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Just would like to see how people generally equip and run their basic CSM units. Are they just objective holders, do you ever give them marks/icons, do you run them as 5, 10, or even 20 strong, etc.. From my experience you can often get more milage out of the basic CSM compared to the cult Marines simply due to how cheap and adaptable they are. For example, currently I run my CSM in squads of Ten with a meltagun and flamer, power sword on the champion, and VotLW. Cheap, and capable of dealing with vehicles and infantry.

I run 10 CSMs with dual specials and a meltabomb.
For flamer or melta squads, I give them a rhino.
For plasma squads, they're walking.

If I have leftover points, I do consider power weapons for rhino squads.

I down grade them to Cultist wearing paper mache Power Armor costumes.

bad joke aside, I have not been having any good luck with them as they get slain by all the anti Plague Marine + Epidemus builds. So many S10 and Ap3!

I've gotten to the point where I do not even bother to give them any upgrades and just get 10 men into a rhino and drive them to an objective and hope to disembark turn 5.

Anyone used the the Fabius Bile unit? Actually used it?

I love giving them mark of nurgle for the extra toughness, especially if they're going for an objective. Might tack a heavy bolter on the squad too so that they can setup and defend.

I run two 7 man MoN squads, PF on the champs, one melta or one plasma in the squad. Throw the melta squad in a rhino and leave the plasma squad to man the quadgun.

Munga wrote:
I love giving them mark of nurgle for the extra toughness, especially if they're going for an objective. Might tack a heavy bolter on the squad too so that they can setup and defend.

I'm starting to believe MoN basic marines (and maybe all marked basic marines in general, except for MoT of course) are superior to Plague Marines simply because of how many more CSM you can bring and equip.

People often use Khorne marines instead of berserkers and that has been successful.

10-men, no marks, VotLW (I play against a lot of Space Marines), 2x Special weapons, matching combi-weapon, rhino.

I down grade them to Cultist wearing paper mache Power Armor costumes.

Pretty much this. Chaos Space Marines are just not worth the investment. While they start out "cheap-ish", anything of note makes them too expensive quickly.

 Jancoran wrote:
Anyone used the the Fabius Bile unit? Actually used it?

he is tons of fun. 20 MoN or MoS str5 fearless marines are scary.

 kronk wrote:
10-men, no marks, VotLW (I play against a lot of Space Marines), 2x Special weapons, matching combi-weapon, rhino.

How useful are you finding that combi weapon?

i have alot of succes with 2 10 mans, 1 with like a lascannon and bolters, sarg with combie flamer maybe a claw, seconed with CCW and melta/plasma or flamer, sarg with claw or fist. i give both VOLW unless i have some one babysitting them.

one babysits the Agies line i useally run and operate the iqucrus or quad gun or comm site. the other is a counter charge unit thats cheap and effective. sometimes the counter charge unite might get IoV but i useally fight BA and DA so i like vets. they are a great core of an army and let me use the rest of my army to do other things while they hold down the fort if you will. thou the CCW unit dose frequnitly get joined bye kharn and act as an assult unit.


i love basic marines i just dont expect much of them, and i avoid beserkers alot as i found MoK marines to do about as well for a good bit less(IMO) and i love plauge marines but i dont use many so if i know i am gonna be up agensst alot of shoots i will invest MoN on regular marines that are ment to hold things. but i jsut go Plague if i need a body guard

hope this helps
and 1 cultist squad of 20

The issue that I've had with regular chaos marines is that they cost too much as objective sitters. Now with daemon allies you can just throw plaguebearers onto an objective in cover and get a nice 2+ save by going to ground. The daemons also have no chance of failing a morale check from shooting. Granted the plaguebearers can't shoot, but they are a nice cheap, hard to move object.

The marines might be good if you could combat squad them and keep a heavy weapon on an objective while the other 5 guys race off to do something else. That would increase the amount of targets. But no, chaos marines somehow forgot that they don't need to hang out in groups of 10 to use 2 special weapons.

The other option is to toss your objectives into the center of the board tempting your opponent to come forward as you push the marines up the board. This is also tricky as the only mobility that csm have (rhinos) get shot to pieces before the marines get to where they are needed.

So the issue I am having is that chaos marines don't do anything particularly well as compared to other units. There are better objective sitters. There are better assaulters. There are better shooters. With the prevalence of AP3 shooting it's made it difficult to find a spot for them.

I don't want to give up though, since fielding a chaos space marine army without chaos space marines seems silly.

My latest strategy (which I haven't had too much time with which to experiment) is to make the marines a low priority target so they can get something done. So I am kitting them out to be midfield support units for my scary assault guys. Who wants to shoot a rhino full of csm, when there is a bloodthirster and a biker lord with the axe of blind fury coming at you. So perhaps a distraction like that can allow the marines time to get to the middle of the board where they can support the heavy hitters.

To do that I am trying to keep them cheap with a 10 man squad, 2 meltas, rhino and dirge caster. Denying overwatch (especially if the Tau rumors are true) would be a nice little bonus if the rhino lives for 2-3 turns.

bogalubov wrote:

To do that I am trying to keep them cheap with a 10 man squad, 2 meltas, rhino and dirge caster. Denying overwatch (especially if the Tau rumors are true) would be a nice little bonus if the rhino lives for 2-3 turns.

I think that's the best method.

Keep it simple, focus on the inherent strength of the bolter and power armor and you'll do fine.

I like blobs of marines, 20 with an attached Lascannon, and a Sorceror. As long as the Sorc. is there they're LD ten. Keep the sorceror cheap, just ML3 and a familiar, he rolls with Telepathy. I also usually throw a power Maul on the Champion. It's not overly expensive considering how long it'll stay on the table.

Champions with a power weapon and a plasma pistol, Gift of mutation-gotta get those precise shots in
Marines with CCWs, melta/plasma, and a heavy bolter-mainly anti-infantry, havocs can deal with tanks
no marks usually, but an Icon of Vengeance if I can afford it so they stay where I tell 'em to.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Champions with a power weapon and a plasma pistol, Gift of mutation-gotta get those precise shots in
Marines with CCWs, melta/plasma, and a heavy bolter-mainly anti-infantry, havocs can deal with tanks
no marks usually, but an Icon of Vengeance if I can afford it so they stay where I tell 'em to.

Do you usually give your Havocs Missile Launchers, Autocannons or Lascannons? I have 9 Obliterators but I've been thinking about fielding Havocs with 4 lascannons cause of how cheap they are (155 pts).

I use havocs with missile launchers and flakk. Spare points go into padding out the unit to minimize losses.

I'm in the process of making a pack of obliterators and seeing how they work with havocs.

If you are bringing autocannons, make sure to supplement it with plenty of melta. There's nothing worse than getting trolled by Land Raider or Ghost Ark spam and having your anti-tank rendered useless.

(Side note: SoloFalcon1138, I love the last line in your signature. Totally cracked me up.)

My current favourite that seems to cause grief is a unit of 20 marines with MoN , Dual CC, powerfist and multiple special weapons. Its expensive but its walked through 3 turns of a 50 man Guard platoon FRFSRFing it. 8 got into combat and wiped them out 2 turns later

The other one I have tried is running it as two units, spending spare points on extra marines.

The principle is turning those 4+ to 5+ and 5+ to 6+ to wound
And of course the cultist moving cover helps stop any ap3

As plague marines.
/thread

I run several flavors but the most common is as follows:

10 x Chaos Space Marines with 2 x Melta Guns with Rhino (Dirge)
10 x Chaos Space Marines with 2 x Flamers with Rhino (Dirge)

I don't put on VotLW, don't kit out the champion, and don't waste any points anywhere. Means I can usually squeeze a few more squads in. Both the squads have distinct objectives and in larger games when I can afford it, I will double up on both. I prefer an aggressive play style so short range melta and flamers compliment that. They're effective at what they do, one hits heavy tanks and the other hits infantry blobs. Cheap and cheerful.

I'll also usually have one that's only 9 CSM with a power armored sorcerer in there for support.

If I run things on foot I also have two flavors:
20 x MoK Space Marines with CCW and Icon of Wrath
10 x Chaos Space Marines with 2 x Plasma

The first is just for fun. Assault got hit pretty hard in this edition but it's pretty fun to watch that big blob of power armor run up field. I'll usually stick my HQ in this blob and run until I can touch the enemy with my chainaxe. The Icon of Wrath let's you reroll charge distance, and let me tell you it is a lifesaver. Worth its points for me every time. The second squad is plain and simple. Plinks away with plasmas and mans my quadgun.

 Griddlelol wrote:
As plague marines.
/thread

Plague marines can't go to ground and I feel that that is a minus for objective holders

 Mr. Voidness wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
As plague marines.
/thread

Plague marines can't go to ground and I feel that that is a minus for objective holders

I think that's mitigated by FNP.

I prefer 10 or more CSM with CCW and boltgun, plus 2 melta guns and power sword/fist on champ, if champ has sword he gets melta bombs. I never give vet.

bogalubov wrote:

 Mr. Voidness wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
As plague marines.
/thread

Plague marines can't go to ground and I feel that that is a minus for objective holders

I think that's mitigated by FNP.

Not as much as it used to be. 5+ just isn't as reliable as 4+. Yes you get to use it on Ap2 stuff now, and with T5 it basically becomes an Invuln save, but it has always been mass of fire that brings plagues down, more so now that you only have a 1/3 chance of making the FNP save. As another poster said, a huge blob of MoN marines now seems more survivable than a small unit of Plague Marines for the same cost. And unlike Plagues they can go to ground, increasing their save.

Plague Marines are a solid all comers choice but there are a few times that CSMs beat them out.

#1 When you need more bolter bodies. With more cheap infantry like daemons and likely fire warriors, simply having additional shots downrange is useful.
#2 When the incoming firepower is primarily S6+ and AP3. Point for point, PM lose their durability advantage when they're getting hit by plasma, battle cannons and other standard MEQ killers.

 juraigamer wrote:
I prefer 10 or more CSM with CCW and boltgun, plus 2 melta guns and power sword/fist on champ, if champ has sword he gets melta bombs. I never give vet.

I find Veteran upgrade pretty much mandatory 5-10 pts investment since Chaos Space Marines nowadays aren't very brave. Obliterators LD 8.. srsly?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

bogalubov wrote:

 Mr. Voidness wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
As plague marines.
/thread

Plague marines can't go to ground and I feel that that is a minus for objective holders

I think that's mitigated by FNP.

Not as much as it used to be. 5+ just isn't as reliable as 4+. Yes you get to use it on Ap2 stuff now, and with T5 it basically becomes an Invuln save, but it has always been mass of fire that brings plagues down, more so now that you only have a 1/3 chance of making the FNP save. As another poster said, a huge blob of MoN marines now seems more survivable than a small unit of Plague Marines for the same cost. And unlike Plagues they can go to ground, increasing their save.

My comment was mostly in terms of going to ground.

A marine going to ground in area terrain will have a 4+ cover save. A plague marine will have a 5+ cover save and a 5+ FNP save. The plague marine will actually have a higher chance of surviving than the regular marine who goes to ground. Marginally so, but 56% vs 50%. Behind 4+ cover, their chances of living are the same. So the going to ground argument doesn't work for weapons below S10.

The leadership argument is not always cut and dry in favor or taking the veteran upgrade either. The aspiring champion is LD9 and in non challenge situations should be one of the last 3 people to die (the other two are the guys carrying the special weapons). So I look at them as LD9 as well. If I start dumping points in them, even small amounts of points, I am wasting the advantage of CSM being cheap.

It makes more sense on obliterators, but there you're taking one or two checks before the unit is gone so it's not that big of deal either. If you're taking those checks in the first place, your obliterator unit is not long for this world.