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Recently I have come to find dreadnoughts, specifically combat oriented ones particularly lackluster, with the edition of hull points (and probably the fact that I mainly play against Crons and DE) I have just been finding them very fragile and not that powerful.

With there WS4 meaning 4s to hit on most units that i come up against and only 3A on the charge, they just dont seem to put out anywhere near enough damage as they really should. They just end up getting tarpitted and if theres any sort of haywire, gauss or monstrous creatures, Melta/MB, warscythes around then that 2D6 pen or glances just wipes it out.

I play DA and there for only directly have access to normal dreads and venerable ones, although I have tried Ironclads and even Bray'arth ashmantle (who is good, but is he really worth his points?).
Is there any load out or tactics that can make these guys viable because if so I would really like to know because I love them and I wanna play them almost as much as my Interrogator-chaplain, but in much the same way they just dont seem worth it!

They don't do enough damage to justify really being fielded anymore. Previously they could at least hold units up, however, they die pretty easily to krak grenades so you don't even need melta. If they DO have melta then you're hit on a 4+ (instead of a 6+) and die a horrible death.

granted you play DA, but i think Ironclads are still useful. They get 4 attacks on the charge and are immune to Krak grenades.

i dont hav any experience with them, but Blood Angel blenderdreads can still do alot of hurt, also.

For me, dreadnaughts are just a tar pit in CC. Granted I run Rifle dreads and they get assaulted far to often.

I'd argue that BA Furiosos are the only Combat Dreads worth bringing. The mix of AV 13 and either blenderfists, psychic powers, or 3 templates of shooting mean they can't be safely ignored.

Ironclads and normal pfist/heavy weapon dreads just don't have enough attacks to matter.

dreads are situationally usefull in combat,

but but more usefull as ranged,

I always play with two psyflemen dreads, may get a 3rd

if I was playing a diff codex I would likely have ranged there as well,

simply put, dreads do more damaged from range,

and the only troops you can tarpit with them now, you dont really need the DCCW anymore for, so s5 or less troops with no krak/melta/ect get tarpitted just as easily by my ranged "only" dread while still letting me do some decent ranged damage

the only way I see CCW oriented dreads being usefulll is coming out of a lucious drop pod or a storm raven,

otherwise in situations where tehy rock, peopel will gun em down before they get into combat.

Ok so if i really want to run an effective combat dread then its going to have to be a Furioso then?

Ok so if im going to have to pay the blood angel ally tax to get it, what HQ and trop would you suggest I take?

Also is there still another option? Ive been thinking and i really just want a dread that I can bring in with my Deathwing, that will synergize nicely.

Can a shooty dread do this, personally i've never had much luck with the AC version (how the AC on a dread isn't twinlinked or more powerful that one a terminator carries, despite being double the size I have no idea, but thats another matter). Are any other shooty options viable for droppods?

Even then it's only worth bringing them if you can get them a drop pod. I think 3 dreads would be difficult to deal with, but that's not an insignificant amount if points to spend on non-scoring, non-denial units.

Riflemen dreads are probably the only option 2 TL auto cannons.

Walkers of all types still have a roll in a TAC list. Dreads are the most common type of walker you see, but other races walkers (such as a Triarch Stalker) still serve a purpose to blunt certain types of units.

Walkers are great at holding up fast moving assault units, which with the last two codex releases, are starting to be seen again. A regular dread can hold up a rampaging unit of Spawn or even blunt the stampede of Daemonettes/hounds.

Just Monday my 5 Necron Wraiths were held up for 4 combat turns by a marine Dreadnought. The 6's just didn't come up to get rid of it fast enough.

Any shooting you get out of the dread should be gravy. It doesn't need to be spectacular every game, just in enough games to help you out against certain units.

In other words, they are just as viable now as they've ever been. It depends on the list and the player. Asking if they are usable without some sense of what they'd be used as is useless.

I run two, if I can, in my Dark Angels list, either both as firebases (lascannon/missile launchers) or a firebase and a combat bulldozer (assault cannon/power fist/flamer) leadk g a pack of terminators.

AV13 walkers, are great in combat against most things. AV12, get glanced too easilly sadly by grenades.

However, there are a few ones that, in my eyes, shine still

1. Furioso (Or death company furioso), won't work against terminators, but will more than make their points back if you can get them into a unit of non-terminators. Great for blending guardsmen and marines, ork boy's, pretty much anything except terminators really.

2. Soulgrinder. AV13, helps. It's nowhere near as good in combat as the furioso, but it's a good backup for when something get's a bit too close for comfort for shooting.

Surely you just need to be more discerning on what you send them in to assault? Rather than running them at large units or dedicated CC troops, use them to hunt down low model, high value units such as support vehicles or devastators.

 Scrollax wrote:
Ok so if i really want to run an effective combat dread then its going to have to be a Furioso then?

Ok so if im going to have to pay the blood angel ally tax to get it, what HQ and trop would you suggest I take?

Also is there still another option? Ive been thinking and i really just want a dread that I can bring in with my Deathwing, that will synergize nicely.

Can a shooty dread do this, personally i've never had much luck with the AC version (how the AC on a dread isn't twinlinked or more powerful that one a terminator carries, despite being double the size I have no idea, but thats another matter). Are any other shooty options viable for droppods?

I'm a filthy dirty dread-head. This is my BA Dreadsplash:

Reclusiarch (or BA libby)
5 Death Company (Pick up a weapon or two. I use a power axe.)
Furioso Blendertron
DC Blendertron
TLAC Dread

About 500 points of Battle Brick goodness.

More situational but multimelta/dccw dres with flamers drop podded. You either drop pod in and kill an important vehicle or drop in and flame something in cover that you don't like. Works great for wiping out an aegis defense line unit or popping a land raider to make combat termites walk

 Kirasu wrote:
They don't do enough damage to justify really being fielded anymore. Previously they could at least hold units up, however, they die pretty easily to krak grenades so you don't even need melta. If they DO have melta then you're hit on a 4+ (instead of a 6+) and die a horrible death.

Pretty much this. Prior to this edition, your average Dreadnought was good for tying up a unit... but wiping one out? With only 2-3 attacks, that almost never happened for me, even if I didn't get blown up beforehand. In 6th most units have frag grenades, so an >AV12 walker is too vulnerable to tarpit a unit. If you want a combat walker, you're going to need AV13 and/or 4+ attacks.

Why would frag grenades be a problem for anything over av10 on a walker? Did you mean krak?

I find dreads are best in CC with support. I always keep a tac squad to hangout with my dreads. I play DA and the Venerable upgrade is cheap and worth it.

The enemy will either charge the dread or the squad. The neglected unit gets to charge them. Unless it's a scary CC unit in question, they don't get tarpitted.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

The enemy will either charge the dread or the squad.

Or charge neither and shoot one. I think you'll find the third option is far more likely.

 Flinty wrote:
Why would frag grenades be a problem for anything over av10 on a walker? Did you mean krak?

Errr, yes.

I can vouch for Ironclad Dreads.

I have been using on with DCCW+HF/SH+MG along with assault launchers out of a normal pod. The only way it goes down easily is if you are careless about giving an enemy a rear armor shot, or if I drop it onto something with melta weapons. It is surprisingly easy to avoid those two things if you are careful.

It is very easy to drop the pod and position the Dread in a way to give him extremely high odds of survival. Especially if you use him to drop on a weaker flank, against something that has no hope of killing him, as I often do.

A single melta gun isn't the greatest, but it's a 2/3 chance to hit and almost guaranteed pen with the melta rule. I frequently kill things on turn one with the melta gun, and if you are shooting infantry, it is nice to try and dig out a heavy/special weapon or character with flamer wounds and save the low AP ID wound for the model you want dead. The best performance was I had mine one shot a landraider on turn one.

The flamer is an auto-take, because it gives you flexibility and legitimate anti infantry.

Assault launchers are completely worth it for me, that +1 to cover from shooters within 8" has saved me more than once.

The normal pod isn't as bad as some would have you believe. My Ironclad has only failed to make it to combat in two games. Once because I dropped him right next to 5 melta gun wielding bikers (totally moronic move on my part), and the other time because my enemy (Tau) literally shot 80% of his army at the Dread (buying my other units/armor valuable time). Worst case the dread is an AV13 wrench you chuck directly into your enemies gears.

I wouldn't put much faith in the use of AV12 Dreads kitted for combat, the lesser armor and fewer attacks really make them a poor choice.

TL : DR - AV12 Dreads should be shooting. AV13 Dreads are the only ones that should be intentionally getting close to the enemy.

Last weekend I played someone who brought 2 hellbrutes with dual PFs. I was actually rather impressed with how they performed given their points cost. A stock dual PF hellbrute is 100 points.

One of them exploded when it assaulted my GUO. The other killed 10 PMs by itself over the course of a few rounds.

If you have a drop pod somewhere else in your list a late game dreadnought in a drop pod can work wonders with it's flamer. *thumbs up*

I think the question combat dreadnought stil viable is an odd question. There are many different dreadnoughts after all. A blood tallon dreadnought is a nightmare. Any Av 13 dreadnoughts are good in cc. But the dreadnought is more of an all around units. Now with the adition of the flamer over watch it is even less likly that they will get charged meaning you can pick your target. Also the other non SM walkers are a different case all together.

If we go back to the drop pod dread, this is one that will work multiple roles. It is not a dedicated cc unit.

A blood tallon dreadnought is a nightmare.

This. Those DC dreads with fleet and rage and blood talon's are no joke in 6th edition. Drop pod them in and have an upper limit 18" assault range with a whole lot of death on the charge (the turn after they deploy of course).

I think outside of the real dedicated beasts though CC should be reserved for a back option on a hybrid dread. Something that's comfortable getting in close with its Melta and Templates knowing it will be able to handle itself if anything wants to tangle with it in CC.

I also belive the forge world blood angels dread can get the tallons as well?

Librarian dreads with wings are nasty and I hate them. My buddy used to run one and after one game, he'd use it to draw all my anti-tank fire because I wanted it gone.

Actually so far I have found the Mix n Match style dread (ranged main gun + DCCW) has been the real winner this edition.

It's not the best at either roll, but for the points you have 1+ high strength shots coming in every turn, and an area denial unit with that DCCW.

This could be speaking more from a Nid/Ork perspective, but I hate having one of those stupid things in the enemy backfield. It's not a big enough shooting threat that I want to target it with my long range anti tank, but I also don't want to get caught in CC by it either.

They do very well, less melta exists so they last far longer.

And don't listen to the "oh noes grenades" crowd. A normal dread fighting a 10 man tactical squad will last at the very least 3 rounds on average, and you will be killing tacticals left and right.

CC dreads on foot work too, my hellbrutes with fist and scourge are quite under-estimated. Nothing like a dread that lowers enemy WS!

I'm not sure if you guys count them but maulerfiends are good and have a strong argument to be in a competative CSM army. They are really fast (move through cover 12" move and fleet) so they usually only have to absorb 1 round of shooting. They walk around with a 5++ and they can regenerate lost HP. They don't put out a huge amount of Killyness but they Can down tough low save models and if you Give them tendrals they are awesome to send into combat with otherunits so allow your guys to strike first.

I run DA, usually with one Dread AC/HF. He gets parked, preferably in trees, near my Dev squad. He plinks away until something drops in or gets close to my Devs. Then he ties them up for a turn or two, giving my Devs more shots down range. 125ish pts is worth his function imo.

Generally, AV13 dreads are the ones still usable. So Ironclads, Furiosos, and Soulgrinders. Maulerfiends also get consideration because they're pretty cheap, extremely fast, they have an invul save, and they can regen HP.

I wish Walkers could still at least contest objectives, though. If they had let them do that, as a special rule different from other vehicles, I think you'd see them much more than you do now.