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 Happygrunt wrote:
Quick question. I have been really wanting to include some terminators in my IG and, through some research, GK terminators seem like the best choice. How do you keep these guys cheap yet effective. I was looking at doing a 10 man squad with a librarian for allies, but it is coming out to around 700 points and that is a lot to sink into an ally detachment.

If you go 10 man it will be expensive. If thats what you want then: 10 termies, 2 psycannon. Librarian with divination. 600 points. Take hammers and halberds on the termies. If you want you can add a bro banner, psybolt ammo, and a stave/halberd to the libby, but then you get close to the 700 point mark. Its part of playing grey knights I guess.

I'm curious in general, but personally, I'd be staying mech.

As much as I really like assault cannons, GK already have psycannons for rending S7, and I just don't see how much I really need this weapon.

You know, I suppose instead of going the fancy way about it, I could always go the cheap option. 5x GKT along with a malleus inquisitor in terminator armor for 265 points. In this case, they'd be comparable to 6 ogryn for the same price. Fewer wounds, and worse shooting, but better armor and the ability to deepstrike. And better close combat. And scoring.

Or, for a slightly upgraded version, you could do 5xGKTs along with Thawn, and a rather bare-bones inquisitor with a servo skull, or needle pistol, or psyocculum, or something. It all comes in at roughly 325 points, depending on upgrades, which is starting to get a little pricey, but it's still not TOO bad, and, for that 60 points you get get-back-up Thawn, and then something screwy, like hating psykers or plasma weapons, or whatever.

You know, really getting use out of their special rules.

That or, I suppose, a 5-man strike squad, said inquisitor, and a vindicare for roughly the same price.

 tuiman wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
Quick question. I have been really wanting to include some terminators in my IG and, through some research, GK terminators seem like the best choice. How do you keep these guys cheap yet effective. I was looking at doing a 10 man squad with a librarian for allies, but it is coming out to around 700 points and that is a lot to sink into an ally detachment.

If you go 10 man it will be expensive. If thats what you want then: 10 termies, 2 psycannon. Librarian with divination. 600 points. Take hammers and halberds on the termies. If you want you can add a bro banner, psybolt ammo, and a stave/halberd to the libby, but then you get close to the 700 point mark. Its part of playing grey knights I guess.

What I had been looking at was 10 terminators with 2x psycannons, halberds and hammers to taste, psybolt and a bro banner. The libby had 2x powers, psybolt and a warding staff. I was going to give the libby divination and have these guys lead the charge up the board.

I've always believed that the best thing in the Grey Knight Codex was simply the Grey Knight, for 4 pts more than a tactical marine this guy has a storm bolter, limited psychic defense and a force weapon. Man for man Grey Knights are some of the best troops in the game.

The question of if they have a place in guard is different. As a gunline guard player I can see a need for them. Something that can take objectives in the mid field and will actually require your opponent to expend effort beyond some bolters to kill. I like the idea of something that can take a charge and might actually live.

Vindicares are good too

It seems to me that by taking expensive allied troops you are diluting the real power of the IG, which is lots of dice. I am not saying it is a bad idea to take allies and it certainly is a way to add some new dimension but I am just not convinced it is required.

Getting preferred enemy against demons is not a good reason to take GK. Demons are gak, you should be able to virtually table most demon armies with a strong IG list.

Ok, here's my take.
Strike Squad of 10 grey knights is 220 points with S5 storm bolters. At BS4, you're paying 15 point per hit.
That's more cost effective firepower than chimeras or heavy bolter weapon teams.
You also pick up, Warp Quake, deep strike, and 10 power weapons, which is something guard doesn't have.
More bang for the buck, plus a decent counter assault. Don't forget the grenades on those guys either.

Alternatively, you could go with Purgation Squads from some fun shooting from behind the safety of the wrecked chimeras.

Finally, servo skulls. Always great to have, even better in an army that doesn't want you to get close.

-Matt

 Ailaros wrote:

I think GK would be one of the better armies for psychic defence, actually.

Really? In what way? The clexus isn't that great IMO (although I don't like any of them other than the Vindicare). The clexus doesn't have any way to stop psychic powers going off, it just rocks at shooting and in CC against psykers. Unfortunately, it has to get into CC first (iron arm FMCs don't tend to sit around waiting to be charged and the BS10 is rather irrelevant).

More to the point though, I was saying that if you're taking battle brothers for guard, then SW are the best option. The psychic defence is amazing, but the obvious synergy in the codex with divination psykers and drop pods really makes it stand out.

4++ on a blob is nice...it's a shame it's a 4++ fearless blob. ATSKNF is just superior for guard.

Shunting dk only work when supported, and I don't think IG can support a shunt well. On the other hand a dk with nothing but a heavy incinerator is in the price range of a hellhound. The hell hound is faster, but the dk is more durable and has cc abiliy

the dk can be hurt by small arms, but it is a waste of dakka. 36 S4 hits=1 wound on dk = bad target priority. It's better to drop the wounds on your scoring units and save plasma/lc for the ndk. It's not horribly vulnerable in cc like the hellhound.

it can also offer counter assault to advancing IG units While laying down torrent shots. shunt will only tempt you into shunting the dk away from units it is guarding.

6th ed is all about getting units on objectives.

As a mech guard palyer myself, I would say "very little". Unless you want to piss off deep-strikers, GKs just won't do anything that you can't do yourself, but for a lot cheaper. There are plenty of options in the GK codex where you might think "hey, that looks pretty sweet", only to realise that for the same cost you could get an Executioner with plasma sponsons and Marbo.

If you want power armour allies for guard, I'd look at Blood Angels. Personally been looking at taking BA allies so I can have an outflanking Bhaal, with some sniper scouts as troops and a librarian for pyskik good times.

You have a huge table advantage with Mech guard (plasme/melta)

I started bringing GK to my party since I stopped running Gun line, Imperial Wolves is great but since I play mech it doesn’t help me as much as Coteaz with a shooting Deathstar camping my backfield, let me see if I can explain.

Coteaz
3x Monkees (has to be 3)
9x Warrior Acolytes with Power Armor
I equip my WA’s with plasma, and Storm Bolters

Because I take Monkees by 3 I have just made my WA’s into mini Terminators (they automatically get 2+, 5++, and all shooting weapons are rending [both Storm Bolters/Plasma guns, and most importantly the Jokaero’s Heavy flamers....]).

With a (Prescience) via Coteaz they are BS 4.5,

For the amount of dudes this is a powerful shooting unit and if my meta needs it sprinkle some DCA’s for melee.

3 Monkees, 3 plasma WA’s, 4 Strom Bolter WA’s, and 2 DCA’s, with Coteaz’s stubborn and LDR 10 make a unit you cannot assault/shoot at effectively.

I park them in front of my Artillery (2 Manticores) to bubble wrap the big guns, Deep strikers get destroyed, because of IBEY, and 2 Divination powers a turn are phenomenal.

Not to mention since I take 2 units of CCS in chimera’s, my opponets have time and time again used valuable resources to engage my “Coteaz Warlord” only to realize that my actual Warlord is spitting out orders half way across the table. (I explain who my warlord at the beginning but most people ignore it for the “named” character on the field.)

If you don’t run Artillery, slap him in a Chimera (or a Stromraven) and push him along with the rest of your troops.

Its roughly the same amount of points as 6 terminators but I get 9 “terminators” and 3 monkees. 10x more killier.

Give it a shot, put the unit in the middle and soak up some firepower (which is what MechGuard needs in their allies.....a cheap sponge)

Scoring Terminators are the main thing you get IMO, they are far tougher to kill than your IG objective grabbers. And, they can stop a rush into your line if necessary.

 RegulusBlack wrote:

Because I take Monkees by 3 I have just made my WA’s into mini Terminators (they automatically get 2+, 5++, and all shooting weapons are rending [both Storm Bolters/Plasma guns, and most importantly the Jokaero’s Heavy flamers....]).

They automatically get that stuff? No, they don't.

yeah they kinda do, roll 3x (1 per monkee), 2+ per roll, (which means you can only get 3, 4, 5) 6 being redundant.

i'm telling you guys, this is an amazing unit. Veteran guard weapon loadouts with Terminator type saves.

 RegulusBlack wrote:
yeah they kinda do, roll 3x (1 per monkee), 2+ per roll, (which means you can only get 3, 4, 5) 6 being redundant.

i'm telling you guys, this is an amazing unit. Veteran guard weapon loadouts with Terminator type saves.

Sadly, this is not true. Read the rule again. "When An Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband containing one or more Jokaero is deployed, roll a D6 on the following chart." This means that you only roll one time for each unit with Jokaeros in it. You add one to the result for each Jokaero beyond the first. Also, you don't automatically gain any upgrades, if you roll a six and then the same upgrade twice you loose the second roll, you don't re-roll. You also loose further rolls of six.

The most effective amount of Jokaero to take is 2 in a unit. It gives you the least chance of gaining nothing.

you guys are absolutely correct (reading comprehension for the win) well, now i need to evaluate whether this is a must have in my army or just take more guard units.....sad