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 Psienesis wrote:


The AdMech may hold the keys to the technology, but the Ecclesiarchy holds the hearts and souls of the people.

Yeah right. A few whispers here, a few whispers there, and the whole thing goes to hell.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
It's Valerian, he regards the Ecclecharchy as the KKK, just leave him be. He is like them a dogmatic fanatic.

I'm flattered.

I'm going to have to back up Kain here, Agri-Worlds are undoubtedly important in its distribution of bulk crops/food products but by and large I think it's more intended towards Hive Worlds and various military branches/crusades more than Forge Worlds.

Forge Worlds if anything would rely more on raw materials such as ore than foodstuffs simply because the vast majority of their occupants are techno-organic like servitors. This means that not only are they more efficient (which by extension more replaceable because they just need to grab various criminals to mindwipe/"servitorize") and require less nutrients in terms of food but the process by which they maintain said numbers is probably created by some form of technology provided by the technical capabilities of a Forge World.

And I think people are also missing out the key role the Mechanicus plays in maintaining the Imperium. Yes the Ecclesiarchy is critical in creating relative social and political unity in the vast territory of the Imperium but this is all for nought if the Imperium cannot enforce or expand this influence through manpower/military strength. Which of course is impossible to do in any meaningful form if the Mechanicus refused to help supply/maintain any the vast fleets that are required to do this as well as the many members of the Imperial Navy taught at least the basic understanding of how these ships work. The Mechanicus are an underlying part of the Imperium thanks to their monopoly on technology and without them by and large the Imperium are sitting ducks.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:


The AdMech may hold the keys to the technology, but the Ecclesiarchy holds the hearts and souls of the people.

Yeah right. A few whispers here, a few whispers there, and the whole thing goes to hell.

they have the Inquisition to stop that getting far and the Space Marines have been separated from Legions into Chapters so a repeat of the Horus Heresy won't happen again, at least not as dramatically fast anyway. besides, even if humanity went to hell, it wouldn't be the first time... how many times so far?

haven't the Ecclesiarchy held the top representative role the longest?

 Lotet wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:


The AdMech may hold the keys to the technology, but the Ecclesiarchy holds the hearts and souls of the people.

Yeah right. A few whispers here, a few whispers there, and the whole thing goes to hell.

they have the Inquisition to stop that getting far and the Space Marines have been separated from Legions into Chapters so a repeat of the Horus Heresy won't happen again, at least not as dramatically fast anyway. besides, even if humanity went to hell, it wouldn't be the first time... how many times so far?

haven't the Ecclesiarchy held the top representative role the longest?

The Ecclesiarchy only usurped the Administratum's position as most dominant seat holder in the council for a brief period of time, then Vandire buggered everything up and the Administratum responded by ripping out their balls.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Are they bumbling pawns in the game of the Ruinous powers? Or crafty men and occasionally women that can trick even Tzeentch when the situation demands? And how are them kept free from taint?

Also I wonder about their identities. Who can they be? There are no stupid suggestiongs (okay there are several like suggesting Sly Marbo or Ciaphas Cain just for fun).

Who/what they are: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra#.UYFCtLWyBxU

In the end, everyone is a bumbling pawn of chaos.

 Selym wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Are they bumbling pawns in the game of the Ruinous powers? Or crafty men and occasionally women that can trick even Tzeentch when the situation demands? And how are them kept free from taint?

Also I wonder about their identities. Who can they be? There are no stupid suggestiongs (okay there are several like suggesting Sly Marbo or Ciaphas Cain just for fun).

Who/what they are: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra#.UYFCtLWyBxU

In the end, everyone is a bumbling pawn of chaos.

Who in turn are bumbling pawns of Jervis Johnson.

Beyond issuing the occasional decree or creating a new Space Marine Chapter, the High Lords are mostly a ceremonial position; the size of the Imperium makes active governance an impossibility.

That's the grimdark fun of it all, it's not that there are "bad people" in charge, it's that there is no one steering the ship. The Imperium is a perpetual motion machine, grinding away with human life for fuel. Considering it has kept the species intact so far, it's not far from what the Emperor intended.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Are they bumbling pawns in the game of the Ruinous powers? Or crafty men and occasionally women that can trick even Tzeentch when the situation demands? And how are them kept free from taint?

Also I wonder about their identities. Who can they be? There are no stupid suggestiongs (okay there are several like suggesting Sly Marbo or Ciaphas Cain just for fun).

Who/what they are: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra#.UYFCtLWyBxU

In the end, everyone is a bumbling pawn of chaos.

Who in turn are bumbling pawns of Jervis Johnson.

Who, in turn, is a bumbling idiot. Yay!

KnowItAll wrote:
Beyond issuing the occasional decree or creating a new Space Marine Chapter, the High Lords are mostly a ceremonial position; the size of the Imperium makes active governance an impossibility.

That's the grimdark fun of it all, it's not that there are "bad people" in charge, it's that there is no one steering the ship. The Imperium is a perpetual motion machine, grinding away with human life for fuel. Considering it has kept the species intact so far, it's not far from what the Emperor intended.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Are they bumbling pawns in the game of the Ruinous powers? Or crafty men and occasionally women that can trick even Tzeentch when the situation demands? And how are them kept free from taint?

Also I wonder about their identities. Who can they be? There are no stupid suggestiongs (okay there are several like suggesting Sly Marbo or Ciaphas Cain just for fun).

Who/what they are: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra#.UYFCtLWyBxU

In the end, everyone is a bumbling pawn of chaos.

Who in turn are bumbling pawns of Jervis Johnson.

Who, in turn, is a bumbling idiot. Yay!

No, he's a bumbling pawn of the malevolent force known only as...the board of directors...

Who, in turn, are bumbling idiots?

KnowItAll wrote:
Who, in turn, are bumbling idiots?

Yes.

KnowItAll wrote:
Who, in turn, are bumbling idiots?

No, they are bumbling pawns of the even more nebulous force known as the shareholders, who are bumbling pawns of we the customers, who in turn are bumbling pawns of Cegorach in a bizarre fourth wall breaking turn of events.

No, they are bumbling pawns of the short-term dollar, with the shareholders being an ignorant third party, and the customers being the ones that get screwed.

So I guess, we the customer are the bumbling idiots.

Our answer lies in Goge Vandire, who replaced the High Lords with his own megalomania and for a time united the Imperium in an age of unrivaled madness. The High Lords survived after Goge and continued to rule the Imperium - meaning they really are instrumental to its survival even if they appear to not be.

I find it funny that if you really think about the Imperium, it's modeled after a dystopic American/Roman Republican system pitted with a strong arm church continuously propping it up, while simultaneously fighting for power. The High Lords being the sluggish Legislative/Judical/and executive branch all rolled into one, they are the federal government - an almost omnipotent vessel of power when concentrated on a single issue, but like the armies they deploy, it takes an enormous effort to get them to agree on anything. The majority of the daily decisions made by the Imperium are on a local level. Sectors, regions, planets, even lowly commanders are where the true power of the Imperium lies even if all owe their dues to Terra.

Games workshop has done a service to the community by allowing this because it means one thing:

The players have the power.