Switch Theme:

Orks vs New Tau codex  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

KFF would pretty much only force him to either let you have a 5+ save or waste a couple lights to remove it. While nice, i dont think its better than not having a meganob boss (or biker boss if you go that route).
I probably wouldnt even field it, then again i have horrid luck with vehicles so i tend to avoid them all together. I do better having blobs of 20boyz footslogging it with a bikermissile or two wizzing up the field to go HEY LOOK AT ME FIRST LOOK LOOK LOOK HEY !!! HEEEEYY!!! lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





As a Tau player, Deffrollas scare me. Especially if I'm playing foot gunline Tau. Without a lot of fusion (and a lot of Tau players haven't adapted to the need for lots of fusion on suits these days), he'll have a hard time stopping you. Frontal AV14 is hard to deal with when the majority of their long-range shots are S7 or S8. Dealing with 3-4 of those covered by a KFF is even more difficult - they'll only have so many Markerlights, and if they're negating your cover they're not boosting their BS as much. If they've got enough MLs to do both they don't have as many bodies or enough fusion.

Flat out turns 1-2, driving right up on top of their Aegis. Then angle appropriately and tank shock the snot out of them on turn 3 at the latest. With the massed foot tau behind Aegis theme, and as many S10 hits that a block of 3-4 Deffrollas can put out, that's a lot of squished troops. Not to mention the fact that any that do break are likely to run off the board.

Just a thought.
   
Made in kr
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Can also Boarding Plank after ramming their vehicles, if he has any.
The only restrictions on the plank is neither vehicles have moved more than 12" (flat out, basically. The extra inch for RPJ does not count for any penalties)

I remember first time i did that. I rammed an AV11 Rhino and blew it up, continued into a hovermode Stormraven which i caused 2 glances to. So i planked it, with a megannob boss so 6 S10 attaks ap2

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz






NJ

Spoiler:
Veskrashen wrote:
As a Tau player, Deffrollas scare me. Especially if I'm playing foot gunline Tau. Without a lot of fusion (and a lot of Tau players haven't adapted to the need for lots of fusion on suits these days), he'll have a hard time stopping you. Frontal AV14 is hard to deal with when the majority of their long-range shots are S7 or S8. Dealing with 3-4 of those covered by a KFF is even more difficult - they'll only have so many Markerlights, and if they're negating your cover they're not boosting their BS as much. If they've got enough MLs to do both they don't have as many bodies or enough fusion.

Flat out turns 1-2, driving right up on top of their Aegis. Then angle appropriately and tank shock the snot out of them on turn 3 at the latest. With the massed foot tau behind Aegis theme, and as many S10 hits that a block of 3-4 Deffrollas can put out, that's a lot of squished troops. Not to mention the fact that any that do break are likely to run off the board.

Just a thought.


This is a good point. I rescind my previous comment, I think I actually would take a kff if I were running it up with 3+ battlewagons full of boyz/manz. In fact that seems like the best approach to me so far.

   
Made in ch
Flashy Flashgitz





What about the Tau overwatch capability?
I heard they do have many advantages now?
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Tau have a lot of overwatch shenanigans now. You cannot blindly charge at them unlike other gunlines.

Everything within 6" of the unit being charged (note, unit, meaning if this unit is a long string be very careful about charging it) can fire overwatch as though they were being charged.

If his gunline has no holes in it and its one big ball, charging it is a suicide mission. With the exception of 80+ boyz charging at once (unlikely to get that many that close giventhe number of pi plates they got now) anything charging when their entire army is in that 6" bubble is going to die horribly.

Markerlights also work in overwatch now and boost snapfires. If he has the upgrade some units fire at BS2 instead of BS1 by default. If he gets lucky he can expell enough markerlights to get a big gun at a good BS even in overwatch and wreck your guys, usually forcing them out of the charge.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in ch
Flashy Flashgitz





So the best thing to do is basically to roll on them :p
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Is a battle wagon av14 all around or just on the front? If it is just the front, what are they on the sides? If it hasn't got a high value on the sides/rear, I'm not so sure you can rely on it lasting long at all.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





California

14 12 10. I think. I don't have my codex with me at the moment.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Did a tourney today and faced the new tau with my tac list. I can't see it working anymore as my list without some drastic changes or allies. My list was mega armor warboss and weirdboy, two dakkajets, two battlewagons with 18 boys inside big shoota and nob with pk, another 10 man squad of boys, two 10 man squads of lootas a looted wagon with boom gun, 5 mega nobs with trukk, aegis with quad gun and gretchin to arm it. Game was over turn two as I had no models left on the board. Jets and a BW and trukk with mega nobs were in reserve. Missile sides basicly took out a entire squad of lootas each turn. bw got blown up to deepstriking suits, boys got fried by flamer he had an assasin and cortez with retinue the assasin popped in and flamed me and charged me. looted wagon shot down by the new MC it was just not pretty my reserves did not get to come in but even had I got them in I could not forsee pulling off a victory. Taking away cover just hurts orks allot. I guess I could go with more meganobs or some bikes but don't have the money for bikes and have a feeling investing in to many meganobs will hurt vs other opponents. So I guess it's probably allies or making my orks allies of another army. (not going to footslog 200 boys I don't want to paint and invest that much time in a playstyle that drives me crazy as half the games then only make it to turn 3 if you are lucky.)
   
Made in ch
Flashy Flashgitz





By the way, with this new Tau codex, what are the prior targets now?
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





Priority targets if you're facing Tau:

1. Whatever is carrying markerlights. In foot lists, this is generally Pathfinders, who will be in cover. They're only T3 5+ though, so go down quickly. If they're on Skyrays though, you don't have to worry about them as much - they only carry 2 each, and can't move if they want to fire them at full effect.

2. Any Ethereals, if he has them. They give LD10 bubbles and can throw out different buffs, so they can really change the character of a foot based army. They're only T3 with no save and 2 wounds, though, so go down quickly as long as you can get shots on the unit he's with.

3. Crisis teams of any kind. They may not be as big of a threat as some of the other stuff in the codex - Riptides for example - but they're only T4 2 wounds with a 3+ save. They go down fast to high S low AP shooting or volume of fire, assuming you can get LOS. They're one of the few places in the codex he can get specialty weapons, and killing them off means narrowing his ability to hurt you a great deal.

4. Infantry. Kill it dead, it's pretty weedy all things considered - especially if any Ethereals giving LD10 bubbles and other buffs are already dead.

Anything else can generally be ignored for the most part, so long as you're willing to take the hits. His Heavies and Riptides can do a number on you, but they only toss out so much firepower, and he can't win if you kill the above (generally). In addition, Riptides, Broadsides and any of the tanks are pretty tough to kill, so you've got to dedicate a lot of firepower to taking them down - which could be better used to hammer the stuff that goes down faster and counts more for most missions.
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




midlands UK

close combat, kill and smash

Blood Ravens, 1700pts

Empire 40 wounds

Astra Militarum 2250pts

Khorne 750pts

Space Wolves 1550pts

Orks 500pts

 
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian





Atlanta

+1 to get close and smash face. I recently played the new tau book at 2k and with 3 trukks, 2 deff rollin BWs, lootas, nob bikes, jet and a KFF nearly rolled him on Hammer and Anvil. Even with him going first the night fight let me get right up in his gunline turn 1. Turn 2 meant exploding trukks and glanced BWs but the boys were there and able to assault bottom of 2. I believe his list had 2 FW drone flyers, a dex flyer, FWs, krrot, Stealh, crisis and an ethereal. Oh and two seeker marker tanks. Those seekers cancelling cover is harsh but you can't let 20+ dead orks slow you down

My Sisters of Battle Thread
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/783053.page
 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




How the hell did you get that close because of night fighting mrwhoop? All of his suits, and all of his vehicles (unless he's crazy and ignores the 1 point upgrade) have night vision and ignore night fighting rules. Was he nothing but a foot army??

NYC Warmongers

2016 ATC Team Tournament Third Place Team: Tank You Very Much
2016 Golden Sprue Best Overall
2015 Templecon Best General
2014 Mechanicon Best General/Iron Man
2013 Mechanicon Best General  
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian





Atlanta

His list had 2 suit HQs, two skimmers with two seekers each, and then flyers coming in turn 2. Maybe my memory is off but he had 2 FW teams, 2 sniper drone units, 2 kroot teams, 2 stealth suit teams, flyer and 2 FW drone flyers (came in turn 2) etheral HQ, and two crisis suits/skimmers with sunfilter. He used what marker lights hit to seeker missile the BWs (nothing or glance) and the night fight gave cover against the other shooting on my side armor with a boosted KFF. So either he used them to not deny cover or didn't accomplish anything with what he did deny cover.

At least that's my recollection.

My Sisters of Battle Thread
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/783053.page
 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets






Having glanced over the rules recently I would concur with Speed and smash. Bikerz will give Tau a headache and that Riptide isn't scary in CC. Charge everything that could moev, I say.

One thing to note is their Overwatch. If memory serves, they can Overwatch any unit within 6" making a charge, whether it's on them or a friendly unit. Shame you can only Overwatch once per turn, isn't it (Unless you have Longstrike Hammerhead, he's scary). So, you throw a big tough scary unit at him, absorb as much Overwatch as possible, then charge everything else. Or you throw lots of Boyz at him. Lots and lots of Boyz at once.



Grimjaw's Doom Riderz - 1500pts, 98% WIP 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






Just wanted to correct your comment on the Skyray. It can move 6" and fire a markerlight at BS4. Others weapons will snap fire. Also, it can use its own marker lights to fire a missle at BS5.

The biggest tactic is to give it a disruption pod and hide it partially behind a ruin for a 3+ cover save. Also, if the need arises to move 12" then a good player will light up the target with other markerlights and use the Skyray's firing to hit with missles at bs5.

Outside of that barrage weapons on the foot soldiers hurt quite a bit.

Veskrashen wrote:
Priority targets if you're facing Tau:

1. Whatever is carrying markerlights. In foot lists, this is generally Pathfinders, who will be in cover. They're only T3 5+ though, so go down quickly. If they're on Skyrays though, you don't have to worry about them as much - they only carry 2 each, and can't move if they want to fire them at full effect.

2. Any Ethereals, if he has them. They give LD10 bubbles and can throw out different buffs, so they can really change the character of a foot based army. They're only T3 with no save and 2 wounds, though, so go down quickly as long as you can get shots on the unit he's with.

3. Crisis teams of any kind. They may not be as big of a threat as some of the other stuff in the codex - Riptides for example - but they're only T4 2 wounds with a 3+ save. They go down fast to high S low AP shooting or volume of fire, assuming you can get LOS. They're one of the few places in the codex he can get specialty weapons, and killing them off means narrowing his ability to hurt you a great deal.

4. Infantry. Kill it dead, it's pretty weedy all things considered - especially if any Ethereals giving LD10 bubbles and other buffs are already dead.

Anything else can generally be ignored for the most part, so long as you're willing to take the hits. His Heavies and Riptides can do a number on you, but they only toss out so much firepower, and he can't win if you kill the above (generally). In addition, Riptides, Broadsides and any of the tanks are pretty tough to kill, so you've got to dedicate a lot of firepower to taking them down - which could be better used to hammer the stuff that goes down faster and counts more for most missions.
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




 mrwhoop wrote:
His list had 2 suit HQs, two skimmers with two seekers each, and then flyers coming in turn 2. Maybe my memory is off but he had 2 FW teams, 2 sniper drone units, 2 kroot teams, 2 stealth suit teams, flyer and 2 FW drone flyers (came in turn 2) etheral HQ, and two crisis suits/skimmers with sunfilter. He used what marker lights hit to seeker missile the BWs (nothing or glance) and the night fight gave cover against the other shooting on my side armor with a boosted KFF. So either he used them to not deny cover or didn't accomplish anything with what he did deny cover.

At least that's my recollection.


Weird. All of the suits and skimmers (including stealth) should have had Night Vision, so they'd ignore Night Fighting rules. You get no Night Fighting based cover saves in that case when they are firing and they fire at full range.

My suspicion is that your opponent probably bungled their major turn 1 advantage by not understanding their rules/equipment.

NYC Warmongers

2016 ATC Team Tournament Third Place Team: Tank You Very Much
2016 Golden Sprue Best Overall
2015 Templecon Best General
2014 Mechanicon Best General/Iron Man
2013 Mechanicon Best General  
   
Made in gb
Deadly Tomb Guard





London, England

Might not be a favourite unit with some people but I'd maybe try a Kommando heavy force. Why go up against that much fire power when you can sneak in behind it?! Would draw attention away from other things and your opponent would have to deal with them as they would be in his face! One squad including Snikrot of course.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/30 04:47:36


DR:80S+G+M++B+I+Pwhfb92#-D++A++/cWD153R++T(M)DM+

Stick Damn You! - Painting, Modelling and Yodeling... 
   
Made in ch
Flashy Flashgitz





 Regnak wrote:
Might not be a favourite unit with some people but I'd maybe try a Kommando heavy force. Why go up against that much fire power when you can sneak in behind it?! Would draw attention away from other things and your opponent would have to deal with them as they would be in his face! One squad including Snikrot of course.


I actually LOVE Kommandos, even if they are not as much effective as in the past.
A 5-man unit with 2 flamers and Snikrot may draw a lot of attention, you are right Regnak.
   
Made in ch
Flashy Flashgitz





 Juvieus Kaine wrote:
One thing to note is their Overwatch. If memory serves, they can Overwatch any unit within 6" making a charge, whether it's on them or a friendly unit. Shame you can only Overwatch once per turn, isn't it (Unless you have Longstrike Hammerhead, he's scary). So, you throw a big tough scary unit at him, absorb as much Overwatch as possible, then charge everything else. Or you throw lots of Boyz at him. Lots and lots of Boyz at once.

You got it. Overwatch is the thing that is scaring me the most. Friendly units + the possibility to hit on 5+ makes them scary.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Take Zagstruk and stormboyz.

Deep strike in and assault a riptide or other key unit like an etherial or pathfinders on turn 2.

Laugh orkily.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/11/06 11:38:56


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I saw an interesting game the other night between local tau and orks players. The ork player allied in CSM (black legion i think) and ran just 2 units in rhinos with dirgecasters. He used these in conjunction with his wagons of boyz in order to deny some of the overwatch issues. The tau player had a lot of bad dice rolls and could only take 1 rhino out before it was too late. It was a vicious way of removing one of Tau's strengths albeit a risky one. In the end it was a fairly close game due to the riptide hitting the boyz after they slaughtered the fire warriors.
   
Made in ch
Flashy Flashgitz





Therefore, the key vs Tau could be BW and Zag?
What about MANZ in vehicles?
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

i wouldnt expect MANz to be that awesome since Tau have a lot of casual AP2, and riptides will paste them if they manage to get a pi plate on them.

Also in my experience, Zag is dumb. He has to deepstrike so close to your target due to 2D6 charge rather than 12" (for stormboyz in old rules) you are highly prone to mishap. Ive taken him + 10 boyz in about 15 games in a row insisting he work - hes actually gotten the charge once without mishap or without wiffing the charge, and it was T4 against a troop choice in the background (bad reserve rolls lol). I refuse to bring him now lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Bikers can work really great against Tau. Yes, they can get rid of your cover save, so you have to use them smart. With their 12" move and 12" charge range, they have the advantage of being able to stay outside of Rapid Fire range, and then move in and charge the following turn. Also, against Fire Warriors, they're only wounding on 3's and you get your 4+ armor, which is more survivable than most things in the codex. Bikers also give you a chance to catch Riptides and tie them up in Close Combat. Each of the times that I've done this, eventually the Bikers lost combat due to the smash attacks of the Riptide... but at the same time I tied him up for two full turns where it wasn't shooting anything.

Other than that... Battlewagons. The Tau that I've been playing load up on Riptides and Broadsides with missiles. It's really amusing how little they have that can do anything against Armor 14. I'd also say load up your Battlewagons with Boyz. You need numerical superiority against Tau. A Nob squad isn't going to have enough staying power against them. You need bodies.

The other strategy, as funny as it sounds, is to out-dakka them. This basically means Lootas, the Shokk Attack Gun, Artillery, and Boom Wagons. Keep the majority of your force away from the Fire Warriors and Pathfinders, and out-range them.

It's really an uphill battle for Orks. An all-comers Tau list is pretty much a hard-counter to just about everything we have to bring onto the battlefield.
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Washington, DC

Zag's 2d6 charge isn't so bad, as turn 2 is a great WAAAGH! turn anyway, which makes that rerollable. It's not a sure thing, but what orky tactic is?

The thing that's really messed with me is Tau suit HQs taking tons of markerlight drones, so he' becomes a ML platform that can assault move behind cover again. Dastardly!

I think a trick may be going all-in on one strategy. Tau benefit from having a lot of tools in their bag, having different weapons and units to deal with different types of threats. So if you present a mixed threat, tau can prioritize targets and take you down. But if you go all out footslogging, or all out battlewagons, something in the tau army will be suboptimal.

Check out my gathering Waaagh! of drunken orks: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/559908.page 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






my ork list is now,

24 bikers, 2 bik bosses with Pks,

3 battle wagons, 20 boys each,
1 trukk, full of boys,
30 shootas,

17 grots

I would love to try it against tau... 72 S+C boys + 26 bikes must die in one turn, or they are in combat the 2nd...

so far, with the lack of av 14 being in the meta, I have only lost one BW turn one, against grav spam centurions,

would love to see how it does against tau, they seem to have less anti av 14 right now.. I dont even SEE broad sides anymore

 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

 easysauce wrote:
my ork list is now,

24 bikers, 2 bik bosses with Pks,

3 battle wagons, 20 boys each,
1 trukk, full of boys,
30 shootas,

17 grots

I would love to try it against tau... 72 S+C boys + 26 bikes must die in one turn, or they are in combat the 2nd...

so far, with the lack of av 14 being in the meta, I have only lost one BW turn one, against grav spam centurions,

would love to see how it does against tau, they seem to have less anti av 14 right now.. I dont even SEE broad sides anymore


Woah...I don't face Tau without there being 6 Broadsides...haha.

Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: