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 judgedoug wrote:
I don't know about you but I plan on only putting one option on a pod

if I'm not mistaken, unless one wished to make a 'Frankenmecha' for the Malcontents, each Artillery pod is only supposed to have one option.

Personally, I have 12 of them coming, but only plan to keep 8, so to keep my options open I'm thinking I'll magnetize them. That way I can have a standard squad (4 Light, 2 Heavy) and a Support card pair of them of my choice (Light, Heavy or Tesla), or 1-4 support cards of choice (8 Lights one game, 8 heavies the next), etc.

8 magnets and 24 little metal pieces (or 32 magnets if I just go with those) and some sand paper to roughen things up and keep them aimed as I like should do it, and I think I've got just the right size of rare earth magnets to do it too.

Planning to do the same thing with the Experimental Phalanxes (of which I'll have 4, but would need between 8 and 24 magnets to do) as well. The FPA/MPA remain to be seen, both in terms of how difficult it'll be for their options, and how much I care about playing the Zentraedi side by the time those figures arrive.

I've talked with Amazon Payments (about the Defiant Games Hardsuits KS, I got duped into backing that one.. ) and they said that they are more than willing to work with your Credit Card company on reversing the charges. So if you are looking for a refund, contact your Credit Card company and explain to them the situation that the product you paid for has not been delivered in the time frame initially given, and they will most likely issue a refund.

 Alpharius wrote:
wufai - you seem to be stating things in terms of absolutes which really don't exist.

Do you have a dog in this fight?

Sorry if I have offended anyone, I have to learn to respect the fact everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I don't even know what 'have a dog in this fight?' means? can someone please explain?

I guess I was a bit saddened to know a lot of people don't share my view of kickstarter. I backed this Robotech thing becuase I like the concept and wish PB would succeed, I really didn't expect much, just a very very very slim hope the game would be great and take off so us wargamers will have another option to try instead of the same old GW and PP. I completly expected delays in this projects, since the initial estimate of Dec 13 is intended for just reaching 100% funding, of course there would be delays with the level of backers and funding and promises of new models recieved. I didn't follow Robotech kickstarter updates too much until recently. So I guess I didn't understand the 'promises' made by PB eariler. But I alreadly have a good sense with the production and logistic issues of this company I won't expect anything from them until Chrismtas 2014.

I support them becuase I know PB is trying to produce their first 'wargame', unlike Mantic and Reaper, they really don't know anything about the process of making minitures. So of course they will make a lot of promises they can't keep. They are just normal dudes like us who try to venture into a new project but don't understand what they are getting into. Basically most of the companies I backed run into this problem. Kingdom death, Relic Knights, heck, even Reapers whom made all the right moves and fulfilled their promise to start shipping on March I didn't get my package until July just due to the amont of backers they need to ship to. I followed that Kickstarter very closely and reaslied how hard it really is to undergo a miniture project on that scale. I can definetly tell you PB will proboly break a few more promises before you see your minitures before Dec 2014 or even 2015.

Still I'm glad I can be a part of PB's kickstarter to make Robotech a reality (and I get a lot of models, I admit too I didn't do it out of sheer goodwill) even though it has been delayed. Again, I really don't understand the logic of asking for a refund. PB has invested all the money into making the project already, if refunds are freely given back how could they possibily continue on with the project? its either the money has been spent towards the project or will halt the project due to lack of funds?

Just how 'invested' are the forum posters who wants a refund? Honestly I'm not in too deep becuase I know when backing, PB is not a miniture company so I never held high expections of their quality or realiability. I just got myself a Battlecry and a Battlefoam bag. I was thinking of the SDF1 resin but last minute I got cold feet and dropped that order. Perhaps that's why I'm not too concern of the delays?

wufai wrote:
I don't even know what 'have a dog in this fight?' means? can someone please explain?

Whether or not you have 'skin in the game', or any sort of vested interest either way.

You said your a backer, so yeah, you do.

But sometimes people just like to play "Devil's advocate", and even with good intentions, it can get obnoxious.

since the initial estimate of Dec 13 is intended for just reaching 100% funding, of course there would be delays with the level of backers and funding and promises of new models recieved.

Yeah, see, this would hold more water if they hadn't, literally the day after the campaign ended, shot themselves in the foot with the "maybe we'll even deliver in November, possibly October!" quote. Not only did that heighten hopes that they were even further along than they said, but combined with the "factory slot 45 days after the campaign ends" statement, it shouldn't be unreasonable to have taken that as a promising sign. It's bullgak to say "oh, they just expected 70k! They totally didn't account for all the extra models they added!" We had no way of knowing that. If they had said "guys, thanks, this is amazing, but man, so many models, this might take an extra 6 months, see you in June!" it'd be another story. But they didn't. They doubled down on 'the derp'.

I didn't follow Robotech kickstarter updates too much until recently.

Then, to be blunt, you have no idea why we're frustrated. Because some of us DID follow the updates, and for months, and months, and months, they and the PB weekly newsletters have been waxing at length about how far along they were, and how much work they've been putting in, and everyone in the office loves it, and you're going to love it, on and on and on and on and on.

they really don't know anything about the process of making minitures.

Which is why they had ND on hand, who supposedly DO have experience with miniatures.

So of course they will make a lot of promises they can't keep. They are just normal dudes like us who try to venture into a new project but don't understand what they are getting into.

No. Wrong. Bad. See me after class. Starting a new business venture is risky, but part of that venture is assessing those risks, researching potential pitfalls, and building in contingencies, in terms of both time and money. This is a reason to be understanding, but that does not absolve PB of their responsibilities.

Again, I really don't understand the logic of asking for a refund. PB has invested all the money into making the project already, if refunds are freely given back how could they possibily continue on with the project? its either the money has been spent towards the project or will halt the project due to lack of funds?

We have no idea how much this may or may not be the case. They have roughly 2 dozen more models to deliver on. If they blew through 1.4 million just designing and making the first dozen, they done feth'd up bad. As in, someone needs to take the reigns from them, because they can't be trusted with a butter knife, let alone the funding from 5.5k backers.

Just how 'invested' are the forum posters who wants a refund? Honestly I'm not in too deep becuase I know when backing, PB is not a miniture company so I never held high expections of their quality or realiability. I just got myself a Battlecry and a Battlefoam bag. I was thinking of the SDF1 resin but last minute I got cold feet and dropped that order. Perhaps that's why I'm not too concern of the delays?

Some of them are in for a couple hundred, at least one is in for $1,500. If they have the funds to spare, getting those backers off their case and repurposing those figures for retail, Gencon or other sales basically doubles their money. If they don't, then again, they've screwed up even more badly than most of us assume.

Personally, I'm in for about $700 out of the $1,500 me and my friends backed for. We've not given up, but they and I are tired of the lies, or the incompetence, or whatever combination of both it is that has caused them to get to this point.

If you're not bothered, that's great. But as I said before, if you really don't understand the frustration, start from Page 1 of this thread and read forward. See the backers who joined despite Palladium being involved. The reluctance that was overcome by Ninja Division's smooth campaign, and the concern that erupted after it became clear that it was the PB show. The weeks and months of waiting to even see a hint of progress, despite having been told that all was great and coming along and... oops, delivery date slid back another 2 months!

Seriously, you say you don't get it, but the answers are here, across 130 pages of fine reading material.

Alright Forar, thanks for that clarification. I guess those who followed daily on this project will be fustruated by the info PB gave.

I personally only look at PB updates whenever there is info on the bag involved. I didn't pay any attention to the rules or progress of the models at all until the last update with photos of the sprue.

and again sorry to those whom I offeneded through my opinion.

wufai wrote:


I personally only look at PB updates whenever there is info on the bag involved. I didn't pay any attention to the rules or progress of the models at all until the last update with photos of the sprue.

Out of curiosity, why would you not pay attention to the two primary pieces of the game.....

 judgedoug wrote:

 jacobus wrote:
Maybe I'm so frustrated with them nothing will make me happy, but I thought the reasoning for the massive part counts was so the models would offer variations in poses. If this is the case, then why are the legs one piece? Also, I'm counting between 25-30 parts per artillery pod. Am I wrong on this? If I were building one or two for an army, I might be cool with that, but jeez. That's between 150-175 parts just for those six sprues.

I don't know about you but I plan on only putting one option on a pod, so that reduces the part count considerably.

Looks like:

body
rear hatch
two legs
two feet
two thrusters
two ball joint particle guns
two ball joint smaller guns
one artillery connector
then your choice of small missiles, big missiles, or big ass particle guns

So about 13 base parts for a, what, 60mm tall model? Plus the artillery piece option. That's about the same size as a Tau suit, right?

It's actually 15 (there's two separate hip joints), and then either 1 (Particle Cannons) or 6 extra (Rocket Pods are three pieces per pod). So 16-21 pieces. With regular Regults coming in at 15 + base + optional flight stand.

And it may be equivalent to a GW miniature, but there are a lot of miniatures out there that have similar detailing, are of a similar size, and come in less than half that number of components. In addition, a significant number of those connections are small, and load bearing. While the plastic has little weight, there's the issue of handling, that anything short of plastic weld glues (which have their own problems) will stress during standard play.

Cause he doesn't care about it?

 cincydooley wrote:

wufai wrote:


I personally only look at PB updates whenever there is info on the bag involved. I didn't pay any attention to the rules or progress of the models at all until the last update with photos of the sprue.

Out of curiosity, why would you not pay attention to the two primary pieces of the game.....

its because I have a predetmined expectication of the game, its going to be a skirmish game with game pieces. I already know the quality of the model won't be GW quality and the rules will not be execllent on their first try. I am still basing the assumption that the models and rules will be to a standard I saw on their kickstarter videos. I'm pretty confident in the end I can get the models to look decent, even if I have to spend extra work modelling and painting. if the rules can maintain something similiar I saw on their demo I'm OK with the too.

The bag however I never had any real assuarance on what the end product would look like. They didn't have the specifics during the Kickstarter except it will be a bag from Battlefoam. I like battlefoam and already own a 720. I was hoping against hope that this bag can fit the foam from my 720. I started really looking into the updates again when PB showed off the final design of the bag. It seems like a rebranded 432 to me and was extra happy the foam included will fit all the content of the battlecry (which is the only thing I ordered) and the cuttings seems like a good size for other minitures gaming as well ala warmahordes. The quality of the bag is there too... its more in line with the PACK line then their economy line.

The cost of the bag through the kickstarter saved me quite a bit in terms of shipping and retail cost over a custom 432.

That's just it wufai. The minis you saw in the videos won't be what your getting whenever the models do finally come in.

Your reasoning is confusing to me. You were more concerned about the battlefoam bag, of which you already have an example of, than the rules or the minis you were pledging for? Whaaaaaa?

I like how now, from the same starting date (good comparison since DZ ran at the same time), Mantic is set to have delivered two waves of Deadzone, all of Mars Attacks!, and all of or one wave if they're splitting it of Dreadball Xtreme, in the same time that Palladium will possibly get two waves of RRT out. That's some real quality work from Palladium right there.

NTRabbit wrote:
I like how now, from the same starting date (good comparison since DZ ran at the same time), Mantic is set to have delivered two waves of Deadzone, all of Mars Attacks!, and all of or one wave if they're splitting it of Dreadball Xtreme, in the same time that Palladium will possibly get two waves of RRT out. That's some real quality work from Palladium right there.

That's why I get so frustrated when I get told "Kickstarters are ALWAYS late.". Yeah, not if they're reasonably managed. I initially wasn't going to go in for DBX (getting it slower over time via retail), but the reliability of Mantic convinced me otherwise.

And honestly, at this point, it's quite conceivable that Mantic will have delivered on EVERYTHING before we see anything from Palladium. Because at the moment, we're looking at 4 months, if they start production today. Production run, pack and ship to port, customs, ship lee time (ships can sometimes wait a week or more before being fully loaded), ship transport time, customs USA edition, transport to Michigan, unpacking, box assembly, quality control for obvious defects, shipping to backers/Euro distribution point. Assuming nothing goes wrong. Because we all know that PB are blessed against Murphy's Law.

Which they can't do, because only one sprue is apparently approved. And the Veritechs, undoubtedly the most iconic and important miniature in the entire franchise, still hasn't seen pre-production prototype "Any day now" is apparently a euphemism for "We have no f'n idea", based on prior knowledge. And we don't know how much of all this has to get re-passed up the chain to Harmony Gold, and if there are any changes they have (because them sticking their noses in at this point wouldn't be unprecedented, apparently), I can easily see (though admittedly don't expect) a post November delivery for Wave 1. All it takes is a couple of significant delays in the timeline, and PB performing to par, and it's possible. After all, they were saying in September they could still make December, November they could still make February, and their webstore still says "Spring 2014". So I'm not expecting any knowledge of timelines from them.

I have to agree that the most worrying thing at the moment is the lack of information about the Veritechs - apart from that exploded model they posted a while back. Yes the update was appreciated and the artillry pod sprue layout came from nowhere and to be fair was better than I expected and allayed some fears but these are dare I say the "key" models to the whole project

I will be happy enough if the next update give us the layout for the three versions but I know it is not likely. Get a feeling that they might rush into production without giving backers any sightof what is on the sprues and simply commit to it to use the booked factory time, meet the contract with HG and have something to show (or sell) at GenCon.

This is the risk with KS's so I will have to live with it, but compared to others which also are running late the handling and willingness to work and communicate with your customers (who have already put the money in) is second rate.

At a rough count, Wave One contains 12 different figures.

They've shown us a test run of sprues for 1.

Yeah, Morgan's layout against needing to see progress on 11 more, I'm not feeling confident.

The "Gencon Suicide Pact" to have product on hand by August looms, but if it becomes clear they're going to miss it no matter what, I can definitely see them dropping all the pressure and just letting things take however long they take.

Hell, the next big target would be Winter to get a stab at some of that sweet retailer cash, which would buy them another 3 months or so. Also, a lot of ire, but hey, if they're gonna get that anyway...

Some of the players realized that the Star Wars miniatures game and Tactics were the same scale. So they got to talking about conversions and playing both together and we looked at some quick conversions. Here are some stats for anyone interested. I think I will make up some stat cards for these this coming weekend if I have time so if you think they are off, feel free to give your 2 cents. Attached are some of the Tactics units for comparison.

I was not one of the players that realised this. Holy crap, are they!

Rules to use Veritechs in X-Wing? Those are rules we might actually use.

 cincydooley wrote:

wufai wrote:


I personally only look at PB updates whenever there is info on the bag involved. I didn't pay any attention to the rules or progress of the models at all until the last update with photos of the sprue.

Out of curiosity, why would you not pay attention to the two primary pieces of the game.....

Possibly, like me, he got into the KS because he likes the show?


I only went in for the character pieces as I'm a modeller more than a gamer and would love the SDF-1 sitting in my room. So I went in for the single characters, and they are certainly not going to be coming in wave 1, so I don't believe they will be in the USA, never mind with me in blighty, before the end of the year.

I know that the SDF-1 was stated to be in resin, and therefore could be being worked on independantly of the IP 'sprues' of the basic craft, but there has been absolute butkiss in the way of news about it - or any of the other characters. So I have to assume that there is no progress on any of them, and I am being punished for not wanting to spend a lot more on a skirmish game I'd probably never play. Therefore I am not interested in core squadrons of Zentradi or Veritechs, I want Roy Fokker, Khyron, The SDF-1, and all the other KS only specials that I pledged for.

PB scored big time with me for saying that I only had to pay once for shipping, not adding the shipping cost to each and every model I ordered, but I am also prepared for the standard ultimatum of "Either we'll ship your order only when every last part is complete, (sometime in 2020) or you can pony up an additional $15 shipping on each and we'll send them as soon as they become available to UK pledgers whose surnames begin with a "W".
/

 Forar wrote:

Spoiler:

wufai wrote:
I don't even know what 'have a dog in this fight?' means? can someone please explain?

Whether or not you have 'skin in the game', or any sort of vested interest either way.

You said your a backer, so yeah, you do.

But sometimes people just like to play "Devil's advocate", and even with good intentions, it can get obnoxious.

since the initial estimate of Dec 13 is intended for just reaching 100% funding, of course there would be delays with the level of backers and funding and promises of new models recieved.

Yeah, see, this would hold more water if they hadn't, literally the day after the campaign ended, shot themselves in the foot with the "maybe we'll even deliver in November, possibly October!" quote. Not only did that heighten hopes that they were even further along than they said, but combined with the "factory slot 45 days after the campaign ends" statement, it shouldn't be unreasonable to have taken that as a promising sign. It's bullgak to say "oh, they just expected 70k! They totally didn't account for all the extra models they added!" We had no way of knowing that. If they had said "guys, thanks, this is amazing, but man, so many models, this might take an extra 6 months, see you in June!" it'd be another story. But they didn't. They doubled down on 'the derp'.

I didn't follow Robotech kickstarter updates too much until recently.

Then, to be blunt, you have no idea why we're frustrated. Because some of us DID follow the updates, and for months, and months, and months, they and the PB weekly newsletters have been waxing at length about how far along they were, and how much work they've been putting in, and everyone in the office loves it, and you're going to love it, on and on and on and on and on.

they really don't know anything about the process of making minitures.

Which is why they had ND on hand, who supposedly DO have experience with miniatures.

So of course they will make a lot of promises they can't keep. They are just normal dudes like us who try to venture into a new project but don't understand what they are getting into.

No. Wrong. Bad. See me after class. Starting a new business venture is risky, but part of that venture is assessing those risks, researching potential pitfalls, and building in contingencies, in terms of both time and money. This is a reason to be understanding, but that does not absolve PB of their responsibilities.

Again, I really don't understand the logic of asking for a refund. PB has invested all the money into making the project already, if refunds are freely given back how could they possibily continue on with the project? its either the money has been spent towards the project or will halt the project due to lack of funds?

We have no idea how much this may or may not be the case. They have roughly 2 dozen more models to deliver on. If they blew through 1.4 million just designing and making the first dozen, they done feth'd up bad. As in, someone needs to take the reigns from them, because they can't be trusted with a butter knife, let alone the funding from 5.5k backers.

Just how 'invested' are the forum posters who wants a refund? Honestly I'm not in too deep becuase I know when backing, PB is not a miniture company so I never held high expections of their quality or realiability. I just got myself a Battlecry and a Battlefoam bag. I was thinking of the SDF1 resin but last minute I got cold feet and dropped that order. Perhaps that's why I'm not too concern of the delays?

Some of them are in for a couple hundred, at least one is in for $1,500. If they have the funds to spare, getting those backers off their case and repurposing those figures for retail, Gencon or other sales basically doubles their money. If they don't, then again, they've screwed up even more badly than most of us assume.

Personally, I'm in for about $700 out of the $1,500 me and my friends backed for. We've not given up, but they and I are tired of the lies, or the incompetence, or whatever combination of both it is that has caused them to get to this point.

If you're not bothered, that's great. But as I said before, if you really don't understand the frustration, start from Page 1 of this thread and read forward. See the backers who joined despite Palladium being involved. The reluctance that was overcome by Ninja Division's smooth campaign, and the concern that erupted after it became clear that it was the PB show. The weeks and months of waiting to even see a hint of progress, despite having been told that all was great and coming along and... oops, delivery date slid back another 2 months!

Seriously, you say you don't get it, but the answers are here, across 130 pages of fine reading material.

Very reasonable replies to wufai's statements.
It has been abundantly proven that "overly optimistic' or not, they really had lied to us on the progress which is the main reason for getting my nickers in a twist.

To demand a refund is not all that shocking: there was a breach of trust and no legitimate reason given for the delay(s).
I think it only reasonable to withhold money until there is product physically available and can be evaluated for it's quality prior to purchase to give incentive "to get it right" despite their claims.
As has been pointed out: there are varied opinions of parting lines, options, gaps and number of parts for the models which can cause people to opt-out.

Palladium Books was great to have for roleplaying games way back when and is welcome to see them FINALLY getting some Robotech IP out there but they almost missed the boat: the show started in 1985 = 29 years ago. So only late 30's or 40 something's would have any strong interest in this (or anime historians).

I really want this all to end so that I never have to deal with them again, they are too painful to deal with.

I slipped into a rant again didn't I?

P.S. Who has the "Battle of the Planets" ... er... "Science Ninja Team Gatchaman" IP (or are they separate??)?

 Talizvar wrote:

P.S. Who has the "Battle of the Planets" ... er... "Science Ninja Team Gatchaman" IP (or are they separate??)?

Sentai Filmworks currently holds domestic (USA) video rights to Gatchaman, Tatsunoko Productions is the Japanese company.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rules to use Veritechs in X-Wing? Those are rules we might actually use.

I made some rules to use Battletech LAMs in X-wing if you're interested. Not the same thing obviously as I wouldn't want to run afoul of Palladium's cease and desist machinations...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/572457.page

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rules to use Veritechs in X-Wing? Those are rules we might actually use.

Never played X-Wing and only glanced at a rulebook. Could be fun though. Trying to decide how Veritech's can fly in comparison to a Tie would be interesting when you do the conversions to X-Wing. If you do the conversions, post them here, I for one would be interested.

Mike1975 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rules to use Veritechs in X-Wing? Those are rules we might actually use.

Never played X-Wing and only glanced at a rulebook. Could be fun though. Trying to decide how Veritech's can fly in comparison to a Tie would be interesting when you do the conversions to X-Wing. If you do the conversions, post them here, I for one would be interested.

What game are these rules for then?

Mike1975 wrote:Some of the players realized that the Star Wars miniatures game and Tactics were the same scale. So they got to talking about conversions and playing both together and we looked at some quick conversions. Here are some stats for anyone interested. I think I will make up some stat cards for these this coming weekend if I have time so if you think they are off, feel free to give your 2 cents. Attached are some of the Tactics units for comparison.

Other then X-Wing, the only other Star Wars miniatures game was the old collectable one.. which was 28mm (Dudesmen) or 'LOL-Scale?!' (Ships)

Of course, your files say Star Trek.. which is either X-Attack Wing, or Star Fleet, or ACTA: Star Fleet... none of which are the same scale as these Robotech figs

Star Wars and Robotech already share some similarities in settings, with one force using fewer but more individually powerful fighters versus 'swarms' of canon fodder; VTs vs Battlepods, X-Wings vs TIEs.

Establishing the stats, dials and points values of the craft probably wouldn't be terribly difficult, and there's already significant pilots, upgrades and craft variety to compare them to. I think the biggest issue would be trying to adopt the VT's themselves. Nothing in X-Wing has such variability in how it maneuvers, how fast it can be, etc. A craft with 3 maneuver dials and that actually changed stats (new dials might have slower movement but be more agile, might get away with keeping similar stats), and that alone could be a bit of a nightmare to find a balance of points costs.

My friends are pretty invested in X-Wing though, so it's tempting to run a few spreadsheets and see where I'd end up.

 Manchu wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
That would hold up as contract in court.

And already has.

Latest update was very good, definitely in the right direction.

Out of curiosity, in which cases? The only one I'm aware of is the case where the creator foolishly commingled the KS funds with his personal accounts and then just gave up when he realized that he had grossly underestimated the costs of the project. And from memory it was the commingling, rather than the failure to deliver, that led to the successful (fraud) class action against him (although I'm more than happy to be corrected).

And while I'm sure you could pursue a breach of contract case they tend to be very expensive and in this case difficult to prove since everything is an 'estimate'. As I've observed before, KS is a bit of a Libertarian's paradise; if you read their TOS you'll note that a backer is clearly not an investor (so federally enforced securities laws don't apply) and nor is it a storefront so standard consumer protections (as enforced by your state AG in the US and similar elsewhere) also don't apply. Both of which provide a far simpler form of recourse than contract law (sometimes it's nice to have the government at your back).

Here is a blog post on the topic
https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter

Note that creator is the one upon who the responsibility falls. KS is not going to pursue your money for you, unlike say what happens with Amazon.

Please note that I am not suggesting we will need to following this path; I have full faith that wave 1 will show up in 2014. More just interested in whether there have been other successful cases against KS's that went 'dark' for interest's sake.

 Cyporiean wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rules to use Veritechs in X-Wing? Those are rules we might actually use.

Never played X-Wing and only glanced at a rulebook. Could be fun though. Trying to decide how Veritech's can fly in comparison to a Tie would be interesting when you do the conversions to X-Wing. If you do the conversions, post them here, I for one would be interested.

What game are these rules for then?

Mike1975 wrote:Some of the players realized that the Star Wars miniatures game and Tactics were the same scale. So they got to talking about conversions and playing both together and we looked at some quick conversions. Here are some stats for anyone interested. I think I will make up some stat cards for these this coming weekend if I have time so if you think they are off, feel free to give your 2 cents. Attached are some of the Tactics units for comparison.

Other then X-Wing, the only other Star Wars miniatures game was the old collectable one.. which was 28mm (Dudesmen) or 'LOL-Scale?!' (Ships)

Of course, your files say Star Trek.. which is either X-Attack Wing, or Star Fleet, or ACTA: Star Fleet... none of which are the same scale as these Robotech figs

Clarification, we have made conversions from X-Wing to Tactics, that is what I posted.

My answer was in response to BobtheInquisitor talking about going the other way and converting Robotech to X-Wing

Mike1975 wrote:


Clarification, we have made conversions from X-Wing to Tactics, that is what I posted.

Ah, I had just assumed you converted things to the system that is more popular/actually playable.

 Forar wrote:
Star Wars and Robotech already share some similarities in settings, with one force using fewer but more individually powerful fighters versus 'swarms' of canon fodder; VTs vs Battlepods, X-Wings vs TIEs.

Establishing the stats, dials and points values of the craft probably wouldn't be terribly difficult, and there's already significant pilots, upgrades and craft variety to compare them to. I think the biggest issue would be trying to adopt the VT's themselves. Nothing in X-Wing has such variability in how it maneuvers, how fast it can be, etc. A craft with 3 maneuver dials and that actually changed stats (new dials might have slower movement but be more agile, might get away with keeping similar stats), and that alone could be a bit of a nightmare to find a balance of points costs.

My friends are pretty invested in X-Wing though, so it's tempting to run a few spreadsheets and see where I'd end up.

X-Wing
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/103885/star-wars-x-wing-miniatures-game (This one

I've been told is the same scale or close to Robotech Tactics. I can see how the conversions could be problematical. You could turn to Battloid mode and let a Tie fly right on by and then zap him. Still, that is a crossover that could be interesting and fun, unlike Robotech and Voltron.


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Plus you could save some $ since you could use miniatures that you already have.

The link to the X-wing battletech conversions is a few posts up. Here is a (bad) pic of the battletech LAMs I plan to use.



I've got all three modes of the LAMs pictured above in the boxes posted there. Let me know what you guys think. Basically, the fighter version plays like a standard x-wing fighter where as the humanoid mode moves very slow but has almost a turret like arc of fire (everything but the back arc). The third in between mode is... well.. in between them!