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Xyrael wrote:

Meh. Rough Riders are classic, man, and the conversion opportunities for them are more fun than any other IG unit, that's for sure. And, Valk/Vendetta dedicated transports? Because IG lists need to be able to go higher than 9 of them as it is?

It's not like people actually field 9 of them as is, the Squadron rules are hilariously awkward for Baneblade sized flyers, and if it's just on Stormtroopers (I'd say Valk only, Vendettas should really be a HS unit actually) it's not likely to be an issue. Nobody really complains about Valkyries, it's the Vendettas.

 martin74 wrote:
I like the current codex. Only things i would change if possible.

1. Give the storm troopers the option of taking a valk/vendetta as a dedicated transport. Terminators can get a land raider, why no other unit.

2. Veteran drivers. Make this an upgrade for veteran squads. Make the chimera a BS4. Maybe 15 points.

3. Rough riders. This is a unit I would just scrap.

4. Hydra. Keep it at current point cost. Add interceptor for 50 points.

Adding Interceptor is not worth increasing its cost by 66% for one USR. Likewise, BS4 on tin-can chimeras is not worth a 27% increase in cost to bump a single stat by 1pt.

We should get our jetbikes back. The ensuing nerd rage would be so worth it.

Recently returning to 40k, I must say I was disappointed at what the guard Dex has lost.
Doctrines, however where overly restrictive IMO.
Schaeffer and the Last Chancers do needto make are turn tho.

 BrookM wrote:

I'd also like to see a return of the command bubble for all officers and a more useful vox, because a re-roll on something in shouting distance is just pants.

I lol'd.

And not to mention not being able to order your own squadies in your chimera....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure what people mean when they say the codex has problems with "internal balance". If it means there are several units that have niche roles, and/or require specific tactics to be effective, then, of course! I just don't know that this is a bad thing.

 Las wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Stormtroopers are too cool to be in the situation they're in. I'd be more excited for new plastics than anything else though.

I agree with this a hundred percent. Plastic stormtroopers would be amazing.

They already exist imo. The Eisenkern Stormtroopers are ridiculously good.

Snapshot wrote:
I'm not sure what people mean when they say the codex has problems with "internal balance". If it means there are several units that have niche roles, and/or require specific tactics to be effective, then, of course! I just don't know that this is a bad thing.

It means that some units are too bad or too good compared to other units in the codex, resulting in always taking some units and never taking other units. Because they're bad. And you should feel bad for using them.

Snapshot wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

I'd also like to see a return of the command bubble for all officers and a more useful vox, because a re-roll on something in shouting distance is just pants.

I lol'd.

And not to mention not being able to order your own squadies in your chimera....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure what people mean when they say the codex has problems with "internal balance". If it means there are several units that have niche roles, and/or require specific tactics to be effective, then, of course! I just don't know that this is a bad thing.

The problem is that they're TOO niche to the point that it's a bone-headed decision to include them over other units that can do the same job but better. It's not really a matter of simply picking your favourite flavour; if the internal balance was good, then you could take whatever units you actually wanted to instead of having a handful of units stuffed down your throat that are just so much more points efficient and combat effective.

Let's use the Sentinel as an example. It can take a few different weapon options, almost all of which are designed to deal with enemy armour. It CAN fulfill an anti-tank role, but why choose it over the vastly superior Vendetta? Well, it can start on the table unlike the Vendetta, and doesn't have the danger of overshooting its target when it moves like the Vendetta does, can score for you when you play The Scouring, and... well, that's about it. I can't imagine a situation where this meager list of pros could ever propel someone to field a Sentinel over a Vendetta, it's just not a niche that needs to be filled. The Vendetta just gives you so much more bang for your buck.

When the guard codex was on the verge of being rolled over from their 4th ed to their 5th ed version, I was nervous. I didn't think that the imperial guard really NEEDED a new codex. Now, at the vague verge of a 5th to 6th change, I'm VERY nervous. The codex really is pretty great as it is, which makes me fear that the only place it can go is down.

Really, there are just a few tiny changes that need to be made. Vendettas losing their transport capacity, techpriests gaining independent character, rough riders being able to assault out of reserves, and a little tweak to the killing power of the vanquisher and... well, that's pretty much it, actually. Not to say that there aren't some other units that could use a leg up, but really, most of the changes are small and easy.

The writers would really make my day if they only made small, incremental changes. As the thread title notes, it's not that broken, so it doesn't need much fixing.

 Ailaros wrote:
When the guard codex was on the verge of being rolled over from their 4th ed to their 5th ed version, I was nervous. I didn't think that the imperial guard really NEEDED a new codex. Now, at the vague verge of a 5th to 6th change, I'm VERY nervous. The codex really is pretty great as it is, which makes me fear that the only place it can go is down.

Really, there are just a few tiny changes that need to be made. Vendettas losing their transport capacity, techpriests gaining independent character, rough riders being able to assault out of reserves, and a little tweak to the killing power of the vanquisher and... well, that's pretty much it, actually. Not to say that there aren't some other units that could use a leg up, but really, most of the changes are small and easy.

The writers would really make my day if they only made small, incremental changes. As the thread title notes, it's not that broken, so it doesn't need much fixing.

Vendetta's also gaining about a nice..thirty to fifty point increase as well, should do it properly.

 Ailaros wrote:
When the guard codex was on the verge of being rolled over from their 4th ed to their 5th ed version, I was nervous. I didn't think that the imperial guard really NEEDED a new codex. Now, at the vague verge of a 5th to 6th change, I'm VERY nervous. The codex really is pretty great as it is, which makes me fear that the only place it can go is down.

Really, there are just a few tiny changes that need to be made. Vendettas losing their transport capacity, techpriests gaining independent character, rough riders being able to assault out of reserves, and a little tweak to the killing power of the vanquisher and... well, that's pretty much it, actually. Not to say that there aren't some other units that could use a leg up, but really, most of the changes are small and easy.

The writers would really make my day if they only made small, incremental changes. As the thread title notes, it's not that broken, so it doesn't need much fixing.

Tau got small incremental changes. Those small changes eliminated mech Tau's mobility and made markerlights a near prerequisite for competitiveness. The failure of the devilfish to go down to 50 or so points (because it really should be on par with a Razorback cost-wise) hurt too. IG don't need small, incremental changes. They need to be made into a balanced army, right now IG are really only competitive in a very template-style list setup, with the majority of the units being un-viable alternatives. Most of the IG options, like Sentinels, just aren't cost-effective. If they were at least cost-effective (not even the best in the slot, but cost-effective) the book would be better. For the Tau, at least all the units look good now, even the old Vespid's got a pick-me up. Sure, other options are better, but at least a Tau player can play a non-competitive list and still be viable. An IG player can't really.

I'd like to see some fluff fixes as well, the "DERP THIS ARMY AM CANNONFODDER" aspect has been taken to an extreme where it feels like a little kid has been making gak up as he went along going "Forty thousand regiments died here!!!" and "This guys killed a million of his own guys there!!!" just to drive the theme home that this is the army that goes on the covers of other army books when they need dead bodies..

Xyrael wrote:The failure of the devilfish to go down to 50 or so points (because it really should be on par with a Razorback cost-wise)

What? If you can't see the benefit of having AV13, a jink save, and the ability to fly over terrain, then I question how much you should be in charge of writing rules.

Xyrael wrote:right now IG are really only competitive in a very template-style list setup, with the majority of the units being un-viable alternatives.

Especially when you make statements like this...

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Vendetta's also gaining about a nice..thirty to fifty point increase as well, should do it properly.

Honestly, I don't think they need it. Get rid of their ability to transport, and they'd be more or less fine. That and make their sponson bolters more expensive.

Vendettas are probably the most over-rated unit in the entire game right now.

 Ailaros wrote:

Xyrael wrote:The failure of the devilfish to go down to 50 or so points (because it really should be on par with a Razorback cost-wise)

What? If you can't see the benefit of having AV13, a jink save, and the ability to fly over terrain, then I question how much you should be in charge of writing rules.

Xyrael wrote:right now IG are really only competitive in a very template-style list setup, with the majority of the units being un-viable alternatives.

Especially when you make statements like this...

It's a good thing they hire professionals like Matt Ward. The Devilfish is only AV12 for starters, and the 4+ jink save is nice for increasing the resilience of the model, but really I had preferred the mobility of the Hammerhead as a gun platform to its resilience; now, it has no synergy with the Devilfish or Crisis Suits and is only good for sitting back with the rest of the gunline, totally anathema to the mobile nature of Tau warfare. There are plenty of units in the IG Codex that just aren't worth it. Penal legion, Ratlings, Ogryn, Rough Riders, Sentinels, most of the LRBT variants, most of the Ordnance Battery variants, the Deathstrike launcher (unless you are just being lulz) the HWT's from the Infantry Platoons.

@BrookM - I agree, the whole Soviet Style manspam list deal is getting tiring. For an army focused on tanks and treads, I'd think that it'd have more of a Panzer-style fluff background and less of a Soviet manspam fluff.

Things I want to see:

1) A statement at the beginning of the codex saying "FW rules, including all IG variant lists, are part of this codex and you have our permission to call your opponent TFG and stab them in the face with a power sword if they say otherwise" so our fluffy and interesting Elysian/DKoK armies are without any question part of the game.

2) Vendettas go up in points to match their new effectiveness as flyers.

3) Rough rider mounts for a CCS that make rough riders troops.

4) Special operations upgrade for a CCS that makes stormtroopers troops.

Things I expect to see:

1) Combined squads removed. Can't have hard to kill objective holders that abuse the IC rules.

2) Veterans become BS 2, but get a +1 bonus to their leadership for purposes of receiving orders (just like Codex:Magic Laser Pointers it's important to have synergy between units).

3) Weapon upgrades replaced with a random upgrade table that you roll on before each game to see what your units have been issued. Half the results will be "nothing but a lasgun".

4) The awesome FW flyers will be ignored, and we'll get a $150 kit that somehow manages to look uglier than any other flyer released so far. Fortunately its rules will suck so nobody will care.

5) Orders will become the defining mechanic of IG. All of our units will suck without them, but will be completely overpowered if we are "smart" enough to use the order that makes all of our units BS 10 and ignore cover saves.

6) Leman Russes will lose the heavy USR but will only cost 50 points each.

7) Hydras will get interceptor, and have their autocannons replaced with four railguns (just to make Tau players cry).

8) The days of allies abuse will end, and IG will only be allowed to ally with Tyranids. As battle brothers.

9) Matt Ward will write all of the fluff, including an awesome story where Creed outflanks a Reaver titan carrying Marbo into the Eye of Terror and Marbo kills all of the chaos gods, but then brings them back to life because it's more fun when there are demons to kill.

If you can't see the benefit of having AV13

I can see the benefit of having AV 13. Unfortunately the Devilfish doesn't have AV 13.

Get rid of their ability to transport

That makes no sense. The entire gun + power pack upgrade is wing-mounted, the Vendetta's transport compartment is exactly identical to the Valkyrie's. You'd have to invent some bizarre fluff about how Vendettas are flying around with their cargo holds empty as punishment for their heresy in 6th or something. Which is silly when you could just increase the point cost to match their abilities.

That and make their sponson bolters more expensive.

The sponson bolters are fine. They only get to fire occasionally because of arc issues, and you almost never get to fire both of them. 10 points for a situational HB is, if anything, too many points.

Vendettas are probably the most over-rated unit in the entire game right now.

While simultaneously being the unit so overpowered that you refuse to play with it no matter how much it would improve your lists?

What I'm hoping for:

A new plastic regiment to replace the Catachans. Preferably, some combination of mixed-gender, greatcoats, penal troopers and proper grim-dark gothic science fantasy craziness.

Leman Russ to get reclassified as a medium tank, fielded in large numbers (like the M4). New heavy tank design with functional-looking suspension.

Infiltrating veterans, stormtroopers who can handle multiple roles, scouting rough-riders, long-range vox, models for all the artillery units.

Vendetta only allowed to fire it's lascannons while in hover mode because diverting that much power to the weapons means it can't use it's engines fully.

What I'm expecting:

A new kit for the vendetta at the same time as the vendetta is nerfed to be utterly useless. This kit will also make some kind of bomber-variant which may possibly be slightly less useless. Valkyrie also nerfed to bring it into line with new Vendetta.

A giant sentinel which counts as a monstrous creature. Armed with a gravity blaster cannon, which has over-complicated special rules and doesn't use Strikedown for some reason.

A dual kit of rough-riders and mutant attack ponies. Rough-rider rules still rubbish, attack ponies look even worse than the name suggests, but much better than rough-riders at the same role.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Captain Roderick wrote:
I mean, sure, we're not top dogs codex-wise l

Ehm...you might want to check that twice.

Right now, IG are the most broken army in the entire game.

I stand corrected.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Captain Roderick wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Also, 40pt Vendetta tax, please!

Could you clarify that a little? Is that the 40pt tax rate for high-vendetta earners? (terrible joke for the UK crowd there)

The 40pt tax is intergral to attracting truly world-class vendettas to the Imperial Guard.

*Tips hat* thank you sir for having the same awful sense of humour as me...

 Peregrine wrote:


Things I expect to see:

1) Combined squads removed. Can't have hard to kill objective holders that abuse the IC rules.

2) Veterans become BS 2, but get a +1 bonus to their leadership for purposes of receiving orders (just like Codex:Magic Laser Pointers it's important to have synergy between units).

3) Weapon upgrades replaced with a random upgrade table that you roll on before each game to see what your units have been issued. Half the results will be "nothing but a lasgun".

4) The awesome FW flyers will be ignored, and we'll get a $150 kit that somehow manages to look uglier than any other flyer released so far. Fortunately its rules will suck so nobody will care.

5) Orders will become the defining mechanic of IG. All of our units will suck without them, but will be completely overpowered if we are "smart" enough to use the order that makes all of our units BS 10 and ignore cover saves.

6) Leman Russes will lose the heavy USR but will only cost 50 points each.

7) Hydras will get interceptor, and have their autocannons replaced with four railguns (just to make Tau players cry).

8) The days of allies abuse will end, and IG will only be allowed to ally with Tyranids. As battle brothers.

9) Matt Ward will write all of the fluff, including an awesome story where Creed outflanks a Reaver titan carrying Marbo into the Eye of Terror and Marbo kills all of the chaos gods, but then brings them back to life because it's more fun when there are demons to kill.

WOW that is some serious world-class cynicism right there. *slow clap*

The only thing I'd disagree with is that if Matt Ward was writing the fluff, it'd turn out that Creed developed his tactical genius just because he really, really wanted to be an Ultramarine, but never can be... *sniff*

(official disclaimer: I don't have a problem with ultramarines, nor a big problem with Ward (AKA the Michael Bay of GW), but, y'know, lulz)

 Captain Roderick wrote:
WOW that is some serious world-class cynicism right there. *slow clap*

Might as well get disappointed early and get used to it. The IG codex is already awesome, so there really isn't anywhere to go but down.

Vendettas should indeed lose all Transport capacity, it's a tank-hunter gunship
If you turn a Drakka Raider into a pew-pew raider, you lose 6 Spaces Marines sized transport capacity, it seems logical that 3 TL-LC takes quite some room, especially with the crappy designed generators IG has

In fact, Vendettas should be completely removed and replaced by a Vulture variant :
Replace the Heavy Bolter and the Hellstrike missiles with 3 TL-LC for + 70 points (or something like that)

TanKoL wrote:
If you turn a Drakka Raider into a pew-pew raider, you lose 6 Spaces Marines sized transport capacity, it seems logical that 3 TL-LC takes quite some room, especially with the crappy designed generators IG has

Except we have the model for the Vendetta and the power generators (battery packs, really) are entirely external. If you remove the transport capacity you just have your Vendettas flying around with empty cargo compartments for no apparent reason.

In fact, Vendettas should be completely removed and replaced by a Vulture variant :
Replace the Heavy Bolter and the Hellstrike missiles with 3 TL-LC for + 70 points (or something like that)

Yes, this is what should have been done originally, GW should have just put the Vulture in the codex. But they wanted to sell the new Valkyrie kit with overpowered rules and now we're stuck with the Vendetta. You can't just remove it from the game entirely, so the obvious solution is to adjust the point cost to a fair level.

I think the IG Codex is pretty solid as is but...

What I would like to see though is some love given to the model range:-
- New Rough Riders. I would like to see some really dynamic poses here. Horse galloping, Lance poised, body tense and war face.
- Plastic Medusa/Griffon kit.
- long coats and near future spec-ops, modular system so you can mix in with the existing Cadian range.
- Redo Catachan Jungle Fighters so you can mix in with the above mentioned (Belt on the legs and not the torso) also get rid of the roid rage arms.

Some new units I would like to see. By the way I am a massed cavalry charge nerd
- Rough Rider Commissar.
- Rough Rider Priest
- Rough Rider HQ

I think it would be a shame if the Rough Riders were dropped. The thing that sold 40K to me is the whole Historical reference meets dark sci-fi. To render the IG down to modern military in the future would make them generic and bland IMO.

Cheers Vim

 vim_the_good wrote:

- New Rough Riders. I would like to see some really dynamic poses here. Horse galloping, Lance poised, body tense and war face.

- long coats and near future spec-ops, modular system so you can mix in with the existing Cadian range.

This one seems to be cropping up a lot... And although it'd be AMAZING if GW did this, it'd also sort of put poor old Victoria Lamb out of business. But greatcoats and near future stuff would be great, and yes, giving RR's either bigger squads or the ability to assault out of reserves would be a lovely simple fix (I think that suggestion was Ailaros)

 vim_the_good wrote:
I think the IG Codex is pretty solid as is but...

What I would like to see though is some love given to the model range:-
- New Rough Riders. I would like to see some really dynamic poses here. Horse galloping, Lance poised, body tense and war face.
- Plastic Medusa/Griffon kit.
- long coats and near future spec-ops, modular system so you can mix in with the existing Cadian range.
- Redo Catachan Jungle Fighters so you can mix in with the above mentioned (Belt on the legs and not the torso) also get rid of the roid rage arms.

Some new units I would like to see. By the way I am a massed cavalry charge nerd
- Rough Rider Commissar.
- Rough Rider Priest
- Rough Rider HQ

I think it would be a shame if the Rough Riders were dropped. The thing that sold 40K to me is the whole Historical reference meets dark sci-fi. To render the IG down to modern military in the future would make them generic and bland IMO.

Cheers Vim

Exactly, I mean, I can understand if people want to follow a "modern" or "near future" military sci-fi theme with their army, but why do people who prefer that aesthetic so often seem to want all other options reduced or eliminated? If you don't want grimdark stuff, don't buy/use it, problem solved.

Peregrine's solution would be ideal IMO; give the CCS a variety of upgrades that modify the list composition or unit options. The fluff talks about all the thousands of different types of formations that the Guard uses, but all we actually get are Drop Troops, Siege, and Cadian-clones, not to mention that two of those are FW lists and a lot of people have to play against stubborn fun-haters who refuse to play FW stuff. I'd add that I quite fancy the idea of replacing the distinct Penal Legion unit with a CCS upgrade(called "Penal Battalion" or somesuch) that gives your infantry squads some of the rules from the current Penal Legion, gives the CCS Carapace and access to shock mauls, and bring back the Last Chancers.

EDIT: Oh yes, and I want my Carabinier back dag-nabbit! Let Rough Riders swap out their lances and pistols for lasguns and access to special weapons again.

Imagine if GW hired Victoria Lamb as an outside contractor.
- They make all her current range legit for tournament play.
- They task her with making all the upgrade packs for the multitude of IG armies.

This would be great. It would then allow Forge World to concentrate on the HH and tanks.

 vim_the_good wrote:
Imagine if GW hired Victoria Lamb as an outside contractor.
- They make all her current range legit for tournament play.
- They task her with making all the upgrade packs for the multitude of IG armies.

This would be great. It would then allow Forge World to concentrate on the HH and tanks.

A nice dream, but never ever happening.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Exactly, I mean, I can understand if people want to follow a "modern" or "near future" military sci-fi theme with their army, but why do people who prefer that aesthetic so often seem to want all other options reduced or eliminated? If you don't want grimdark stuff, don't buy/use it, problem solved.

"Near future/modern" and "grimdark" are not mutually exclusive. Actually, Verdun would look like a peaceful picnic next to a real, high-tech meat grinder. I can totally support those who want to eliminate/change/retcon the weird options because it would give the IG some well-deserved personality instead of the current "historical references in SPEESSHH" theme.

 AtoMaki wrote:
I can totally support those who want to eliminate/change/retcon the weird options because it would give the IG some well-deserved personality instead of the current "historical references in SPEESSHH" theme.

I can't support that at all.

Part of the reason I started playing Guard is the infinite cultural variation; the ability to play the army *you* want. AFAIK the majority of pre-5th-ed Guard players also have a bit of a penchant for military history and possibly historical wargaming. It also underpins the whole of the imperium culturally; a billion human worlds, barely kept together by religion, warp travel and totalitarianism.

And if you're going to point that stick at the Guard, I can't wait to hear what you've got to say about the Black Templar, the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves...

As an IG player here are things that should change:

Vendetta points increase
Storm Troopers - more effective - valkyrie as dedicated transport
Leman Russ - Lumbering Behemoth rule in this form: other weapons are not affected by the ordinance rule from main weapon (if it has it) and can fire at normal BS
Decrease in points for Hellhound and variants
Platoons - possible expansion
Rough Rider points decrease
Penal Legion - slight points decrease, squads from 10-30. Special weapon for every 10 models. Bring back special character for upgrade
Sentinel varients points decrease
DeathStrike - more effective - works as D weapon type of rule
Hydra - have the ability to choose between skyfire or not (like the current soulgrinder)
Ogryns - slight points decrease


Things To sell/expect (hopefully):

Hydra Kit
Ordinace kit (colossus, medusa, griffon)
Storm Trooper plastic kit
Two or three new kits/characters
Plastic generic HQ

 Captain Roderick wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
I can totally support those who want to eliminate/change/retcon the weird options because it would give the IG some well-deserved personality instead of the current "historical references in SPEESSHH" theme.

I can't support that at all.

Part of the reason I started playing Guard is the infinite cultural variation; the ability to play the army *you* want. AFAIK the majority of pre-5th-ed Guard players also have a bit of a penchant for military history and possibly historical wargaming. It also underpins the whole of the imperium culturally; a billion human worlds, barely kept together by religion, warp travel and totalitarianism.

And if you're going to point that stick at the Guard, I can't wait to hear what you've got to say about the Black Templar, the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves...

I didn't say that they should leave the cultural diversity behind. A Mordian Iron Guard is a Mordian Iron Guard in a tactical vest too. Yeah, he is no longer crazy-silly, but he shouldn't be either.

I'd sooner they add female cadians, female special characters, and of course the thing that all guard players love, more tanks.

 AtoMaki wrote:


I didn't say that they should leave the cultural diversity behind. A Mordian Iron Guard is a Mordian Iron Guard in a tactical vest too. Yeah, he is no longer crazy-silly, but he shouldn't be either.

So you'd standardise all IG models as Cadians?

 Captain Roderick wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:


I didn't say that they should leave the cultural diversity behind. A Mordian Iron Guard is a Mordian Iron Guard in a tactical vest too. Yeah, he is no longer crazy-silly, but he shouldn't be either.

So you'd standardise all IG models as Cadians?

Pretty much. But not Cadians, because Cadians are also silly (IMHO), but more like these guys:

So lightly armoured, lots of random equipment (often mismatched), lots of face-masks/gas-masks, looks crazy-prepared but still pretty "roguish". And then we could add the culture specific stuff: skulls for the Kanak guys, headbands (instead of the helmets) and big knives for the Catachans, longer coats (not actual longcoats) and cooler gas-masks for the DKoK and so on. This way, we could have a full model range of plastic infantry with a couple "upgrade sets" and still everyone is pleased (or not, because they want their historical references in SPEESSHH).