Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have nothing to back this up just pure speculation. could it be that some of the painters in the EM team have moved on to better things in their lives. that or GW no longer has a need (in their minds that is)for the EM Team. since everyone is now a GD standard painter. the EM Team only is "so" good. it'd be cheaper to not have to pay "professional painters". just my 2 cents.

What advertisement?

That's one of the images posted for the pack of Farsight shoulder pads from GW. This is the other, which looks nearly as rough (if you look, it's all one shoulder pad that's been photoshopped as several, and the white isn't even painted very clearly or to good opacity over the black:

 Ouze wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I have the opposite experience with my Nuln Oil. It's vastly lighter than the previous black washes and won't tint colors even with several coats.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm suggesting maybe there's some inconsistency in the product.

Fair enough. I got some right after it was released - perhaps they tweaked the recipe and you have a newer one (?), or, as you say, it's inconsistent. If they did indeed change it up, I may try a second bottle. I picked up some AP dark and that works OK for now.

Just to throw this out there:

I had the same problem with Badab Black as well.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

What advertisement?

That's one of the images posted for the pack of Farsight shoulder pads from GW. This is the other, which looks nearly as rough (if you look, it's all one shoulder pad that's been photoshopped as several, and the white isn't even painted very clearly or to good opacity over the black:

Looks to me like fairly standard GW painting to me. sure there was a time when there was a better standard. but not by much. Note: photoshopped items reduce man-paint hours for a "splash release" which is now known as "miniature Wave's" coupled with GW's policy of "lets hide our new stuff until a day before release then paint paint paint", much like at college when cramming for an exam, (because you were busy @ steves friday night bash example only). by photoshopping something they only have to paint several models ie whatever is in the new boxed sets only 1 time and then cut and paste. I would think GW is not alone in this practice. they are certainly more noticeable. pay penuts get monkey's as they say, meaning go on the cheap side and be prepared for a less than expected quality of service. GW HQ might not have heard. who knows but good call

I agree with yakface and find that the new system DOES make it easier to turn out tabletop grade models quickly. Are they the best paint jobs ever? No, but it makes it easy for someone inexperienced to grab a few pots that are premixed and ready to go. I honestly love some of the new paint types, though. The dry paints are awesome for quick and easy drybrushing.

Looks to me like fairly standard GW painting to me. sure there was a time when there was a better standard. but not by much. Note: photoshopped items reduce man-paint hours for a "splash release" which is now known as "miniature Wave's" coupled with GW's policy of "lets hide our new stuff until a day before release then paint paint paint

Oh, the photoshop was just a comment- I understand the utility of cut and paste as opposedto paint up 12 shoulder pads for a single photo!

But maybe they should have tried to clean up the messy white on the figure pic by repainting some of the black, and in the ones of the pads, make sure it actually covers completely over the black basecoat (especially when there is a line of paints produced by the same company that is supposed to do just that).

Call me spoiled, but this is what I am used to seeing as a "Eavy Metal quality miniature:

GW has two sets of painters, the 'Eavy metal team (who focus mainly on single characters and stuff for box art) and another team for painting whole armies, I'd bet my hat the red fire warrior was painted by the latter.

My son (11) painted his first minis this week (catachan command squad). He did pretty well with the modelling side of things and enjoyed posing the models but he became pretty despondant over the painting becuase his didn't look like the ones on the box (never mind that I as a vet of 30 years of wargaming couldn't paint them to standard on the box either).

GW bussiness model is all about getting constant newbies, like my son, into the hobby. To many 'Evy metal standard paint jobs is off putting to newbies. Simple effective paint (dare I say a bit naff) jobs are good for those starting out to help manage expectations.

There pushing a lot out very quickly. Its likely the painters do not have the luxery of time.

Losteriksson wrote:
GW bussiness model is all about getting constant newbies, like my son, into the hobby. To many 'Evy metal standard paint jobs is off putting to newbies. Simple effective paint (dare I say a bit naff) jobs are good for those starting out to help manage expectations.

White Dwarf is starting to show a lot of studio armies, which vary a lot in quality. For example, Hive Fleet Euminedes in the latest is a very simple scheme when you break it down.



In fact, Phil Kellys is the simplest I've seen, and looks decent on the table. Prime black. Paint on brown rorschach markings on the carapace. Paint eyes and teeth. High gloss varnish, finished. The gloss varnish gives a nice shiny, slimy look and gives the false impression that the black has had more work tham simply being primed black.

The red tau, the shoulderpads and the weapons are indeed painted by the hobby team and not Eavy Metal.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's like some of those above have said,

they're painting to a standard that doesn't intimidate new gamers by being too good

(like the frankly rubbish paint jobs seen on the leaflets that came with some of the old paint sets, one with 5 free elf spearmen minis comes to mind)

they also seem to want to photograph everything on wildly inapropriate backgrounds (or even worse photoshop them in badly)

and forge world seem to be more and more inclined to chipping/weathering as done by modern armour/aircraft painters (which can look drab/poor if not looked at closely)

This is what I was going to say. I imagine they may be trying a more "newbie" friendly approach. I know looking at some of their earlier work, I was astounded and though no way will I ever get to that level of painting.

Perhaps there is a level of false advertisement purchasing bitz and models that you cannot paint to the level displayed originally? I don't know.

I have the issue sitting on my night stand, just haven't gotten around to checking it out yet. From the from cover work though it looked ok to me?

They painted Cypher wrong...

 Satan's Little Helper wrote:
They painted Cypher wrong...

Could you go into a bit more detail please?

IIRC the fallen are either black or green (it's up to the painter, since it was on an official capacity then it wasn't painted wrongly)

Several of the better EM guys have moved to other departments or left the company. And besides the fact that the EM standard is still stuck in the 90's with all the line highlights and bright bold colours. Not to say that what they do is bad, but compared to what you see in the euro GD it's pretty bog standard. I've used some of the new paints and have to say that i have had no problems with them, even the shades are good if you get the idea of using them as an all over wash out of your head. The new paint guides are very useful to newbie painters, if you have a problem with them, chances are you won't need a guide as you know what you are doing, Although, the actual colours used is handy to have, just apply you're own technique with them. And the truth of the matter is that the GW staffers are subject to the whims of managment the same as you or i, they more likely than not feel embarrased about what the higher ups are doing to the hobby they love as much as we do. edited for spelling

I don't know about other newbies out there, but I for one have this problem with well painted models: When I see one of those "old school"-models that are painted with standards well over my own, I just feel "gak you, im gonna paint like that one day!" It is inspirational and motivates me with the dream of getting that kind of pieces of high art coming out from my hands. Maybe the 12 year olds this day are different from when I was 12 and buying my first minis and WDs... But yeah, those minis on the newest WDs are awfull. Its not inspirational at all, just same basic tutorials all over the place. I have some old WDs on my hands with those "master class"-articles mentioned here earlier, those are awesome. You need to learn the basic stuff pretty much once, after that you either continue to the master class-direction or are stuck with the basic tabletop-stuff. And tt-quality is fine if you are not inclined to spend countless of hours painting every spearman in your goblin army, its always better than horde of gray plastic. But it would be nice to have some higher standard tutorials on hand for people like me who have the will to try and learn to be better than average painters.

Of course the problem in that is that now that I have found my zen in painting, not gaming, im bying less figures as it takes lots longer per mini to finish, so less revenue for the big bad GW What if that is the bottom line in lower quality paintjobs in advertising? Giving new players/hobbyists lower "max-skill" on first glance so they get armies ready faster and buy more plastic?

Well, there always is the internet for me. Youtube, dakka and all other places are full of nice, easy to follow and very educating painting tutorials. No need for me to buy those over-priced citadel painting guides.

On Nuln Oil-issue, my pot is awfull, it just tints whole damn area totally black and very much lacks in the flowing effect it should have. Needs loads of water and glaze/thinnin medium to make it usable I want pot of that better stuff if it is around!

 Willi4mis wrote:
On Nuln Oil-issue, my pot is awfull, it just tints whole damn area totally black and very much lacks in the flowing effect it should have. Needs loads of water and glaze/thinnin medium to make it usable I want pot of that better stuff if it is around!

Army Painter Dark Tone and Strong Tone do a far better job than the GW versions.

 jonolikespie wrote:


Yep, if the heavy metal team is still a thing they are either on an insane schedule and have no time to work well or they have been replaced with new guys.

what an horrendous paintjob

Even I wouldn't be satisfied with a result like this.

I'm no painting master, but I do try to take a little pride in my minis. For a 'pro' paint job, that tau is shocking. I reckon I could maybe surpass that, and I consider myself mediocre at best.

For me, if their new strategy is indeed that, and not a result of shifting standards/values*, it's working.

I saw that Tau on the website at the same time as I was trying to decide on what scheme to use on my own army, after seeing that miniature (painted to what I would consider tabletop standard, since the major issues with it are only noticeable close up) decided to go with the same scheme, since I knew I could paint better than that, and reasonably quickly too. This would mean I could have an army painted to a standard agreeable to me reasonably quickly.

On the other hand, I look at that Eldar model and all it does is highlight how I will never be able to paint at that level. Like it or not, the ability to paint is at least partially influenced by raw talent, and only those with both raw talent and a -heap- of practice will be able to reach that level of detail. I can obviously practice for as long as I want, but as I didn't start with much raw talent, seeing models painted to that standard does nothing but dishearten me.

* This is what I think is really happening: painting standards are as high/low as they've always been, it's just that as we've all grown up (and I would suggest the majority of members on here are late teens or older). Basically, when we first started we were young and inexperienced, we couldn't tell the difference between a truly excellent miniature (the Eldar one above) and one that is simply neatly painted (the Deathwing Knight shown earlier)

However, as we've all gotten older and better at painting, we also gained the ability to tell the difference between a good paint job and a fantastic one.

In any case, if they have been "dumbing down" the paint schemes, I can see why, as I've always hated how I was constantly reminded how much of an average painter I was whenever I looked at a display box.

I don't think the standard has changed at all, some of the recent daemon models were stunningly painted, as were the Ravenwing someone already posted.

 yakface wrote:


And as for the GW Deathwing scheme that really stood out to me, this is it:

Spoiler:

The bone color is just generally completely flat with only a tiny bit of highlighting and shading on it. This is quite different from older versions of the Deathwing they used to do that had a much wider palette of shading.

I dunno, it doesn't look that different compared to older DW models, or even how old metal Deathwing terminators were painted. This is of course much different from what they showed in Paint splatter, or their previous Deathwing painting guide.

On topic, I haven't seen any drop in how most of their showcase miniatures are painted, looks to me as good or better than ever. It's just that sometimes they seem content to show their "B team" efforts, and particularly some of the Bitz seem to be painted by that team, presumably their top guys being too busy with high-end stuff? Aforementioned Farsight enclave shoulderpad being primo example.

If you look at newest White Dwarf, it shows two separate Farsight models. One in the back cover with black Tau sept symbol in the chest is clearly painted closer to "hobby" standards, this model is also on Page 17. In Page 16 they have another Farsight which is much cleaner work, this one is also featured in the website.

I would prefer it if they stuck with eavy metal team. I buy their books for inspiration on painting styles. It's one thing if your doing a how to for beginners but not on the box art or front and center on the website. Put your best foot forward and all that.

Old fart warning incoming:

I chock this up to the usual stupidity in this day and age. We can't tell little Johnny no or that their are winners and losers. We can't tell him if he wants to be a winner (pro painter). Then it takes practice and dedication and even then somebody with the raw talent will more than likely still be better. I get so irritated with these kids and their parents. It's not doing these kids any favors. When they get older and you try explaning to them, yes you actually have to work and no I don't owe you anything they look at you like a deer in the headlights. I had a girl show up looking for work in sweat pants and a tank top with boobs hanging halfway out. Who shows up to a job interview in sweat pants?

 wowsmash wrote:
I had a girl show up looking for work in sweat pants and a tank top with boobs hanging halfway out. Who shows up to a job interview in sweat pants?

Depends on the job - was it for Hooters?

 wowsmash wrote:
I would prefer it if they stuck with eavy metal team. I buy their books for inspiration on painting styles. It's one thing if your doing a how to for beginners but not on the box art or front and center on the website. Put your best foot forward and all that.

This.
I want to look inside the codex for inspiration and see some amazing paintjobs. They can keep the educational part for WD and whoever is willing to spend money on that $%@#$ nowadays magazine. As with everything you can either educate the people involved so they can keep getting better and better or you can lower the goal they aim for. Right now GW is doing the second cause it is much easier than the first.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 progreen10 wrote:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440277a&prodId=prod1710018a

nuff said

Couldn't they have taken the time to straighten out wonky parts like the lightning claws? Who models that and feels happy it's a good effort?

Omg I did not even notice this. BTW the new WD don't feature 'eavy metal work. It is MOSTLY the editors and people that write the articles work ESP the paint splatter articles. There is a lot of their personal armies shown as well. I would say that the new released models are painted professionally though.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
For me, if their new strategy is indeed that, and not a result of shifting standards/values*, it's working.

I saw that Tau on the website at the same time as I was trying to decide on what scheme to use on my own army, after seeing that miniature (painted to what I would consider tabletop standard, since the major issues with it are only noticeable close up) decided to go with the same scheme, since I knew I could paint better than that, and reasonably quickly too. This would mean I could have an army painted to a standard agreeable to me reasonably quickly.

On the other hand, I look at that Eldar model and all it does is highlight how I will never be able to paint at that level. Like it or not, the ability to paint is at least partially influenced by raw talent, and only those with both raw talent and a -heap- of practice will be able to reach that level of detail. I can obviously practice for as long as I want, but as I didn't start with much raw talent, seeing models painted to that standard does nothing but dishearten me.

* This is what I think is really happening: painting standards are as high/low as they've always been, it's just that as we've all grown up (and I would suggest the majority of members on here are late teens or older). Basically, when we first started we were young and inexperienced, we couldn't tell the difference between a truly excellent miniature (the Eldar one above) and one that is simply neatly painted (the Deathwing Knight shown earlier)

However, as we've all gotten older and better at painting, we also gained the ability to tell the difference between a good paint job and a fantastic one.

In any case, if they have been "dumbing down" the paint schemes, I can see why, as I've always hated how I was constantly reminded how much of an average painter I was whenever I looked at a display box.

This post makes me sad. I absolutely believe the reverse is true- once you have the fine motor control (or patience) good enough to paint neatly, everything else becomes possible- for pretty much every technique there is a dirty trick to do it easier...

Yeah, it makes me sad too, after about 4 years of experience in this hobby I hit a sort of plateau with painting, and haven't exceeded it in the 8 years since.

Call me a newb or whatever, but before they started doing the paint guides, painting was a complete turn off for me. Cause I'd always get fed up of it not looking anything like photos on the packet.
I've always preferred the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method. Now that they've offered a little albeit pricey and simple guidance, I find it far more enjoyable and will happily spend hours painting. Ok it's not quite perfect yet I'll admit, but then who is. If anything, GW are trying to inspire you to do it better than their average paint job. I actually think some of the WD paint jobs are pretty awesome. The lady they have for their IT stuff there did a pretty awesome set of Reaver jetbikes.

I don't think we're contesting beginners painting guide system. We're protesting using it in the box art, rulebook and codex's. save the simple painted pics for the how to paint books/DVDs and keep the eavy metal team stuff on everything else.