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Can anyone see a flaw with this logic:

Take a Riptide with at least one drone, turning it into a squad.
Take Shadowsun, and join into that squad.

You now have an infiltrating Riptide with +3 to cover saves and majority unit toughness of 6. Unleash some close-range firepower on turn 1 then jump back 3D6 inches behind cover with Shadowsun's Warlord trait.

 xttz wrote:
Can anyone see a flaw with this logic:

Take a Riptide with at least one drone, turning it into a squad.
Take Shadowsun, and join into that squad.

You now have an infiltrating Riptide with +3 to cover saves and majority unit toughness of 6. Unleash some close-range firepower on turn 1 then jump back 3D6 inches behind cover with Shadowsun's Warlord trait.

Is shadowsun fearless?
If not, screwage continues.

 -Loki- wrote:

 reaverX wrote:
This is why I run Zoans. Utility.

So lets say I take my normal elite choices, Doom in a spod and 2x2 Zoans in a spod. Now lets look at the options for dealing with riptide.

Physic Shriek. There will be 6 3d6 leadership checks. Yes some can (and probably will) die to interceptor. Still I like my odds there.

Dominate. LD 9 makes it not as good but still not bad paired with everything else.

Terrify. Man I sure am happy those big ass fish are in the back corners...so close to the table edge.

Puppet Master. Enough said.

Now I don't have the codex in front of me but how long do you have to charge your gun before it can be shot again? Is it next turn or YOUR next turn?

Combine that with all the other Biomancy powers you are rolling and it gets scary quick. All it takes is 1 TL Dev shot if you've been double enfeeble for ID or a smash attack from 1 enfeeble.

The only way to educate people on a Tyranid psychic choir is to give them a good old hammering with it. People just don't understand until they're on the receiving end.

Ain't that the truth. I play at a kinda small store and after our first tourny with 6th ed rules, Eldrad/Farseer and Rune priests suddenly came out of the woodwork as allies. Though having your LR drop 4 templates on your own guys will leave a sour taste in anyones mouth.

I don't they'll praticularly concern my GK and Ultramarine combo.

Start 2 DKs out of LOS so they can jump in and take out anything too threatening and most of the time they've got a fairly good chance if not succeeding at least making back some of their points and causing enough disruption to make it worth it.

And then there is everything else of course.

 Selym wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Can anyone see a flaw with this logic:

Take a Riptide with at least one drone, turning it into a squad.
Take Shadowsun, and join into that squad.

You now have an infiltrating Riptide with +3 to cover saves and majority unit toughness of 6. Unleash some close-range firepower on turn 1 then jump back 3D6 inches behind cover with Shadowsun's Warlord trait.

Is shadowsun fearless?
If not, screwage continues.

A real op combo for sure

 xttz wrote:
Can anyone see a flaw with this logic:

Take a Riptide with at least one drone, turning it into a squad.
Take Shadowsun, and join into that squad.

You now have an infiltrating Riptide with +3 to cover saves and majority unit toughness of 6. Unleash some close-range firepower on turn 1 then jump back 3D6 inches behind cover with Shadowsun's Warlord trait.

Yes, the fact you dont even need the drone.

ICs cannot join units that only EVER consist of one model; by being able to take a drone or two they can be joined by ICs even if they dont take the drones

 xttz wrote:
Can anyone see a flaw with this logic:

Take a Riptide with at least one drone, turning it into a squad.
Take Shadowsun, and join into that squad.

You now have an infiltrating Riptide with +3 to cover saves and majority unit toughness of 6. Unleash some close-range firepower on turn 1 then jump back 3D6 inches behind cover with Shadowsun's Warlord trait.

You don't even need to take the drone. Mearely it being an option allows Shadowsun to join.

Riptide can be equipped with Velocity Tracking and Early Warning array to give it intercept and skyfire, 72" S8 AP2 Heavy 3 is going to hurt any mischevious flyer, and with the Nova reactor set to the shield it has 2+/3++ saves.

You can load out XV88s for intercept and skyfire for extra hurt.

And here is where we see the death of flyer spam, let us all rejoice.

So happy that I am able to take my Tau out of retirement again. The 6th Edition FAQ just screwed them and the new stuff is so good.

MrGrimDark wrote:
Riptide can be equipped with Velocity Tracking and Early Warning array to give it intercept and skyfire, 72" S8 AP2 Heavy 3 is going to hurt any mischevious flyer, and with the Nova reactor set to the shield it has 2+/3++ saves.

You can load out XV88s for intercept and skyfire for extra hurt.

And here is where we see the death of flyer spam, let us all rejoice.

So happy that I am able to take my Tau out of retirement again. The 6th Edition FAQ just screwed them and the new stuff is so good.

While all this is true, this might cost some points, so the rest of your army may be lacking. Just be glad you can swat flyers while my LRR parks beside and flames you to death while getting hammered by terminators.

MrGrimDark wrote:
Riptide can be equipped with Velocity Tracking and Early Warning array to give it intercept and skyfire, 72" S8 AP2 Heavy 3 is going to hurt any mischevious flyer, and with the Nova reactor set to the shield it has 2+/3++ saves.

You can load out XV88s for intercept and skyfire for extra hurt.

And here is where we see the death of flyer spam, let us all rejoice.

So happy that I am able to take my Tau out of retirement again. The 6th Edition FAQ just screwed them and the new stuff is so good.

no you cant... Xv88 can take skyfire OR intercept.. not both

Maybe he meant the XV8?

While all this is true, this might cost some points, so the rest of your army may be lacking. Just be glad you can swat flyers while my LRR parks beside and flames you to death while getting hammered by terminators.

It does but that can also shoot at ground targets and by focussing the Nova reactor to weapons a S9 AP1 Ordnance blast is going to make Terminators have a bad time and an Onager gauntlet or a hammerhead will see off the LRR. Thought the XV88 could take two support systems? not really read the codex in detail.

 Infreak wrote:
Maybe he meant the XV8?

id agree except the loadout of an XV8 with 2 of its 4 option taken by the above options, means 1 TL missile pod... XV88 is actually dangerous anti flyer in missileside config

A bit of topic now but for everybody who thinks to spam riptides I am sure that after six months GW is gouing to make riptides useless as it did with fliers.
btw What should be the nickname for the riptide?

MrGrimDark - a hammerhead that hits AND penetrates *still* only has a 50% chance to destroy the LRR per turn.

The damage table has always and will always be the issue - S10 gets you the penetrate easier than usual, and AP1 helps make the shot count, but the damage chart still hurts you half the time. You're needing a pair of hammerheads, with markerlight suppotr to either strip cover or raise BS (as either of these being low hurts your odds of even getting to the damage chart) to have an evens chance of significantly damaing a LRR in one turn. ANd one turn is all it really needs to deliver, as an 18" move is pretty useful.

 xttz wrote:
Can anyone see a flaw with this logic:

Take a Riptide with at least one drone, turning it into a squad.
Take Shadowsun, and join into that squad.

You now have an infiltrating Riptide with +3 to cover saves and majority unit toughness of 6. Unleash some close-range firepower on turn 1 then jump back 3D6 inches behind cover with Shadowsun's Warlord trait.

I'm not a tau expert, but I suspect there are better uses for Shadowsuns traits. Given how mobile the riptide is I'm not sure infiltrating it is hugely helpful, and it gets a 3++ invulnerable anyway which avoids you having to struggle to find it cover (not easy given it's size).

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Poisoned Gants are not going to get anywhere near it. You can't ignore it, because it's dropping 3x pie plate on you every turn. The only thing that stands a chance is Winged Hive Tyrant assaulting it, but congrats you're tying up a 185 point unit with a 260 point unit and nerfing your own firepower the rest of the game.

I think your overestimating the value of 3 pie plates. 3 STR 8 AP3 large blasts for ~600 points is good, but its not jaw-dropping great. Its about on par with LRBTs in that capacity -- and we don't see those flooding the table.

What makes the riptide cool is its flexability. Its can fill a lot of roles when required.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Poisoned Gants are not going to get anywhere near it. You can't ignore it, because it's dropping 3x pie plate on you every turn. The only thing that stands a chance is Winged Hive Tyrant assaulting it, but congrats you're tying up a 185 point unit with a 260 point unit and nerfing your own firepower the rest of the game.

I think your overestimating the value of 3 pie plates. 3 STR 8 AP3 large blasts for ~600 points is good, but its not jaw-dropping great. Its about on par with LRBTs in that capacity -- and we don't see those flooding the table.

What makes the riptide cool is its flexability. Its can fill a lot of roles when required.

When taking 3 you don't need to dump points into FNP for survive-ability. Keeping them at 190 points per with interceptor. Thats 570 points for 3 STR8/9 AP2 pie plates. Plus all the survive-ability already discussed and versatility/flexibility.

omgidfk wrote:
When taking 3 you don't need to dump points into FNP for survive-ability. Keeping them at 190 points per with interceptor. Thats 570 points for 3 STR8/9 AP2 pie plates. Plus all the survive-ability already discussed and versatility/flexibility.

The pie really are not that hot.
Against most players your going to be hitting many targets under it. If they are getting a 4+ cover save, your going to be killing just a few models at best. I ran 3 LRBTs for a while at the start of 6th and dropped them fairly quickly, as I found the pie plates to be underwhelming.

Don't get me wrong, there will be that occasional time when someone has assaulted a vehicle and you are able to nail tons under the plate because they are all bunched up, or when SNP units deep strike, but its not very common. Decent players will generally prevent you from getting that opportunity.

omgidfk wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Poisoned Gants are not going to get anywhere near it. You can't ignore it, because it's dropping 3x pie plate on you every turn. The only thing that stands a chance is Winged Hive Tyrant assaulting it, but congrats you're tying up a 185 point unit with a 260 point unit and nerfing your own firepower the rest of the game.

I think your overestimating the value of 3 pie plates. 3 STR 8 AP3 large blasts for ~600 points is good, but its not jaw-dropping great. Its about on par with LRBTs in that capacity -- and we don't see those flooding the table.

What makes the riptide cool is its flexability. Its can fill a lot of roles when required.

When taking 3 you don't need to dump points into FNP for survive-ability. Keeping them at 190 points per with interceptor. Thats 570 points for 3 STR8/9 AP2 pie plates. Plus all the survive-ability already discussed and versatility/flexibility.

Of course when you use interceptor to get at enemy drop pods and the like, you are unable to fire markerlights at the troop as well, so you'll still be shooting BS3 pieplates at them.

Gosh, I can't believe how obtuse some Marine players are here about their precious drop-podding Sternguard, who cost 2x a Riptide. If I had a drop pod army and was facing 3x Interceptor Riptides + whatever else interceptor Tau are packing, would be terrified. Considering a large proportion of your army is in those three initial drop pods as opposed to 570 points of models who have a good chance of surviving your initial shooting phase AND SHOOT YOU FIRST, it's pretty clear podding/dsing anything is a bad idead against 3x Riptides.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just played a couple of games with a Soulgrinder which has BS3 Pieplates, and I wasn't much impressed.

Good thing Tau can increase BS...

I just read through this whole thread and have one question:

What does the Riptide do once the markerlight units die?

BS3 isn't that bad, especially if you are using templates.

The point I was trying to make is that certain individuals seem to be assuming that the Riptide will be able to annihilate anything because markerlights can increase BS and (more importantly) remove cover saves, which increases the Riptide's destructive potential.

However, not only does this require one to devote multiple markerlights to just supporting a single Riptide, but it also means that if those markerlight units are destroyed, the Riptide will lose its ability to increase its BS and ignore cover saves.

I'm personally reserving judgement as to whether or not the Riptide is bad, good, or great. I just felt that this particular point needed to be brought up.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Gosh, I can't believe how obtuse some Marine players are here about their precious drop-podding Sternguard, who cost 2x a Riptide. If I had a drop pod army and was facing 3x Interceptor Riptides + whatever else interceptor Tau are packing, would be terrified. Considering a large proportion of your army is in those three initial drop pods as opposed to 570 points of models who have a good chance of surviving your initial shooting phase AND SHOOT YOU FIRST, it's pretty clear podding/dsing anything is a bad idead against 3x Riptides.

Sigh

Again, you are assuming you can ALWAYS shoot ALL 3 riptides at the contents of the drop pods. That isnt going to happen in actual play. Youarent getting better than BS3 on the turn i drop because you dont have interceptor marker lights on that riptide

Your continued "I wil only consider unlikely extremes" is pointless to a rational, reasoned discussion of the merits and weaknesses of the riptide. According to you it has none, which is frankly crap as far as statements go.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I just played a couple of games with a Soulgrinder which has BS3 Pieplates, and I wasn't much impressed.

Good thing Tau can increase BS...

Not on interceptor they cant. And what happens when I kill your markerlights? What happens when my 2 LR hit your lines because you still only have a 50% chance to kill a LR *after* you penetrate? What happens when your precious MC gets TS by a 35point rhino, fails a morale check and falls back off the board?

Is the Riptide strong? YES. It is *strong*. Is it as insanely broken as you are attempting to claim throughout this thread? No.

Your premise has been disproven, over and over. Give it up

Please bring two LR, Drop Pods and Rhinos against my Tau force. I guarantee you won't cross the no-man's land. Face it, Codex Marines are boned against Tau.

Has anyone actually used the Riptide against a C:SM force yet?

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Please bring two LR, Drop Pods and Rhinos against my Tau force. I guarantee you won't cross the no-man's land. Face it, Codex Marines are boned against Tau.

You claim that EVERYONE is boned against Tau

Why should C:SM be any different

The Riptide is pretty good, and with some Markerlight support it's even better.

Tau in general got a nice boost, and with Markerlight support they are even better

Doesn't make them an Instawin against any other army

Question: How many ACTUAL games have you played with/against the new Tau?

Also which deployment layouts, and with how much cover?

You seem to be assuming that you can turtle them in every game in a corner 72'' away from any foe, with perfect fire lanes to the entire enemy force, and yet simultaneously outmaneuver the ENTIRE enemy force if any of them get close in.

This would only be possible if you are playing an Apoc game on the planet Billiard Ball against an enemy that refuses to get any of his forces in close and accept a few losses to feth you over. Most deployment maps will put the enemy a lot closer, and LOS blocking scenery will be on the board

RIptides are good but i'm not sure they are Heldrake level. You can hide from a Riptide by abusing terrain, you can nab cover saves against it (they can be taken away, but we are comparing in a vacuum from what I can tell). If it does use its ability it has a 33% chance of wounding itself, which is actually a fair issue, in my playtesting i've found myself getting wounded quite often and sometimes it happens when I really need the special abilities.

I do think it is a very good unit though and it is very, very durable.

Asmodais answer to anything is:

But then they get shot, but then the get instadeathed but then this but then that.

Have to question whether this man has ever played a 40K game in his life. In a perfect world scenario any unit is super duper kick ass.