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Reading through the Necron's back story again has made me think that the Necrons are actually largely faultless because from what we've seen of them, the Old Ones are tremendous douchebags who could have avoided the entire mess had they decided to not snub the Necrontyr when they begged for the Old One's medical technology and secrets to immortality. It's like how the writers of the treaty of Versailles are the ones who are most at fault for the second world war. Had they not been jerks they could have avoided creating a mess for everyone involved.

And in their attempt to cover their arses they cranked out warrior races with no regard for what it was doing to the warp to do the dying for them. They seemed to consider the galaxy a petri dish and the Necrontyr a bunch of uppity peasants with the audacity to ask favors of their betters. And as a result of their hubris, the warp is a terrible place, the galaxy is choking with dangerous races, the Necrontyr became the unliving menace we know them today, and heck I think you can actually definitively pin the blame for everything on them save for the Tyranids.

I actually feel sorry for the Necrons, getting screwed over by not one, but two elder races, and I feel that the Old Ones most certainly deserved their genocide, the Galaxy is much better off without the fascist jackoffs. And depending on what you believe about the origin of the Tyranids, even the bugs might be their fault too.

Chaos? They screwed up the warp enough to let Chaos exist. The Eldar? Cannon fodder race made because they were too chicken to do the dying. Orks? More cannon fodder. Hrud? Ditto. Necrons? Wouldn't exist if they had enough decency to just give their medical technology over to a cancer stricken race. C'tan? Would still only be focused on Stars if the Necrontyr never turned to them to fight the old ones.

Now obviously I'm rather biased against the Fascist Ones but I'm willing to hear arguments in favor of their actions.

So what's your opinion? Were they really the benevolent precursors their creations painted them as? Or were they cruel overlords who got their deserved comeuppance?

So the Necrons went to war with the Old Ones because they wouldn't share the key to immortality.

Who's to say that once the Old Ones had shared that knowledge the Necrons wouldn't have gone to war with them anyway.

The Necrons were warring amongst themselves before the war in heaven, and it was the war in heaven that united them, maybe the Old Ones saw their true nature and decided it would be a bad thing for all if they did.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So the Necrons went to war with the Old Ones because they wouldn't share the key to immortality.

Who's to say that once the Old Ones had shared that knowledge the Necrons wouldn't have gone to war with them anyway.

The Necrons were warring amongst themselves before the war in heaven, and it was the war in heaven that united them, maybe the Old Ones saw their true nature and decided it would be a bad thing for all if they did.

Their attempts at defending their goose stepping state of elitists only FUBAR'd up the entire galaxy. Keep in mind that all positive accounts about them came from the Eldar, whom they created. And them actually being jerks who wholly deserved extinction is much more in line with general 40k canon, which makes me very suspicious of any pretensions to benevolence from the Fascist Ones.

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So the Necrons went to war with the Old Ones because they wouldn't share the key to immortality.

Who's to say that once the Old Ones had shared that knowledge the Necrons wouldn't have gone to war with them anyway.

The Necrons were warring amongst themselves before the war in heaven, and it was the war in heaven that united them, maybe the Old Ones saw their true nature and decided it would be a bad thing for all if they did.

Their attempts at defending their goose stepping state of elitists only FUBAR'd up the entire galaxy. Keep in mind that all positive accounts about them came from the Eldar, whom they created. And them actually being jerks who wholly deserved extinction is much more in line with general 40k canon, which makes me very suspicious of any pretensions to benevolence from the Fascist Ones.

Except for the fact that at the time, the Necrotyr was a highly warlike race that was hellbent on not only conquering others, but each other. Even now they can't get along!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So the Necrons went to war with the Old Ones because they wouldn't share the key to immortality.

Who's to say that once the Old Ones had shared that knowledge the Necrons wouldn't have gone to war with them anyway.

The Necrons were warring amongst themselves before the war in heaven, and it was the war in heaven that united them, maybe the Old Ones saw their true nature and decided it would be a bad thing for all if they did.

Their attempts at defending their goose stepping state of elitists only FUBAR'd up the entire galaxy. Keep in mind that all positive accounts about them came from the Eldar, whom they created. And them actually being jerks who wholly deserved extinction is much more in line with general 40k canon, which makes me very suspicious of any pretensions to benevolence from the Fascist Ones.

Except for the fact that at the time, the Necrotyr was a highly warlike race that was hellbent on not only conquering others, but each other. Even now they can't get along!

So at the very best, they're as bad as the Necrons.

So they should have given away the key to immortality only to get destroyed in turn and perhaps setting up the Necrons for dominating Space for ever more.

The Immortal things seems to be a load of rubbish as well seeing as how the Old Ones are all dead.

 Kain wrote:

So at the very best, they're as bad as the Necrons.

Did the Old Ones start needing to wage wars until the Necrons started picking fights?

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So they should have given away the key to immortality only to get destroyed in turn and perhaps setting up the Necrons for dominating Space for ever more.

The Immortal things seems to be a load of rubbish as well seeing as how the Old Ones are all dead.

Perhaps instead of creating countless cannon fodder races they could have just made emotionless robots or one effective cannon fodder race that wouldn't have messed up the warp.

 Kain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So the Necrons went to war with the Old Ones because they wouldn't share the key to immortality.

Who's to say that once the Old Ones had shared that knowledge the Necrons wouldn't have gone to war with them anyway.

The Necrons were warring amongst themselves before the war in heaven, and it was the war in heaven that united them, maybe the Old Ones saw their true nature and decided it would be a bad thing for all if they did.

Their attempts at defending their goose stepping state of elitists only FUBAR'd up the entire galaxy. Keep in mind that all positive accounts about them came from the Eldar, whom they created. And them actually being jerks who wholly deserved extinction is much more in line with general 40k canon, which makes me very suspicious of any pretensions to benevolence from the Fascist Ones.

Except for the fact that at the time, the Necrotyr was a highly warlike race that was hellbent on not only conquering others, but each other. Even now they can't get along!

So at the very best, they're as bad as the Necrons.

Oh no, they are not.

Lets see your issues:

Warrior races mucking up the Warp: Wouldn't have come about if the Necrotyr had fought them. See WW1, where even the British used Mustard Gas on the enemy to fight Germany, same as in WW2. In actuality the reason the warp became this was because they used it for War, rather then their peaceful methods before with it.

The Necrotyr becoming Unliving menace: Because they did so to themselves, and were pretty much horrible things to begin with. See Warrior Race

They didn't need to share ANYTHING with a race that looked like it would likely try and conquer them as soon as they gave them the technology, I mean the Necrotyr called out the C'tan, went for a deal that turned their entire race to metal JUST TO FIGHT THE OLD ONES. Without regard for anything else, it shows that the Old Ones were right to avoid giving them immortality because they certainly would've just used it for endless conquest.

Perhaps instead of creating countless cannon fodder races they could have just made emotionless robots or one effective cannon fodder race that wouldn't have messed up the warp.

They were an organic race, not a metalized one.

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So they should have given away the key to immortality only to get destroyed in turn and perhaps setting up the Necrons for dominating Space for ever more.

The Immortal things seems to be a load of rubbish as well seeing as how the Old Ones are all dead.

Perhaps instead of creating countless cannon fodder races they could have just made emotionless robots or one effective cannon fodder race that wouldn't have messed up the warp.

If the Necrons hadn't started punching about their weight it would never had have to get that way.

If the Necrons would have maybe put their talents together and created interstellar capable craft rather than blasting the poop out of each other, they might have left their planet and angry star and could still have their organic bodies today.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So the Necrons went to war with the Old Ones because they wouldn't share the key to immortality.

Who's to say that once the Old Ones had shared that knowledge the Necrons wouldn't have gone to war with them anyway.

The Necrons were warring amongst themselves before the war in heaven, and it was the war in heaven that united them, maybe the Old Ones saw their true nature and decided it would be a bad thing for all if they did.

Their attempts at defending their goose stepping state of elitists only FUBAR'd up the entire galaxy. Keep in mind that all positive accounts about them came from the Eldar, whom they created. And them actually being jerks who wholly deserved extinction is much more in line with general 40k canon, which makes me very suspicious of any pretensions to benevolence from the Fascist Ones.

Except for the fact that at the time, the Necrotyr was a highly warlike race that was hellbent on not only conquering others, but each other. Even now they can't get along!

So at the very best, they're as bad as the Necrons.

Oh no, they are not.

Lets see your issues:

Warrior races mucking up the Warp: Wouldn't have come about if the Necrotyr had fought them. See WW1, where even the British used Mustard Gas on the enemy to fight Germany, same as in WW2. In actuality the reason the warp became this was because they used it for War, rather then their peaceful methods before with it.

The Necrotyr becoming Unliving menace: Because they did so to themselves, and were pretty much horrible things to begin with. See Warrior Race

They didn't need to share ANYTHING with a race that looked like it would likely try and conquer them as soon as they gave them the technology, I mean the Necrotyr called out the C'tan, went for a deal that turned their entire race to metal JUST TO FIGHT THE OLD ONES. Without regard for anything else, it shows that the Old Ones were right to avoid giving them immortality because they certainly would've just used it for endless conquest.

The Necrons were dying of cancer from the moment they were born due to radiation and no trick of science they invented worked. At the very least they could have helped the Necrontyr cure their cancer rather than live miserable pain filled lives wracked by constant horrendous agony that made them disregard the value of life so much given that death was always so near. And it seemed that the Old Ones mocked the Necrontyr for so much as asking and generally acted like arrogant elitists who enjoyed playing as gods of the galaxy rather than anyone who deserves continued life.

The best possible outcome would have been both the Old Ones and the necrontyr going extinct. The Old Ones because they would have oppressed any future races to rise up in order to continue their galactic hegemony, the Necrontyr because they would have done the exact same. It's a Nazi Germany vs Stalin's Soviet Union thing, the only good option is for both to lose. Perhaps if they both died humanity would have been able to make for a relatively peaceful dominion without the Fascist Ones or Nazicrons.

Perhaps instead of creating countless cannon fodder races they could have just made emotionless robots or one effective cannon fodder race that wouldn't have messed up the warp.

They were an organic race, not a metalized one.

Humans are organics and create robots. Emotionless robots or a single working cannon fodder race would be preferable to dozens of races that demonstrably did not work.

Seeing as most of the races they created was just to plant seeds in a lifeless galaxy, they were going to watch over them and help them out, but of course a war stops that pretty much, not to mention the Orks and Eldar were the cannon fodder races

Also humans created robots, and then the Robots turned on them, destroying countless worlds, and so it seems that even that has issues.

Regardless, from what we know they were Holly organic, they didn't use metals, they used things more like Eldar in that they literally grew things.

The Old Ones because they would have oppressed any future races to rise up in order to continue their galactic hegemony

Seeing as they helped Create those races by planting the seeds of life on worlds..

Perhaps if they both died humanity would have been able to make for a relatively peaceful dominion without the Fascist Ones or Nazicrons.

Perhaps if the old ones were around and the Necrotyr had chosen to die. There wouldn't be Orks plaguing half the galaxy, old ones could've helped Humanity do better in joining with the other Xenos races rather then be united under the Emporer. Conjecture in thought doesn't work if there's not enough evidence for it.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Humans are organics and create robots. Emotionless robots or a single working cannon fodder race would be preferable to dozens of races that demonstrably did not work.

Seeing as most of the races they created was just to plant seeds in a lifeless galaxy, they were going to watch over them and help them out, but of course a war stops that pretty much, not to mention the Orks and Eldar were the cannon fodder races

Also humans created robots, and then the Robots turned on them, destroying countless worlds, and so it seems that even that has issues.

Regardless, from what we know they were Holly organic, they didn't use metals, they used things more like Eldar in that they literally grew things.

The Old Ones because they would have oppressed any future races to rise up in order to continue their galactic hegemony

Seeing as they helped Create those races by planting the seeds of life on worlds..

Perhaps if they both died humanity would have been able to make for a relatively peaceful dominion without the Fascist Ones or Nazicrons.

Perhaps if the old ones were around and the Necrotyr had chosen to die. There wouldn't be Orks plaguing half the galaxy, old ones could've helped Humanity do better in joining with the other Xenos races rather then be united under the Emporer. Conjecture in thought doesn't work if there's not enough evidence for it.

Given that this is warhammer 40000 it is much more reasonable to assume that the Old Ones are malevolent as it'd be more fitting with the tone of the setting. Assuming benevolent precursors just doesn't match up to the fact that there has not been one truly good faction, with even the Tau being People's Republic of China level evil at best and everyone being indescribably worse.

Given that this is warhammer 40000 it is much more reasonable to assume that the Old Ones are malevolent as it'd be more fitting with the tone of the setting. Assuming benevolent precursors just doesn't match up to the fact that there has not been one truly good faction, with even the Tau being People's Republic of China level evil at best and everyone being indescribably worse.

Except for the fact that most of the info on the tau's "Republic of China evil" is from IMPERIAL SCHOLARS. Which I need to remind are very biased, when they were created there was an outcry, and then afterwords 4th edition filled in with stuff given by Imperial scholars to make them darker.

Of course the Tone of the Setting changes every single edition. Originally space marines were violent, psychopathic, sociopathic law enforcers and went up to Warrior Monk Knights..

It's gotten toned down from the grimdark of grimdark 3rd, but 6th's darker setting is because everything is doomed.

Isn't it hinted that the Old Ones helped create humans too?

As for them being bad guys, I disagree. The Necrontyr were all trying to kill eachother, they were jealous of the Old Ones and bitter towards them. When they asked for help, it's not a huge step of imagination to say they didn't ask nicely.
And the Old Ones creating races being bad? There's an old passage somewhere that mentions them creating these races as akin to a person having a child. These races were the Old Ones' children, that's how they were originally designed, especially the Eldar, not as bodyguards, but as inheritors of the galaxy. The Old Ones didn't want an empty galaxy.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
Isn't it hinted that the Old Ones helped create humans too?

As for them being bad guys, I disagree. The Necrontyr were all trying to kill eachother, they were jealous of the Old Ones and bitter towards them. When they asked for help, it's not a huge step of imagination to say they didn't ask nicely.
And the Old Ones creating races being bad? There's an old passage somewhere that mentions them creating these races as akin to a person having a child. These races were the Old Ones' children, that's how they were originally designed, especially the Eldar, not as bodyguards, but as inheritors of the galaxy. The Old Ones didn't want an empty galaxy.

Any species that wants to make Orks as the inheritors of the Galaxy is an evil bastard, their existence alone would condemn every other species to eternal suffering and strife.

I think of the Old Ones as being like Halo's precursors, arseholes who are only concerned with their scientific experiments and threw a hissy fit when one experiment bit back and decided that to ensure no one else ever rises against them, all life shall be made to suffer and toil in agony and misery.

It'd fit 40k more than happy go lucky benevolent forefathers.

Maybe you should read some more about the old ones, it seems that you took the side of the necrons because it fit a need to not see the whole picture.

The united states does not give every country nuclear information because they need better sources of energy.

With great power comes great responsibility... I would really consider immortality more a responsibility. As proven, if the Necrontyr did not have to fight each other and lived forever... their track record so far as a species showed they would just try to take over the universe. Then in response they pick the C'Tan for allies.... again proving they just don't make good decesions.

As for the pietre dish of the universe... their were many other species around that the old ones did not invent. Nature seems to find a way to make its own life, so the old ones may have started the ball rolling but each species still gets to pick how they evolved.. as proven by orks, Eldar and Humans....

 Kain wrote:

Any species that wants to make Orks as the inheritors of the Galaxy is an evil bastard, their existence alone would condemn every other species to eternal suffering and strife.

Orks got broke along the way, they weren't created to be the way they are in modern day 40k.

You have to understand that they created the biological weapons like the Orks out of desperation and that ultimately it was without their guidance or presence that they went out of control and became an intergalactic menace. A lot of things that the Old Ones did that made or brought damage both to the physical and warp plane was due to the relentless hateful advance of the Necrons in their blind attempts to wipe out life and the Old Ones.

Now as to the issue of immortality, again I think it's relatively likely as others have said that diplomacy didn't exactly go well between the two factions and that by and large I don't think you just go willy nilly giving other people the secrets of biological immortality. That would just be irresponsible especially given the context of the Necrontyr's own internal conflicts and having to need a common foe to simply unite most of them. Do you realize how much more potential damage they could have wrought if they brought in the problem of immortality? It would have just added to their aggressive tendencies and potentially made it as bad as being transferred to metal husks of their former selves.

Frankly I see the Necrontyr as sore losers who, unlike the Tau who also have short life-spans and are largely able to move past it, unable to accept their low lifespan and progress in a more meaningful way. Of course this is 40K we're talking about so again this is just my viewpoint on their conflict.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Any species that wants to make Orks as the inheritors of the Galaxy is an evil bastard, their existence alone would condemn every other species to eternal suffering and strife.

Orks got broke along the way, they weren't created to be the way they are in modern day 40k.

They were created to do the dying in place of their malevolent overlords and defend their empire devoted to messing with lesser races. Of course they'd be made to be ultraviolent, they'd need to be good shock troopers for their masters after all.

I was referring to them being brainier.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I was referring to them being brainier.

Genius ultraviolent brutes who live only for war are still ultraviolent brutes who live only for war.

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I was referring to them being brainier.

Genius ultraviolent brutes who live only for war are still ultraviolent brutes who live only for war.

Or is their nature now a byproduct of losing that intellect? Sure they were created for war, but were they created to be brutish and uncontrollable, I don't believe so.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I was referring to them being brainier.

Genius ultraviolent brutes who live only for war are still ultraviolent brutes who live only for war.

Or is their nature now a byproduct of losing that intellect? Sure they were created for war, but were they created to be brutish and uncontrollable, I don't believe so.

You'd want them to love war because if they didn't you'd have an arse of a time convincing them to fight against a foe as lethal as the necrons and the C'tan. Although notably they ultimately failed given that the Old Ones are severely living impaired at the moment.

Wrong again... the orks had no set course of development like the Eldar, once they had developed enough the Old ones were gone. There is a lot more back story here that you have not read. Most intelligent species will fight if they are threatened to slavery.. which is what the necrons wanted initially then when they got tricked that were going for genocide... so again.. why do you think the necrons were so helpless and sad... all they did was try to start a intergalactic war.. then killed off the entire Old Ones species.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Wrong again... the orks had no set course of development like the Eldar, once they had developed enough the Old ones were gone. There is a lot more back story here that you have not read. Most intelligent species will fight if they are threatened to slavery.. which is what the necrons wanted initially then when they got tricked that were going for genocide... so again.. why do you think the necrons were so helpless and sad... all they did was try to start a intergalactic war.. then killed off the entire Old Ones species.

I'm dubious that the Old Ones were benevolent. Them being fascist douches would be more in line with 40k which to date, has never had a genuinely good and kind hearted faction as a whole. Them being benevolent would make them out of place. Rather given the setting it'd be more reasonable to assume that they were monsters and terrible, terrible people just like the Necrons, just of a different sort.

Why were they fascist douches? Because they were imortal, extremely intelligent... showed no signs of trying to conquer anything... then when asked to give away what they created or earned.. said no... then were attacked.. then using their advanced tech.. created armies to fight thier enemies.... then were killed off because their enemies found an ally that tricked them, enslaved them and tried to eat the rest of galaxy... yet you defend them??????

OP, you have stumbled onto on of the greatest questions.of human history. Is X god responsible for all the troubles? Its right up there with "How do vegetarians and vegans get by without bacon," "What was the best thing before sliced bread?" and "What happened to bacon in 40K?"


It is the same as sying "Christian God is all-knowing, exists throughout all time simultaneously and is Omnipotent. Threfore he knew Adam and Eve would disobey him and bring evil and suffering into the world so he is thereore responsible."

I am personally inclined to agree in both cases due to personal reasons.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Why were they fascist douches? Because they were imortal, extremely intelligent... showed no signs of trying to conquer anything... then when asked to give away what they created or earned.. said no... then were attacked.. then using their advanced tech.. created armies to fight thier enemies.... then were killed off because their enemies found an ally that tricked them, enslaved them and tried to eat the rest of galaxy... yet you defend them??????

Because it would make more sense given the setting. We've never seen any good guys and I highly doubt the Necrons were entirely blame. I mean, even the Tau on their best days would at best be unfavorably compared to the People's Republic of China in terms of moral standing and on most days would be compared to Stalin's Russia. I'd expect the Old Ones to be outright evil scientists on the scale of Joseph Mengele themselves given that the big theme in 40k is that nobody is good or even neutral, but is instead abhorrently evil.

The Necrontyr are clearly the bad guys in this instance. The Old Ones should have helped them, or perhaps taken them under their wing. Instead the Old Ones rejected the Necrontyr. This caused a great deal of resentment among the Necrontyr.

The Necrontyr had been infighting since they took to the stars, and probably before then. The Old Ones were rightfully cautious. Perhaps the Old Ones took their retribution too far, they did drive the Necrontyr into the embrace of the C'tan. Whether or not the C'tan were true enemies of the Old Ones from a previous conflict can never be know, but the Necrontyr were happy to exact their vengeance.

The Old Ones were selfish too, like the Necrontyr not being able to accept their short life span, they would not accept their destruction and unleashed the forces that would become Chaos upon the Galaxy. The Necrons were defeated, but gained Immortality. The Old Ones died out/faded out of relevance and their children inherited the stars. Nobody really won & no one side is to blame. In fact, it's probably the Necrons. They destroyed the only beings capable of sealing the Immaterium off from the Galaxy.

 Medium of Death wrote:
The Necrontyr are clearly the bad guys in this instance. The Old Ones should have helped them, or perhaps taken them under their wing. Instead the Old Ones rejected the Necrontyr. This caused a great deal of resentment among the Necrontyr.

The Necrontyr had been infighting since they took to the stars, and probably before then. The Old Ones were rightfully cautious. Perhaps the Old Ones took their retribution too far, they did drive the Necrontyr into the embrace of the C'tan. Whether or not the C'tan were true enemies of the Old Ones from a previous conflict can never be know, but the Necrontyr were happy to exact their vengeance.

The Old Ones were selfish too, like the Necrontyr not being able to accept their short life span, they would not accept their destruction and unleashed the forces that would become Chaos upon the Galaxy. The Necrons were defeated, but gained Immortality. The Old Ones died out/faded out of relevance and their children inherited the stars. Nobody really won & no one side is to blame. In fact, it's probably the Necrons. They destroyed the only beings capable of sealing the Immaterium off from the Galaxy.

The Tyranids can seal off the Immaterium.

By putting this sick and dying galaxy out of it's misery. Given the state of the Milky Way, the Tyranids wiping it clean would be a mercy. And maybe billions of years later something new can rise from the ashes.