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Specialist games are gone, what will GW cut next?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Who's next?
Warhammer World
White Dwarf
Forge World
Black Library
LotR/Hobbit
40k army
WHFB army
Lawyers
Other
None of the above: WOTC buys them first.
None of the above: GW goes bankrupt first.

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Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

 Peregrine wrote:
WHFB army: sales aren't all that great, there's tons of competition for the fantasy market, and really how many armies do you need for one game? Get rid of one of the ones that doesn't have space marines and save some shelf space.


I laughed.

Some good points raised about the lack of support directly leading to the rise of competitors fulfilling those niches, I hadn't really considered that. And of course, once people had the notion that there were other companies making games, it allowed companies like Mantic to come in as competitors to the core systems, and people actually paid them some attention rather than dismissing them out of hand.. As said before, a huge strategic blunder.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some people have said it's the right decision, and I do agree (given than GW decided 10 years ago to not support them, it was inevitable), the main problem I have is with the lack of forewarning, announcement or anything. It's an ultimate display of contempt for some 'classic' and much-loved games to try and usher them out of the door whilst nobody notices.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 19:10:29


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I'm guessing Warhammer World, it's a remnant from a bygone age. And what's the point of having a bar there when the core audience for their games is practically prepubescent these days?


For the dads!

Won't someone think of the dads?


If Games Workshops started stocking 'something for the dads' I might start visiting them again...



 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

Suggest everyone downloads the rulebooks they want before they disappear.

On the plus side, Mordheim is very well catered for by Fantasy miniatures these days.

   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker



wales

The veteran players lol.

currently playing dropzone commander, battlegroup and gorkamorka  
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




 Peregrine wrote:
So, specialist games are now dead................


Opening thread removed from quote because it is fairly substantial.....

Do you have any figures or reliable quality sources to back up these thoughts. Obviously they are fairly broad and therefore I would like to see where you are getting your sources from.




   
Made in gb
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

What's the basis for people thinking WHW will go? My understanding both from my time there and had having a passing acquaintance with the manager is that it's one of their top performing stores. Besides which being located at HQ means that the majority of costs will be incurred anyway unless they can make significant (really significant given the disruption to the business) savings in a HQ move.

As for WHF being "at risk", they have called out that it's under-performing in their financial reports. I wouldn't classify it as about to go, but certainly they'll be looking at how they can get it's revenue up to justify the resource it gets.

Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!" 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




They probably own the entire site anyway......
   
Made in us
Wraith






I'd think they'd ditch The Hobbit/LotR next, though the conditions of holding the license might not make that an option. So really, I'm not sure what else they can cut. I really think they should abandon their retail outlets in at least the US, if not North America, but they may be loath to do that.

If the above are not options, then of the things on that list, I suppose either dropping a WHFB army, or shutting down Warhammer World, would be the most likely, but I think if that happens then it really will be the beginning of an irreversible death-spiral.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Who knows? Whatever is least profitable I guess, as that's the only thing that seems determine anything these days.

Interesting thought regarding Games Days, and something that could give credence to it being stopped - how are the big displays and games (that many thought used to be one of the highlights of the show) possible these days? Way back in the mists of time when I worked for GW, we had 3-4 staff in a store and all of us would be sat working late trying to get literally dozens of miniatures ready for some display or another at GD - it was manic and tiring, but a lot of fun. With the work force effective axed, and the fact that they often don't seem to be able to get new releases painted and on the shelf in the window much of the time these days, is that component now missing from GD? With no new releases shown, FW and BL doing its own thing, has the 'soul' of GD been lost in any case?

I voted 'White Dwarf' out of hope really - right now it's like one of your best mates that's come back with as a zombie with both legs and one arm missing, dragging itself towards you and gasping for your brains. It needs putting out of its misery..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 19:55:31


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in gb
Lurking Gaunt




Definitely the Hobbit. Seems like they only took the license to stop other companies (PP, Reaper, Mantic etc) from getting a decent foothold with it (also evident by their handling of it, releasing the absolute bare minimum). The LotR was a huge success for GW in the early years, they just thought it'd never stop giving. Imagine what a competent company could do with the Hobbit once the battle of five armies comes out.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






V1ND4LOO wrote:
Definitely the Hobbit. Seems like they only took the license to stop other companies (PP, Reaper, Mantic etc) from getting a decent foothold with it (also evident by their handling of it, releasing the absolute bare minimum). The LotR was a huge success for GW in the early years, they just thought it'd never stop giving. Imagine what a competent company could do with the Hobbit once the battle of five armies comes out.


TBH I think the failure of the Hobbit has more to do with the failure of the movie. I'm sure "keep this away from our competition" was a factor in the decision to renew the license, but they already had the established LOTR line and a reasonable expectation that it would be a success like the first movies. Once the disappointing movie numbers were in it was too late to back out, so I suspect all work on new releases stopped and they're just putting out the remaining stuff from the first wave that was already far enough along that they might as well put it up for sale.

A different company trying to make a Hobbit game would face the same problem of the license being a lot less valuable than everyone hoped, but without the existing product to re-brand they'd be starting from scratch and investing more money. I don't think the results would really be any different.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 cincydooley wrote:
We have two pretty healthly leagues in my area, one of which boasts about 25 players.

The LOTR/Hobbit Line isn't going anywhere for at least 3 years.

Black Library & Forge World aren't going anywhere.

Specialists Games SHOULD have been the first things to go, and it should have happened a while ago. Despite the clamoring on here, I can't imagine there's any "real" life in those games that's driving that many people to purchase more items. I just don't believe it. Couple that with the fact that GW has very successfully licensed the brands to Fantasy Flight, and there's no reason for them to maintain an in house "specialists games" department. Let FFG market them as board games, and, if anything, partner with them on any that may require plastic 28mm models.


GW isn't going to license out something which might become a competitor to themselves. Existing FFG licenses are a different matter because they're just board games with no 'miniatures' per se and don't compete against 40k/WHFB, rather than complement them. No, if GW doesn't do Specialist Games, then they're not going to let anyone else do them - not even FW.

Talking about popularity of the Specialist Games: nearly every wargamer I know owns those models and most of them regularly play them (mostly Blood Bowl). By contrast, I know zero people who play LOTR/Hobbit.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





College Park, MD

The Hobbit (depending on licensing) or one of the less popular armies seem like the most likely targets. They've finally started doing hard cover price gouging for Horus Heresy novels, so they've probably figured that market out enough to want to stay in it. White Dwarf, eh, they'll keep it. I can't imagine it costs them all that much to produce, and they seem to be limiting the non-subscription printings down to the point they're not dealing with too much waste; I could see them going subscription only though.

 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

I don't think any entire armies will get dropped but I reckon the more obscure metal models will get quietly dropped here and there. I essentially mean stuff that is less obviously useful as gaming pieces and is more quirky or characterful - stuff like the Inquisitive Grots, Guard Crew etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 00:59:42


Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

The Hobbit may pick up when they release the iconic characters from the film. I know Radagast on his sled is (finally) being released and I assume Azog is in the works (it's kind of difficult to play out the scenes from the film with those two missing). There's also two more films and possibly a collectable magazine/miniature series yet to be released.

Spain in Flames: Flames of War (Spanish Civil War 1936-39) Flames of War: Czechs and Slovaks (WWI & WWII) Sheffield & Rotherham Wargames Club

"I'm cancelling you, I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf." - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






I'd most likely expect store closures and maybe dropping The Hobbit/LotR. As many have said, the movie didn't spur on sales of the models, LotR itself has been coasting along for years now, and as a whole the range and game just don't seem to be going anywhere.

Stores, eh. I can't see them being the big community builders they think they are. 40k reached a self perpetuating population long ago. People get into 40k because they know people who play 40k.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 02:27:28


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine





 Kilkrazy wrote:
I don't believe GW would drop WHFB. That would leave them with only one game.....


Yes, but this would be great news for us, because then we could buy Space Marines instead.

Seriously though, I reckon what GW will be cutting next is their own throat.

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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I've figured it out. I know what they're cutting next:

Profits.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

The answer is the collectors range. It's started disappearing already.

Which is obviously great news! for anyone who needs obscure metal characters for their army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 10:06:56


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Herzlos wrote:
The answer is the collectors range. It's started disappearing already.


Well, that was already known and included in the specialist games ending, people just didn't pay much attention to the reports that the collectors stuff was gone too until it got its own thread.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord






Interesting story.

How does the "Sky is falling" rhetoric tally with the latest GW financial report, from early this year?

Revenues up from £62m to £67m year on year.
Operating profit up from £6.5 to £10.6m
Earnings per share up from 22p to 25p.

Many companies would be grateful for figures as disastrous as this in the present economic climate.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
How does the "Sky is falling" rhetoric tally with the latest GW financial report, from early this year?


Because those numbers are covering up the truth of GW's financial situation. Sales volume is stagnant or declining, they're only getting higher revenue out of it because the price increases have so far managed to compensate for the lost sales. But that's not a sustainable strategy, and once you reach the point where you can't raise prices any higher GW is stuck with a small customer base and no ability to expand it without lowering prices (since they refuse to accept that marketing exists). Meanwhile profits are inflated by one-time savings like closing stores or dropping the specialist games, and that's even less sustainable than the price increases.

In short: GW can make the numbers look good and keep the shareholders happy a bit longer, but only at the cost of sacrificing long-term growth for immediate profits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 10:56:32


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Ian Pickstock




Nottingham

Sales volume is stagnant or declining

got a source on this? And you might want to say "steady" rather than "stagnant", as that just makes it look like you're emotively bashing gw.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 11:05:44


Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.

Na-na-na-naaaaa.

Hey Jude. 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord






 Peregrine wrote:
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
How does the "Sky is falling" rhetoric tally with the latest GW financial report, from early this year?


Because those numbers are covering up the truth of GW's financial situation. Sales volume is stagnant or declining, they're only getting higher revenue out of it because the price increases have so far managed to compensate for the lost sales. But that's not a sustainable strategy...


How does a 10 per cent increase in revenue equate to a drop in volume? Revenue is revenue. If sales were flat but prices were up you'd see a proportionate increase in profit margin, but pretax profits are up by around 10 per cent too. If you have figures for volume, please share. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking... or, maybe, schadenfreudefull thinking.


   
Made in au
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine





Australia

 Peregrine wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Specialist Games are now gone?

And do we know that The Hobbit was a "disaster"?


Yep. GW's trend of coming up with the best possible plan and then doing the exact opposite continues: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/524134.page

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And do we know that The Hobbit was a "disaster"?


Not confirmed since GW doesn't release sales numbers for individual products, but the movie was a financial disappointment (especially in long-term attention) and people who go to GW stores say the stuff is just sitting on the shelf collecting dust. Not surprisingly given the fact that the models are mediocre and insanely expensive, and GW's marketing has gone from minimal to nonexistent. GW even has plenty of the "limited edition" starter sets in stock. Meanwhile the license fees can't be cheap, so their profit margins on what little they do manage to sell can't be very good.


The Hobbit made a BILLION DOLLARS. And i enjoyed it very much. It obviously didn't carry the same selling power of LotR. But saying the film was a financial disappointment is fething Ridiculous

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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Interesting story.

How does the "Sky is falling" rhetoric tally with the latest GW financial report, from early this year?

Revenues up from £62m to £67m year on year.
Operating profit up from £6.5 to £10.6m
Earnings per share up from 22p to 25p.

Many companies would be grateful for figures as disastrous as this in the present economic climate.


Yup, those number combined with the dwindling of the sales force and slimming of the portfolio makes me think that Kirby is feathering his nest to try and lure some one into a buy-out and big pay day for himself just before retiring.

Just modern business.


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Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ChocolateGork wrote:

The Hobbit made a BILLION DOLLARS. And i enjoyed it very much. It obviously didn't carry the same selling power of LotR. But saying the film was a financial disappointment is fething Ridiculous


Billion dollars isn't that special anymore, esp. for a movie with something like $300 million dollar budget. The Hobbit was just fourth highest grossing movie of the year. Sure, it made a tidy profit, but probably less what was expected, and public reaction to it was much subdued and critical compared to LotR.

Regarding the game, I think one problem was that the movie just didn't offer that many great characters to be transferred as miniatures. The Dwarves, sure - they were great, but most of the rest, meh. Gandalf, Elrond et al have like dozen models each made already. The trolls or Radagast hardly were very inspiring visually, and the goblins were downright terrible compared to LOTR Orcs.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




 BryllCream wrote:
Sales volume is stagnant or declining

got a source on this? And you might want to say "steady" rather than "stagnant", as that just makes it look like you're emotively bashing gw.


It's easy to figure, and other threads have analyzed this to death.

You start with comparing the sales figures from year to year and factor in the price increase from year to year. Don't just look at the gross revenue and/or net profit lines of the financials. Actually look at the sales data. When analyzed, at least for North America (the most accurate data is availabe for North America because GW had to release that information as part of discover for the GS v CHS lawsuit), it is shown that their unit sales have been dropping pretty consistently for the majority of a decade, at least since the LotR initial introduction died down.

To make it simple, if your sales dollar figures are relatively flat despite having introduced a price increase of approximately 8-12%, then it is easy to infer that sales volume is down.
   
Made in gb
Ian Pickstock




Nottingham

I wasn't aware that there was data available that weighted the price increases on what people actually buy. You have to assume that gw sell as many land raiders as tactical squads to get that ten percent figure. Which is why army by army comparisons are the most useful, but you get flamed to death for suggesting that price increases are around 2 to 7 percent, depending on army. Iirc anyway.

Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.

Na-na-na-naaaaa.

Hey Jude. 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord






So... price increase is approximately 8 to 12%. And revenues are up around 10 per cent. I'm convinced! THe sky is falling!

Personally, I agree that the price hikes are cynical and irritating. But there's no evidence their business is suffering. Independent traders like Dark Sphere, who make more profit from their other lines, reckon sales on recent released - Tyranids, Tau - have been great.

As for the city - they seem impressed. Terrific shares performance since 2008. They've outperformed Nasdaq; compare them to Hornby - who hiked profits by outsourcing to China - and they're doing much better.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GAW.L#symbol=gaw.l;range=5y;compare=aapl+hrn.l;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;




   
 
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