sometimes more than once in the same combat. In Bioshock 1 we had some extra variety of splices, droids and big daddies.
Edit: Oh, and out of curiosity. Who else found the guitar scene with Elizabeth singing very WTF? I enjoyed it the same, she looked like a Disney princess but the moment was so very WTF?
Overall, one of my best gaming experiences.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/15 20:40:03
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
I admit, I also didn't get the coin thing, but now that we finished the game, we should understand the other scenes with the twins. Jade Empire was also one of these type of games. After the OMFGWTBBQ plot twist and end, if you play it again, you start detecting suble hints about the potencial plot-twist.
Anyway, about your paradox theory, I don't think there is one. Spoony explains it pretty well: We officially killed the option of becoming Comstock. That option no longer exists, never did, never will. Comstock is no longer a valid option. That means there won't be a Comstock willing to buy Elizabeth out of Booker. That means there won't, was, or is a Comstock that decided to use SCIENCE! to go back in time and buy his daughter.
This pretty much means there's a whole new future that wasn't there before because the Comstock option is / was / will no longer valid.
P.S: This was a very interesting review, my biggest complain about Spoony when he's reviewing a game is how he just can't let go the fact it's a game. He just tries to rationalize everything. I think that's a reason he didn't enjoy the sky-hook thing but he was spot on with the violence. I was a bit shocked the first time the sky-hook pretty much splits the cop's head in two because the game was just so...pretty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/15 22:46:38
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
Edit: Oh, and out of curiosity. Who else found the guitar scene with Elizabeth singing very WTF? I enjoyed it the same, she looked like a Disney princess but the moment was so very WTF?
It seems like the game went halo-2 during production, where they wanted to add a million times everything and had to scale back, the non-meaning choices and a few things like the guitar that seem to come from nowhere point towards this.
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But it was Elizabeth from Comstock's reality that erased all those realities. If there is now no-one to erase those realities, than who erases them?
Spoiler:
Because the Elizabeth in the future never existed in the first place, because all the Comstocks died before that Elizabeth was created... yep, nice one, it's a paradox alright
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
Had to share this violin cover of Elizabeth's theme and "May the Circle Be Unbroken" with you all
Ooohh, that's so awesome, thanks
The "Morrowind/Skyrim Theme" with her and Lara is my favorite cover. Such talent.
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
Why is the Booker Dewitt that you play the Nexus? If there a million different decisions on a million different reallities, it doesn't matter!
It would be more logical to stop Booker from doing the atrocities he commited in His world from becoming the Booker or Comstock in that world, but in another reality he would still become the damaged one, the ending just doesn't make sense (to me).
Manchu wrote: The ending was terrible. The game began by dealing with interesting ideas and ended with the stuff of weed-fueled college debates.
Yeah... sums up my opinion perfectly. The game was still a wonderful piece of art. We just need to forget that the last 15 minutes ever happened, and it could very well be a game of the decade.
wow.... just finished the game.....i wish i had stopped and made up my own ending
Kilkrazy wrote: We moderators often make unwise decisions on Friday afternoons.
kestril wrote: Page 1: New guard topic
Page 2: FW debate
Page 3: Ailaros and Peregrine fight. TO THE DEATH
I swear I think those two have a hate-crush on each other sometimes.
~4100
~1660
