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Eumerin wrote:
A Horizont is 198 feet long, which puts it at just over four times the length of a VF. That'd make a nice objective to fight over.

Not sure on the others.


And after looking over the size, I suspect that we won't be seeing the Quell-Quallie (i.e. Cyclops Recon Vehicle) anytime soon. It's apparently a little over 400 feet (roughly 125m) long, which would mean that it's over 9 VFs in length.

the Horizont would be about 8" long give or take few mm and the Cyclops would be about 16" long give or take a few mm.

 Albertorius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Forar wrote:
No no no, you don't understand. These are designs from the 80's that weren't created with making miniatures in mind.

For the RDF, this might as well be true.

Yeah, because japanese mecha series don't have attached toys and plamo deals since forever ^_^

I don't get what you mean by this. My criticism is that the RDF minis are designed with the same techniques and flaws you would find in an 80's kit, only shrunken down. Many parts are split for no reason, designed to attach with pins and holes, leaving the interior hollow. Wings could easily have been part of the top fuselage, for example. Everything about the RDF kits speaks to an unfamiliarity with wargaming miniatures and total cluelessness regarding how models in this scale are assembled. They might not have literally scaled-down an 80's kit, but they were clearly in an (larger scaled) 80's kit mindset when they designed the minis.


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Asterios wrote:

well my RRT stuff went in the closet since have much better gaming miniatures to deal with since got in a batch of 40K stuff to assemble which should keep me busy for a bit.

I suggest putting together some of the Zentraedi kits at least. They are fun and quick to assemble and they look good.


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 Alpharius wrote:
Is this game 1/144 scale?

Or...something else?

It's scaled like a serpent. A sinuous, treacherous serpent.

I honestly hope the scale stays the same for the other sagas (assuming they even get made).

It is totally going to blow it for me if I end up going head to head against a cyclone that is like half the size of my tomahawk in a tournament.

Well, if that happens, you can always proxy the cyclones with mummified ants.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do you propose they deal with the scale issue? Keep in mind that the VEritechs are probably already too small for most gamers.

 Swabby wrote:
I honestly hope the scale stays the same for the other sagas (assuming they even get made).

It is totally going to blow it for me if I end up going head to head against a cyclone that is like half the size of my tomahawk in a tournament.

Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons. That said, the cyclone doesn't have to be that big. I'd be fine with a 1/144 scale for the other two eras where the alphas are about 2/3 to 3/4 the size of a valkyrie. You still get the overall feeling that the macross mecha are bigger but you don't have the other two eras at crotch height for all the macross stuff.

I dunno man battletech has been doing fine with battle armor at 1/285th for a long time. I don't see how it is too small.

Is Battletech doing fine?

Maybe Robotech should aspire to be something more than second-rate Battletech.

You know what? No, I won't let this sit. Swabby, you really don't see the problem with minis so small no one can enjoy them as minis? Do you really find yourself overwhelmed by the sumptuous size and utility of the RTT Veritechs? You're talking about an army of units the size of a space marine's bolter or smaller. How is that fun?

Same way as Epic used to be fun?

I don't recall people moaning about how small the minis were for that, and they were also 6mm, weren't they?

OK, I didn't play the game, but I did collect some of the minis and paint them pretty well. Shame I've not got them any more as I did a painting demonstration at one point where I painted up a base of 5 in under half an hour with a good amount of detail.

 Conrad Turner wrote:
Same way as Epic used to be fun?

I don't recall people moaning about how small the minis were for that, and they were also 6mm, weren't they?

OK, I didn't play the game, but I did collect some of the minis and paint them pretty well. Shame I've not got them any more as I did a painting demonstration at one point where I painted up a base of 5 in under half an hour with a good amount of detail.

I'm pretty sure BobtheInquisitor mis-typed his complaint. It's not the size of the models, it's the size of the parts on those models.

I stopped for a second, got up, walked over the Epic models I have in my cabinet, and counted pieces. Most of the vehicles (the plastic land raiders, rhinos, etc) were one piece models. The individual infantry models were essentially single piece models as well. By the time I got into models requiring assembly, I was at the stuff like the titans, and those are still less than a dozen pieces (including the weapons).

In comparison, the Robotech models have parts numbers rivaling and surpassing Malifaux plastic.

I thought he was talking about how big things like the Cyclone and invid would be IF PB actually gets to do more generations of the game. I.E. how big will a bike be in the same scale as the VT's in Wave 1? Basically a person in a suit that transforms into a motorcycle, or a pilot model, would need to be a single part.

Personally, given the comments here, I doubt it'll make much difference as I don't see anything above the items within this KS being made before we are all too old and crotchetty - if they make them at all with the comments of people e-baying their stuff as soon as they get it and not wanting anything to do with PB again after this.

the only way this would work for other eras is if they do individual scales for all eras, cause lets face it, while 40K epic was awesome it wasn't that awesome, that's why GW gave up on it, and when you get into the invid you will have mecha and invid standing about under 1/2 an inch in height, seriously most of the mecha will be like that, so it would not be fun at that level, furthermore PB would complicate matters by making a 10mm item into 8-10 parts or more.

You guys have obviously not played enough 6mm games to appreciate the scale. 6mm is extremely enjoyable on the tabletop and it can be a joy to paint.

 Swabby wrote:
You guys have obviously not played enough 6mm games to appreciate the scale. 6mm is extremely enjoyable on the tabletop and it can be a joy to paint.

not saying it isn't, but as with any 6mm game you have other size options, unlike Robotech games that's it, also you miss the point, if PB can find a way to separate a 6mm figure into a dozen or so pieces for that awesome design quality, they will.

Battletech has other size options?

 Swabby wrote:
Battletech has other size options?

battletech does not make their mechs into dozens of pieces.

I'm a minis noob, but as I've said before, the idea of trying to put detail on something ~7mm tall is not one I relish.

Some of y'all might be able to get joints and plating highlighted.

I'm pretty sure I'd be happy if the faceplate on mine didn't cover the entire head. And half the torso.

And since Cyclones are among my favourite mechs in the series, I'm kind of hoping I can avoid that being an issue.

Asterios wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Battletech has other size options?

battletech does not make their mechs into dozens of pieces.

Not as many but many of the newer metal ones can have 12+ pieces. Especially the celestials.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated the files and added some more fan-made units just for fun.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Battletech has other size options?

battletech does not make their mechs into dozens of pieces.

Not as many but many of the newer metal ones can have 12+ pieces. Especially the celestials.

12 pieces? Pfft, that's nothing. The zentraedi recon pod has more than that parts count in just electronic and antenna bits and that doesn't even include the actual body and limbs!

 warboss wrote:
Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons.

Not entirely true. The Sentinels featured equipment from both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Only three episodes were created before it was cancelled... but those three episodes do exist with Bioroids fighting Invid, and Hovertanks shown alongside Legios fighters.

However, that's not particularly a big deal. The Southern Cross and Mospeada mecha are similar in size. It's only the Macross stuff that's significantly out of scale.

by the way for those of you thinking of just buying the rule book, don't, you need the boxed game in order to have the complete rules for the game, if you do not buy the box game you will not have the complete rules and it is the only way to get the complete rules for the game.

Eumerin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons.

Not entirely true. The Sentinels featured equipment from both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Only three episodes were created before it was cancelled... but those three episodes do exist with Bioroids fighting Invid, and Hovertanks shown alongside Legios fighters.

However, that's not particularly a big deal. The Southern Cross and Mospeada mecha are similar in size. It's only the Macross stuff that's significantly out of scale.

True... I forgot about the sentinels. Yeah, Macross is definitely the outlier but it is also by far the most popular era so it has an importance greater than it's 1/3 of the series would indicate. It is and likely will continue to be the money maker even if they eventually get around to doing the other series. Making it look visually out of place, even if it is canon, is probably not a good idea. TBH, I wouldn't be opposed to the southern cross and mospeada stuff being more of a skirmish scale game with larger minis to account for the smaller mechs. I know that won't jive with the size purists here but the cyclones really are an important part of mospeada and having them 3 to a base or somesuch at 6mm doesn't really do them justice. You'd have to have the entire mospeada cyclone using cast together as one single special character at 6mm.

 warboss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons.

Not entirely true. The Sentinels featured equipment from both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Only three episodes were created before it was cancelled... but those three episodes do exist with Bioroids fighting Invid, and Hovertanks shown alongside Legios fighters.

However, that's not particularly a big deal. The Southern Cross and Mospeada mecha are similar in size. It's only the Macross stuff that's significantly out of scale.

True... I forgot about the sentinels. Yeah, Macross is definitely the outlier but it is also by far the most popular era so it has an importance greater than it's 1/3 of the series would indicate. It is and likely will continue to be the money maker even if they eventually get around to doing the other series. Making it look visually out of place, even if it is canon, is probably not a good idea. TBH, I wouldn't be opposed to the southern cross and mospeada stuff being more of a skirmish scale game with larger minis to account for the smaller mechs. I know that won't jive with the size purists here but the cyclones really are an important part of mospeada and having them 3 to a base or somesuch at 6mm doesn't really do them justice. You'd have to have the entire mospeada cyclone using cast together as one single special character at 6mm.

I think Masters and Mospeada should be done in 1/100 scale to give us decent size minis to play with.

Asterios wrote:
by the way for those of you thinking of just buying the rule book, don't, you need the boxed game in order to have the complete rules for the game, if you do not buy the box game you will not have the complete rules and it is the only way to get the complete rules for the game.

If you have the rulebook you still won't have minis, squadron cards, or the faction cards to play. Minis gets you Squadron cards since they come in the box and they you only need the Faction card. You can play just fine without the Faction rules though. I've done it numerous times.

Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

Asterios wrote:
Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

And they are small. Cyclones are like half an inch tall.

There's two issues that I see with 6-8mm tall cyclones, fiddly parts you think the current stuff is difficult to work with? There's a reason that epic scale models and battletech does all their infantry in single piece metal. Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex. If they are made as one piece models they will be extremely limited in pose.

The second issue is that when you look at the rpg side of Robotech cyclones are almost as strong and durable as first generation veritechs but are human sized. Their MDC rating is through the roof which will be absolutely stupid when trying to game with them on the same table as first gen stuff. In most 6mm games infantry is placed on a single base and has a much limited limited role, so they will either need to be made to opperate in groups or they will function independently and then you have lots of microscopic units running around capable of going toe to toe with valkyries and zentraedi units which really skews things.

Alphas are much smaller then veritechs both in terms of damage they can withstand and the amount of missile firepower that they bring in staggering, all of which is packed into an even smaller model then the current the RRT minis. So you have a huge downwards swing in the model scales while upping the model's power. It'd be like playing 40k and for them to make strong units like a dreadnought or terminators sized to be less then half the height of a squat model, they'd simply get lost on the table among the larger models.

Invid are pretty tiny and those would also be a royal pain in the ass to build as multipart models at 6mm scale, plus like the Zent stuff you will needs tons of them as they are a swarm faction.

I don't think that keeping the rules and scale the same across generations does any favors to make game play better and it'll likely make things much more difficult as the models will get tiny and be less numerous on the table. I wouldn't particuarly want to keep track of just two tiny cyclones on the table when they equate a veritech in power.

I think they'd best be served by doing Mospeada as either 15mm (1/160-1/200) scale or even 1/72 scale. The 1/72 scale stuff they currently make Alpha fighter kits for which wouldn't be too big for the table provide they are used sparringly like what goes on in the series. The problem with that scenario is that the lisc likely doesn't allow for them to make the stuff in scales that are compatible with models kits or toys, hence the "gaming pieces" BS tag.

 paulson games wrote:
There's two issues that I see with 6-8mm tall cyclones, fiddly parts you think the current stuff is difficult to work with? There's a reason that epic scale models and battletech does all their infantry in single piece metal. Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex. If they are made as one piece models they will be extremely limited in pose.

The second issue is that when you look at the rpg side of Robotech cyclones are almost as strong and durable as first generation veritechs but are human sized. Their MDC rating is through the roof which will be absolutely stupid when trying to game with them on the same table as first gen stuff. In most 6mm games infantry is placed on a single base and has a much limited limited role, so they will either need to be made to opperate in groups or they will function independently and then you have lots of microscopic units running around capable of going toe to toe with valkyries and zentraedi units which really skews things.

Alphas are much smaller then veritechs both in terms of damage they can withstand and the amount of missile firepower that they bring in staggering, all of which is packed into an even smaller model then the current the RRT minis. So you have a huge downwards swing in the model scales while upping the model's power.

Invid are pretty tiny and those would also be a royal pain in the ass to build as multipart models at 6mm scale, plus like the Zent stuff you will needs tons of them as they are a swarm faction.

I don't think that keeping the rules and scale the same across generations does any favors to make game play better and it'll likely make things much more difficult as the models will get tiny and be less numerous on the table. I wouldn't particuarly want to keep track of just two tiny cyclones on the table when they equate a veritech in power.

I think they'd best be served by doing Mospeada as either 15mm (1/160-1/200) scale or even 1/72 scale. The 1/72 scale stuff they currently make Alpha fighter kits for which wouldn't be too big for the table provide they are used sparringly like what goes on in the series. The problem with that scenario is that the lisc likely doesn't allow for them to make the stuff in scales that are compatible with models kits or toys, hence the "gaming pieces" BS tag.

I went 1/100 scale since it would make the Cyclones about 1" in size

Asterios wrote:
Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

That's fine for him, but it doesn't help anyone else unless he sells them or distributes the files. And if he does either of those he's just offered his butt up for corn-holing by HG's lawyers.


I've got 3d models for 28mm cyclones models and Invid which are great for me but it doesn't help anyone as I can't sell them or give away the files. Shrug.

 paulson games wrote:

Asterios wrote:
Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

That's fine for him, but it doesn't help anyone else unless he sells them or distributes the files. And if he does either of those he's just offered his butt up for corn-holing by HG's lawyers.


I've got 3d models for 28mm cyclones models and Invid which are great for me but it doesn't help anyone as I can't sell them or give away the files. Shrug.

yeah that's the sad thing I thought about doing up my own models for the game, but then realized i'm the only one who could use them, I could not sell them or even give them away so it would only do me any good and no one else.

 paulson games wrote:
There's two issues that I see with 6-8mm tall cyclones, fiddly parts you think the current stuff is difficult to work with? There's a reason that epic scale models and battletech does all their infantry in single piece metal. Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex.

Seconded.

One of the 15mm infantry figures that Battlefront released for Flames of War comes with an arm that needs to be glued on. Why this was done is one of the great mysteries of the universe, as every other Battlefront infantry figure that I've seen is one solid piece. But this one infantryman comes with a detached arm that needs to be glued on. And it's provoked much ire on my part aimed at the idiot who designed it that way. The figure is just too small to have parts that need to be glued on.