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 Gomez wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:


First, the art of advertising is not nearly so clumsy as you imply: advertisements are couched in a number of equivocations or non-provable terms precisely to make direct comparisons difficult. The problem with SM is that they a) traded almost entirely on their reputation for models of a certain quality, b) made repeated and explicit assurances that the product in question would be of similarly high quality, and c) ultimately delivered something... good? Something certainly that can be agreed to be of a level with other board games of a high quality, but certainly not a product leaps and bounds above comparable games, consider Dreadball, for example.

Of particular interest is the quality of subsequent board games such as Kingdom Death: Monster. Having seen the hit that SM took to their reputation (and being obsessively concerned with quality), Poots seems bound and determined to produce superlative game pieces.

Second, while the notion is common that complainers are more likely to speak up and are unrepresentative, it is by no means a truism, and in fact is quite possibly the very opposite of reality. From that, an excellent business maxim of Marshall Fields: "Those who buy, support me. Those who come to flatter, please me. Those who complain teach me how I may please others so they will buy. The only ones that hurt me are those who are displeased but do not complain. They refuse me permission to correct my errors and thus improve my service."

The greatest danger going forward for any KS campaign isn't necessarily from the numbers of complaints, but the number of people that consider the final product... uninspiring. Loving it or hating it is one thing, but at the end of the process going "meh"? That's a very big problem...

First, that article was interesting - thanks for linking it (though it does only look at the issue via different types of complainers, rather than complainers vs. non-complainers).

Second, I agree with you that SM was trading on their reputation and has now taken a hit to it. I guess all along I assumed there would be a (not-terribly-significant) dip in quality because of the difference in material, and I took their assurances of quality with that caveat in mind. And I got more or less what I expected (some sculpts a little lower in quality than I expected, and some a little better). Clearly, others didn't see it from the same perspective.

In the end I suppose I'm just a forgiving guy who is willing to look beyond a few missteps due to inexperience - so long as they fix them as they move forward. So I guess we'll see how long people like me are satisfied with SM's products.

I'm a forgiving guy to, I recently spent close to $400 in the Studio McVey webstore even after all this BS.

The problem with this, as you've now agreed; they traded their reputation for this. Forget about retail release and how we would not see anything, this was not retail; this was via kickstarter and it is very different from releasing a product to market on your own.

Reputation is a very hard thing to build back up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Meeplemart (Online & Brick'n'Mortar) retailer in Canada (they have a website to) sells the game for $62.95 new.

http://www.meeplemart.com/collections/sedition-wars/products/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe we should all withdraw our pledges...

Or not pledge at all


Izero...So this product has good a bad reviews like any other? There is always going to be people who like what they got and others that don't... Minority and majority? Who the hell has those numbers? Seems far fetched to claim your opinion is the majority. I tell you what, not even Mcvey knows that because its just something you cannot track accurately... One person Like yourself can complain constantly about everything ( like simultaneous projects, not exactly as marketed etc) while others may not manifest a opinion at all...

And yes the user you discarded so politely as fresh user does have a point about marketing.

The only new thing about people complaining about a product here is that somehow KS's gives them some kind of illusion of entitlement regarding the company they KS'ed... Just because you pledged on a project it does not make you anything else but a customer preordering... you dont have a say about the company or the projects they wish to develop... heck the moment you pledge and the company takes your money and only delivers stuff so many months later you are lucky if you get your minis in the first place! because its going to be a pain if you want to cancel credit card charge so many months later... So yes big risk and its not worth the hassle if you ask me.

This reminds me now that the reviews are out there I can have an educated decision about this product... going to pass and only pick up a couple of the limited editions for painting, saved me 60, 70 or whatever money. That is my "reward".

 NAVARRO wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe we should all withdraw our pledges...

Or not pledge at all


Izero...So this product has good a bad reviews like any other? There is always going to be people who like what they got and others that don't... Minority and majority? Who the hell has those numbers? Seems far fetched to claim your opinion is the majority. I tell you what, not even Mcvey knows that because its just something you cannot track accurately... One person Like yourself can complain constantly about everything ( like simultaneous projects, not exactly as marketed etc) while others may not manifest a opinion at all...

And yes the user you discarded so politely as fresh user does have a point about marketing.

The only new thing about people complaining about a product here is that somehow KS's gives them some kind of illusion of entitlement regarding the company they KS'ed... Just because you pledged on a project it does not make you anything else but a customer preordering... you dont have a say about the company or the projects they wish to develop... heck the moment you pledge and the company takes your money and only delivers stuff so many months later you are lucky if you get your minis in the first place! because its going to be a pain if you want to cancel credit card charge so many months later... So yes big risk and its not worth the hassle if you ask me.

This reminds me now that the reviews are out there I can have an educated decision about this product... going to pass and only pick up a couple of the limited editions for painting, saved me 60, 70 or whatever money. That is my "reward".

I don't appreciate your response based on skimming comments to try and present a false and illusory sense of superiority to your point.

If you notice, I gave Sedition Wars a great review on Dakka, go look for it, if you can be bothered; if you had actually read my posts here you would notice I mentioned that as well.

I doubt you saved $60-$70 either because the average Limited Edition Figure will probably be selling for upwards of $30. Guys like me will still be making money hand over fist when Phase 2 comes due to all the people who want the LE figures but didn't want to pledge.

That doesn't change the fact that this product was not at all what was advertised or what we paid for. I'm going to use an example of a Video Game that recently had a huge debacle in response to your preorder argument.

Heard of the War Z? They made some terribly false claims about the video game they 'pre-sold' to people before release.

These claims were so bad, STEAM refunded everyone who purchased The War Z and kicked War Z off steam.

The difference between Steam and Kickstarter, is Kickstarter has no accountability.

Also? Trust me. Mr. McVey knows what is thought of his most recent product and he is a very sad man due to giving up his reputation for a few extra bucks.

 IdentifyZero wrote:

I don't appreciate your response based on skimming comments to try and present a false and illusory sense of superiority to your point.

If you notice, I gave Sedition Wars a great review on Dakka, go look for it, if you can be bothered; if you had actually read my posts here you would notice I mentioned that as well.

I doubt you saved $60-$70 either because the average Limited Edition Figure will probably be selling for upwards of $30. Guys like me will still be making money hand over fist when Phase 2 comes due to all the people who want the LE figures but didn't want to pledge.

That doesn't change the fact that this product was not at all what was advertised or what we paid for. I'm going to use an example of a Video Game that recently had a huge debacle in response to your preorder argument.

Heard of the War Z? They made some terribly false claims about the video game they 'pre-sold' to people before release.

These claims were so bad, STEAM refunded everyone who purchased The War Z and kicked War Z off steam.

The difference between Steam and Kickstarter, is Kickstarter has no accountability.

Also? Trust me. Mr. McVey knows what is thought of his most recent product and he is a very sad man due to giving up his reputation for a few extra bucks.

Sense o what? You really need to take a break man

You would probably pay 30 for ltd and that is because you dont plan ahead

As for false claims... errr depends on your perspective for some they fulfilled their claims for other they did not.

Mcvey is a stellar fella, I have seen and talked with him in person if there is one person not happy with his stuff he will do all in his power to help out, that is the kind of guy he is so you are not giving any news here.

The point some do not seem to notice is that KS's are putting a huge stress on small companies, both the ones that enter KS and the others that dont... Small companies have a huge problem handling high volumes and need to adjust fast... by adjustments I mean cut corners, adjust timings etc

 NAVARRO wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:

I don't appreciate your response based on skimming comments to try and present a false and illusory sense of superiority to your point.

If you notice, I gave Sedition Wars a great review on Dakka, go look for it, if you can be bothered; if you had actually read my posts here you would notice I mentioned that as well.

I doubt you saved $60-$70 either because the average Limited Edition Figure will probably be selling for upwards of $30. Guys like me will still be making money hand over fist when Phase 2 comes due to all the people who want the LE figures but didn't want to pledge.

That doesn't change the fact that this product was not at all what was advertised or what we paid for. I'm going to use an example of a Video Game that recently had a huge debacle in response to your preorder argument.

Heard of the War Z? They made some terribly false claims about the video game they 'pre-sold' to people before release.

These claims were so bad, STEAM refunded everyone who purchased The War Z and kicked War Z off steam.

The difference between Steam and Kickstarter, is Kickstarter has no accountability.

Also? Trust me. Mr. McVey knows what is thought of his most recent product and he is a very sad man due to giving up his reputation for a few extra bucks.

As an aside, that's a really cool website you have, I thought that confrontation warband you did looked especially sweet.

(Yeah this has nothing to do with the topic but I thought his site was cool, click it if you have not.)

I dunno.... I thought the quality of the Sedition Wars presentation was realy high. My Resin Kara was exactly what I expected from a Studio McVey resin and the plastics were superior to most plastics I own, ESPECIALLY in a board game. Crisp detail, varied sculpts, fun to paint, etc.

I don't feel Studio McVey '[gave] up his reputation' at all....

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
From what they last said they weren't doing a KS for the expansion.

So has McVey actually made a recent announcement stating that there won't be an Arm of Sorrow Kickstarter? i remember last year they said that the next SW expansion was going to be a straight release, but their plans could have easily changed within that time frame.

I really can't see CMON passing up on the opportunity to make a ridiculous amount of money off of another Sedition Wars Kickstarter, especially After the massive success that they had recently with Zombicide: Season 2.

 NAVARRO wrote:

Mcvey is a stellar fella, I have seen and talked with him in person if there is one person not happy with his stuff he will do all in his power to help out, that is the kind of guy he is so you are not giving any news here.

Let's not use hyperbole here.


While I'm sure Mike is a great guy in person, etc - I'm not happy with the mess of a rulebook the game came with, and I'd like a proper printed rulebook over having to print out a PDF. I'm 100% sure Mike would have it in his power to post me a replacement rulebook, and I'm also pretty sure it's not going to happen...

 Azazelx wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Mcvey is a stellar fella, I have seen and talked with him in person if there is one person not happy with his stuff he will do all in his power to help out, that is the kind of guy he is so you are not giving any news here.

Let's not use hyperbole here.


While I'm sure Mike is a great guy in person, etc - I'm not happy with the mess of a rulebook the game came with, and I'd like a proper printed rulebook over having to print out a PDF. I'm 100% sure Mike would have it in his power to post me a replacement rulebook, and I'm also pretty sure it's not going to happen...

This is what I brought up earlier, how they should be printing us off a brand new rulebook.

People argue we should pay or print it off via PDF.

Don't worry, I've sent my thoughts to Mr. McVey and if he values the revenue he has made from me at all every year (I think a few thousand from the same customer consistently is noticeable for a resin boutique) he will definitely take a look into making the consumer base happy. Otherwise, I'll just give up on Sedition Wars now.

People are complaining about how horrible GW is in a few other threads, but man, does GW ever really fail to deliver what they promise in terms of quality?

 Azazelx wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Mcvey is a stellar fella, I have seen and talked with him in person if there is one person not happy with his stuff he will do all in his power to help out, that is the kind of guy he is so you are not giving any news here.

Let's not use hyperbole here.


While I'm sure Mike is a great guy in person, etc - I'm not happy with the mess of a rulebook the game came with, and I'd like a proper printed rulebook over having to print out a PDF. I'm 100% sure Mike would have it in his power to post me a replacement rulebook, and I'm also pretty sure it's not going to happen...

actually, from SMV site recently,
[quote name='Studio McVey - Mike' timestamp='1365069974' post='16759']
I'm exploring if we can make printed versions of the rules and cards available separately - that is certainly my preferred option, but ultimately it's not my decision.

I'll do all I can though - and keep you posted.

mike

There's plenty of accounts of McVey being a super-likable guy. I believe it was Poots of Kingdom Death that also recounted how it was his personal interactions with McVey that helped him so much.

I don't think anyone is stating that Studio McVey is being meanie-butts.

 Absolutionis wrote:
There's plenty of accounts of McVey being a super-likable guy. I believe it was Poots of Kingdom Death that also recounted how it was his personal interactions with McVey that helped him so much.

I don't think anyone is stating that Studio McVey is being meanie-butts.

I don't think anyone is stating that either. Mike has thrown in free figures before for me as well.

The problem is, they didn't deliver what was promised and now they have a chance to make it right. A big step would be taking a hit even to insure we all get rulebooks and revised cards if they are needed. It's easy to forget, Kickstarter funded his boardgame and without all that support it wouldn't have been a success to them like it was (based on the upgrades we unlocked via KS, imagine some of the shittier game pieces we would have had if no KS).

Otherwise, I don't think it will bode well for the expansion or success of the game.

If they can manage to work out a way to get a print copy done I'll probably pick it up,

otherwise I'll just get it printed from the pdf

I would prefer to get a printed copy, but if i have to print out the PDF, so be it. I just got a couple of Print and Play games printed out at Office Max, where they were running a 25 cent-per-color copy special. Wise shopping can make for a pretty cheap rulebook.

I'm just happy they are re-doing the Rulebook, as it was laid out horribly, with several glaring flaws. Free to KS pledges would be awesome (especially because mine arrived with the cover nearly torn off, before I even noticed the flaws in it), but I doubt that'll happen.

I'm not sure about Arms of Sorrow. I already kinda regret buying into the Kickstarter at 150 dollars, especially as I doubt I could even make the original cost money back by selling it on Ebay.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I would prefer to get a printed copy, but if i have to print out the PDF, so be it. I just got a couple of Print and Play games printed out at Office Max, where they were running a 25 cent-per-color copy special. Wise shopping can make for a pretty cheap rulebook.

I'm just happy they are re-doing the Rulebook, as it was laid out horribly, with several glaring flaws. Free to KS pledges would be awesome (especially because mine arrived with the cover nearly torn off, before I even noticed the flaws in it), but I doubt that'll happen.

I'm not sure about Arms of Sorrow. I already kinda regret buying into the Kickstarter at 150 dollars, especially as I doubt I could even make the original cost money back by selling it on Ebay.

So far the only way you can remake your money is to sell a full biohazazard including Phase 2. You may get up to $180 (That's the most I've seen them go for on ebay). As it is, the base game is currently retailing for less than we paid... lol

That's what I may try to do after Wave 2 finally arrives, because I bought a THI suit and the not-Ripley as well as the free stretch goals. I'll have to see what the updated rulebook and unit cards looks like first, because right now my Wife would be the first person i teach the game to, and the current rulebook needs far too much TLC to do that without losing her interest. Maybe the stretch goal models will get the game to the place that I was looking for in a skirmish game, I dunno.

Or maybe it was just me trying to stretch my collection that "one miniatures game too far", lol

I really like that they are moving forward with Arms of Sorrow, it's just too bad that Battle For Alabaster needed more polish before being released, and got attention to some things that were less important than others that were neccessary. I mean, we got fancy faction-engraved dice and Nano markers as a stretch goal, but not wound trackers for the unit cards???

I would just like the 2 resin Karas and the replacement boards I requested show up. Been over a month, and three emails, and no information, no updates, no nothing. CMON is the one that is responsible for that.

I'm in the same boat. Absolutely satisfied with what I got and totally baffled at the virulence of the negativity

Dito.

Also people should take prices into consideration, cause for that price the minis I get are among the best on the market. I repeat: I consider their quality in relation to what I payed for every single mini I got.

The only thing that is a little bit bad is the boards, but on the other hand, there are quite some regular games out there that have similar problems with their boards and considering how many boards I got i can live with a few edges I have to flatten and to have some of the boards put under a feww books for 1-2 days to straighten them.

I was pleased withe the stuff I got. I could care less if I get a weekely update or not as long as the stuff shows up.

Businesses always advertise their stuff as being the "best" and "highest quality", which you can never take as absolute face value.... If you can't approach marketing with a grain of salt I'd hate to see how bad you get bent over at a car dealership. Nobody ever claims to make products as the "simply ok for those on a limited budget", or "almost the best but not quite".


The quality of the figures I thought was fine, perfectly suited for tabletop game play and the production value of the game graphics and packaging is top rate. The rules have some glitches but very few comapnies pull off a home run with their rules set on the first pass. You probably never dealt with the abortion that was Rogue Trader, 40k wasn't so pretty either in it's early release.

Most companies have a fairly rough start with their inital rules release and usually follow up with at least a revised version or a second edition to help close those gaps. Some multi-million dollar companies are on their 6th or even 8th edition and still manage to screw up. I don't find much fault with a small start up company experiencing normal launch difficulties. The fact that they are addressing the rules issues with a PDF shows they are at least putting in a good faith effort to fix some of the problem rather than just sticking their head in the sand of denial like a certain large company does. I much prefer to get a PDF that I can download and use immediately, a printed version is nice but adds months of lead time before it can be schedualed with most printers meaning you might have to wait half a year or more for a hard copy.

I'm sorry if you felt you were shorted but there are also plenty of people who quite satisfied with what we got, it's likely due to having differing levels of expectations.

 paulson games wrote:
I was pleased withe the stuff I got. I could care less if I get a weekely update or not as long as the stuff shows up.

Businesses always advertise their stuff as being the "best" and "highest quality", which you can never take as absolute face value.... If you can't approach marketing with a grain of salt I'd hate to see how bad you get bent over at a car dealership. Nobody ever claims to make products as the "simply ok for those on a limited budget", or "almost the best but not quite".


The quality of the figures I thought was fine, perfectly suited for tabletop game play and the production value of the game graphics and packaging is top rate. The rules have some glitches but very few comapnies pull off a home run with their rules set on the first pass. You probably never dealt with the abortion that was Rogue Trader, 40k wasn't so pretty either in it's early release.

Most companies have a fairly rough start with their inital rules release and usually follow up with at least a revised version or a second edition to help close those gaps. Some multi-million dollar companies are on their 6th or even 8th edition and still manage to screw up. I don't find much fault with a small start up company experiencing normal launch difficulties. The fact that they are addressing the rules issues with a PDF shows they are at least putting in a good faith effort to fix some of the problem rather than just sticking their head in the sand of denial like a certain large company does. I much prefer to get a PDF that I can download and use immediately, a printed version is nice but adds months of lead time before it can be schedualed with most printers meaning you might have to wait half a year or more for a hard copy.

I'm sorry if you felt you were shorted but there are also plenty of people who quite satisfied with what we got, it's likely due to having differing levels of expectations.

I'm sorry that you're still sitting here using your straw man argument.

False advertising whether or not it is something that happens on a regular basis, is in fact something that companies should take quite seriously. If you are American and pay any attention to the things that occur within your country, you would note that false advertisement makes up a good percentage of claims court and large companies are taken to court on a regular basis for false advertising on a far larger basis than Studio McVey could dream of.

Paulson Games, I get that you have empathy for Studio McVey being a small gaming company to and I bet that makes you feel like some kind of expert, good for you mate it doesn't make you saying everything is fine with it; fix the problem.

Anyone who wants to sit here and say that Sedition Wars was a perfect product out of the box and doesn't need revised rules is absolutely and utterly ******** (I won't say the word). Studio McVey acknowledges themselves they released a garbage rulebook and it needs to be entirely revised and lo and behold, they did revise it.

I've said they need to issue us that rulebook for free. Why some of you have a problem with that is beyond me? I do know it has had multiple people attacking me and many others agreeing, that damn right, they do want a replacement rulebook issued to them. Tell me again, why I should put out another $30 to play a game I already paid for?

That's right, I should not have to. The game should have been properly playtested to begin with.

I'm going to have to attribute this attitude to either willful ignorance, a total lack of knowledge of gaming systems of any kind or a strange fanboi desire to defend Studio McVey from any criticism.

Furthermore, to anyone who wants to try to ad hominem attack me, go back to the Original Studio McVey topic and read my review of Sedition Wars.

Thank you kindly for not trying to rebuttal this, it's a waste of your time.

P.S. - Don't make assumptions about what I have or haven't played, it just makes you look like a condescending little goblin. (P.S. Rogue Trader also never claimed to be the best on all of miniatures available at the time, at least not that I can find nor has any other game I can think of in recent or long term memory; mind naming me some other miniatures games outside of Sedition Wars that claim to be the best of the best?_

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Anyone who wants to sit here and say that Sedition Wars was a perfect product out of the box

Is anyone saying that?

 Manchu wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Anyone who wants to sit here and say that Sedition Wars was a perfect product out of the box

Is anyone saying that?

A great deal of people (A vocal group on this forums) are arguing just that, that SW had no flaws out of the box and doesn't need any revisions and was exactly what was advertised.

I like you manchu, you're a reasonable guy. Can you pleeeease tell me what other recent games have made the same advertising tagline as Sedition Wars in the miniatures world? I'm looking and unable to find any other company claiming to have the highest quality/highest standard blah blah blah in miniatures gaming.

(Note: GW does have a statement they make the finest miniatures and games in the world.)

As much as I would love to read another thread on arguments about how Sedition Wars products failed to deliver, were amazing, terrible service, highest quality ever, ect here is the link for that:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3780/451585.page

Conveniently enough there is already lots of arguing there.

This section is for news and rumors of upcoming products.

str00dles1 wrote:
As much as I would love to read another thread on arguments about how Sedition Wars products failed to deliver, were amazing, terrible service, highest quality ever, ect here is the link for that:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3780/451585.page

Conveniently enough there is already lots of arguing there.

This section is for news and rumors of upcoming products.

Yeah, I agree with this guy ^^

Quit your arguing and let us wait for some actual news (pretty please! )

@IdentifyZero: Well, you're talking about 2 separate points there: point one is whether or not Studio McVey claims Sedition Wars is perfect and point two is whether anyone ITT is claiming Sedition Wars is perfect.

Point one: Studio McVey hyped up their product on KS with some OTT language about being the best and highest quality. Fair play to anyone who feels that was overblown. And Studio McVey's own actions seem to belie their rulebook being "highest quality." OTOH, GW is a good example of how trustworthy a "highest quality" sales pitch really is.

Point two: I don't think anyone ITT (I admit, I may have misread) is saying Sedition Wars is perfect. I mean, you explicitly accused Paulson Games of deploying a strawman argument -- but it seems like that's actually what you are doing. Paulson Games didn't say Sedition Wars was perfect; rather he said he was satisfied and had a lower level of expectation than you.

OK actual news and rumors (as that's what this thread is called)

Arms of Sorrow - stand alone game but can also be used as an expansion for BfA.
Release date late 2013 (that depends on a later point)
MSRP $90

Miniatures - 20+ new sculpts, Vanguard versus Strain only about half seen so far and some of those are still in a WIP state.
I've asked Mike if the Firebrand or Bounty Hunters appear in AoS I don't believe they do that's for the next expansion. I'll let you know when I hear back.
The game is a good bit further on in the development stage than it appears in the picture from GAMA.

Expect to hear something more official in the next few weeks but Mike doesn't want to say anything yet until it's 100% definite.

That is not a generic Gnosis suit.

The Arms of Sorrow is a Bastion class ship and is in orbit over Alabaster station at the time of BfA. The game/expansion takes place on board the AoS from the current fluff at the end of BfA the AoS has been compromised by the Strain, Kara and her team are MIA (so expect other Vanguard characters to feature). 80% of the crew have been "turned" the rest have evacuated and a small force is left trying to hold back the Strain. The Strain are trying to take over the ship and fly it into the Alabaster system core where the Vanguard and Firebrand forces are currently engaged. The Strain are ultimately looking for new resources. The AoS AI Tumult has been unable to engage the self destruct so is instead trying to crash the AoS into the nearest star to prevent the strain spreading.

From trask at livingdice.com via SMV forums who spoke with Mike at GAMA

Mike McVey indicated that he wanted to release "satellite" expansions usable with Arms of Sorrow and Battle for Alabaster.
He indicated that the satellite games required a lot of resources to publish and they "might well kickstart it" (it being Arms of Sorrow and the satellites) as an alternative.
That said, his final word was "not sure."

So it might get a Kickstarter to fund further expansions to BfA and AoS but nothing has been decided one way or another on that front yet.

Another Kickstarter possibility, hmmmm. Not sure how I feel about that.

I'll be in if he does run one as I'm well chuffed with what I've got both from the Biohazard Kickstarter and his wider SW miniatures (though give us more resins!). But I get the feeling that with the slew of CMON and other Kickstarters, wallets may be running increasingly thin.

If this goes the direct to retail path it may help with the long term future of the game. Going traditional will help get some stores on board supporting and selling the line.

Interesting that AoS is now looking like another full sized and priced game

and interesting too that he's considering add on bits for both down the line

Selling direct may prove more popular with retailers, but will those that have 'issues' with stocking SW really decide to buy into AoS as it's basically the same system/setting ?

We'll have to wait and see

(if CMON who look to be publishing it from the Gamma teasers decides to go the KS route after all I wouldn't be surprised)

Thanks, Dave, for the info-- looking forward to seeing what they do (and how the games are compatible, because it seems moderately difficult right now)

Suspect they may want to iron out all the kinks that popped up with SW:BoA and make sure they are fixed before they try another KS. Doing a standard commercial release allows them to line up and verify manufacturers in a less hectic manner. Suspect the rush to meet the deadlines for the KS forced them to not properly vet their manufacturers previously. I had thought working with CMoN would get around that issue, but apparently it didn't.

*edit* Just to add, also by having the second one through standard store releases, exposes the game to people who may have not committed to the KS and also directs funds of people who would back a KS through FLGS. Could say a bridge builder.