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 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Manned to finish that first Horus Heresy book with Gavriel in it, but it bored the crap out of me and there its no way I would waste my time on another... However, way way back there was a book called Space Marine that was brutal! Same time as a Warhammer Fantasy book called Drachenfel. They were fantastic.
I stole one of them from my school library actually, they were that good.

Drachenfels was a good book, one of the best of the early series years before BL came along.

I can't read anything Ben Counter's written: Heavy, clunking prose, no attempt to draw the reader in like ADB or Abnett does.

 Sword Of Caliban wrote:
Of all the horus heresy books I have read I disliked legion
I read through all the heresy books in case I miss anything but legion wasn't great that's the only one though I like the rest. Horus heresy needs more DA!!!

The DA books so far have been atrocious. So perhaps more books for them can remedy this problem. However, the first two were super boring and slow.

It took 600-800 pages to get to the seed of the schism and it's never really explained why the Lion is so autistic and can't judge people.

The Abyss & Fear to Tread are awful and skippable.

My problem with the recent HH books are the focus on the Primarchs.

I totally understand that we needed to learn what the CSM's plan is and the Primarchs are a good source for that and we need to read about some of them ascending.

But, the battles with them suffer from "superman" syndrome. Their kryptonite is some brother emo BS.

Yep, they are strong, but holding up a titian strong, give me a break. In order words, the Primarchs are boring to read about in battle.

I think there is a long gulf between where the series is and the battle for terra. I don't know if I want to read a few years worth of BL HH books if they are like the newest 3 books.

Also, the battles between the Primarchs are pointless and flaccid now, since we know where almost all of them when the battle of Terra happens. What are the chances somebody kills RG or Sang or Russ or ... 0% since we already know what happens to them.

Now, if BL changes the story and something new happens, then I'm all in

evancich wrote:
The Abyss & Fear to Tread are awful and skippable.

My problem with the recent HH books are the focus on the Primarchs.

I totally understand that we needed to learn what the CSM's plan is and the Primarchs are a good source for that and we need to read about some of them ascending.

But, the battles with them suffer from "superman" syndrome. Their kryptonite is some brother emo BS.

Yep, they are strong, but holding up a titian strong, give me a break. In order words, the Primarchs are boring to read about in battle.

I think there is a long gulf between where the series is and the battle for terra. I don't know if I want to read a few years worth of BL HH books if they are like the newest 3 books.

Also, the battles between the Primarchs are pointless and flaccid now, since we know where almost all of them when the battle of Terra happens. What are the chances somebody kills RG or Sang or Russ or ... 0% since we already know what happens to them.

Now, if BL changes the story and something new happens, then I'm all in

Dude I would kiss you on the forhead right now... This is my pespective too....+1

Majority of anything that involves Space Marines really, its all about stroking their e-wang and its never whether they lose or, its always about how well they win

evancich wrote:
The Abyss & Fear to Tread are awful and skippable.

My problem with the recent HH books are the focus on the Primarchs.

I totally understand that we needed to learn what the CSM's plan is and the Primarchs are a good source for that and we need to read about some of them ascending.

But, the battles with them suffer from "superman" syndrome. Their kryptonite is some brother emo BS.

Yep, they are strong, but holding up a titian strong, give me a break. In order words, the Primarchs are boring to read about in battle.

I think there is a long gulf between where the series is and the battle for terra. I don't know if I want to read a few years worth of BL HH books if they are like the newest 3 books.

Also, the battles between the Primarchs are pointless and flaccid now, since we know where almost all of them when the battle of Terra happens. What are the chances somebody kills RG or Sang or Russ or ... 0% since we already know what happens to them.

Now, if BL changes the story and something new happens, then I'm all in

Don't ever read a Superman comic. You'd cry yourself to sleep in a fetal position.

"OMG did Superman just throw a 16-wheeler? This is so OTT!" This is so boring!

< taken by the void dragon >

BlaxicanX wrote:

evancich wrote:
The Abyss & Fear to Tread are awful and skippable.

My problem with the recent HH books are the focus on the Primarchs.

I totally understand that we needed to learn what the CSM's plan is and the Primarchs are a good source for that and we need to read about some of them ascending.

But, the battles with them suffer from "superman" syndrome. Their kryptonite is some brother emo BS.

Yep, they are strong, but holding up a titian strong, give me a break. In order words, the Primarchs are boring to read about in battle.

I think there is a long gulf between where the series is and the battle for terra. I don't know if I want to read a few years worth of BL HH books if they are like the newest 3 books.

Also, the battles between the Primarchs are pointless and flaccid now, since we know where almost all of them when the battle of Terra happens. What are the chances somebody kills RG or Sang or Russ or ... 0% since we already know what happens to them.

Now, if BL changes the story and something new happens, then I'm all in

Don't ever read a Superman comic. You'd cry yourself to sleep in a fetal position.

"OMG did Superman just throw a 16-wheeler? This is so OTT!" This is so boring!

I think you miss my point. We don't know how Superman's story ends. I do know how Sang's story ends and any "peril" the BL HH authors put him in is crazy boring, because:
1) That isn't how he dies
2) The author will just adjust his power level / powers to get Sang out of the situation (just like DC did to Superman in the 60's and 70's)
3) Any other Primarch he is fighting also has very little danger

In other words, these battles in the past 3 HH books are dumb and pointless. Nothing is actually happening that advances the story.

I would much rather have novels about rando SM and troopers than the Primarchs. It is fine to use them as plot devices / prime movers but to focus on a battle that we already know what the outcome is, is not compelling reading especially when the authors' skills aren't up to the task of making such a "painted in the corner" interesting.

The soul drinkers omnibus definitely takes the cake as the worst 40k book I've ever read so far. Got about halfway through, couldn't finish it, never plan to. There's only so much stupid I can take before I just have to stop.

On that note, I've yet to read any deliciously terrible Goto books, and I plan to one day. The universe needs more multilasers and acrobatic terminators.

 Necroshea wrote:
The soul drinkers omnibus definitely takes the cake as the worst 40k book I've ever read so far. Got about halfway through, couldn't finish it, never plan to. There's only so much stupid I can take before I just have to stop.

On that note, I've yet to read any deliciously terrible Goto books, and I plan to one day. The universe needs more multilasers and acrobatic terminators.

Such a cool cover - damn...I was saving that omnibus for a road trip ...

Now, I don't wanna risk...

Books I didnt like.

Redemption Corps - it may have been decent if the book was just written normally. The fact that the book is divided every other chapter normal timeline and future timeline made it awful.

15 Hours -I just felt like I wasted my time when I finished it. I dont like it when everyone dies in a story

Desert Raiders- see above

The Battle of the Fang -Jesus the Space Wolves should have been killed to the man for making some of the dumbest decisions I have ever read in a book

Wrath of Iron. -That book actually caused me to hate the Iron Hands for being complete idiots. The only characters that seem to have any common sense were the Imperial Guardsmen who were increadibly loyal to the Imperium and understood tactics yet at the end they are made out to be the bad guys?



Those are the only books I would actually say I actually disliked.

There are several SM Battles I enjoyed. I enjoyed most of the HH, All the Gaunt's Ghost and Ravenor, Eisenhorn, Ciaphas Cain

- The Greater Good was a total mislead. The title cover showed some bad ass back-to-back fighting between Cain and a Tau, then in the book, the Tau are simply advisers and the cover of the novel doesn't come close to happening. Ever. It was just Cain vs. Tyranids. Fairly boring.

- I absolutely despised McNeil's 'Killing Grounds'. He obviously didn't have his heart in writing the book, GW probably handed him a crap outline as well after smoking something really poor quality. The only decent part of that entire book was the brawl between Leodegarius and our two boys. The rest was a complete snoozefest. Nightbringer - what could have been a great Necron novel - sucked too. It's forgivable because Graham's Ultra series of books are mostly on the better end of the spectrum.

- Dead Men Walking wasn't that great either. Some scrub turns into a super warrior after being drafted, with a painful protracted montage of ascendancy like something you'd see in a Paul Anderson film. The book had a lot of potential being a gigantic playground for a conflict between Necrons and the Guard, but they dropped the ball.

- Caves of Ice was pretty boring too. Lots of backtracking, boring tunnel warfare. I don't know why GW keeps screwing the pooch with the Necron novels (the authors chosen are skilled in most cases, they just have these terrible criteria to be met I'm sure), but it's sort of pissing me off.

Of the buttload of Black Library I've read, those are the only ones I have real complaints about. The rest I've mostly enjoyed and were VERY memorable.

For me, Titanicus is the worst book that I have ever read. Those damn sub-plots had bored me to death.

Now seriously, from diversity of opinions it looks that all warhammer books are terrible. Even ones that I liked to no end... Because of this, I would say to pay to these recommendations as little attention as possible, because there is quite a chance that you will find books which are named here to be at least good.

evancich wrote:

I think you miss my point. We don't know how Superman's story ends. I do know how Sang's story ends and any "peril" the BL HH authors put him in is crazy boring, because:
1) That isn't how he dies
2) The author will just adjust his power level / powers to get Sang out of the situation (just like DC did to Superman in the 60's and 70's)
3) Any other Primarch he is fighting also has very little danger

In other words, these battles in the past 3 HH books are dumb and pointless. Nothing is actually happening that advances the story.

I would much rather have novels about rando SM and troopers than the Primarchs. It is fine to use them as plot devices / prime movers but to focus on a battle that we already know what the outcome is, is not compelling reading especially when the authors' skills aren't up to the task of making such a "painted in the corner" interesting.

Most of Fear to Tread consisted of Sanguinius either sort of standing around, or in a coma.

He fights three times.

evancich wrote:

I think you miss my point. We don't know how Superman's story ends. I do know how Sang's story ends and any "peril" the BL HH authors put him in is crazy boring, because:
1) That isn't how he dies
2) The author will just adjust his power level / powers to get Sang out of the situation (just like DC did to Superman in the 60's and 70's)
3) Any other Primarch he is fighting also has very little danger

In other words, these battles in the past 3 HH books are dumb and pointless. Nothing is actually happening that advances the story.

I would much rather have novels about rando SM and troopers than the Primarchs. It is fine to use them as plot devices / prime movers but to focus on a battle that we already know what the outcome is, is not compelling reading especially when the authors' skills aren't up to the task of making such a "painted in the corner" interesting.

"I know how it ends, so there's no point in telling the story" is terrible logic. I suppose the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings fight scenes in the movies are complete ass, because "lol we all know how the stories end because it was already told in a book".

"OMG! We all know that Obi-Wan Kenobi is alive and well in A New Hope. Why even bother showing all these fight scenes and perilous situations he's apart of in these movies?!"

No, don't be ridiculous. And for the record, if you read a Superman comic and are on the edge of your seat because "I don't know how the Superman story ends- he might die in this battle!" then you seriously don't understand how comic books work.

The books I didn't enjoy were (in no particular order)
Legion, Salamanders trilogy, whichever chaos book the codex cover was taken from, Mechanicum, the eldar path books, sisters of battle audio book (can't remember the title at all. Made that much of an impression on me) , sons of dorn.

TBH I've enjoyed all the other 40k books I've read. Including the soul drinkers and the BK space wolves.
I don't care about writing quality so much - the only crime a book can make IMO is to be boring. Which is something that ties all the above books together.

Lets see, I own two copies of Mechanicum and three Legion ... Love those two.

But the HH books I will probably never read again are Battke for the abyss and first heretic ... They felt like an eternity to chew my way through. The Dark Angel books just feel misplaced :/

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
Lets see, I own two copies of Mechanicum and three Legion

Erm... why?

OT - Nice avatar

I moved to another country and felt the need to read them again. The third copy of Legion
I received as a gift from someone who thought I didn't owe it yet.

Betrayer was actually good! I learned to hate Erebus even more and loved the human side of Kharne.

Surprised how many people are throwing out Legion. Legion was great IMHO, loved that book. Only one I would throw on the chopping block for sure would be Battle for the Abyss. Absolute waste of paper

Yeah, Legion's possibly the best BL novel I've read, IMHO.

 DA's Forever wrote:
Surprised how many people are throwing out Legion. Legion was great IMHO, loved that book. Only one I would throw on the chopping block for sure would be Battle for the Abyss. Absolute waste of paper

People hate the ending. And by ending I mean that twist ending of "the loyal marines decide to listen to xenos when the Imperium warns that Xenos lie and and attempt to missguide Humans and join the traitors because by destroying Humanity they are fulling the dream of the Emperor of Mankind but they do this because they are really loyal."


The book itself could be good but that entire end is enough to completely ruin the book.

 Galdos wrote:

 DA's Forever wrote:
Surprised how many people are throwing out Legion. Legion was great IMHO, loved that book. Only one I would throw on the chopping block for sure would be Battle for the Abyss. Absolute waste of paper

People hate the ending. And by ending I mean that twist ending of "the loyal marines decide to listen to xenos when the Imperium warns that Xenos lie and and attempt to missguide Humans and join the traitors because by destroying Humanity they are fulling the dream of the Emperor of Mankind but they do this because they are really loyal."


The book itself could be good but that entire end is enough to completely ruin the book.

Brilliantly said. Have an exalt.

I know she's a Dakka favorite, but I haven't read anything by Sarah Cawkwell that I enjoyed or didn't have to absolutely force myself to finish. Point in fact, I never did finish "The Gildar Rift." Maybe it's because I find the Silver Skulls so damn boring...

I also dislike "The Hunt for Volorius" a lot.

Battle for the Abyss should be disqualified. So far it has been the most unanimously reviled BL book ever. I have yet to hear anybody say that they enjoyed it.

Soul Drinkers series holds a special place in my heart as it was my first exposure to 40k lore, however they should really take that box of crayons away from Counter - he can be terrible.

BlaxicanX wrote:

evancich wrote:

I think you miss my point. We don't know how Superman's story ends. I do know how Sang's story ends and any "peril" the BL HH authors put him in is crazy boring, because:
1) That isn't how he dies
2) The author will just adjust his power level / powers to get Sang out of the situation (just like DC did to Superman in the 60's and 70's)
3) Any other Primarch he is fighting also has very little danger

In other words, these battles in the past 3 HH books are dumb and pointless. Nothing is actually happening that advances the story.

I would much rather have novels about rando SM and troopers than the Primarchs. It is fine to use them as plot devices / prime movers but to focus on a battle that we already know what the outcome is, is not compelling reading especially when the authors' skills aren't up to the task of making such a "painted in the corner" interesting.

"I know how it ends, so there's no point in telling the story" is terrible logic. I suppose the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings fight scenes in the movies are complete ass, because "lol we all know how the stories end because it was already told in a book".

"OMG! We all know that Obi-Wan Kenobi is alive and well in A New Hope. Why even bother showing all these fight scenes and perilous situations he's apart of in these movies?!"

No, don't be ridiculous. And for the record, if you read a Superman comic and are on the edge of your seat because "I don't know how the Superman story ends- he might die in this battle!" then you seriously don't understand how comic books work.

I guess you are being obstinate and argumentative...

Before the Byrne "re-boot" of Superman, writers (mostly in the '60's and 70's) would and a new power to Superman to help lazy writing. For example, how about the time in #45 he smashed up his face to look like an alien (strangely he never used this power before or after), or the time he reassembled the earth from some rock and re-created the atmosphere (which again appears to be a one-off use of his powers), or the time he lost all of he powers yet was able to shot a tiny superman out of his hand (used only once), or ...

Superman has a well celebrated history of writers adding stupid one off powers to save their story. The HH authors are doing the same with the Primarchs.

I can believe you are attempting to use Ep 1, 2, and 3 to make a positive point. There were very poorly written movies and they don't really help your case.

I can't speak to Harry Potter since I haven't read the books or seen the movies. I'm not really sure what point you are attempting to make wrt LotR. Yes, I read the books before the seeing the movies, but the reason I saw the movies was to see the translation of the books to the screen. I'm not really sure what media translation has to do with BL authors added one-off powers to Primarchs.

My problem with the Primarch focused HH books by focusing on the Primarchs the authors remove peril from the story and they have an easy out which is to up the power level of the Primarch to an absurd level.

What stupid one-off Primarch powers were added to save the story?

I would have to say Titanicus is the worst Ive read so far, for me it felt like to much was going on, I havent even made it half way through and its on my shelf waiting for me to return to it.

Im going to give it another chance, now that I know 40k lore better it may not be as hard to follow.

the DE book renegade, it just felt like the author was trying to hard to make them feel evil.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
I moved to another country and felt the need to read them again. The third copy of Legion
I received as a gift from someone who thought I didn't owe it yet.

Betrayer was actually good! I learned to hate Erebus even more and loved the human side of Kharne.

Erebus is an annoying character who knows what he is a small man trying to get more for himself.

Have not read Betrayer yet, i read AE and it was okay.

Erebus is the man responsible for the Horus Heresy. It was he and Kor Phaeron who corrupted Lorgar.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Erebus is the man responsible for the Horus Heresy. It was he and Kor Phaeron who corrupted Lorgar.

Yea, even lorgar knows they did