Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Btw people forgot that you can buy disruption pods for Hammerheads and devilfish for like 15 points?

meaning you have a auto 4+ cover save, and 3+ if you flatout.
I think thats a good way of survival for a troop transport. ( at least with 12/11/10 AV, and the hammer head have 13/12/10 IIRC )

 Captain Avatar wrote:

So, we did not get a means of putting scoring units effectively on our opponents rear objectives. This right here is a massive issue that was made worse by removing our vehicles ability to fire as if they were fast. Yes, markerlights can now help with snap shots but this just adds to the over reliance on certain units/wargear issue.
Tau not getting a fast troop delivery method(Fast transport, Deep Strikers or jet-pack troops) leaves the Tau at a distinct disadvantage in over half of the missions.

Next, As to getting scoring units on the back objectives??? I suggest Jet-bike Eldar or Drop Pod SM's because the Tau are "not a complete army". Instead of putting the work into developing a proper and full codex we got 2/3's of a codex at full codex price. The failure to drop the points on our transports, no new fast transport/flier transport and not to even attempt to move unused units to more fitting areas of the FOC just comes across as lazy

Like CSM have SOOO many options for getting their troops into the enemy deployment zone?
Devilfish are just as fast as rhinos(and a lot more suriviable)

O wait, Tau have Kroot! Infiltrating troops, my god you can have a hundred of them.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Danny Internets wrote:

 Captain Avatar wrote:
Not enough VoF in the long range S8-10 to effectively counter prevalent IG

lolwut? Since when do you need S8-10 to counter 50-man blob squads?

This sounds like a lot of complaining for complaining's sake.

He's talking about their tanks.

Still plenty of fusion to go around

You don't need to spam S10 to kill the one Leman Russ that your IG opponent probably isn't fielding anyway. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone use an IG vehicle with an armor value higher than 12.

I think what's possibly being overlooked is not the ability to kill AV14 vehicles, but the ability to take down multi-wound T5 creatures in one shot. And while massed other fire may do the trick, there's a significant difference between trusting a unit of broadsides to handle one MC and focusing the rest of the army on other incoming threats, and having to rely on the whole army to handle that one MC, letting the other stuff get close.

 Redbeard wrote:
I think what's possibly being overlooked is not the ability to kill AV14 vehicles, but the ability to take down multi-wound T5 creatures in one shot. And while massed other fire may do the trick, there's a significant difference between trusting a unit of broadsides to handle one MC and focusing the rest of the army on other incoming threats, and having to rely on the whole army to handle that one MC, letting the other stuff get close.

What multi-wound T5 creatures do you really need to instantkill though? I really dont think FMCs will threaten Tau at all. RoF will cause grounding checks and wounds and then you simply need them to fail marine saves. And T5 isnt very formidable, the average Tau gun wounds it on a 4+.

I'd be much more afraid of a list that maxed out Hounds/Seekers and brought some Crushers/Fiends than one that brought any FMCs.

LValx wrote:

What multi-wound T5 creatures do you really need to instantkill though? I really dont think FMCs will threaten Tau at all. RoF will cause grounding checks and wounds and then you simply need them to fail marine saves. And T5 isnt very formidable, the average Tau gun wounds it on a 4+.

I'd be much more afraid of a list that maxed out Hounds/Seekers and brought some Crushers/Fiends than one that brought any FMCs.

Volume of fire could be quite ineffective when you have 4-5 FMCs on the table...

LValx wrote:

What multi-wound T5 creatures do you really need to instantkill though? I really dont think FMCs will threaten Tau at all. RoF will cause grounding checks and wounds and then you simply need them to fail marine saves. And T5 isnt very formidable, the average Tau gun wounds it on a 4+.

I don't think it's necessarily about one threat, it's about losing the tool that allows you to deal with multiple threats. I've seen a lot of lists with 3 daemon princes plus a lord of change or bloodthirster. The S10 gun would let you neutralize one or two of them with one or two of your units, allowing the S5 massed fire to go to work on the T6 guy.

Other T5 multi-wound stuff might include such units as Grotesques and Claw Fiends from DE, units of plague drones, chaos spawn, ogryns, nurgle-marked obliterators, nob bikers (and warbosses on foot), most necron lords, and a couple of tyranid things. Given that the S10 not only doubles them out, it also denies their FNP, the S8 gun is considerably less efficient against these units.

Yeah, but a few single Str10 weapons aren't particularly effective at killing an FMC. It has to hit, wound and then hope an invuln fails. Those Str10 weapons are also fairly useless against many different lists being used in the meta. At most of the tournies i've been to in 6th, i've seen a big change towards masses of infantry which Str10 is incredibly ineffective against. I think RoF from new Broadsides is far more effective at killing a wide variety of targets, so i'd much rather have that.

I wouldn't even take the Str8 weapon. The Str7 missiles should provide enough weight of fire to bring down just about any targets. And that is precisely what i've experienced in testing them out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

LValx wrote:

What multi-wound T5 creatures do you really need to instantkill though? I really dont think FMCs will threaten Tau at all. RoF will cause grounding checks and wounds and then you simply need them to fail marine saves. And T5 isnt very formidable, the average Tau gun wounds it on a 4+.

I'd be much more afraid of a list that maxed out Hounds/Seekers and brought some Crushers/Fiends than one that brought any FMCs.

Volume of fire could be quite ineffective when you have 4-5 FMCs on the table...

You don't have to kill all of them and that is what bubble wrapping units are for (Kroot or in my opinion Orks). Also, if your opponent brings 4-5 MCs he really doesnt have room for much of anything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It'll take a Daemon Prince a very long time to chew through ~30 Ork Boyz. And i'll be glad to hold up a 250+ PT model with my Orks while the rest of my list can fire at troops.

I think the Flying Circus is a gimmicky list that should only fare well vs elite model armies. My Tau list brings 134 infantry models.

I dunno, a unit of 3 S10 broadsides w/ skyfire, would expect to down a 5++ FMC each turn.

3 shots * 3/4 hits * 5/6 wounds * 2/3 failed saves = 5/4.

As for the ork bubblewrap, that's a gamble that I'd take if I were playing the MC list. I'd hit the orks with all my MCs at the same time, hope to kill half of them, and keep them fearless at the end of my turn. Your turn, you're not shooting and, I kill enough more that they lose fearless and break. My turn, I'm out of combat and start charging your units. I'm sure it's slightly more complicated to get the exact numbers down, and might involve a little pre-fight shooting to make sure the odds are stacked my way.

I can ...almost... sympathize with the OP as I've seen DE players get hit hard by 6th. No assaulting out of reserves and, overwatch meant that if you built one of those Grotesque or Wych heavy assault lists with Webway portals you basically wasted several hundred dollars (if you enjoy winning).

Soo thankful I got my DE bargain private sale and, after 6th was released. So if the OP was Broadside heavy he might of lost some shooting punch but, the counter to the OP is this; the Tau got a LOT better in a lot more ways than they got nerfed.

 Hollowman wrote:

I was looking it over, and it appears the entire range of IG tanks are ALREADY terrible, apart from the Hellhound. They all follow the same restrictions you are so upset about being applied to your Tau, whom you apparently feel are supposed to be Eldar.

I don't expect Tau to be Eldar, I expect them to be Tau. I don't expect them to be IG. It's not so hard to follow, is it?

 Redbeard wrote:
I dunno, a unit of 3 S10 broadsides w/ skyfire, would expect to down a 5++ FMC each turn.

3 shots * 3/4 hits * 5/6 wounds * 2/3 failed saves = 5/4.

As for the ork bubblewrap, that's a gamble that I'd take if I were playing the MC list. I'd hit the orks with all my MCs at the same time, hope to kill half of them, and keep them fearless at the end of my turn. Your turn, you're not shooting and, I kill enough more that they lose fearless and break. My turn, I'm out of combat and start charging your units. I'm sure it's slightly more complicated to get the exact numbers down, and might involve a little pre-fight shooting to make sure the odds are stacked my way.

That unit would cost an arm and a leg and I dont think T5 multiwounders are common enough to make it worth it. And what is the point of talking about Str10 skyfire broadsides. Clearly they would be beyond broken but not because of fmcs/plaguedrones/etc, but rather because they would make Heldrakes and Stormravens terrible. No point in being upset that something that would really hurt game balance wasn't introduced.

And there is no way all 5 fmcs live to assault one squad. With the amount of shots I pack I could comfortably kill 2-3 in a turn assuming average dice. My list packs quite a bit of shooting and most of it is designed to waste infantry.

LValx wrote:

That unit would cost an arm and a leg

270 points, using old-codex broadsides + velocity trackers. If they kill one FMC, they pretty much make those points back. Or one landraider for that matter.

And what is the point of talking about Str10 skyfire broadsides.

Well, this is a thread based around discussion of what Tau didn't get and/or lost in this codex. Seems like the ideal place to talk about such things.

Clearly they would be beyond broken but not because of fmcs/plaguedrones/etc, but rather because they would make Heldrakes and Stormravens terrible.

Wait, so a helldrake, which pretty much makes any 3+ save unit terrible, would be totally undone by one army having an answer to it? One even without interceptor, so these flying dragons could still roast a unit, possibly making their points back, before being shot down? I think you overstate the impact that a unit that can kill an already unbalanced model might have on the game.

Anyway, they didn't get them, so it's moot. But to me, the loss of T5 instant-killing feels more significant than the loss of S10 on armour.

 Redbeard wrote:

LValx wrote:

That unit would cost an arm and a leg

270 points, using old-codex broadsides + velocity trackers. If they kill one FMC, they pretty much make those points back. Or one landraider for that matter.

And what is the point of talking about Str10 skyfire broadsides.

Well, this is a thread based around discussion of what Tau didn't get and/or lost in this codex. Seems like the ideal place to talk about such things.

Clearly they would be beyond broken but not because of fmcs/plaguedrones/etc, but rather because they would make Heldrakes and Stormravens terrible.

Wait, so a helldrake, which pretty much makes any 3+ save unit terrible, would be totally undone by one army having an answer to it? One even without interceptor, so these flying dragons could still roast a unit, possibly making their points back, before being shot down? I think you overstate the impact that a unit that can kill an already unbalanced model might have on the game.

Anyway, they didn't get them, so it's moot. But to me, the loss of T5 instant-killing feels more significant than the loss of S10 on armour.

I do think str 10 AP1 with Skyfire on multiwound 2+ models would be OP. One flyby from a Heldrake doesnt do much damage if a player properly deploys and spreads. Tau can also ally with most everyone so I think if it were available you'd see a ton of them to combat Drakes/Vendettas/Ravens. I think that it would be just a little too good. I think loss of Str10 but access to Str8/7 Skyfire is good enough.

Veskrashen wrote:

milo wrote:

 winterman wrote:

FW Devil fish in reserve + pathfinder unit with recon drone gets within 6" of a side edge near opponent objective = profit. In other words a psudeo outflank option that no other army has.

And if I read the rules correctly, you can have your recon drone in your own corner, within six inches of one of the table sides, and bring a unit with outflank in from anywhere along that table edge, including your opponents deployment zone (provided you enter from that table side). Talk about unexpected. You'll get a lot of side armor and rear armor shots with that.

That's... pretty dang evil, actually. You could even chain a second recon drone through near the opponent's back edge, and get stuff coming in off the back side of the table as well. Very nice catch.

Nope. You have to be near the board edge you want to come in on. Re-read the entry.

This thread surprises me. The OP seems to be concerned with things that I dont think are going to CHANGE the fundamental way the Tau opeated. It WILL make every FOC an intersting discussion.

Tau ALAYS used Markerlights. PLaying without them is fine but, why do that to yourself? You already needed the Fish's for troops anyways. I am surprised this "reliance" on Markerlights is an issue to anyone. I'm not even sure you actually need that MANY of them to make the army function. You only NEED a few. That you can have many more is cool though.

You'll note that we can't spam STr 10... But now we can spam (and cheaper) STR 7!!! Like all day long. ALL day long. Unless the enemy is playing with 0 Land Raiders, we can handle one with meltas. So spamming STR 7 and not having things blow up on us sounds kina good. enemy transports are going to be toast. Everything BUT a LandRaider is going to be toast. So what's the gripe? What, you have to fire a DIFFERENT gun to get the same result and this bothers you? Come now, did you notice we pay less for Broadsides also? The loss of A.S.S. was a surpise though.

Getting to the back of the enemy deployment is done with Kroot. Are you not aware of Kroot? Or you jut hate them and wouldn't use them? If so thats kinda on you, not the codex. The Kroot with Hounds and Krootox is a formidable unit now with some neat tactical tricks you can do (I call it the yo-yo) wih the hounds. Until 6E I always had two units. Now I probably will again after a bit of testing. Can't say for sure yet but they look good, and they look necessary in some ways.

I wont ever say the Devilfish should be that expensive. I agree there. I was fairly shocked when I saw its price. But then, Burst Cannons and Missiles are better too, so... They kinda got better for the same price which isn't the worst it could have been. The loss of Multitrackers effect was a head scratcher though. Kinda wierd, Kinda not awesome. But the drone thing and/or twin linking makes up for that somewhat. but not totally. I agree. Shoulda shaved 10 points off those or so.

I am seeing a bright side to this, personally.

 McNinja wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:

milo wrote:

 winterman wrote:

FW Devil fish in reserve + pathfinder unit with recon drone gets within 6" of a side edge near opponent objective = profit. In other words a psudeo outflank option that no other army has.

And if I read the rules correctly, you can have your recon drone in your own corner, within six inches of one of the table sides, and bring a unit with outflank in from anywhere along that table edge, including your opponents deployment zone (provided you enter from that table side). Talk about unexpected. You'll get a lot of side armor and rear armor shots with that.

That's... pretty dang evil, actually. You could even chain a second recon drone through near the opponent's back edge, and get stuff coming in off the back side of the table as well. Very nice catch.

Nope. You have to be near the board edge you want to come in on. Re-read the entry.

What he means is, you have two pathfinder units with recon drones. One you deploy in your zone at either edge. When you roll for outflank you bring the second pathfinder team with recon drone on the board anywhere along the table edge your first team is, that point just happens to be across the table and withing 6 inches of the enemy table edge. You now have a recon drone within 6 inches of the back table edge and your other outflanking units can come on the field anywhere along the back edge.

Stealth suits, Crisis teams lead by Shadowsun, Kroot, other Pathfinders and Firewarriors lead by Darkstrider are the only ones who can abuse it though :/

 Jancoran wrote:
I wont ever say the Devilfish should be that expensive. I agree there. I was fairly shocked when I saw its price. But then, Burst Cannons and Missiles are better too, so... They kinda got better for the same price which isn't the worst it could have been. The loss of Multitrackers effect was a head scratcher though. Kinda wierd, Kinda not awesome. But the drone thing and/or twin linking makes up for that somewhat. but not totally. I agree. Shoulda shaved 10 points off those or so.

Stuff like this confuses me with several of the new 6th ed books, most notably the Daemons. They make all kinds of changes to justify a points cost, whether cheaper or more expensive, without actually fixing a unit. So yes, the Devilfish got better weapons that GW must think justifies its point cost. But that doesn't make it any better at being a transport, especially when most of the time it can't use them to great effect.

Similar things are when they make units substantially worse (like the Hammerhead) but "balance" it by making them cheaper. Cheap isn't always the solution! I will gladly pay more points for more effectiveness, but I can't do that if they take units and make them less effective for less points with no mitigating factors. You can still only take 3 of them, after all. This seems to be GW's new design philosophy as a whole, especially evident with how they changed Daemon troops, but it's pretty worrying to me.

Nonetheless, one must admit...the Devilfish IS better for its points. So I mean... lets face it Devilfishs weren'tthe centerpiece of any offensive the Tau ever mounted other than insofar as GETTING the REAL threat to its destination. those extra shots are BETTER when coming from Piranhas now anyways. Do some math. straight up Piranhas are stupidly awesome price. No meltas. Just Burst Cannons and the Drones. GREAT price. So save your points on the Devilfish's and put them on the Piranhas. You know you wanna.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

Stuff like this confuses me with several of the new 6th ed books, most notably the Daemons. They make all kinds of changes to justify a points cost, whether cheaper or more expensive, without actually fixing a unit. So yes, the Devilfish got better weapons that GW must think justifies its point cost. But that doesn't make it any better at being a transport, especially when most of the time it can't use them to great effect.

Similar things are when they make units substantially worse (like the Hammerhead) but "balance" it by making them cheaper. Cheap isn't always the solution! I will gladly pay more points for more effectiveness, but I can't do that if they take units and make them less effective for less points with no mitigating factors. You can still only take 3 of them, after all.

Yeah, this was irks me, people keep gushing "but Hammerhead is so cheap now!" But it doesn't matter how cheap it is since it's limited by FOC. It's not same thing at all like it was with Chimera or Razorback price drop because those units you could spam in response to their cheaper cost.

In the old book you could take Hammerhead as cheap but basic, or fully-kitted but expensive. (usually, fully kitted was more effective). Now, you can take it cheap but basic. So the new book has actually less options here. It's same thing with some other things, like new Suit armoury, or in larger scheme of things, Markerlights. You didn't have to play previous book with loads of Markerlights. You could, and they were often very effective, but they weren't mandatory. I like Markerlight mechanic, but I don't like to be force-fed things.

I don't agree with all this 'Hammerheads suck' crap, I actually think you are more likely to take them than before, In the previous Tau Codex, Broadsides could do a better job than the hammerhead for much cheaper, and now they can't do that, you need something that can to fill that gap, And whilst Broadsides aren't terrible, for me they do a job that my Crisis can already do efficiently enough, this allows me to fill my heavy support with the High AV AT that I need, which Hammerheads can provide. Also, Hammerheads are BS4 so they hit 2/3rds of the time, and whilst that isn't overall reliable with 1 shot (Believe me I know! ) The increase of Markerlights means you can light up a tank to hit on a 2+ or remove the cover, you can also look at Longstrike, who is brilliant for Anti Tank, beig BS5 and having tank hunters, as well as this, the support weapons like the SMS got much better, Whilst the Hammerhead was a great movable option in the previous codex, you're making it sound like you can't move at all, you can still move 6" and fire the Railgun with no Issues, and it's still one of the best high AV anti tank options in the game, you just now need to look elsewhere to broadsides to get good Anti Armour.

In my list I'm going to run 3 Hammerheads, 2 With Railguns and 1 With Ion Cannons, they are versatile enough to dish out high S Pie plates as well as take on armour, they're pretty cheap too compared to their IG counterparts, and I don't think they will die too auickly either, glancing hits can't stop your railgun from shooting anymore, which was the biggest pain and mech is still viable in 6th, and is still a great build, you will see people switching to infanty for their meta, but that further helps a mech army to prosper as melta is replaced by Plasma and less Power fists ar taken as well as Disruption pods being really useful when combined with night fightig, fortifications or ruins to provide a good cover save.

To sum up, Hammerheads aren't useless, they've just changed, and whilst this was quite a chunk to read (and i wouldn't blame you for ignoring it, given yor anti-new Tau views) you will discover that they aren't that bad, and I myself really like the new Tau book, the only issue i find with it is where the source of my markerlights will come from!

Miri wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:

milo wrote:

 winterman wrote:

FW Devil fish in reserve + pathfinder unit with recon drone gets within 6" of a side edge near opponent objective = profit. In other words a psudeo outflank option that no other army has.

And if I read the rules correctly, you can have your recon drone in your own corner, within six inches of one of the table sides, and bring a unit with outflank in from anywhere along that table edge, including your opponents deployment zone (provided you enter from that table side). Talk about unexpected. You'll get a lot of side armor and rear armor shots with that.

That's... pretty dang evil, actually. You could even chain a second recon drone through near the opponent's back edge, and get stuff coming in off the back side of the table as well. Very nice catch.

Nope. You have to be near the board edge you want to come in on. Re-read the entry.

What he means is, you have two pathfinder units with recon drones. One you deploy in your zone at either edge. When you roll for outflank you bring the second pathfinder team with recon drone on the board anywhere along the table edge your first team is, that point just happens to be across the table and withing 6 inches of the enemy table edge. You now have a recon drone within 6 inches of the back table edge and your other outflanking units can come on the field anywhere along the back edge.

Stealth suits, Crisis teams lead by Shadowsun, Kroot, other Pathfinders and Firewarriors lead by Darkstrider are the only ones who can abuse it though :/

Sorry, I think I misread his post. However, Recon Drones also have Homing Beacons, so you could also Deep Strike.

Miri wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:

milo wrote:

 winterman wrote:

FW Devil fish in reserve + pathfinder unit with recon drone gets within 6" of a side edge near opponent objective = profit. In other words a psudeo outflank option that no other army has.

And if I read the rules correctly, you can have your recon drone in your own corner, within six inches of one of the table sides, and bring a unit with outflank in from anywhere along that table edge, including your opponents deployment zone (provided you enter from that table side). Talk about unexpected. You'll get a lot of side armor and rear armor shots with that.

That's... pretty dang evil, actually. You could even chain a second recon drone through near the opponent's back edge, and get stuff coming in off the back side of the table as well. Very nice catch.

Nope. You have to be near the board edge you want to come in on. Re-read the entry.

What he means is, you have two pathfinder units with recon drones. One you deploy in your zone at either edge. When you roll for outflank you bring the second pathfinder team with recon drone on the board anywhere along the table edge your first team is, that point just happens to be across the table and withing 6 inches of the enemy table edge. You now have a recon drone within 6 inches of the back table edge and your other outflanking units can come on the field anywhere along the back edge.

Stealth suits, Crisis teams lead by Shadowsun, Kroot, other Pathfinders and Firewarriors lead by Darkstrider are the only ones who can abuse it though :/

Actually, I was really just talking about one Recon drone. A table edge stretches from one corner of the table to the next, correct? So, when I am looking at the table from my deployment zone, the left table edge intersects both my deployment zone and my opponents. If I have my recon drone IN MY DEPLOYMENT ZONE within six inches of that table edge, my outflanking units can come in ANYWHERE on that table edge, including in my opponent deployment zone (from the side.) You could do more with two recon drones, I admit.

I did a blog on the Pathfinders you might find interesting on what Pathfinders ARe now.

The Pathfinder role has 100% changed really.:

Link to blog, please?

SO! Focusedfire and I have butt heads on many things before but also attempted to make tau competitive and a fun all-round army to play. As for my opinions of the new dex, I'll list them:

Biggest, BIGGEST hit was the loss of S10 broadsides, nothing else really matters, not even the required use of markers for the rest of the army, as soon as a 2 point reduction in power was allowed, the H rail rifle became obsolete. Don't get me wrong, a 60" range S8 ap 1 twin-linked gun is still VERY useful, its just that it may or may not (leaning towards may not) be more useful than high yield missiles. If you want a great all comers unit, get high yield with early warning (amazing), if you want arguably the best flyer killer in the game and a very good anti light to medium vehicle killer, get skyfire railsides, remember that even though against av12 flyers you need 4s just to glance, just get that one pen through and weight of fire doesnt matter. At minimum the vehicle is nudered with snap shots only, or roll a 4 or higher and its gone. No other ultra long range gun can boast that effectiveness.

As for av14, this has been the real crux as "what to use" tactics with the new dex. Railsides were the mainstay, something new had to be found and there are options. The first and most obvious option is longstrike in a railhead, used him a bunch and must say he is unbelievably good. The biggest problem I ever had with railheads in the old dex, and the reason I never used them was 1 BS4 shot. 66% chance to hit with one shot is TERRIBLE odds, and was a pointless weapon for most of the game. Now we have a wait, BS5...yes!, Tank hunters... Yes! Preferred enemy for IG(the only other army other than marines of some way, shape or form that would EVER field av14) feth yeah, sign me up!

He has more than paid his points back on multiple occasions, and in the event you REALLY need some vehicle killed, there is no better option. That helldrake really need to go down? Marker lights, BS5 genst air, 2 to glance 3+ to pen, 50% chance of auto destruction...

No as an avid fan of targeting arrays, and someone who particularly hated marker lights in the old dex, I was dissapointed to see the array go the way of the dodo... But now markerlights are carryable in nearly every unit, and they reflect the bs of the drone controller. I mean holy feth was this an improvement, BS5 marker drones that JSJ with a commander? simply rediculous and will outperform pathfinders in nearly every scenario.

This brings up the next point. Pathfinders... I still don't understand the renown for this unit, they used to suck hard being very expensive for a BS3 marker...now they are even worse! Oh yeah they dropped 2 points and don't require a devilfish, ok...but they are still BS3...T3...have now a 5+ save which means even a basic flamer gibs them... and gakky leadership means that in order to field them effectively means you REQUIRE an ethereal... They also have access to the great new special weapons, that for whatever reasons fire warriors can't get? (Like you would ever use them in a markering squad, and offensive pathfinders are VERY expensive one-offs, T3 5+ save with LD7 base just doesnt ever hold up. And to require an ethereal means that where ever the ethereal is, that is one of the first targets your opponent will destroy, as once the ethereal is gone, the rest of the firebase folds fairly easily.

As for amazing new units, other than upgrade characters and HQs, the Riptide was an icredible addition. It is arguably the most resilient MC in the game, and boasts horrendously strong weaponry against any form of infantry. The Nova charge is a "meh" ability that I would likely only attempt once, or stop using if it ever failed. I mean its a T6 5wound terminator with a 60" range weapon that can freakin JSJ, doesnt get better than that. And its cheap! Carnifex cost for a much better unit.

Other new amazingness is as mentioned earlier, the drone controller rule. I mean MAN did this make drones suddenly amazing. One HQ I have been messing around with is a DS'er joined to a 12 man unit of gun drones. ITs hilariously entertaining to stick a very powerful HQ with 14 drones(including the HQ's drones), all being BS5, drones BS5 twin linked pinning, and with a target lock they can fire at different things. I call the strat "Crowstorm" and it has worked incredibly well.

In any case, I was hoping for suits to be base BS4 but what can you do, there is definitely a lot to work with in this dex, and I don't feel it is in any way limited to one strategy.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Link to blog, please?

oops. I thought it was in my signature. sawee.
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/04/new-tau-pathfinders.html

Good tactical analysis.

I now know who to shoot first when I face tau

I'm still running two hammerheads. One Railhead with Longshot and one Ion head. S8 AP3 large blast doesn't really care about BS4 and Longshot is BS5 and tankhunter.

Naturally I will have fusion guns and possibly an EMP run and gun unit just in case the Railhead gets gimped early, but its obvious that Longshot is the go to guy for all of your at range AV14 needs.

The last unit will probably be 3 rail broadsides, 6 missile drones and a babysitting commander giving tankhunter, no cover, and BS5 to the drones. This unit will be rocking the 2+ save and down any AV13 or less thing in a single phase of shooting just due to stripping hull points. Yeah this is a lot of points 300-350ish, but removing multiple heavy or light squadron threats a game it should make its points back pretty fast.

 Jancoran wrote:

oops. I thought it was in my signature. sawee.
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/04/new-tau-pathfinders.html

I was actually wondering about this too for pathfinders. For 26 ppm you get a better plasma gun that doesn't get hot and the unit gets to run three of these in a 4 man squad. I'm not a big fan of the ion gun simply because of the gets hot on a 5+ model scares me initially, but the unit does have quite the bit of firepower. I'm surprised to see so many people not really mentioning these enough. I even chuckled when I saw a player using pathfinders with railrifles the sunday after release, because I'm used to them being more of a throw away unit. After a second of thought I realized that this is actually not a bad idea.

One tactic I'm enjoying so far is taking a recon drone with devilfish. I ran this last Sunday and it was pretty fun and effective. A small squad of pathfinders moving 12" scout and then 18 during the movement phase to get within 6" of the back table edge. Turn 2 you unload the pathfinders, hopefully with rail rifles, and bring in kroot behind enemy lines and call in deepstriking helios suits to establish a foothold in the enemy territory. With all the low Ap weaponry and volume of shots it will be incredibly hard to remove the units from the area, and that's if the enemy isn't trying to remove the Kroot infestation from his backfield. What I really like about this, is that it's a more aggressive approach to the standard Tau gunline and it forces the enemy to focus on maintaining his ground instead of trying to advance. Best part is, is that if the pathfinders get stopped anywhere along the table edge, it still works decently enough to establish well defended position for advancement.