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 JohnnyHell wrote:
Someone should approach GeeDub and ask to buy the moulds and produce under license.

I'm sure they would rather chuck the molds then sell them to someone.

Well that's disappointing...
=/

Not really as disappointing as seeing the specialist games go, but almost.

nkelsch wrote:
If it is not profitable in-house... then license it and let someone else take on the 'risks'. If there is no market, then the license holder can fail and not you.
)

I doubt they'd license out actual miniatures wargames. It's different to give a license to make an RPG or boardgame.

 Lord Harrab wrote:
A shame, but hopefuly that means plastic steel legion kits

Don't say that! If they made a plastic Steel Legion kit, I'd be sucked into starting a IG army for sure...

-C6

PS-And GW could also make plastic DKK...

gossipmeng wrote:
Sounds like we have plenty of basement MBAs here doomcasting any move GW makes.

Can't GW cut a line of old poorly selling miniatures because they simply aren't that profitable? What many of you fail to understand is that just because something may technically make a "profit" it might not be worth the time or effort. Star product lines such as 40k can actually be hurt by attention being redirected away from them to keep a collectors range slowly grinding along.

Consider this scenario: Everyday there magically appears $10 in a box which is a 1 hour drive from your house. So you go and drive to the box and grab the $10, but it cost you $5 in gas. Congratulations you made a profit of $5..... but was it really worth an hour of your time and the potential wear and tear on your vehicle?

^^ The collectors line and specialist games follow the same principle, time and effort can be put to use developing and selling more profitable products. It is much easier to follow a simplified organizational strategy when you don't have all these random bits trailing off in all directions.

Thank you for understanding that time=money. Most of the people posting here don't factor that in. Like I said early making and accounting profit doesn't mean you're making an economic profit. They'd definitely be better of shifting their resources to other projects.

The funny thing is "the basement mba's" don't understand business. God forbid a company restructures and trims the fat to keep up with a changing market.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Seems like Games Workshop is preparing for the final countdown.

Thanks! Now I've got the song by Europe stuck in my head!!!

ianj253 wrote:
Thank you for understanding that time=money. Most of the people posting here don't factor that in. Like I said early making and accounting profit doesn't mean you're making an economic profit. They'd definitely be better of shifting their resources to other projects.

The funny thing is "the basement mba's" don't understand business. God forbid a company restructures and trims the fat to keep up with a changing market.

I understand that, I really do. It's possible that the whole operation is simple too "low cost/low gain" to be worth the hassle. That said, they're charging a premium retail price for old models. Spin casting isn't monkey work, but it's no more than semi-skilled. I simply think that it's a "very low cost/sort of low gain" thing.

Where things are different is if they are looking at a major capital expense to buy new casting equiptment, but even then...there's money to be had. I know this because I know what other companies make money at selling, at lower prices.

So while I would not be surprised that metal casting has the lowest profit margin and incidental revenues, I'm slightly surprised that they're turning their back on what revenues it is.

Hell, recreate Marauder miniatures (or, more likely, some clever name like "Longbeard's Forge") as a wholly owned subsidiary. give them some space, some equiptment, and the back catalog of master models. Let them run like FW does, and see how much cash they can bring in.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
God forbid a company no longer sell something which isnt profitable. This is like a VG company dropping making video games for ps1 and people getting upset.
This is just way to little of a thing to care about.
Also, Now they are really collectable.

That truly is a bad example. The last PS1 game was released in 2004. The last Sega Mega Drive game was released in 2010 FFS! Also ignoring the fact a good chunk of said games are also available to download onto your current PS3 to play at your leisure.

A better example would be a diner that serves breakfast 24/7 offering a breakfast burger: the kind with bacon and an egg on the burger.

Now, they've decided they won't make it any more. They still have all the fixins, they just don't want to.

Here is a list of the things I got back from GW that were obsolete or on back order. This is in response to an order I placed which means that I won't have the Epic Reaver I wanted:

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

Back Order:
99800101063 Chapter Master Pedro Kantor
99060113007 Aun Shi Tau Ethereal
99060113030 Tau Ethereal with Staff
99120202019 Empire Pistoliers / Outriders
99120207014 Vampire Counts Dire Wolves
99800101006 Space Marine Terminator Chaplain
99800101037 Space Wolves Rune Priest
99810113001 Tau Sniper Drone Team
99819915013 Keeper of Secrets
99120113017 Tau Gun Drone Squad
99800113016 Darkstrider
99800113017 Longstrike
99810113004 Commander Shadowsun
99810113013 Aun'Va, Master of the Undying Spirit
99060307006 Epic: Imperial Marauder Bombers
99800209002 Grimgor Ironhide
99060105142 Imperial Guard Catachan Snipers
99060801004 Battlefleet Gothic: Space Marine Hunter
99060807012 Battlefleet Gothic: Falchion Class Escor
99110807025 Battlefleet Gothic: Adeptus Mechanicus C
99221499007 The Lord of the Rings Terrain Pack
99800101012 Astorath the Grim
99819915015 Flesh Hounds of Khorne
99060105176 Imperial Guard Cadian Snipers
99080210003 High Elf Lothern Sea Guard
99110807008 Battlefleet Gothic: Imperial Vengeance C
99800101107 Belial
99060212071 Dark Rider Command 1
99060303019 Epic: Ork Flakwagons
99061203006 Warmaster: Bretonnian Peasants
99061203005 Warmaster: Bretonnian Characters
99061208005 Warmaster: Lizardmen Cold One Riders
99810212001 Dark Elf Reaper Bolt Thrower
99120202014 Empire Helblaster Volley Gun
99120202014 Empire Helblaster Volley Gun / Helstorm

Obsolete

99060214018 Marksmen Of Miragliano
99060214036 Volands Venators Blister
99060214054 Alcatani Pikemen
99060304026 Epic: Eldar Court Of The Young King
99060307003 Epic: Imperial Thunderbolt Fighters
99060804002 Battlefleet Gothic: Eldar Shadow Cruiser
99060813005 Battlefleet Gothic: Orca Class Escorts
99061208006 Warmaster: Lizardmen Kroxigor
99110307009 Epic: Imperial Reaver Titan
99229999073 Citadel Battlemat

So there might be some claim to retiring older molds as it appears that several items are still available, just back ordered and the stuff that's being dropped is older metals (i.e. well over 10 years old)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Admittedly I'm a little annoyed that the Reaver and Falcions were both orderable yesterday when I ordered but one is no longer made at all and the other is on back order....

I'm assuming that this is the list from the US, Hulk? I mean, the UK might have a slightly different list based on what is produced locally, etc.

A pity. Tallarn were the only faction interesting enough to me to get me to make an Imperial Guard army. I always thought it would be a great faction to practice weathering on. Not that I ever had any intention of buying an all metal IG force, so it makes sense for GW to drop them. But I have a sneaking feeling this is part of a transition to a blander future where all regiments of IG dress like the IG available in plastic.

Oh well. Guess I'll just have to dusty up a Haqqislam faction instead.

@anpu_adom

It shouldn't be different as the US doesn't do any manufacturing anymore and I'm sure the specialist stuff was all produced in the UK for ages. But yeah, I'm in the US.

Odd thing is no mention of the items they've fully removed from their site...

"This is great news."

Well GW is having a clear out then! Well time makes fools of us all I suppose.

May the miniatures rest peacefully in the great bits box in the sky. Also there are some surprising models going, Iron Warriors Lord I thought that was a popular model, I must have been wrong.

Also I knoticed the valhallan ice warriors are missing from the GW website. I'm guessing they have gone forever too????

 ph34r wrote:

 Lord Harrab wrote:
A shame, but hopefuly that means plastic steel legion kits

I fear for the worst. I've always wanted a Steel Legion force eventually, and now they might be gone completely?

Go to Forge World and buy Death Korps of Krieg figures. Those work quite well as Steel Legion. Generally better looking and lighter weight models, too, even if they are more expensive.

So what does this mean for the Vostroyans and other metal stuff that wasn't in the collectors range? What about the stuff in the collectors range that's already been Finecasted like the Empire bear man?

 Arclaw wrote:
I guess this was inevitable... I'm suprised they lasted this long to be honest. I really hope the old regiments don't fade into dust and do actually get an update- one day! Each plastic regiment would only actually be 3 boxes- infantry, command, and heavy weapons- and if they played the cards right they might be able to double up (Mordian/Praetorian just a head swap, Valhallan/Steel Legion could be pulled off too without compromising too much. Tallarn are more unique, but they could always do something new...)

I'll be snatching up a few of those last Tallarns, I think- just to round things off in my army. Ebay prices are bound to go up.

Incidently I've been noticing the steady decay of the Forge world Tallarn range as well. The Tallarn Sentinel is no longer for sale, as is the heavy bolter team and weapons pack. Must be While Stocks Last, like a lot of their stuff...

I think I read somewhere here on dakka that a lot of the guard stuff they did at FW was being discontinued to focus on the horus heresy stuff. Get em while you can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 Lord Harrab wrote:
A shame, but hopefuly that means plastic steel legion kits

I fear for the worst. I've always wanted a Steel Legion force eventually, and now they might be gone completely?

Go to Forge World and buy Death Korps of Krieg figures. Those work quite well as Steel Legion. Generally better looking and lighter weight models, too, even if they are more expensive.

They may end up cheaper than ebay prices.

 ceorron wrote:
Well GW is having a clear out then! Well time makes fools of us all I suppose.

May the miniatures rest peacefully in the great bits box in the sky.

Amen !

Also there are some surprising models going, Iron Warriors Lord I thought that was a popular model, I must have been wrong.

Also I noticed the valhallan ice warriors are missing from the GW website. I'm guessing they have gone forever too????

Vahallan, like other guardsmen from second edition (and Steel Legion) were moved to the collectors section of GW's website years ago. They are still there (well for now). However Valhallan grenade launcher is noted as definitively unavailable in my country annd UK, while OK in USA. Stock status appears to be quite different depending on which country you select, this is confusing.

So what's the timing on this? Is it just until they run out, or at a certain point in time it will just no longer be available?

I am really curious as I already have a rather large collection of Steel Legion models, but would really, really hate to miss out on getting some more of the HWT models I still may need.

Well, a lot of Specialist Games products became unavailable today, so hurry.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Nah, I think Kingsley's got it about right. Another round of cost cutting, this time putting paid to all metal production - selling off of machines, ending of supply contracts, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if some metal casting staff aren't being let go as part of this...

GW sold off their metal casting equipment a few months after Finecrap launched BTW.

That would have been a strange move considering they use the metal casting machines for Finecast.

I'm actually really tempted to get the Iron Warrior Warpsmith now....

NO! I won't do it! I can't support them directly anymore....

but he's so cool!

I bought that Iron Warrior guy the moment that FineCost was rumoured (along with a bunch of other metal things, including the Sword Brethren - dodged a real bullet there as they were one of the first things to get ruined by resin). I don't regret it.

A note on the metal casting subject.

A spincaster and smelt pot setup takes up about 6 sq ft.
Add in an air compressor for the caster, and you are up to 10. Both the Caster and compressor run off US standard 110v AC. And the setups I've seen need a gas setup for the flame on the melt pot, and a hood/vent to remove vapors.

GW already has these setups, or something similar in place.
There needs to be no "warehouse" space for cast metal anymore, because they should be able to cast them "on Demand".
And since direct only items come in blank white boxes, with a printed sticker/label, there is minimal packaging needed on hand.

A single person casting at a leisurely pace for 8 hours could get at least 1000 man-sized models cast in a workday.

The only place storage is used up is for the bulk metal ingots, and mold storage.

Simple math. Assume you are casting a unit of Guardsmen.
Assume also 16 figures in a mold (usually between 10-20).
Ingots for casting are around $16/lb right now. You need about an ounce for a man sized figure (sometimes less).
So that is about $1/figure.
Assume $1 for packaging of each 10-man unit.
Assume labor cost of $20/hr. This number includes benefits/ins/etc.
You need a second employee to spell the first, help empty the molds, and sort and package the minis. $20/hr again.
I assume utilities costs are absorbed by the 24-7 plastics facilities if they share locations.

So looking at a slow pace day, you use 48lbs (1lb/spin x 6 spins/hr x 8hrs), and 76 packages to create 768 minis, losing say 1% miscast rate.
(48*$16)+$76+($20*8*2)= $1156 cost to produce 76 unit boxes of IG.

Retail is $35/box so total if all sell is $2660. Less the $1156 above and you net $1504. Since it is direct, no middleman or retail store takes a cut, so it all goes to GW.

Per hour that is about $315(9 boxes)-$145=$170 profit.

Drop in the bucket for GW, but you only have to run casting as needed, and the pace probably isn't too far off, since they will be casting all sorts of randoms, not just one unit over and over.

tl;dr GW makes more than 50% profit on metals, even at a "garage setup" pace.

Edit to add metals source url http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/alloy_ac_pewter.htm

Despite the fact that there is a real demand and interest in many older Citadel models, GW apparently has not deemed it a worthwhile business opportunity since they cancelled the bit service. The collectors range was a very half hearted endeavor with the same models available for years and quite a few armies with zero or only a few models. When the switch to finecast was made it was obvious that the collectors range was not going to last.

I dont find it surprising at all that they are pulling the plug on metal miniatures or the specialist range, it seems inevitable that they would discontinue those products. Every product has a life cycle and GW gave up on the specialist games years ago.

I find it rather amusing that some people find portents of impending doom for GW because they discontinued a few products that were probably very poor sellers.

JWhex wrote:
I find it rather amusing that some people find portents of impending doom for GW because they discontinued a few products that were probably very poor sellers.

It's not hard to believe people would come to that conclusion when you see all the other stuff going on with GW recently and over the past few years.

@ Hulksmash

You got actual year to year store closures and openings?
I'm curious if GW's store foot print has increased/decreased in the US as well as globally.

JWhex wrote:
I find it rather amusing that some people find portents of impending doom for GW because they discontinued a few products that were probably very poor sellers.

It's part of the whole picture. In isolation cutting poor-selling products wouldn't be a sign of impending doom, but in the context of stagnant sales/the Hobbit disaster/etc it looks like a case of throwing away long-term potential to claim immediate cost savings and put better numbers in the next financial report. A healthier company might have re-launched the specialist games (complete with proper marketing and support), but you have to wonder if GW is even capable of taking a risk like that, or if they had to drop them simply because they couldn't afford to do anything else.

It's far larger than in 2003-2004. Can't speak on year to year but I want to say they have doubled their store foot print (and in more metros) in the last decade. Could be slightly off but I know there are more than before. In 2003 I wanna say there were maybe 20 stores in the US (Seattle, LA, Dallas, Chicago, and Baltimore). They have almost that many in California now.

You'd have to look in the back of a magazine no one reads anymore to know how many they are up to now