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I have read quite a bit about how the Lizardmen book will be next after High Elves, and though that may be a ways off, I have not heard anything about what the new book will entale. Again, it is rather far off so it may be more difficult to come up woth soild rumours or sightings and the like, most arimes that far off there have been plenty of rumours and suspicions for, some of which end up being really quite accurate. For example, WoC, Daemons, and High Elves, I remember there were plenty of things about rule changes and units and such. So my question is, do you think the Lizardmen book is reallly in the line? Their book is not necessarely new, but nor is it old. They do need to be balanced however as they are rather overpowered. I suspect though, that perhaps it is another book, not Lizardmen that is approaching.

I may be wrong of course. But I recall a few years ago when a similar thing occured in 40k, with I think Necrons or Dark Eldar. But, I want to know what everyone thinks. What rumours there are, and if you think it isnt Lizardmen, then who?

Harry and Hastings on warseer are very reliable and according to them the LM are due in the fall.

Some says this year some says next, what's for certain Tau - highelf -¨eldar¨ or something¨

But we'll see

I suppose so. Also I agree they are reliable, im not doubting their riability or anyons.. But I havent seen anything of Lizardmen.

Really I guess waiting is the answer. But I had anticipated at least some whispers by now. I am eager to see what this year has to present later. Especially if its very old books, or more recent op books.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I suppose so. Also I agree they are reliable, im not doubting their riability or anyons.. But I havent seen anything of Lizardmen.

Really I guess waiting is the answer. But I had anticipated at least some whispers by now. I am eager to see what this year has to present later. Especially if its very old books, or more recent op books.

Yeah, they are one of my main armies I have a large painted force of them. I am sure that magic will be toned down. Temple Guard need a point reduction as do stegadons. It would be nice if the cavalry was made worth taking. They have been a steady army in all the editions so I am not to worried about it.

I agree, I cant imagine they of all armies would get a huge nerf. But I do think that compared to what they are now it may seem like one.(i.e. WoC) That goes for other OP books though as well, Dark Elves and Skaven, when they are re done a lot of people will say they are terrible because fhey arent broken anymore.

I definitely think Cold Ones should go down a few points. Also get new models to match those of the DE, because currently they are rather silly. Also I think the Slann do need to be toned down, some of the builds are nasty.

Still waiting on my Wood Elves :(

 King of the Elves wrote:
Still waiting on my Wood Elves :(

I know, same here! I am waiting for the Dwarves. I dont know how they can let books fall so far behind.

Hoping they drop SC points.
Kroq used to be able to take saurus cav as troops.
Now he can take 1 unit as troops.
They are however heavily over costed which really does put me off.

Just hoping the book does not have any massive changes since i like playing my pure skink list aswell.

Yeah I kinda want some of the older Lords/Heroes to return as well as add ones from the Lore. Also if Kroxigor were S5 I could see them staying where they are. But I am also not sure if all cavalry as troops would be good. Maybe 2 units. Plus if theu are cheaper which they should be, that will make it better to have them as specials also.

At the moment, if you play lizardmen and want special characters, you need to be running a 2,400 - 3,000 point list, simply to fit them into the 25%.

Mountain - im just kinda annoyed still that i had a kroq army running 3 units of saurus cav, skink skirmishers and stegs.
This has now had to be re-designed so i have 2 bigger units of cav, and 1 of which eats badly into my special choices
Was more of a mix of new edition and new book that screwed me over lol.

Just seems that LM SC's are really badly over costed and the rules for them are just poor.
Kroaks special spell that "only he knew" has now been given to maz instead, and he has another less useful one instead.

Would just be nice for GW to make changes, but not wreck every non-standard list in the process of doing so.

Ah yeah I see what you are saying. The SC's are overpriced though and they need to give the unique factors of some back to them. I might also like to see an eternity guard type character that can be taken for Slann. Also that the generations system returns as opposed to disciplines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a couple other things I can see, short bows for Skinks, and Saurus go up 1-2 points. And Kroxigor go up in points but gain 1S. Also Slann need to go up in points, maybe come with other stuff standard. But still go up.

All SCs are overpriced. They aren't meant to be cost-effective. They are meant to be fluffy. If they were cost-effective, people wouldn't use the generic ones and there'd be 10 Kroak vs. Kroak fights every tourney.

Khairos is good. But he's not unreservedly good. You don't take him no matter what. Teclis is always good no matter what. Which tells you it's a problem.

You want generic Slann to be just as, or probably more viable than any named one. With the named ones adding color.


Prediction: Slann either completely lose the ward or it goes to 5. You can always buy a 4+. Lose a wound. Not sure about all the other wacky stuff.

Let the nerfing begin. I will not miss the salamander spam and cupped hands. SC are as over priced as centigors....

I do hope so. Slann need a considerable nerf, same as Salamanders, Stegs might need a buff.

Yeah Slann really get ridiculous. I mean, playing Dwarves it is a bit different. But that doesnt change how Slann are costed and such. And Salamanders are really good, they may get a nerf of some kind.

I see Stegs getting a buff. Kroxigor getting a slight buff. Maybe 1T?

The big things are they will lose all those items and I think gain a bunch of units. They really don't have that many. The fluff doesn't currently have an allowance for any major bipedal guys, you got slann, skinks, saurus, kroxigor in order of brainz. But there's a really large gulf between them.

They have a lot of leeway for a dinosaur MC. Probably the easiest time of any race.

And...wait for it, I think Saurus are getting a point increase. If Bloodletters did, they will. Daemonettes cost the same and are -1S/T and +2WS/I which isn't the same value by any stretch. The Saurus got 5+ and a shield and Daemonettes are 5+ ward. It might be 1-2 points I think. Or maybe they don't get default shields and it becomes an option you buy.

I can see it as well. Saurus go to 14pts. Which, I dont think is too bad really. But also Kroxigor go up +1S and maybe also 1T. Lizardmen do have a pretty broad variety of things that can be used as MC. I think that just going with Carnesaurs will almost be a cheap way out though. However I do think they will gain other units, maybe a specific kind of Saurus warrior or something, and add some of the older lords/heroes.

They won't use Carnisaurs because they already have rules. And they won't have a D3 wounding MC.

I don't see +1 S on Kroxigor and not sure why people keep asking for it. They already got 6S with their GW. You're not getting a whole lot with 7S. 1T would be vastly more beneficial.

+1T is doubtful there are very few T5 MI's. I think GW figures their enhanced toughness is through wounds not actual toughness.

Some stuff has it. But 6 defensive stats are generally for monsters, including wounds, with 4 for Monstrous. And 5 for lordy characters.

New DoC Beasts and Krox aren't amazingly too far apart. Cost nearly the same. Beast is T5. With 1T the Krox would be, IMHO, pretty close. It's got more Str but less overall defense.

I can barely wait for the yummy, yummy Lizardmen players' sweet tears

 Sigvatr wrote:
I can barely wait for the yummy, yummy Lizardmen players' sweet tears

LOL having trouble with the LM army?

The only thing wrong with the LM army is that it has 7th edition magic in 8th edition.

Stegs are overpriced
Saurus are expensive if not overpriced
Temple Guard are definitely overpriced
Engine of Gods is priced to high to use

The salamander is just hell against T3 troops, not so much against T4 troops. I mean if you cant take out a sally you are kind of lame

The razordon is useless and the pteradons are so-so

Cold One Cav is not worth bothering with as a unit.

I have played plenty of games where the winds of magic gave me only 1 or 2 decent magic phases. Basically if you have extraordinary trouble beating the LM army I think you need to up your game.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Not sure about all the other wacky stuff.

For some reason, I'm a really big fan of long lists of options and lots of customizability. And so, I dislike the VC switch to less powers and no bloodlines, I'm worried that the Dwarf runes are going to go in the same direction, and I hope that the Lizardmen stuff doesn't suffer the same fate. You could argue that VC are more balanced because of it, but I don't think it would be impossible to balance a long-ish list internally. Many of them need to be toned down a bit, but I've often felt like Red Fury is just as good as any Slann power currently available. Maybe not the one that transfers a miscast, though.

JWhex wrote:

Saurus are expensive if not overpriced

Hah, APRIL FOOLS!

They are 4/4 units with 2 attacks and 4+ armor and 6+ parry and cold blooded. They are fantastically good. They beat for cost nearly every core in the game very decidedly. Beat them For Cost.

For some reason, I'm a really big fan of long lists of options and lots of customizability. And so, I dislike the VC switch to less powers and no bloodlines

This happened to every new book. DoC lost what, 4 pages of powers? WoC lost some. The spell lists of those two were made the same except for lore attribute. WoC has customization like it should be. Model-level. You can buy all kinds of equipment and abilities. Even if they are kind of the same.

The problem with long lists of what are essentially whole other Special Rules is they get out of balance extremely fast. I was surprised, really surprised, that DoC has all that wacky Winds of Magic stuff and instability tests. As it's exactly the opposite of the direction they went with every other army.

Dwarfs are just borked. They got their own point system that doesn't balance with the BRB.

I would imagine the book will go back to more like its previous edition. I think Saurus are need an increase in points not a decrease, I mean, talk about broken. Like it was said they went away from bloodlines and many powers for WoC and Daemons, so it makes it hard to believe they would bring back something like the generations system.

I am also concerned about the Runes though. Its different because you can get rid of some abilities and such and still be a really damn good army like with VC, Lizardmen, Daemons etc. But nerfing the Runes will cripple an extremely key part of the Dwarf army. Not to say they wont still be competetive of course, but the Runes are not primarily offensive when used by a Runelord or Runesmith. While the other armies will still have primarily offensive magic.

At the same time, I dont think they would mess around a frest deal with the Runes. Nerfing such a unique component of an army would be a bad move on their part.

DoC powers are 1 page now. So are vampire. So are WoC. I can see 1 page of 2 sentence runes.

Oh, I have absolutely no doubt that they'll be removing a ton of runes, reworking the entire system, and giving the entire army a complete overhaul. I just hope I'm wrong.

JWhex wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I can barely wait for the yummy, yummy Lizardmen players' sweet tears

LOL having trouble with the LM army?

You're not a comp player, are you?

I just can't wait until they balance Slann. Oh, the sweet, sweet frog players' tears! Let me lick them up!

 Sigvatr wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I can barely wait for the yummy, yummy Lizardmen players' sweet tears

LOL having trouble with the LM army?

You're not a comp player, are you?

I just can't wait until they balance Slann. Oh, the sweet, sweet frog players' tears! Let me lick them up!

No, none of the tournaments around here use any composition restrictions. In friendly games we dont use any restrictions either. Everyone knows you will be facing hard lists so its not really a problem. Comp or no comp it makes no difference as long as everyone knows ahead of time and is on board. Usually our casual games are in preparation for a tournament so it wouldnt make any sense to use composition rules.