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 chris_valera wrote:

Evil & Chaos wrote:
Good thing that our sprues are cheaper than GW sprues, then.

Yes, but they're generic space aliens, with generic vehicles, but your charging a GW-esque price.

Evil & Chaos wrote:
EDIT: I just checked and GW have started to take their 6mm plastics OOP, so your only point of ccomparison now is metal and resin models from other companies, and you can bet we're much cheaper than them!

That's not a great sales pitch. Oh the GW stuff is long-gone, so we're your only option, tee hee!

And stuff does sell online. This is an old, mint condition infantry box that sold for $37, and there was another auction that sold for a similar price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200934642664?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The question is, did the guy get it for cheap, or expensive because the GW stuff is out of print.

As I told another poster by PM, I want to pledge to this, but I just don't see the value in this. Most kickstarters give crazy discounts. It doesn't cost hardly anything to keep running the machines. The sprue costs like fifty cents to make. It really looks like you're trying to sell GW-esque product, at GW prices. I think there's a reason these pledges haven't gone anywhere.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Honestly Chris, if you don't want to buy the £22 box set, E&C just added an option for a sample plastic sprue for £7 that has Infantry & IFV's sprue (56 infantry models, 2x Alien Cannons, 2x human IFV's, 2x Alien Flatbed trucks) plus £3 shipping. I think that is much affordable and won't break the bank to pledge and support consider how a plastic box was about $20 or so for epic 40k IG or SM infantry plastic sprue when they still had it on the GW store.

Sometimes you can score some great deals with Ebay like that example you posted but I think it was mention before that Ebay is never a constant price setting shop like the GW online store, sometimes the person selling doesn't know or care about the true price of the item and just want to get rid of it for a decent price according to that person's opinion. I got 100+ epic 40k IG infantry for like $5 on Ebay 3 months ago but I doubt I will ever get a good deal like that again.

Also if you do know how to produce 50 cent 6mm plastic sprue of infantry and tanks that is GW standard and sell them for less than E&C, please please please do so! It would be a great service for the gaming community especially epic and stick it to GW for getting rid of the specialist games miniatures. Unfortunately, I think E&C has to consider cost of machinery and tool cutting as well as material as he stated a few times since they don't pay for themselves. Honestly, machinery to make the sprues are pretty expensive otherwise GW wouldn't be the sticking us with the high prices for their stuff and 3D printers would be in every house. I seen Shapeways has 3D print 6mm miniatures but if you want detail, it's way more costly.

I plan to pledge if E&C add some more poses for the human sprue. If he does, great he got another supporter. If he doesn't, well I would be a bit disappointed but I wouldn't rant for several weeks why I won't pledge.

I post because I'm on the fence about it, though as my friend said over PM, perhaps they don't realize the disparity in the exchange rates.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Evil & Chaos wrote:
EDIT: I just checked and GW have started to take their 6mm plastics OOP, so your only point of ccomparison now is metal and resin models from other companies, and you can bet we're much cheaper than them!

That's not a great sales pitch. Oh the GW stuff is long-gone, so we're your only option, tee hee!

No, we're one of dozens of options. And we're the cheapest.
Forget about GW, they're in the process of making 6mm scifi OOP; We're charging considerably less than any other 6mm scifi manufacturer.

And stuff does sell online. This is an old, mint condition infantry box that sold for $37, and there was another auction that sold for a similar price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200934642664?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I've told you before, no company that wants to actually survive can price itself against the second hand market.

Furthermore, you're comparing a sprue that contains 1 infantry sculpt and 1 vehicle sculpt, to a sprue that contains at minimum 2 infantry sculpts and 2 vehicle sculpts (and in the next couple of days the factory will tell us whether we've actually raised enough to have more like 6-8 infantry sculpts - it's my belief we have raised enough for several more sculpts at least).

The question is, did the guy get it for cheap, or expensive because the GW stuff is out of print.

The question is, do you want to buy second hand models that have been OOP for 20 years, or do you want to buy new models from a company that's actively trying to support 6mm scifi gaming.

If what you want is OOP GW Epic figures, go to eBay.

As I told another poster by PM, I want to pledge to this, but I just don't see the value in this. Most kickstarters give crazy discounts.

Those kickstarters are working with 28mm scale models, and can be sure of raising not £8,000 but £80,000 or even £800,000.
The market for 6mm is comparatively tiny. If you're expecting us to be able to afford to give you a 50% discount then I'm sorry, we're too poor to afford that and the market for 6mm scifi is too small to support that.

Nevertheless, we have put a "free stuff" stretch goal in place - if we make it to £8000 (and we should, at the current rate of pledges) then every person who's pledged £45 or more gets one free plastic sprue, and every person who's pledged £90 or more gets two free plastic sprues.

If that's not "crazy" enough for you, go to eBay.
No 28mm company matches eBay prices, and no 6mm company matches eBay prices.
We're not going to sell you models at eBay prices.
I'm really sorry but we can't afford more than the thousands of pounds that we've already put in as start-up investment, and we can't afford to sell you our brand new 6mm scifi models for less than our current offer (which is already cheaper than any other 6mm scifi manufacturer on the market).

It doesn't cost hardly anything to keep running the machines. The sprue costs like fifty cents to make.

Actually, all-in it's costing us slightly over twice that per sprue.
.
We also have about £5500 in tooling costs to pay for.
And £3000 in metal moulding and production to pay for.
And postage and packaging that will cost us the best part of £1000.
And other costs besides.

If you can find cash in our figures to give you "crazy" discounts, then I encourage you to start your own 6mm scifi company and sell your products at "crazy" prices; We'll buy from you!

It really looks like you're trying to sell GW-esque product, at GW prices. I think there's a reason these pledges haven't gone anywhere.

We asked for £2250. We're at £7150 and rising. Our campaign has been a massive and amazing success that has smashed our expectations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daemonknight wrote:
I plan to pledge if E&C add some more poses for the human sprue. If he does, great he got another supporter. If he doesn't, well I would be a bit disappointed but I wouldn't rant for several weeks why I won't pledge.

I've asked the factory to quote me for adding a missile launcher trooper to the human side of the sprue, and alternate rifleman poses will come after that if we can afford it. :-)

My favorite thing about this campaign is that it really is a by-gamers-for-gamers independant raising of funds to make a specific project a reality and NOT a unnecessary preorder at discount prices.

Evil & Chaos, I appreciate the sample pledge level. I pledged for it and look forward to sampling your product.

I feel bad that I bugged you earlier in the thread for a "just humans" option and didn't claim it, but it will be nice to have that option if I buy more of your product when it hits general release. It's just that the pledge is high enough ($42ish) that every time I tried to pull the trigger, i ended up looking at my 12 completed 15mm guys next to their myriad besprued companions and the many other 6mm guys too ugly or boring to grace a venerable Battle Barge or Shrineship, and then I looked at your 1 human pose and 1 vehicle...and I just couldn't do it in good conscience. $42 would buy me two boxes of minis I would love to have for sure and a 6mm clone army might not get me the same utility, unless they strike my fancy. But I wanted to support you and to give your products a chance. Thank you for making a sample pledge and responding so enthusiastically to my feedback. I really hope you can get those extra sculpts on the sprue!

Thanks for your support Bob, we are a small company and every pledge helps!

Hopefully when you get your sprue in the post, you'll find it has more variety. If we get to our £8k stretch goal I think there's a good chance of getting a decent variety on there.

BobtheInquisitor, you might like to have a look at these. I think Evil & Chaos is still awaiting final confirmation on costings from the factory, but it's looking like a funding total of £8000 will see these chaps on the sprues.

Oh geez. They'd be absolutely dorky looking at 28mm, but at 6mm those things are pretty nice looking. I need to hurry up and figure out about what I'd need to get in order to flesh out a modest IG or Ork army for my Space Marines to beat on.

Don't worry Bob, I've upped my pledge to switch to just Humans, so we'll just say I've got yours! Also added on a little bit more for 10 "Churchill-Pattern Leman Russes".

 Lansirill wrote:
Oh geez. They'd be absolutely dorky looking at 28mm, but at 6mm those things are pretty nice looking.

Aye, the sculpting requirements are really very different for 28mm!

Thanks for your interest!

I like the idea and I'm prepared to back it (first I've heard of it), but am I the only one who's a little off-put by the sponson and hull weapons on this? They look dangerously similar to a few GW products (by dangerous, I mean the way we understand GW on this website.)

Anyway. Looks exciting. I'm going to back if I can, in the morning.

Hi Scipio Africanus,

We have drawn from historical and common scifi/fantasy tropes for this project.

The Churchillian tank for example is based very closely on the WWII Churchill tank, with added sponsons.

The sponson guns are based on a variety of real world shotguns

The hull weapon is based on my favourite gun, The Jackhammer Shotgun.


Thanks for your interest, as an aside we're looking good at the current uptake rate to hit £8k, at which point everyone who's pledged at least £45 gets a free sprue, and everyone who's pledged £90 gets two free sprues!

Evil & Chaos wrote:
Hi Scipio Africanus,

We have drawn from historical and common scifi/fantasy tropes for this project.

The Churchillian tank for example is based very closely on the WWII Churchill tank, with added sponsons.

The sponson guns are based on a variety of real world shotguns

The hull weapon is based on my favourite gun, The Jackhammer Shotgun.


Thanks for your interest, as an aside we're looking good at the current uptake rate to hit £8k, at which point everyone who's pledged at least £45 gets a free sprue, and everyone who's pledged £90 gets two free sprues!

Okay, I do - like - the design I'm looking at quite a lot, (I like the concept for the games, too.) I hope you can understand where the concern comes from, however.

 Apologist wrote:
BobtheInquisitor, you might like to have a look at these. I think Evil & Chaos is still awaiting final confirmation on costings from the factory, but it's looking like a funding total of £8000 will see these chaps on the sprues.

Those would be awesome. A bit of variety like that means I can make statues out of the figure...but also troops! When the Robotech stuff arrives, I might just get an entire conventional army for them to stomp. Hopefully by then, there will be some stock in the US at my FLGS or the War Store to make shipping and paying less of a hassle.

Hey Bob: Feel free to ask your FLGS or the Warstore to contact us and ask for trade terms... local customers asking to buy a box or three will definitely have more weight in getting DiD into FLGS's than us just emailing them out of the blue.

Here's our latest campaign update:

Holy wow!
We made it to £8000!

Can we (dare we say it) get to “Over 9000”?!

If we pass £9000, we’re prepared to DOUBLE our £8000 stretch rewards, so everyone who has pledged £45 or more will receive TWO free Infantry & IFV’s plastic sprues, and everyone who has pledged £90 or more will receive FOUR free plastic infantry & IFV’s sprues.

And if not, well, we’re still overwhelmed by the incredible support we’ve received.

Evil & Chaos wrote:
Here's our latest campaign update:

Holy wow!
We made it to £8000!

Can we (dare we say it) get to “Over 9000”?!

If we pass £9000, we’re prepared to DOUBLE our £8000 stretch rewards, so everyone who has pledged £45 or more will receive TWO free Infantry & IFV’s plastic sprues, and everyone who has pledged £90 or more will receive FOUR free plastic infantry & IFV’s sprues.

And if not, well, we’re still overwhelmed by the incredible support we’ve received.

I must admit, this new goal, and the new unlockables, has moved me closer than ever to ordering.

edit: Oh wait, just checked it again; you have to pledge £45 or more? Why can't you just toss it in with the purchase of a box?

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Oh wait, just checked it again; you have to pledge £45 or more? Why can't you just toss it in with the purchase of a box?

We want to put profits into making the plastic sprue better (adding more sculpts & poses), thereby giving a better product to everyone (everyone who pledges for a box containing the plastics, at the least).

If we get to £10k, maybe everyone will get something for free. We'll see how our finances look if we make it that far.

As it stands right now we're still on course to put £3-£4k of our own money into the project ourselves to make sure the sprue is as great as we can afford it to be, which means there's not a great deal of "spare" cash floating around!

From the campaign :

35 Hours To Go!

The £9000 stretch goal point is nearly within reach, it’s so close that we can almost taste the free plastic sprues for contributors who’ve pledged £45 or more… so what happens when you go “over 9000”?

Well, if we pass £9000 and end up hitting the mighty £10,000, we’ll give a free metal Human Supreme Commander and a free metal Alien Supreme Commander to every pledger who’s contributed £50 or more.

We love you guys; This funding campaign has been amazing.

Here’s to the next 35 hours!

Evil & Chaos wrote:
From the campaign :

35 Hours To Go!

The £9000 stretch goal point is nearly within reach, it’s so close that we can almost taste the free plastic sprues for contributors who’ve pledged £45 or more… so what happens when you go “over 9000”?

Well, if we pass £9000 and end up hitting the mighty £10,000, we’ll give a free metal Human Supreme Commander and a free metal Alien Supreme Commander to every pledger who’s contributed £50 or more.

We love you guys; This funding campaign has been amazing.

Here’s to the next 35 hours!

Meh, I'd rather get an extra sprue of infantry, or have the point of entry lowered to where you get the extra sprues with the purchase of a box.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Well, sorry Chris, we ran the numbers and just couldn't afford to give free stuff to everyone just yet; we can only afford to give free things to our above-average pledgers.

Anyone who spends over £45 at this point gets two free plastic sprues, and over £90 and you get four free plastic sprues.

For yourself, if you spent:

£25 - Box of only Humans (or was it Aliens you wanted? I forget)
£18 - Lancastrian Bomber Squadron
£3 - International postage

Well that'd be £46 and you'd nab yourself two more Infantry & IFV's plastic sprues for free. Thanks for your interest.

If we get to £11k we'll be able to do a free sprue (or a free "something else", see below....) for everyone who spent over £25. I doubt we'll make it that high, but you never know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And speaking of rewards for larger contributors, we've just upped the £10k reward, DOUBLING it for £100+ pledgers and TRIPLING it for £150+ pledgers.

And we have a little sneaky hint as to what the £11k reward may be...

the sprue is starting to look GREAT actually :

I'd note we can't 100% confirm the contents of the sprue just yet as it's dependent on funding, but we're pretty confident about what we can deliver.

Yes, sorry i got carried away, but IT DOES look good, much better than where it started from for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Closing in on 10K. That would make each 45£ plege get 2 additional sprues, plus a free metal leader !

I think the value is quite nice.

Athmos wrote:
Yes, sorry i got carried away, but IT DOES look good, much better than where it started from for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Closing in on 10K. That would make each 45£ plege get 2 additional sprues, plus a free metal leader !

I think the value is quite nice.

£50 is needed for the free metal leader. £45 for the 2 additional sprues.

Yeah, true. Still, the 10K are in, that's still quite a bit of free stuff for 50£


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, it's starting to look like the 12K bar will be passed. That would mean free stuff for everyone !

 chris_valera wrote:
So I checked in on this kickstarter over today, and to my surprise, it's up to £11,523 with just eight hours remaining.

Honestly I'm torn on this. I want to pledge, but what you get for your money is ludicrous, to the point where I almost think you're trolling me.

Well there's irony. Pot, meet the kettle...

 chris_valera wrote:


I wanted to pledge like $70-100 on this, and would have, if you guys had been just a little more generous. But seeing what this kickstarter has to offer just makes me want to pass completely..

I even considered dropping my pledge down to get just the grots, but then I realize the entire effort isn't worth it.

Now it seems your stretch rewards are ludicrous, to the point where they are insulting.

You never had any intention of pledging Chris. You're the proverbial empty can that rattles the loudest. Most of your posts in this thread have been complaining about the offering and asking for something else. You wanted only one faction - an option was provided. You bitched that the price was too high - it was lowered. You complained about the bases and you were offered the option to swap them out for more infantry - but you kept complaining about the bases and you did it again in this post...

I'm surprised you haven't asked Troublemaker Games to pay YOU in return for graciously allowing them to send you product

 chris_valera wrote:

"Pledge £30 or more and receive a free hardcopy rulebook?" Wow great, a hardcopy rulebook of a game, where I'm just going to use the figures for Epic or Exodus Wars, and a good many other people will as well. I have no interest in this, and I'll wagers other won't as well.

"Pledge £100 or more and receieve two sprues of plastic bases?" What the feth is this?! You're just trolling us at this point. What the feth am I going to do with round plastic bases, if I play Epic?! For that matter, what am I going to do with plastic bases, with no figures to put on them? This is some masterful trolling.

The free metal Human and Alien Supreme Commander models being given away at the higher stretch goals don't interest me either.

They interest plenty of other people. It's pretty obvious you're in a minority here. Maybe Troublemaker Games is aiming higher than just providing figures for GW's game. Complaining about something being offered free - to other people because you haven't even pledged a penny - surely YOU'RE the troll.

 chris_valera wrote:

Seriously, you couldn't just toss in an extra sprue with the purchase of a box? That's it? It would have cost you almost nothing, an extra buck per sprue, you mentioned? How can that possibly cost less than a freaking rulebook? Not everyone will want a rulebook for a game they're not even sure they will like, but everyone wants more models.

What do you care? You haven't even pledged for the box in the first place.

The point of the rewards in a crowfunder is to get people to buy more than just the minimum by rewarding people who've bought done just that. By offering an incentive, you get people to increase their bids. I'd have thought you knew this, since you give the appearance of knowing everything.

The rulebook is an opportunity for Troublemaker Games to bring their new product to a large audience. Maybe no-one will buy a rulebook from a small company of their own accord, and for sure not everyone involved in this will be interested either, but a certain percentage of people funding this project will give it a look, and they'll be converted. Troublemaker Games will increase its customer base - and interestingly for the customer, won't have done it by charging extra. He's obviously taking a financial risk by doing this (because we're not paying for it) but I think it's a smart move and hope it brings him more customers long term.

Again, I'd have thought you'd know this since it's so blindingly obvious to me, but your rage-quit post may be alcohol-fueled and you probably can't think straight.

 chris_valera wrote:

Plastic sprues are supposed to cost *less* than metal models, but you crow about how your prices are the same, and the fact that they're generic figures at that should bring the price down as well.

Zombicide Season 2 can get away with charging fans full price for the second edition of the game, because they discounted Season 1 and they give away *so* much stuff, and have the option to buy exclusive figures. There's a LOT of value there. Here, none.

As I've said before, it seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, charging GW-esque prices, for non-GW models.

It's like you can't read. It's been explained to you before that this is essentially a one-man project. He's not making the vast quantities of money you think he is. He's not rolling in the cash because he's stiffed you out of one extra sprue in your non-existent box. The costs have been laid out transparently for everybody who's literate.

 chris_valera wrote:

With these latest stretch rewards it just seems like your willfully trolling us at this point.

Get bent, I will NOT be pledging to this kickstarter.

There was never any doubt in my mind that you weren't going to pledge anyway - thank you for not failing to disappoint, as usual.

There's only one troll in this thread and it's you.

angryboy2k wrote:
You never had any intention of pledging Chris.

I like your magic mind-reading powers, where can I get mine?

angryboy2k wrote:
You're the proverbial empty can that rattles the loudest. Most of your posts in this thread have been complaining about the offering and asking for something else. You wanted only one faction - an option was provided. You bitched that the price was too high - it was lowered. You complained about the bases and you were offered the option to swap them out for more infantry - but you kept complaining about the bases and you did it again in this post...

I'm surprised you haven't asked Troublemaker Games to pay YOU in return for graciously allowing them to send you product

I love you so much. I wish I could box you up and take you home.

angryboy2k wrote:
They interest plenty of other people.

Show me this mad rush of people that are just so overjoyed to receive bases, with no figures to put on them.

angryboy2k wrote:
What do you care? You haven't even pledged for the box in the first place.

I care because I want to pledge, duh. But oh wait, thanks to your magic mind-reading powers I, er, wasn't going to pledge. Makes perfect sense!

angryboy2k wrote:
By offering an incentive, you get people to increase their bids. I'd have thought you knew this, since you give the appearance of knowing everything.

A free sprue of bases?! That's an incentive? Maybe if I'm a good boy, and pony up even more cash, they'll even throw in some free pocket lint! OH BOY!

angryboy2k wrote:
but a certain percentage of people funding this project will give it a look, and they'll be converted.

Or maybe they're just giving customers what they want to give, and not something what they could actually use, which is more sprues. Maybe these are just Ork knock-offs, and they know damn well people are just going to use them for Epic. Maybe they know this and they're doing everything in their power to give away anything except more sprues.

angryboy2k wrote:
Troublemaker Games will increase its customer base - and interestingly for the customer, won't have done it by charging extra.

No, they've have done it by forcing the customer to accept something of little value (a rulebook) versus something of much greater value; more figures.

angryboy2k wrote:
He's obviously taking a financial risk by doing this (because we're not paying for it) but I think it's a smart move and hope it brings him more customers long term.

Amazing how every incentive doesn't involve giving away an extra sprue.

angryboy2k wrote:
Again, I'd have thought you'd know this since it's so blindingly obvious to me, but your rage-quit post may be alcohol-fueled and you probably can't think straight.

Nope, stone sober. Wrong again. Maybe your magic mind-reading powers are on the fritz.

angryboy2k wrote:
It's like you can't read. It's been explained to you before that this is essentially a one-man project. He's not making the vast quantities of money you think he is. He's not rolling in the cash because he's stiffed you out of one extra sprue in your non-existent box. The costs have been laid out transparently for everybody who's literate.

He's said himself that the sprue only costs an extra buck to make. Yet he's charging ten, which is a woeful price, and higher than GW was charging for their sprues.

angryboy2k wrote:
There was never any doubt in my mind that you weren't going to pledge anyway - thank you for not failing to disappoint, as usual.

There's only one troll in this thread and it's you.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of buying official Ork sprues on ebay. I may also spend that $75 on a discounted box set of Escape from Goblin Town, to add to the three sets I already own. The Thorin's company models become redundant past the first set, but you can trade them for other figs (like say, the Empire figs I'm looking for in my sig as well as some Epic Orks)

But I guess your magic mind-reading power missed that.

But you see? Customers shop for things that have value, and they have choices in the market place. A $75 set of Escape from Goblin Town (normally $125) is a good deal. This kickstarter... is not. I was interested in this kickstarter because I really did need 6mm scale Orks (and make no mistake, they are Ork knock-offs) But creating a kickstarter and charging customers full price for for unofficial Ork knock-offs that they could easily get on discount at a local hobby shop if they waited is pretty poor value indeed.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh hey, speak of the devil, look what I just bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251296396295&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

Gee $12.73, shipped, for a sprue of official Games Workshop-brand figures. Only three dollars less than what TG is offering, and you know it's a fair price because Epic sprues sell for about fair value on ebay. Even when you account for the vehicles on the TG sprue, it's a better value because they are official figures, and TG's not-Orks should sell for slightly less, because they are generic.

It's almost like what I'm saying is true, they're selling a GW knock off product at a GW price.

I'd love to see what Troublemaker's knock-offs sell for on ebay once they're released. Even Mantic sells their product at a slight discount to GW's.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 chris_valera wrote:


Show me this mad rush of people that are just so overjoyed to receive bases, with no figures to put on them.

I happen to like the bases. 30 out of 470 pledges have been for bases, so I guess other people like them too. They are actually great for putting Epic command units on and keeping them separate from the units they're attached too. An entire Epic force based on round bases also looks pretty good (yes, they're legal by the rules, and yes, I've seen such an army before).

And no, you were never going to pledge - unless you could be given product for less than it costs to produce, distribute and manufacture. You've made it abundantly clear that your point of comparison is second hand GW product on eBay.

 chris_valera wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
Troublemaker Games will increase its customer base - and interestingly for the customer, won't have done it by charging extra.

No, they've have done it by forcing the customer to accept something of little value (a rulebook) versus something of much greater value; more figures.

They could have offered nothing at all. There's nothing obliging them to do this. The goals of the project have already been met, people didn't buy with the expectation of more stuff so there's no room for disappointment by not offering more. Offering anything is a nice gesture that costs TG money and costs the customers nothing. The fact that YOU are not happy about getting free stuff doesn't mean everyone else will be.

 chris_valera wrote:


Gee $12.73, shipped, for a sprue of official Games Workshop-brand figures. Only three dollars less than what TG is offering, and you know it's a fair price because Epic sprues sell for about fair value on ebay. Even when you account for the vehicles on the TG sprue, it's a better value because they are official figures, and TG's not-Orks should sell for slightly less, because they are generic.

You picked up a single sprue of figures plus some bases for ten bucks plus shipping? Am I supposed to be impressed by that? You could have picked up a sample sprue from this crowdfunder for 15 bucks and it would have had about the same number of infantry while including vehicles.

Anyway, I don't see how the figures are "better value" for being "official". Being official is meaningless when the game is dead.

The only things that count now are quality, quantity, and how much I like the figures. I've already got lots of GW orks. I don't need more of them. I think TG's not-orks are nice, they will add variety to my army, and by buying them I'm supporting someone who's going to keep producing new models that are compatible with Epic, which long term means more variety and more enjoyment for me.

I don't have any IG, so TG's offering gives me a small human force that I can lend to someone else to try the game, or give to my friend who does have an IG force. Alternatively I get the option to try them out with a different ruleset that might be better than Epic. I don't have enough rectangular bases for these models, but luckily these come with bases so I can use a bunch of round bases for my Space Marines (they'll look great on the round bases) and then I will have enough rectangular ones to base up these not-orks (having them match with the rest of my orks) while still leaving enough round bases for the humans.

You're throwing out a lot of vitriol towards this. You seem to be unhappy because you aren't being offered exactly what you want - which seems now to be second-hand GW figures (notwithstanding that you've already moved the goalposts several times in this thread). You've already exercised your option not to buy so what's the point in throwing a temper tantrum?

The success of this project so far shows that you're in a minority, so I for one am glad that TG didn't choose to bankrupt itself by bending to your every whim expressed in this thread. You're a perfect example of how the customer isn't always right - except you're not even a customer.

Good morning everybody!

Thanks to Chris for keeping our thread at the top of the news & rumour section for the last few hours.


Here are our final offers for the last hour!

- £8000 - Everyone who has pleged £45 or more will receive a free plastic infantry & IFV's sprue. Everyone who has pledged £90 or more will received two free plastic infantry & IFV's sprues - ACHIEVED!

- £9000 - We'll DOUBLE the £8000 pledge level, so that everyone who has pleged £45 or more will receive two plastic infantry & IFV's sprues. Everyone who has pledged £90 or more will received four free plastic infantry & IFV's sprues - ACHIEVED!

- £10,000 - Everyone who has pledged £50 or more will receive a free Human Supreme Commander and a free Alien Supreme Commander - Everyone who has pledged £100 or more will receive two of each free Supreme Commander - Everyone who has pledged £150 or more will receive three of each free supreme commander - ACHIEVED!

- £11,000 - pledge £30 or more and receive a free hardcopy rulebook. Pledge £100 or more and receieve two sprues of plastic bases. - ACHIEVED!

- £12,000 - The free metal Human and Alien Supreme Commander models, previously only available to pledgers who spent £50 or more, will now be sent out to everyone who has made a Pledge (Ie we are extending the free leaders reward all the way down to people who only Pledge for a Sample sprue). - IN PROGRESS!

We're just £170 off of 12k now!

There's also a 13k stretch goal should a whole bunch of people jump on it at the last minute:

- £13,000 - The free Human and Alien Supreme Commander models will be joined by a free Gobbler High (low?) Commander model, who will also be sent out free to every single Pledger. - READY!