Secret Weapon Tablescapes - Kickstarter ended @ $311k

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**H.B.M.C.**

No curved roads for simple turns?

**Theophony**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
No curved roads for simple turns?

In the 41 millennium they're are no simple turns

**shade1313**

misterjustin wrote:
Yeah, the new 4x4' table layout will allow you to have 4 central foundation tiles surrounded by a block of streets. Of course you can still go absolutely nuts....

Get to the trenches, desert, and temple, and I guarantee "absolutely nuts".

**CptJake**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
No curved roads for simple turns?

Many modern cities are set up as a grid so won't really have a lot of curves...

**Makaleth**

CptJake wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
No curved roads for simple turns?

Many modern cities are set up as a grid so won't really have a lot of curves...

I for one wish there was one simple 90 degree turn.
There are enough 4 way tiles.

**plastictrees**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
No curved roads for simple turns?

Super excited that the clean streets are coming together. Exactly the sort of thing I didn't know I was looking for!
Now I just need to start playing the games I want to use it for.

**misterjustin**

HA! Yeah, no 90* road - we pulled that as soon as I saw the concept. It's too limiting on the table and would have a major impact on the tiles around it. It's not just the turn but what happens on all 4 sides of it that we have to consider.

At this point the 16 tile set will include only 1/ea of the specialty tiles to make room for 2 more foundations. This could still change, of course, but that's the plan today.

New concept art is coming tonight - and I spent time on the phone with the 3D designer today going over specifics for scale, measurement, etc.

**shade1313**

misterjustin wrote:
HA! Yeah, no 90* road - we pulled that as soon as I saw the concept. It's too limiting on the table and would have a major impact on the tiles around it. It's not just the turn but what happens on all 4 sides of it that we have to consider.

At this point the 16 tile set will include only 1/ea of the specialty tiles to make room for 2 more foundations. This could still change, of course, but that's the plan today.

New concept art is coming tonight - and I spent time on the phone with the 3D designer today going over specifics for scale, measurement, etc.

Good, because the next couple of backers are going to bring us to the magic "clean streets" number.

**Kroothawk**

120k reached.

**Snrub**

Your quick Kroot... Very quick. Anyway, 121.2k reached.

Also another update. This one dealing with pledge managment. There are pictures on the KS page.

~~~~~

New Pledge Levels & Pledge Management

I have received a number of requests to add new pledge levels for folks wanting four (or more!) full tile sets... and I'd be a fool to say no, so they're posted now. These are, however, limited to 100 pledges as they STILL include international shipping with the price... and it's going to be a pricey set! Check out the pledge list for "Double Wargamer" and "Double Wargamer Deluxe" -- both offer a savings over adding additional tile sets via the add-on menu.

Speaking of add-on items, I have also received a lot of messages asking me how to increase pledges to reflect those additions -- and a brief walk-through follows. Note that we are working on a pledge manager, and the add-on items will also be available there when we close up the campaign and get that working.

1. Click on the "Manage Your Pledge" button

2. Total up your reward plus the cost of any add-on items and enter the total on in the pledge amount box.

For instance if you want the "Skirmisher" pledge ($150) and a set of 25mm bases ($9) you would enter $159. If you want an extra set of walls ($158) you would make your pledge $317.00 ($150+9+158).

3. Click "Continue to next step" and complete the pledge verification.

And that's it! My thanks to everyone that has been asking for ways to pledge more money -- every little bit gets us closer and closer to the new themes!

**Alpharius**

I'm excited by this project, but... I'm thinking it might be better to wait for the retail release?

There are no incentives for getting one now, other than a slight price break if you managed to grab an early bird.

All the stretch goals are for unlocking themes - there are no extras for anyone who has already pledged - no scatter terrain, etc.

The price can't be too much higher at retail - as already noted.

And the money tied up here might be better served for me, at least, in other Kickstarters.

I guess I'm wondering if there is, or will be, any real reason to stay in this one?

This project is doing very well, and I won't be missed!

**Joyboozer**

If nobody stays in none will be funded so retail will be a long wait.

**plastictrees**

Alpharius wrote:
I'm excited by this project, but... I'm thinking it might be better to wait for the retail release?

There are no incentives for getting one now, other than a slight price break if you managed to grab an early bird.

All the stretch goals are for unlocking themes - there are no extras for anyone who has already pledged - no scatter terrain, etc.

The price can't be too much higher at retail - as already noted.

And the money tied up here might be better served for me, at least, in other Kickstarters.

I guess I'm wondering if there is, or will be, any real reason to stay in this one?

This project is doing very well, and I won't be missed!

I will send you a drawing of a Jotum dancing with a Raicho if you keep your pledge in. There's an extra for you!

**Moopy**

Reminds me of the zBrush tutorial I studied.

http://eat3d.com/free

Go to: zBrush tileable textures

**Alpharius**

plastictrees wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
I'm excited by this project, but... I'm thinking it might be better to wait for the retail release?

There are no incentives for getting one now, other than a slight price break if you managed to grab an early bird.

All the stretch goals are for unlocking themes - there are no extras for anyone who has already pledged - no scatter terrain, etc.

The price can't be too much higher at retail - as already noted.

And the money tied up here might be better served for me, at least, in other Kickstarters.

I guess I'm wondering if there is, or will be, any real reason to stay in this one?

This project is doing very well, and I won't be missed!

I will send you a drawing of a Jotum dancing with a Raicho if you keep your pledge in. There's an extra for you!

I might have to take you up on that...

**MajorTom11**

Alpharius wrote:
I'm excited by this project, but... I'm thinking it might be better to wait for the retail release?

There are no incentives for getting one now, other than a slight price break if you managed to grab an early bird.

All the stretch goals are for unlocking themes - there are no extras for anyone who has already pledged - no scatter terrain, etc.

The price can't be too much higher at retail - as already noted.

And the money tied up here might be better served for me, at least, in other Kickstarters.

I guess I'm wondering if there is, or will be, any real reason to stay in this one?

This project is doing very well, and I won't be missed!

Well first if you intend to buy at all at any point, you are only giving yourself more options staying in, and also unlocking more scatter terrain and other things for your chosen theme if it continues to do well. There will also be a good chunk of extras that will have a bit of a discount built in too... The more this succeeds the more options we will all have, and that's a good thing to me! I will let Justin answer more specifically though as it is indeed important to address this -

**Mathieu Raymond**

Personally, if I were to go in for a 6' X 4' table, that's 190$, compared to RoB boards clocking in at 348$. Don't tell me the bag is worth that much...

**Snrub**

The bag is worth that much. It really truely is. They wouldn't lie to us about a thing like that. Honestly they wouldn't.

I think i'll stay in on this just to grab myself a cheap board to play on. Even if i only end up getting a basic one. As Mathieu pointed out, $190 compared to $350 is hard to pass up and lets not forget that the $190 *INCLUDES SHIPPING TOO*.

**decker_cky**

I'm guessing that compared to post-KS, there might be more scatter terrain, and you'll have to factor in shipping (and taxes I suppose). It's also a real rather than artificial exchange rate, which can be an advantage (looking at you GW).

Time is another factor, as these boards mean you'll likely get these before anyone else (though the potential delay for some of the later boards is disconcerting.

**Makaleth**

misterjustin wrote:
HA! Yeah, no 90* road - we pulled that as soon as I saw the concept. It's too limiting on the table and would have a major impact on the tiles around it. It's not just the turn but what happens on all 4 sides of it that we have to consider.

At this point the 16 tile set will include only 1/ea of the specialty tiles to make room for 2 more foundations. This could still change, of course, but that's the plan today.

Fair enough. If it is offered as an option I will get it later

Super pumped for this and the Trench Works

**H.B.M.C.**

I'd think the cross roads would cause more problems than a simpel 90 degree curve. The 90 degree curve only has two possible places roads can go (assuming one edge isn't the table edge). With cross roads (and t-junctions) you have to consider all four ways in, and if you have enough roads to lead from it/end caps.

**Snrub**

Update #17. Pictures on the KS page.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1084069684/tablescapes-by-secret-weapon-miniatures/posts

Stretch Goal #1 - New Pledge Level - NEW PRODUCT!
Update #17 · Apr 16, 2013 · 4 comments

And we've done it! The first stretch-goal of $120,000 has been passed!

This means we've unlocked the clean "Urban Streets" tile set - AND a new product and pledge level. If you check the rewards you will now see a "Display Board" level, which will give you a 4 tile set from any of the unlocked themes. Before you ask, yes, we're working on a border frame for it... but I can't promise it yet. I spent time on the phone with the factory today though working out what it would cost and how it would work.

I will have updated concept art for the clean "Urban Streets" art to post on Wednesday, and I'm waiting on renders for the "Scrap Yard" display board, and so in the interim I'll give you this quick and dirty rendition of the "Urban Streets" display board tiles -- two straights, and two foundations, to give you plenty of room for infantry and vehicles alike!

We've come a long way and made a lot of changes -- but all for the better. We're already well on the way to unlocking the damaged "Urban Streets" tiles, which will give you THREE options for that tile set: all "clean" tiles, all damaged tiles, or a mix of the two sets.

The files for the "Scrap Yard" tiles should be off to the factory before the end of the month (we're doing some final clean-up) which means we'll be milling before the Kickstarter campaign closes... and ahead of schedule!

Once again my thanks go out to everyone that has been so active in the comments -- your feedback has helped to make this a better campaign, and a better product line.

And now I'm going to finish packing and try to get some sleep before I leave for Adepticon. The prototype tile will be on display at "On the Lamb Games" so stop by if you'd like to see a sample of the actual product!

Quick question MisterJustin. How wide is the footpath?

**Azazelx**

Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Personally, if I were to go in for a 6' X 4' table, that's 190$, compared to RoB boards clocking in at 348$. Don't tell me the bag is worth that much...

It's a good price if you were considering buying a ROB board. But let's be honest - a lot of us aren't and wouldn't be even considering buying a ROB. So there's (at least) 2 distinct groups we're looking at here in those who might otherwise buy a ROB and those who are not. I'm on a similar fence to Alph, but not so I can give the money to other kickstarters, but on the relative value/use to me personally on dropping $250-500 on stuff that won't be delivered for up to 2 years versus spending the same on other stuff that already exists. (and I notice that most of my spending now is on a mix of 2nd-hand stuff and smaller "indie" companies that aren't a lot unlike SWM.

The other thing of course, is I've blindly bought into a few other Kickstarters run by other guys who are super-nice, really communicative, etc that have turned out to be, mildly put, disappointing in terms of communication and output afterwards. The "generic dirt" borders mentioned around each tile give me a bit of a cause for concern. I'd rather have a non-ruined alien temple not bound by generic dirt at 10" intervals - and so on. While Justin is suggesting 2 years as a realistic deadline, we're now in a position where we get shouted at if we gripe at a delay, and to "it's kickstarter - you should just expect 6 month+ delays."

**Alpharius**

Uh yeah, first and foremost, my 'concern' was over the value of staying in now when it would appear that waiting until this product was actually available at retail would get us a product that is exactly the same without having tied up funds waiting for something that might even end up delayed.

Not saying it will be, but history suggests it may very well be!

**Azazelx**

uh-huh

**Ignatius-Grulgor**

Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Personally, if I were to go in for a 6' X 4' table, that's 190$, compared to RoB boards clocking in at 348$. Don't tell me the bag is worth that much...

While that may be the case in Canada for UK customers it's not uncommon for our webstores to have 25-30% off every so often, that means the Realm of Battle is £122.50-£131.25 if you get it from the right places and that as you noted comes with the bag. It's ~£124.56 for a 6'x4' board at the current prices in the kickstarter, which means I'm going to have to have a rethink especially when those FW tiles keep getting tempting and won't require messing around so much for compatibility, I don't doubt it's still a great product though, I just wish it were a little cheaper. If I played a different system that probably might help too...

**Polonius**

Alpharius wrote:
Uh yeah, first and foremost, my 'concern' was over the value of staying in now when it would appear that waiting until this product was actually available at retail would get us a product that is exactly the same without having tied up funds waiting for something that might even end up delayed.

Not saying it will be, but history suggests it may very well be!

I'm thinking the same thing myself: not to be greedy or cynical, but why pay the same (or damn near the same) price now when I can wait, see the finished product, and make decision then? In 6+ months and with $225 in my pocket, I can probably make a pretty sweet gaming table...

I'm still pledged, I'm just having second thoughts.

**misterjustin**

I'm glad I checked in before my flight to Adepticon!

Regarding the "why now" question - as it has come up in other places as well - the answer is simple:

Without the Kickstarter pledges there will be no product.

This is not a pre-order gimmick like so many Kickstarters are these days. And I didn't ask for $20k when I needed $150k -- I asked for $80k to cover the tooling costs, and only the tooling costs, when I needed $150k. I'm still on the hook for the design, production, and shipping on every single pledge. But Secret Weapon can absorb that as part of the long-term plan to bring this product to market.

So what do you get if you pledge now? More options. The Kickstarter funding is going entirely to new mold tools. If we don't unlock a theme in the Kickstarter it will still come to market... eventually. It will probably take me a couple of years to get caught up to that point though and have the full cost of the launch ready.

No gimmicks, no smoke-and-mirriors, and because of that I can't give you $5 in product for every $1 that you pledge. I realize that this breaks the new Kickstarter paradigm, but I'm old school crazy like that

--------------------

I did catch a question about the urban tiles - the sidewalks are presently being modeled 2" wide (50mm ) which leave us an 8" road -- enough to fit two Chimeras side-by-side... if only just.

I'll try to check in again before or during Adepticon... but in five hours things are going to get really, really crazy for me.

Let me leave these here though....

**Polonius**

misterjustin wrote:

No gimmicks, no smoke-and-mirriors, and because of that I can't give you $5 in product for every $1 that you pledge. I realize that this breaks the new Kickstarter paradigm, but I'm old school crazy like that

I'll be at adepticon, so I can heckle you about this in person (and show you the porno demon on your runic mountain base I did).

I see your point, and I agree that you need early adopters. I think that you can create something relatively low cost as a bonus to Kickstarter pledges. My idea? A set of 40mm objective markers, designed to match the board you buy. That way, you can unwrap the board, and immedialy have matching objectives. It's a low cost item without a ton of sculpting time (especially if you reuse a base), but it adds a lot of value to the user.

**misterjustin**

I am actually considering something like that -- and if I can make it work it will certainly happen. Now if we break $500k or so then I'll probably go nuts and give away bases, objective markers, or other resin goodies -- but right now I'm still balancing each new pledge against the costs I'll be liable for. It's quite the tightrope walk!