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I have been wracking my mind around ways to beat a farsight/shadowsun/librarian-null zone,gate bomb for the last month and a half. I play necrons. Primarily the Air Force but try not to spam it due to its lethality. However, I can't find a way to beat the farsight bomb without actually tailoring for it at 1250. If you had to face this list what would you play? With allies or convenience or not? This list can infiltrate, auto hit deepstrike with the warlord trait, move 24" with the gate each turn after the frat and put out a ton of melts and plasma shots hitting multiple target at a time....6 was the last count. And jump shoot jump. What kind of list would you make that could handle this list and other lists?

As necrons I would take the heavy support scythe and death ray the unit since it is in a nice circle shape, you should be able to take out 3-4 suits on the initial pass, significantly reducing its damage.

Depends. Do you want to win the game? At 1250 he's spending half his points on a single unit. That doesn't leave a lot for anything else like, I dunno, B-sides, riptides or additional crisis suits and still have a decent amount for lots of troops. Let him jump around and kill your stuff - just make sure you're killing off his troops. Then on turn 5 dump out your troops from the scythes on the objectives and hold on tight and pray for a roll of 1

Being another Tau, Farseer ally with doom.
The riptide str 9 blasts will inta-gib most things, but i personally dont run riptides ( dont have the cash for one, and i prefer crisis teams )

And as weird as i am i actually think of running Wraithguard allies, wounds on 2+ and no armor saves + doom.

Dracoknight wrote:
Being another Tau, Farseer ally with doom.
The riptide str 9 blasts will inta-gib most things, but i personally dont run riptides ( dont have the cash for one, and i prefer crisis teams )

And as weird as i am i actually think of running Wraithguard allies, wounds on 2+ and no armor saves + doom.

wraithguard dont ignore cover, so if this is a farsight shadowsun combo you arent going to kill many. The riptide can use markerlights to ignore cover.

Do I want to win the game? Honestly I am perplexed by this question. It seems a bit redundant. Well I not only want to win the game but I want to decimate this list. Also in the list are 2 rip tides kitted out for anti air and 3 6 man squads of fire warriors. He screens the suits while have the rip tides take post near the warriors. Would a full fledge Air Force with 2 night scythes and 3 doom scythes be another to "rip this team and other lists a new one?"

I haven't found a foolproof way to take out the bomb, I think snipers could be effective. the power of the bomb comes from only 2 models; shadowsun and the support shas'vre with the ccm and msss. If you can get enough rending precision shots on them, you could cripple the bomb, although with their cover save even this may not work.

btw, one response I see to the bomb is "ignore the bomb and take out his troops, then you win on points." This may work against other elite units, but it will not work against the farsight bomb, because it is capable of tabling an entire army by itself if it isn't stopped early enough.

I have considered trying the deathmarks with veiltek tactic but there is no way to guarantee an auto hit to get it to land where you need it to. Also with the anti air it's hard to get them on the field by using a night scythe. in my experience I have seen this particular list table 2500 points of grey knights without losing more than a couple of gun drones which are great for the auto look out sir Farsight confers to his body guards. I think the best bet for necrons could be blobs of warriors and immortals but at 1250 (the norm played at the venue I play at) it's a tough fit.

You could always try playing them at their own game with Veil of Darkness Crypteks.

Mobility will be key in defeating the bomb. You're most likely gonna get out-shot and you won't be able to pin them down thanks to hit and run.

Instead of ignoring them, make them waste their turns trying to catch up to you.

Iranna.

I guess a way to do it is cause sniper hits or other hits you cant LOS against. ( As ninjastars mentioned )

In the case of Tau Sniper drones + markerlights to take out shadowsun, and then save the markerlights to get the BS for the rest of your units ( since sniper drones are already BS5 due to the marksman ) After shadowsun is gone you rely less on the hits of markerlights and more on the amount of fire you can put into them.

Just a reminder that Shadowsun have 5++ and Farsight have 4++ due to her suit and his shield.

Saltydog367 wrote:
I have been wracking my mind around ways to beat a farsight/shadowsun/librarian-null zone,gate bomb for the last month and a half. I play necrons. Primarily the Air Force but try not to spam it due to its lethality. However, I can't find a way to beat the farsight bomb without actually tailoring for it at 1250. If you had to face this list what would you play? With allies or convenience or not? This list can infiltrate, auto hit deepstrike with the warlord trait, move 24" with the gate each turn after the frat and put out a ton of melts and plasma shots hitting multiple target at a time....6 was the last count. And jump shoot jump. What kind of list would you make that could handle this list and other lists?

he cant infilitrate

how do you jsj with a librarian in the unit? they use him as the rubber band they jump back to?

how does he fit all the toys into a farsight bomb at 1250? my bomb costs me almost 950 points and i dont use a librarian and at 1500 all i can fit is 2 riptides and 3x10 kroot.

I have face necrons once with my farsight vomv and the two scary things are

wraiths

mass tesla spam.

here are the things that are super potent against tau (against anyone really)
a barges
command barges
nightscythe troops
wraiths (with or without dlord)

The list can infiltrate so long as he sits farsight out of the body guard squad.

You can JSJ all you want with models that can make the move.

you just have to end in unit coherency

With shadow sun basically making them terminators, you will need to dump as many shots as possible and make him roll dice.

Id say bubble wrap up to 9" from vehicles then when it comes focus it as hard as possible.

Okay the most current version of the list is as fooled and only has one riptide. He says that because shadowsun is in the squad the whole unit may infiltrate. The pieces that can jump shoot jump spread out to turn the ball into a blob that can't be hit as easily by Flamers. I believe the librarian stays put as the suits dance around him.

Farsight Bomb (1250pts)

1250pt Space Marines 6th Ed , Tau Empire 6th Ed (2013) Roster (Allied Detachment, Primary Detachment)

Space Marines 6th Ed (Allied Detachment) Selections:

HQ ()

Librarian ()
And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Psyker
Force Dome, Terminator Armour (), The Gate of Infinity
Troops ()

Scout Squad ()
And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Scouts
4x Scout (), Scout Sergeant ()
Tau Empire 6th Ed (2013) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

(No Category) ()

XV8 Crisis Farsight Bodyguard Team ()
Crisis Bodyguard ()
Supporting Fire, Sworn Protector, Very Bulky
Command and Control Node (), Crisis battlesuit, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite (), Neuroweb System Jammer (), Puretide Engram Neurochip (), Vectored retro-thrusters ()
Crisis Bodyguard ()
Supporting Fire, Sworn Protector, Very Bulky
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer (), Fusion blaster (), Target lock ()
Crisis Bodyguard ()
Supporting Fire, Sworn Protector, Very Bulky
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer (), Fusion blaster (), Target lock ()
Crisis Bodyguard ()
Supporting Fire, Sworn Protector, Very Bulky
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer (), Plasma rifle (), Target lock ()
Crisis Bodyguard ()
Supporting Fire, Sworn Protector, Very Bulky
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer (), Plasma rifle (), Target lock ()
Crisis Bodyguard ()
Supporting Fire, Sworn Protector, Very Bulky
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer (), Plasma rifle (), Target lock ()
4x Gun Drone ()
4x Twin-linked pulse carbine
HQ ()

Commander Farsight ()
Independent Character, Preferred Enemy (Orks), Supporting Fire, Very Bulky
Crisis battlesuit, Plasma rifle, Shield generator, The Dawn Blade
Commander Shadowsun ()
Defender of the Greater Good, Independent Character, Infiltrate, Supporting Fire
Advanced targeting system, 2x Fusion blaster, XV22 Stealth Battlesuit
Elites ()

XV104 Riptide ()
Nova Reactor, Supporting Fire
Counterfire defence system (), Heavy burst cannon, Riptide battlesuit, Riptide Shield Generator, Stimulant injector (35pts), Twin-linked plasma rifle
Troops ()

Fire Warrior Team ()
Supporting Fire
6x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle (), Photon grenades
Fire Warrior Team ()
Supporting Fire
6x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle (), Photon grenades

 Desubot wrote:
The list can infiltrate so long as he sits farsight out of the body guard squad.

How? The only way to join an IC to a squad during deployment is for them to be deployed in coherency with the squad. As the crisis team doesn't have infiltrate, Shadowsun cannot be attached to the squad until after they've been deployed normally. By the time you get to being able to join Shadowsun to them they are already on the board.

Also @ Saltydog - publishing detailed points costs breaches forum rules. You might want to edit that last post.

Get rid of individual point cost. its against the rules

From what i understood, an IC joins ether on the field within 2" coherency, or in reserves, which occurs after initial deployment, all you would need to do is declare they are attached after standard deployment but before infiltrate/scout.
and for what its worth my LFGS which is also a GW store plays it that way anyway (which actually isnt saying much (from what i understand the situation was still being debated so ask your play group))

 Desubot wrote:
Get rid of individual point cost. its against the rules

From what i understood, an IC joins ether on the field within 2" coherency, or in reserves, which occurs after initial deployment, all you would need to do is declare they are attached after standard deployment but before infiltrate/scout.
and for what its worth my LFGS which is also a GW store plays it that way anyway (which actually isnt saying much (from what i understand the situation was still being debated so ask your play group))

But how does the non-infiltrate unit get to being between deployment phases? Either it is on the table, or it has been put into reserve. If its in reserve then it can't be infiltrated.

Your group is obviously free to house rule it any way you like, but it should not be possible under the base rules.

Fixed it, sorry guys and gals. It won't happen again.

That bomb doesn't even seem that scary. It can't be charged with throwaway troops because of flamers/JSJ, but that's not really even a problem for 'crons. Really if you wanted to ruin his day just ally a Vindicare. Outside that, he has very little antiflyer, and very little real AT. I'd just use necron's strong points of av13 and flyers, combine some scarab/wraith fast assaults and a bit of warrior bubblewrap and call it a day.

Saltydog367 wrote:
I have been wracking my mind around ways to beat a farsight/shadowsun/librarian-null zone,gate bomb for the last month and a half. I play necrons. Primarily the Air Force but try not to spam it due to its lethality. However, I can't find a way to beat the farsight bomb without actually tailoring for it at 1250. If you had to face this list what would you play? With allies or convenience or not? This list can infiltrate, auto hit deepstrike with the warlord trait, move 24" with the gate each turn after the frat and put out a ton of melts and plasma shots hitting multiple target at a time....6 was the last count. And jump shoot jump. What kind of list would you make that could handle this list and other lists?

I don't play Necrons, but couldn't you bring a doomsday arc or 2? St9 Large blast sounds like it could be good against them. Also, do they have enough firepower to take down two units of wraiths? Those things light me up in CC. Finally how many fusion blasters does he bring? Monolith might be good if he only brings one or so.

Ive played the tau farsight/shadowsun bomb

HE MAY NOT INFILITRATE, period amen till their is a faq...

Necro force to beat it - pick from the choices i provide

HQ - based on what you have or prefer to use but take either....

dlord (goes in wraiths) -- make the wraiths far scarier

command barge -- more dakka dakka tesla

Troop

(2-4) Nightscythes with 5 man warriors for last minute objective grabbing ((if you can fit 3x a barges and max wraiths and still have points make the warriors immortals with tesla)

if you cant get 4 nightscythes take a couple of 5 man warriors for back field objectives (( need 2 nightscythes minimum))

Fast attack

As many wraiths as you can fit (make sure you max on units so he has more targets) ((the bomb can target multiple but it still may help, especially vs the riptide))

Heavy

3 annhilation barges


Tactics

overall goal --- bury him in tesla shots, wraiths are a distraction but if they get in it is awesome!

Keep your wraiths back till the cythes come in the move them both up for target saturation....

Ignore the riptide

Ignore the troops unless you cant hit the bomb

focus fire the bomb with all your tesla

do NOT deploy the warriors ((they are only for late game drop off on objectives in 80% of games, SOMETIMES you drop them in rapdfire for a super turn but not usually))



havent done the points on what you can exactly fit at 1250 from the above but follow those guidelines....You want to rain mass tesla shots into the bomb

Just a question in the "Can't Infiltrate Camp",

Would you stop Kayvaan Shrike from joining an Assault Marine Squad and Infiltrating too?

Iranna.

Under the current rules? Yes. He can't actually join the squad until after they're deployed.

We've house-ruled it so that an IC Infiltrate can drag a non-IC unit, but NOT vice versa - after all, the reverse is explicitly forbidden by the Infiltrate rule. This means Farsight Bomb still can't Infiltrate unless Farsight's not attached.

The FAQ for Shrike shows the intent, but it's still not how the deployment rules work. You don't join a squad before deployment in 6th.

Space Marines FAQ wrote:Page 92 Kayvaan Shrike, See, But Remain Unseen.
Replace this entry with the following:
“See, But Remain Unseen: Shrike (and any models in a unit
chosen from Codex: Space Marines that he has joined before deployment) benefit from the Infiltrate special rule).

I think your wrong about the shadowsun/farsight infiltrate combo.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523802.page

Saltydog367 wrote:
I think your wrong about the shadowsun/farsight infiltrate combo.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523802.page

who do you think is wrong? the OP? if so you are correct....

Theorius wrote:

Saltydog367 wrote:
I think your wrong about the shadowsun/farsight infiltrate combo.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523802.page

who do you think is wrong? the OP? if so you are correct....

(Rude much?)

I am the OP and based on threads floating around it seems legit that shadowsun can take farsight with her when she infiltrates. Post your logic to defend since you feel so passionate about it not being possible. As of right now I can't just walk up to him and say "oh you can't do that because someone on DakkaDakka said it was a no no."

The infiltrate rule and deployment rules clearly state that its not possible to attach an IC without infiltrate to an infiltrating unit. Vice versa is arguable both ways and unclear, but farsight clearly cannot infiltrate with the bomb.

The bomb and shadowsun probably can, although that is uncertain, and I think the shrike special situation doesn't apply as he deploys specially instead of via direct infiltration, I think.

Saltydog367 wrote:

Theorius wrote:

Saltydog367 wrote:
I think your wrong about the shadowsun/farsight infiltrate combo.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523802.page

who do you think is wrong? the OP? if so you are correct....

(Rude much?)

I am the OP and based on threads floating around it seems legit that shadowsun can take farsight with her when she infiltrates. Post your logic to defend since you feel so passionate about it not being possible. As of right now I can't just walk up to him and say "oh you can't do that because someone on DakkaDakka said it was a no no."

i didnt see you were the op, my apologies, but you didnt clarify or quote who you said was wrong.

i personally wish it was true, but it isnt bro sorry. I use farsight and shadowsun myself and i dont infilitrate.

Theorius wrote:

Saltydog367 wrote:

Theorius wrote:

Saltydog367 wrote:
I think your wrong about the shadowsun/farsight infiltrate combo.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523802.page

who do you think is wrong? the OP? if so you are correct....

(Rude much?)

I am the OP and based on threads floating around it seems legit that shadowsun can take farsight with her when she infiltrates. Post your logic to defend since you feel so passionate about it not being possible. As of right now I can't just walk up to him and say "oh you can't do that because someone on DakkaDakka said it was a no no."

i didnt see you were the op, my apologies, but you didnt clarify or quote who you said was wrong.

i personally wish it was true, but it isnt bro sorry. I use farsight and shadowsun myself and i dont infilitrate.

Okay but you have not clearly explained your reasoning behind this. Just because you say isn't true does not justify your logic.

Others have.

Only two ways for an IC to join a unit

Deploys next to it

Joins it in reserves.


You DON'T join before deploying which is what a lot of people mix up.