Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As I've said repeatedly; if it helps make the game better, good.

But I can't help read the repeated comments on "treading lightly" without thinking of unhealthy relationships.

It's good that you're giving feedback and it's being heard.

It's unfortunate that you have to apparently at least keep up the illusion of 'being on their side' for that voice to matter.

As long as you're not being a raging donkey cave about it, a good idea should stand on its merits alone, not because you fluffed it up with some flowers and praise.

Well, if I disagree with something, and honestly there is only minor things that I think should be changed, and I tell you all. Then I have broken confidence with them and fed the bottom feeders who will raise bloody hell and point fingers and say "You see! I knew it!". I do think it is very well done and I agree with 95%, not 98% of what is written and am working on the small changes and typos that I've see to have them remedied. I also have no idea how old of a variation of the rules I have are compared to what they have in their hands. What I have could be a few months old and some of the things changed. So what I mean by treading lightly has nothing to do with PB and their work ethics but more with me making sure that my exuberance to share does not cause me to share more than I should or break any confidences.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm trying to be fair and respectful for both sides and totally up front with it all.

Well said Mike. So is there anymore you could tell us without breaking your contract? Have you had a chance to put your minis together?

I don't know why but there's a spat going on in the update section over semantics.

Mike, no pressure (I made it so I'm biased) but I'm a bit surprised that you have the generic post track/rank system and not the Macross one. Is that a conscious choice? If not and you didnt know about it, you can choose a specific track with themed titles under "edit your profile" if you click on your name link.

well, I've emailed PB to see how much I can share about the stats as I play. How far I can go and what they consider is fair play since this is not specified in the NDA. I'd love to share all the stats but that would take away any thunder on any stat cards that they would like to share down the line. I will share as much as I can when I play a game. I think I will post some of MY stat cards for the Battlepods and Glaug later tonight since those have been played in Demos and the stats are pretty much known.

I will go over initiative, LOS, and some other things as I play to explain how the rules work and to share how quick and easy it really is to play.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So as an example if I say that I only have a few "Official" stat cards many would yell and say "Hey, see, the game is not written!", while if I say that I have copies of all of the stat cards others will say " Look, see, the game is already done and they will not change anything no matter what even if something truly messed up is found!" This is one reason why I must tread light. Not because of ND but because readers will take things and misconstrue them or interpret them to fit their interpretations of the events. It's not that they are doing anything blatantly wrong. That is just human nature and part of what makes us what we are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hope that makes sense to you guys and helps clarify things.

Mike, while I agree that you should tread lightly on what you do and do not post, I think you're blowing out of proportion the responses you'd get. People know you only have what palladium gave you and you'll (probably.. don't know your exact arrangement) likely not get additional shipments if things are changed. People will yell "Hey, see, the game is not written" because the 98% completed "final^4" game (even if subjectively and incorrectly shrunk to just the starter for the reference) with rules that were supposedly finished months ago and approved by HG is still being tweaked... not because you mention you only have a portion of the stat cards.

It's a bit depressing but I checked out the Kingdom Death thread as it was another >$1,000,000 kickstarter with 5k+ pledgers that was supposed to deliver by Christmas (albeit started earlier) to see how the progress is going there. The creator has been communicating in a detailed and substantial fashion despite the delays and posting plastic sprue (both unassembled and assembled) pics. If he is at that stage (multiple steps BEYOND palladium/ND's efforts) and expects a Q2 delivery date.. well.. you can just do the math yourself.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster/posts

Warboss, You may be right, I'm typically a the glass is half empty and usually don't put much trust in people.

 Alpharius wrote:
I cannot imagine the uproar that is going to take place when they show up at Gencon with box sets and 'convention exclusives' for sale before they ship anything to the backers...

They will absolutely pull a CMON and have sets for sale at Gencon, while backers will still be waiting in December to get all their items (as I was).

 Salacious Greed wrote:

I believe that they will cut the box set sprue molds first, and do production runs of those, and get the core boxed game without extras into our hands by Gencon, then sell the game and other plastics that they fly in at Gencon, and call it good.

"We delivered to our Backers first, just like we said we would! What?? So we sold some Monsters and other cool things you were supposed to get, but they're coming, you're going to get yours!"

Hm, you just made me realise the other half of that - if they ship the base game early, it will only be to US backers. If you're international, you'll get the "it's too expensive, tough gak, you'll get it when you get it" that Reaper pulled in Bones 1 with Paints and Sophies - and is being pulled right now with Myth - which was supposedly "all ready to arrive, completely finished in December" - but bumped to Jan "for tax" - before they slipped it to "by June for foreigners" right as Jan hit...

 Forar wrote:
As I've said repeatedly; if it helps make the game better, good.
But I can't help read the repeated comments on "treading lightly" without thinking of unhealthy relationships.
It's good that you're giving feedback and it's being heard.
It's unfortunate that you have to apparently at least keep up the illusion of 'being on their side' for that voice to matter.
As long as you're not being a raging donkey cave about it, a good idea should stand on its merits alone, not because you fluffed it up with some flowers and praise.

Unfortunately for some personality types it is all in how an opinion or idea is presented and how it would be of benefit to them rather than it's inherent merit.

In some instances in a workplace how well a proposal is received is in direct proportion of how little work it represents.

Unfortunately there would not be many opportunities to demonstrate to the top guy how a given rule improves the game when they will not play it.

It is a challenge, I suspect the only way that carefully made rules will survive is keeping Kevin informed at all steps to get his "buy-in" and avoid the last minute re-write / reboot while ensuring he gets credit as an author.

It will always be a potential for a re-write; it is the only item that with his skill sets that he would feel the most comfortable putting his "stamp' on it, re-doing models or the color graphics intensive cards would not be an option. It also has the option to be FAQ'ed later or a second edition to be sold in short order so it is all good.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/27744.html

'Robotech RPG Tactics' Pushed Back Again
Plus Additional Details
Published: 01/30/2014 01:31am

Palladium Books has announced a new release date for Robotech RPG Tactics, plus additional information about the first releases for the game. The main box game and the first six expansion packs are now expected to ship in June, with "unbridled enthusiasm and lack of experience" blamed for the previously announced release date(s). The game was originally announced as a Fall 2013 release, but was pushed back to February 2014 in November (see "'Robotech RPG Tactics' Delayed").

Final prices for the trade release were also announced (tentative prices were previously announced with the product details (see "More Details on 'Robotech RPG Tactics'"). The main box game will be priced at $99.95, with the expansions prices as follow:

UEDF Valkyrie Wing $36.95
UEDF Destroid Pack $32.95
UEDF Spartan Pack $32.95
Zentraedi Regult Battlepod Squadron $36.95
Zentraedi Support Battlepods $36.95
Zentraedi Command Pack $36.95

Robotech RPG Tactics is the #6 highest-grossing tabletop game funded through Kickstarter (see "Top 10 Tabletop Game Kickstarters"), with over $1.4 million raised from around 5300 backers.

Emphasis mine.

Well, that's something. No idea how accurate it might be, but it falls in line with what we've been assuming and reading between the lines for a while now.

The only surprise was detailed pricing info, which seems to have seen a 10-20% MSRP hike, which means those who bought into the KS got an even better deal, and those who pre-ordered through ebay or other sites that took money should have gotten a slightly better deal (saved a buck or two per pack, though the savings on the core box will be more significant), assuming the sellers don't try to renegotiate for that reason, or have to cancel and refund orders.

Thanks for the ICV2 post; since they publish a magazine for retailers, I'm guessing that is the info being passed around from Palladium to those channels. They may not be mum with them since Palladium doesn't already have retailers' money cashed yet (unlike us!).

At this point though, the buyers on ebay are completely at the mercy of the sellers. By the time it arrives, they won't be able to get their money back via paypal nor will they be able to even leave feedback. Effectively, the seller could deliver nothing and their only recourse would be a small claims lawsuit.

Certainly, though my experiences with one seller that has been listing those boxes for months now were all very good, so I'm not too worried about them failing their customers.

 Forar wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/27744.html

'Robotech RPG Tactics' Pushed Back Again
Plus Additional Details
Published: 01/30/2014 01:31am

Palladium Books has announced a new release date for Robotech RPG Tactics, plus additional information about the first releases for the game. The main box game and the first six expansion packs are now expected to ship in June, with "unbridled enthusiasm and lack of experience" blamed for the previously announced release date(s). The game was originally announced as a Fall 2013 release, but was pushed back to February 2014 in November (see "'Robotech RPG Tactics' Delayed").

Final prices for the trade release were also announced (tentative prices were previously announced with the product details (see "More Details on 'Robotech RPG Tactics'"). The main box game will be priced at $99.95, with the expansions prices as follow:

UEDF Valkyrie Wing $36.95
UEDF Destroid Pack $32.95
UEDF Spartan Pack $32.95
Zentraedi Regult Battlepod Squadron $36.95
Zentraedi Support Battlepods $36.95
Zentraedi Command Pack $36.95

Robotech RPG Tactics is the #6 highest-grossing tabletop game funded through Kickstarter (see "Top 10 Tabletop Game Kickstarters"), with over $1.4 million raised from around 5300 backers.

I looked at the pre-order prices on The Warstore. They raised the prices by $6.95 on the Valkyries, Battlepods and Support Battlepods. A $1.95 on the Command Pack, and $2.95 on the Destroid and Spartans. It is quite funny that all of the costs are paid for and they jack the prices up even more. Let's hope the rules are good enough to keep this game in production, that there are lots of people playing this.

And I really hope that they have learned something to offset their "unbridled enthusiasm and lack of experience" if they plan to run another KS.

This also plays right into my prediction that they only get us the Core Boxed Game before Gencon, deliver all the other plastics after. All of these kits are from the core set.


On another point, I haven't watched Robotech in several years. Is the Female Power Armor really that big, compared to the Battloid Valkyries? The Max and Myria specials make the Female Power Armor look huge!

Considering Zentradi are as large as a Valk and the FPA has to house a full sized Zentradi...

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 Forar wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/27744.html

'Robotech RPG Tactics' Pushed Back Again
Plus Additional Details
Published: 01/30/2014 01:31am

Palladium Books has announced a new release date for Robotech RPG Tactics, plus additional information about the first releases for the game. The main box game and the first six expansion packs are now expected to ship in June, with "unbridled enthusiasm and lack of experience" blamed for the previously announced release date(s). The game was originally announced as a Fall 2013 release, but was pushed back to February 2014 in November (see "'Robotech RPG Tactics' Delayed").

Final prices for the trade release were also announced (tentative prices were previously announced with the product details (see "More Details on 'Robotech RPG Tactics'"). The main box game will be priced at $99.95, with the expansions prices as follow:

UEDF Valkyrie Wing $36.95
UEDF Destroid Pack $32.95
UEDF Spartan Pack $32.95
Zentraedi Regult Battlepod Squadron $36.95
Zentraedi Support Battlepods $36.95
Zentraedi Command Pack $36.95

Robotech RPG Tactics is the #6 highest-grossing tabletop game funded through Kickstarter (see "Top 10 Tabletop Game Kickstarters"), with over $1.4 million raised from around 5300 backers.

I looked at the pre-order prices on The Warstore. They raised the prices by $6.95 on the Valkyries, Battlepods and Support Battlepods. A $1.95 on the Command Pack, and $2.95 on the Destroid and Spartans. It is quite funny that all of the costs are paid for and they jack the prices up even more. Let's hope the rules are good enough to keep this game in production, that there are lots of people playing this.

And I really hope that they have learned something to offset their "unbridled enthusiasm and lack of experience" if they plan to run another KS.

This also plays right into my prediction that they only get us the Core Boxed Game before Gencon, deliver all the other plastics after. All of these kits are from the core set.


On another point, I haven't watched Robotech in several years. Is the Female Power Armor really that big, compared to the Battloid Valkyries? The Max and Myria specials make the Female Power Armor look huge!

The FPA is huge. Just think the VF is the size of a Zen warrior. How much bigger must the FPA to hold a warrior, missiles, engines, et al.

As far as the first items listed for sale they have ALWAYS said that the initial public release would only be a few of the primary figs and later releases would add to that so this should not be anything new and should not be misconstrued as something more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact only what is in the Box set will be seen in the initial public release if I remember correctly so no Mac II.

Mike1975 wrote:
If there are any things seen as serious flaws like the HtH thing I hope to showcase them on my demos and maybe they can get changed so please point out any concerns or flaws and I will try to play them out and report on what I think to you and PB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Concerns
1. Hand to Hand
2. Line of Sight Rules
3. Dodges, Roll, and sheer number of dice rolls needed.
4. ?

That mainly covers what jumped out at me from the limited info they posted. I'd throw in there skirmish army composition being able to use all your figures in some limited fashion as well as possibly anti-missile fire as a possible concern. I say possible for that last one as I'm not sure how effective it ends up being and having every battlepod getting AA fire feels a bit off (but admittedly I've never played it in person so I can't say with any certainty).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Salacious Greed wrote:

On another point, I haven't watched Robotech in several years. Is the Female Power Armor really that big, compared to the Battloid Valkyries? The Max and Myria specials make the Female Power Armor look huge!

A pic from some of the original concept art I found on the macross mecha manual site. Warning.. nsfw. Obviously it shows a female and not a male but we know that the veritech is roughly the same size and girth of a male zentraedi. I'd imagine that the battloid would be bigger than the female but that still leaves it substantially smaller than the power armor. That and you can surprisingly find alot of fan pics apparently of miriya in various stages of undress when doing a quick google image search of "robotech miriya".

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/queadluun-rau/queadluun-rau-cockpit.gif

Mike1975 wrote:

The FPA is huge. Just think the VF is the size of a Zen warrior. How much bigger must the FPA to hold a warrior, missiles, engines, et al.

As far as the first items listed for sale they have ALWAYS said that the initial public release would only be a few of the primary figs and later releases would add to that so this should not be anything new and should not be misconstrued as something more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact only what is in the Box set will be seen in the initial public release if I remember correctly so no Mac II.

Mike, I agree with what you said here completely. However, what I was pointing out is this: [please note these times are not in order, just laying out times, not a timeline!]

March (31 days) to cut those 6 (minimum) molds to make the base game and those 6 boxes.

April (30 days) for a boat to sail from China to the U.S. to get the models to PB/ND.

May (31 days) to actually make the sprues, packaging and get it all put together with the dice, markers, etc for 5300 backers and how many retail core games and supplemental boxes?

So, No where in there is there time to put ANY of the other models on that boat and get into the backers hands by June. It will be a small miracle if they can get all the remaining molds cut by June 1st. So, a bit disappointing that they're going to short change us, step up and say they kept their word.

Concerns
1. Hand to Hand
2. Line of Sight Rules
3. Dodges, Roll, and sheer number of dice rolls needed.
4. Anti-Missile

That mainly covers what jumped out at me from the limited info they posted. I'd throw in there skirmish army composition being able to use all your figures in some limited fashion as well as possibly anti-missile fire as a possible concern. I say possible for that last one as I'm not sure how effective it ends up being and having every battlepod getting AA fire feels a bit off (but admittedly I've never played it in person so I can't say with any certainty).

Well Battlepods can only shoot what is shot at them. All units can spend a command point and try to shoot down missiles but you need a 6. Anti-Missile makes the roll a free one, no longer costing command points and working on a 5+. So that's a 1 in 3 of shooting down missiles. Some missiles that have Anti-missile get a 4+. So I don't see this as a game changer but it does improve a battlepods life expectancy. On the other hand if you have a Scout with your guys you can also get a free dodge roll (no command point cost) if the AM fails. At least that is what the early release rules said. I will have to double check and make sure this is unchanged.

So honestly there is a chance but I don't see this killing gameplay but rather as enhancing it and making things closer to what you'd see in the cartoon.

Mike1975 wrote:


So honestly there is a chance but I don't see this killing gameplay but rather as enhancing it and making things closer to what you'd see in the cartoon.

I don't recall seeing much "anti-missile" fire from backwards facing battlepods. They occassionally dodged but usually just died to missiles. I realize if they're true to the OSM that the guns have to do something but from a tabletop perspective giving each and every one of them seems to be a cluttering and unneeded step. From a game theory perspective, it seems like having an AA weapon would be better off giving you a better chance to destroy the missiles (like a 4+ instead of a 5+) but still require you to spend a command point (thereby allowing particularly important pods a chance to survive but at a "cost" without giving every pod a chance and slowing down the game). YMMV and that again is just theory based off of the TV show that palladium said they were trying to emulate.

Hey, if that is the way you guys like to play it. Houserule it and go for it. I see no problem in playing the game your way. Shoot I've done that a lot of times myself.

If I want to play an incomplete and clunky game that needs me to do a significant portion of the game design work via house rules, I'll play the RPG. House rules become an issue in pick up games significantly more than RPGs which tend to (ideally) have stable groups under one "leader" GM. The usual palladium style solution of "just house rule it" doesn't work well in complete stranger tabletop game situations. I understand you don't mean anything by the comment but a response of "just house rule it" is an infuriating go to answer for everything for decades from Palladium RPG white knights. They'll ironically refuse to "house rule" a new edition back into their old one if it invalidates their books after only 20 years of use but they're ok with spouting it off when someone isn't happy with the rules.

 warboss wrote:

A pic from some of the original concept art I found on the macross mecha manual site. Warning.. nsfw. Obviously it shows a female and not a male but we know that the veritech is roughly the same size and girth of a male zentraedi. I'd imagine that the battloid would be bigger than the female but that still leaves it substantially smaller than the power armor. That and you can surprisingly find alot of fan pics apparently of miriya in various stages of undress when doing a quick google image search of "robotech miriya".

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/queadluun-rau/queadluun-rau-cockpit.gif

Yes, I understand that, but from the digital prints that they did, the FPA towers over the battlepods, which each have a pilot in them, and the cartoon has males riding on them also. So it just seems that the FPA is oversized in comparison to the battlepods. Wonder if the MPA will be as large too.

 warboss wrote:
If I want to play an incomplete and clunky game that needs me to do a significant portion of the game design work via house rules, I'll play the RPG. House rules become an issue in pick up games significantly more than RPGs which tend to (ideally) have stable groups under one "leader" GM. The usual palladium style solution of "just house rule it" doesn't work well in complete stranger tabletop game situations. I understand you don't mean anything by the comment but a response of "just house rule it" is an infuriating go to answer for everything for decades from Palladium RPG white knights. They'll ironically refuse to "house rule" a new edition back into their old one if it invalidates their books after only 20 years of use but they're ok with spouting it off when someone isn't happy with the rules.

To be fair there are 4 things that concern you. I explained one and it does not meet your idea of what the mechanics should be. I've played it out in a few games and I think it works quite well. Nobody will ever have a system that they like everything for. Battletech, one of my favs has a lot of things that are slow, clunky, and make no sense, but I still manage to enjoy the game immensely. We sometimes played as if the AC5 did 8 damage and the AC 2 as if it did 4. There are numerous additional rules in the new rulesbooks that can be used. That does not mean I scrap the system and move on. If you think Anti-missile should have a better chance to shoot down missiles play it that way. I was not trying to think or play the way PB people play since the last time I've played an RPG was over 20 years ago.

That being said you have to try to match "cartoon realism" with mecha stats and then put it on a game table and make it fun and playable. I honestly believe that this will be what you will see when the time comes. You might not like one thing or another. There is NO WAY in the world that everyone can be pleased since we all have different ideas on what this game should be like. Some want less detail, others more. I personally like a bit more detail but I understand that adding too much will slow down the game, especially for those new to mini gaming and possibly hurt the game with newer players. I have not heard of a system yet that is universally liked and preferred. So in all I was not trying to infuriate just give an honest option, one that I have done myself on multiple occaisions. Remember I've not posted or played anything Palladium related until I heard about this KS.

So the other concerns remain
1. Hand to Hand (I've expressed concerns)
2. Line of Sight Rules (I will give more details when I play out a game or two)
3. Dodges, Roll, and sheer number of dice rolls needed. (Same as #2)

So if at that point there are still major concerns, please bring them up! It's like in a Brainstorming meeting, there are no bad ideas except the ones not brought to the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Battlepod Size vs Mechwarrior Size

http://www.deviantart.com/art/ROBOTECH-Meltran-Pod-Ace-259542732

http://leelf.deviantart.com/art/ROBOTECH-Quadronno-Combat-Ace-368842583

Here's a snip from the weekly update:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Palladium will be sending out a separate announcement about Robotech® RPG Tactics™ that we think will make people happy. You can expect to see it later tonight or Friday.

Meanwhile, with the Chinese New Year in full swing, we won’t have much new to report for a couple of weeks. After that, we expect to be able to give you more news about manufacturing and progress. I can say that Jeff Burke continues to work diligently creating a comprehensive Macross Mecha Color Guide and he’s about 80% done. Looking good. Meanwhile, Ninja Division and Palladium are both continuing to finish and fine-tune other aspects of the product line. Again, Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is absolutely coming out in 2014 and Kickstarter supporters will get product before retail. This game is going to be epic fun.

I couldn't help but giggle at the 80% comment. At least Forar dosent have to take any shots.lol

I caught that too.

My liver and I are both appreciative.

The 9 is gone but I still see an 8. Does that mean you only drink half a draft?

Nah, got a work party tomorrow that'll likely get out of hand.

Sticking to water.

Mike1975 wrote:
Hey, if that is the way you guys like to play it. Houserule it and go for it. I see no problem in playing the game your way. Shoot I've done that a lot of times myself.

Just want to say...

Please don't let these rules degenerate into what GW has done. Excusing poor rules with "Just 4+ it." Or "Just house rule it." Is plain bad news bears.

I'm not saying you're there yet, and I understand why you said that here, I just wanted to voice that.

rigeld2 wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
Hey, if that is the way you guys like to play it. Houserule it and go for it. I see no problem in playing the game your way. Shoot I've done that a lot of times myself.

Just want to say...

Please don't let these rules degenerate into what GW has done. Excusing poor rules with "Just 4+ it." Or "Just house rule it." Is plain bad news bears.

I'm not saying you're there yet, and I understand why you said that here, I just wanted to voice that.

Agreed and that was my point. Mike, I know you didn't mean anything by the statement (and said that earlier) but you inadvertently used a flashpoint phrase in relation to anything Palladium. House ruling has been the defacto excuse/solution for everything with Palladium for the past two decades so you may want to stay away from that particular set of words. No offense meant and certainly none taken.

80%? Did they subcontract the minis to RaginShiroz?